Ninjago's Tiering Problem

[Lloydblitzed]

The GW never created entire realms

They were visually shown when they were talking about FSM making the other Realms

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

FSM, Overlord and Source Dragon scale to 17 Universes into Low Multi, while the Ninjas scale to 2 with the Mergequakes (let's not forget the Ninjas all re-unlocked TP right before DR in Quest of the Lost Power, which explain why they got vastly stronger). Just because the god tiers scale higher into Low Multi doesn't justify anything for the Ninjas scaling, that reasoning is pretty bad

You forget that ninja's power (even Time Twins power which is literally Time that is all of reality) do not scale to universal or multiversal levels.

 

[Minaaaa]

Yeah they did, Dragons Rising S1 E12.

Given that we know how the FSM created ninjago (Creating just the land in an already existing), he likely did a similar thing with the other realms

 

[Lloydblitzed]

You forget that ninja's power (even Time Twins power which is literally Time that is all of reality) do not scale to universal or multiversal levels.

That doesn't disprove the Mergequake feat at all, and the fact they reached TP which is a MASSIVE amp further supports the peak in power

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Given that we know how the FSM created ninjago (Creating just the land in an already existing), he likely did a similar thing with the other realms

No proof of that, nor implied

 

[Minaaaa]

No proof of that, nor implied

We dont know how he created the realms either. I never said the post i posted was canon, just that it was likely given ninjago's situation. we dont know anything about the realms nor how he created them, the feat is just unknown for now

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

the fact they reached TP which is a MASSIVE amp further supports the peak in power

Yea, they did, but in the show no Ninja or EM used TP form (in this form as you remember EMs have this boost in power) to close mergequakes which indicates that their basic powers were used.

 

[JJSliderman]

We dont know how he created the realms either. I never said the post i posted was canon, just that it was likely given ninjago's situation. we dont know anything about the realms nor how he created them, the feat is just unknown for now

The fact it specifically says he created the realms implies more than just the landmass, since the realm encompasses the land and the space beyond it.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Yea, they did, but in the show no Ninja or EM used TP form (in this form as you remember EMs have this boost in power) to close mergequakes which indicates that their basic powers were used.

Their TP kinda became part of base from what was shown in Quest of Lost Power (they didn't transform when reaching TP)

 

[Minaaaa]

The fact it specifically says he created the realms implies more than just the landmass, since the realm encompasses the land and the space beyond it.

We don't know HOW he did it. We dont know anything besides "He created other realms". Im not saying the statement is invalid, im saying we dont know enough context to the feat to properly scale it

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

Their TP kinda became part of base from what was shown in Quest of Lost Power

As I saw, their TP just unlocked their powers once again (as it did numerous times before) after Lloyd's win over Overlord. This is how I perceived it at least.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I never dodged any of your points

You did a lot of times, I addressed it each time you were doing it.

IF they use UES, then the hax applies. Does garmadon creating the canyon not scale to its ap?

He is doing it via wish-granting, aka Reality Warping. And his wish was to stop Ninjas, not anything large scale. And he did not even get tired after that, so doesn’t debunk anything.

Which two realms are they merging then

Presumably, the one they are currently in and the neighbor Realm.

• Garmadon tells the story to the group on how the ninja got rid of the mw
• Garmadon says they collided with each other and shot into space

He never once implies the events u described happened 1:1, thus youre misinterpreting him

Zane already brought up that story, there would be no point of repeating that. He says “I was there” and then describes exactly what happened. Visuals support me too.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

You forget that ninja's power (even Time Twins power which is literally Time that is all of reality) do not scale to universal or multiversal levels.

Time Twins are easily Universal Level+.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

You forget that ninja's power (even Time Twins power which is literally Time that is all of reality) do not scale to universal or multiversal levels.

Time Twins can warp space time, Clouse with Environnemental Destruction was a Multiversal level threat, Wu with the Golden Mech casually shifted the Balance and stopped the destruction of all the Realms, Golden Ultra Dragon, USM Lloyd, GOL and SDP Lloyd can all harm or defeat Overlord or scale above FSM too. There are tons of Multiversal level beings, more then just those 3

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Guys, listen. No ninja should have Low 2-C or 2-C tier for one logical reason. These tiers are freaking god tiers of the verse for FSM, Overlord and Source Dragons. And show makes it clear that none mortal being can scale to them (except USM and Source Power Lloyd ofc). That's why closing a Mergequakes should be considered simply as Space Manip sub-ability of any elemental power and nothing more.

Scaling to 17 Realms is infinitely stronger than scaling to two Realms. DR Ninjas only scale to 2-C baseline, meanwhile God Tiers are far higher into 2-C.

 

[Minaaaa]

He is doing it via wish-granting, aka Reality Warping. And his wish was to stop Ninjas, not anything large scale. And he did not even get tired after that, so doesn’t debunk anything.

If they have a UES, reality warping scale to the AP as its a supernatural power, if not they dont have a UES

Presumably, the one they are currently in and the neighbor Realm.

Which is? Have they ever said only the locations of the realms merged?

Zane already brought up that story, there would be no point of repeating that. He says “I was there” and then describes exactly what happened. Visuals support me too.

Garmadon was explaning it to everyone else. You are once again misinterpreting what hes saying. please stop bringing up his statements if youre gonna keep doing this

 

[Minaaaa]

Its only been at day and the post already has 9 pages. this verse man

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

If they have a UES, reality warping scale to the AP as its a supernatural power, if not they dont have a UES

Let me repeat myself due to you ignoring my points: “And his wish was to stop Ninjas, not anything large scale. And he did not even get tired after that, so doesn’t debunk anything.”

Which is?

What do you mean “Which is?”. Do you have to know exact names of the Realms they were in during each episode?

Have they ever said only the locations of the realms merged?

It is heavily implied FRA I mentioned.

Garmadon was explaning it to everyone else. You are once again misinterpreting what hes saying. please stop bringing up his statements if youre gonna keep doing this

Yes, he was telling everyone what happened, aka destruction of Megaweapon by Golden Weapon with the following collision. Again, even visuals show that this is the case. I keep doing this because you blatantly ignore the statement for precisely 0 reason.
My bad. There is a reason. Obsession with downgrading the verse you support.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Its only been at day and the post already has 9 pages. this verse man

You are the one who started this. And this verse was dead for the years on this wiki…

 

[Minaaaa]

Let me repeat myself due to you ignoring my points: “And his wish was to stop Ninjas, not anything large scale. And he did not even get tired after that, so doesn’t debunk anything.”

This, in fact, does not debunk anything

What do you mean “Which is?”. Do you have to know exact names of the Realms they were in during each episode?

It is heavily implied FRA I mentioned.

Then the merge itself isnt 2-C if it only merged the locations and not the realm's themselves.

Yes, he was telling everyone what happened, aka destruction of Megaweapon by Golden Weapon with the following collision. Again, even visuals show that this is the case. I keep doing this because you blatantly ignore the statement for precisely 0 reason.
My bad. There is a reason. Obsession with downgrading the verse you support.

How do you misinterpret a simple scene, in a show for children. Cmon man, the scene isnt rocket science and is very simple to explain

• Garmadon says he remembers what happened to the mega weapon and golden weapon
• He says he remembers them using the GW to destroy his MW
• He says when they collided, they shot into space

This isnt complicated at all to understand. You'd literally be saying they destroyed the MW, then formed into ANOTHER MW. I shouldnt have to explain why this doesnt make sense and saying the GW just depowered it is supported by nothing

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

, in fact, does not debunk anything

It does. The wish did only what it was supposed to do: to stop Ninjas. Not anything that debunks the creation of star in the whole another context.

Then the merge itself isnt 2-C if it only merged the locations and not the realm's themselves.

Merge storm is not, but the Merge is what caused Mergequakes which is why it is considered more of a threat than a single mergequake.

How do you misinterpret a simple scene, in a show for children. Cmon man, the scene isnt rocket science and is very simple to explain

• Garmadon says he remembers what happened to the mega weapon and golden weapon
• He says he remembers them using the GW to destroy his MW
• He says when they collided, they shot into space

He doesn’t say “I remember that you something something”, he straight up said what happened, and I don’t see why he wouldn’t do it in chronological order given the visuals which further validate my point.

This isnt complicated at all to understand. You'd literally be saying they destroyed the MW, then formed into ANOTHER MW. I shouldnt have to explain why this doesnt make sense and saying the GW just depowered it is supported by nothing

You are absolutely correct: Golden Weapons were not depewored, we clearly see them being pretty much in full power in Season 3. Megaweapon, on the other hand, indeed was destroyed as it should have saved time paradox.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

This isnt complicated at all to understand. You'd literally be saying they destroyed the MW, then formed into ANOTHER MW. I shouldnt have to explain why this doesnt make sense and saying the GW just depowered it is supported by nothing

The fact the GWs didn't get destroyed is the reason it make sense...

 

[Minaaaa]

You are absolutely correct: Golden Weapons were not depewored, we clearly see them being pretty much in full power in Season 3. Megaweapon, on the other hand, indeed was destroyed as it should have saved time paradox.

When did the mega weapon get destroyed

 

[Lloydblitzed]

When did the mega weapon get destroyed

During collision ? Lloyd never heard of the MW for a reason...

 

[Minaaaa]

During collision ? Lloyd never heard of the MW for a reason...

You'd literally be saying they destroyed the MW, then formed into ANOTHER MW.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

When did the mega weapon get destroyed

When Ninjas attacked it with the Golden Weapons powers

 

[Lloydblitzed]

When did the mega weapon get destroyed

May I remind yall that the GWs actually vanished in S16 upon their REAL destruction, which didn't happen. Same thing with the MW, it got erased upon actual destruction, the GWs however were left in a blob state with ALL ITS POWERS still effective. They did NOT suffer from real destruction

 

[Minaaaa]

Nothing says the mw got erased, else how did it become a star from the scans u posted? What made the star then?

 

[JJSliderman]

The Golden Weapons.

The Golden Weapons made the star.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Nothing says the mw got erased, else how did it become a star from the scans u posted? What made the star then?

The MW got erased since Lloyd was brought back to existance + doesn't remember the MW existance at all nor its events. The pirates still existing grants them Acausality

 

[Lloydblitzed]

The Golden Weapons.

The Golden Weapons made the star.

Exactly

 

[Minaaaa]

"The GW erased the MW"
"The MW became a star"
"The GW made the star"
Which one is it guys? youre all giving different answers

 

[JJSliderman]

I guess to explain why the Megaweapon design is what was seen going into space, the golden peaks ritual basically just fused the golden weapons into the Megaweapon, so you can say the weapons in that moment fused together (since they’re seen combining) and that made a new “Megaweapon” design. But the original Megaweapon, the one Garmadon used and needed to be destroyed, was destroyed.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

"The GW erased the MW"
"The MW became a star"
"The GW made the star"
Which one is it guys? youre all giving different answers

The MW was obv erased, some of your own scans and the show itself shows it and the GW obv made the star FRA

 

[Minaaaa]

The MW was obv erased, some of your own scans and the show itself shows it and the GW obv made the star FRA

Theres no evidence the MW was erased. You changed your argument from "The MW became a star" to "The GW made the star". Yall cant even get a consistent explanation on what happened

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Theres no evidence the MW was erased. You changed your argument from "The MW became a star" to "The GW made the star". Yall cant even get a consistent explanation on what happened

Lloyd litterally didn't even know Garmadon had a Mega Weapon, implying it was erased. Most event, except 2 of them (because the nature of Chaos), were complety cancelled out. The pirates not being erased is basic Acausality Type 1

Type 1: Time Paradox Immunity: Characters with this type of Acausality are rendered immune to changes in the past and standard temporal paradoxes, but remain just as vulnerable in the present and can be affected by normal Causality Manipulation and similar abilities.

 

[JJSliderman]

I suppose for Devil’s advocate, you could argue the Megaweapon blew up “after” it and the golden weapons created the star.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I’ll put some big input later

 

[Minaaaa]

Lloyd litterally didn't even know Garmadon had a Mega Weapon, implying it was erased. Most event, except 2 of them (because the nature of Chaos), were complety cancelled out. The pirates not being erased is basic Acausality Type 1

and this proves it was erased how? The time paradox can be fixed by removing the MW and GW from the picture by sending them into space. Nothing contradicts this and lines up with the scene from the series, just seems like you keep spouting it all for the sake of getting a higher tier.
This back in forth is just nonsense, even if we were to believe it. Guess what, still an outlier. No characters in the series besides the god tiers have any feats near to creating an entire star, making the feat an outlier.

An Outlier is an event or incident that is considered to be completely and irreconcilably inconsistent with a character, entity, group, or series' normal displayed level of power

 

[Lloydblitzed]

and this proves it was erased how? The time paradox can be fixed by removing the MW and GW from the picture by sending them into space. Nothing contradicts this and lines up with the scene from the series, just seems like you keep spouting it all for the sake of getting a higher tier.

The GWs weren't erased as seen in S3. Zane specifically states the time paradox can be fixed by removing the MW ONLY

This back in forth is just nonsense, even if we were to believe it. Guess what, still an outlier. No characters in the series besides the god tiers have any feats near to creating an entire star, making the feat an outlier.

Keep ignoring this lol. I also like how you still failed to name me sum AP feats made by the GWs excluding the Islands creation and the Star feat

2) Is it a unique or exceptional incident? If incidents of a similar level are repeated consistently over time, they are unlikely to be outliers. Usually, from the third incident onwards. If the character has very few feats, we can also likely skip this point.

1) Is it a big jump or drop in power? If a character with several city destruction feats is shown to be able to destroy a mountain, we cannot necessarily consider it as an outlier, for the reason that the jump between tiers is not extreme enough to be so, despite the jump between energy values we attribute to them. If the character has very few feats, we can likely ignore this point.