This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
And for the GWs life hax to even be counted in AP, you'd have to prove inverse that the ability/hax aka life haxs have this value to joules and those joules also corrilate with how hard you hit something
Zane: I was thinking about that. It could be possible to erase the events that have transpired so far by destroying the Mega Weapon that brought us here in the first place.
Kai: You mean if we destroy that weapon, everything goes back to normal?
Zane: Uh, theoretically.
Cole: But nothing can destroy the Mega Weapon. Only a weapon of equal power has any chance of stopping it.
Jay: Haha, like maybe the weapons forged to create it in the first place? (He reveals to them he brought the Golden Weapons.)
Nope, Im proving that your "the star feat is the highest feat of the GWs" is wrong
There is no fusion at all either, LOL
Outliers don't apply to characters/weapons with LITTLE FEATS
Zane: I was thinking about that. It could be possible to erase the events that have transpired so far by destroying the Mega Weapon that brought us here in the first place.
Kai: You mean if we destroy that weapon, everything goes back to normal?
Zane: Uh, theoretically.
Cole: But nothing can destroy the Mega Weapon. Only a weapon of equal power has any chance of stopping it.
Jay: Haha, like maybe the weapons forged to create it in the first place? (He reveals to them he brought the Golden Weapons.)
Using the golden weapons individually as feats for their combination doesn’t work, it’s very clearly established that all 4 weapons together are far above even 2-3 weapons together, you should try and list feats for the combination (of which the only 2 direct feats are the canyon creation and star creation)
Using the golden weapons individually as feats for their combination doesn’t work, it’s very clearly established that all 4 weapons together are far above even 2-3 weapons together, you should try and list feats for the combination (of which the only 2 direct feats are the canyon creation and star creation)
Because the GWs togheter are stronger then the GWs individually, that's like downgrading a stronger form of something because that something has weaker feats in his weaker form...
Because the GWs togheter are stronger then the GWs individually, that's like downgrading a stronger form of something because that something has weaker feats in his weaker form...
You have shown feat who scale to weapons individually, we asked you for feats that scale to all weapons togheter, more specifically, feats made by ALL THE WEAPONS ALTOGHETER
You have shown feat who scale to weapons individually, we asked you for feats that scale to all weapons togheter, more specifically, feats made by ALL THE WEAPONS ALTOGHETER
Again, it’s like saying that USM beating Overlord is an outlier, and we should use his base form which has a lot of wall level feats, so downgrade USM to Wall Level
Also most of GWs weapons feats you listed is hax. You either pretend that hax you listed has ANYTHING to do with AP, or you genuinely believe in that. Either way, stop. They are not related at all.
Again, it’s like saying that USM beating Overlord is an outlier, and we should use his base form which has a lot of wall level feats, so downgrade USM to Wall Level
Also most of GWs weapons feats you listed is hax. You either pretend that hax you listed has ANYTHING to do with AP, or you genuinely believe in that. Either way, stop. They are not related at all.
If hax =/= ap, then the GW have no feats. All of its feats are hax. Also, it debunked the mergequakes, since it was done through elemental powers, which are hax. If yall say that Ninjago has UES, then hax = ap and therefore they can be used.
If hax =/= ap, then the GW have no feats. All of its feats are hax. Also, it debunked the mergequakes, since it was done through elemental powers, which are hax. If yall say that Ninjago has UES, then hax = ap and therefore they can be used.
the mergequake feat is quantifiable, the Life hax feats and portal creation are not, and feats done by weaker versions of GWs, (such as them individually) cannot be used to prove Outliers
9. Association fallacy
This is when someone claims that since A has certain qualities, and B is in some way associated with A, then B has those qualities as well, without actual proof of this.
Example: "Many Naruto ninjas use genjutsu. Therefore Gai knows genjutsu as well."
While this could be possible, there is no confirmation, and merely because other ninjas know it doesn't mean he does.
This “feat” has been used to make the verse 4-C, which might look legit upon first looking, but when examined thoroughly, the feat in question is invalid and I'll explain why.
It wasn’t the 4 weapons causing it
The reasoning used that it was the ninja scale to star is because of the Mega Weapon creating a star and the 4 Golden Weapons being equal to it in power, but this is wrong for the reasons I'll list now. Firstly, there are multiple statements that the Mega Weapon and the Golden weapons combined into one.
With all of these statements, it's consistent that the MW and GW combined to make the star, thus making the feat invalid to scale to the four. Before I get onto my next main point, there are some side arguments I want to address.
1 - Garmadon's words here are not talking about the fact that both TGW and MW have merged. He said collision, which means that TGW collided with MW and this led to the destruction of MW and that TGW turn into the current MW, as when Kai ask Zane, “You mean if we destroy that weapon, everything goes back to normal” Zane said, “theoretically”.
So if they merged, Lloyd would be dead, and the time paradox wouldn't be fixed
2 - Tommy in this post contradicts his previous post, as he himself said that MW was destroyed
This feat occurs in the newest series, Dragons Rising, when the ninja’s elemental powers can close them, Thus scaling them to Low 2-C (Uni+). But, this feat makes completely zero sense even when the series is not taken into account. Firstly, let’s examine the statements used. These statements here and here have stated the mergequakes to be able to destroy the world, while this is correct, the wording used doesn’t scale to anyone. They always mention mergequakes (Notice the use of an S, showing plurality) will destroy the world, not a SINGULAR MERGEQUAKE, which is what the ninja close. With this, the feat should already be invalid but there is more to make the feat totally invalid. Secondly, we have Zane’s statement in Season 1 Episode 11, Temple of the Dragon Cores, of Dragons Rising. A singular mergequake on it’s own does not destroy the universe, but a culmination of hundreds if not thousands happening at the same time does. Thirdly, The ninja still wouldn’t scale to it as a single mergequake doesn’t fit the criteria for Tier 2, Characters or objects that are capable of significantly affecting,[1] creating, and/or destroying an area of space qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space. Common fictional examples of spaces representing such sizes are space-time continuums (the entire past, present and future of 3-dimensional space) of a universal scale., a single mergequake has never been shown affecting the entire universe, or even a significant portion of the universe.
Are you sure you understand Mergequake's argument? I neutral with you that it could be less than Low 2-C. But she still has High 3-A, so Mergequake argued that normal Mergequake can affect the Realms themselves, when Lloyd says about Mergequakes, he means that one Mergequake can affect the world, even Nya was asked about Mergequake and she didn't say about All Mergequakes. So that Lloyd he means that one Mergequake can affect the world, which is stated to be that world have infinite size and are of the Space-Time continuum, and even Lloyd supports this context in saying that Mergequake can destroy the world (what is meant is Mergequake because it was literally he closing a one Mergequake, so the meaning was one Mergequake) and we even have 2 contexts that support this and we also have proof that Mergequake can affect/destroy the world, so this would get Mergequake up to at least High 3-A, possibly Low 2-C
So I neutral with it's below Low 2-C
Garmadon at his peak is currently rated 2-C, for being able to battle back the Oni Army, who can destroy the realms. The problem with this is The Oni aren’t anywhere near 2-C. The Oni don’t destroy the realms in the sense of destroying the space-time of the realm, They are slowly invading the realms with their cloud of destruction, destroying the life there so they can rule over it. It’s shown in the series that their destruction isn’t physical in nature, as in their cloud, people in ninjago weren’t destroyed, nor buildings or vehicles. Though in the previous garmadon downgrade thread, there was a statement posted from the Garmadon comics that the oni would turn it into a land of ash through unknown means but is likely their destruction cloud. This would be vastly below 2-C and the 2-C rating would have to go.
It has been literally mentioned that Oni and Garmadon can destroy the fabric between Multiverse and Garmadon stated Oni that they will destroy everything, including Realms, and they do not want to destroying the life there so they can rule over it, they want to destroy Realms and Ninjago Realm, and it is natural he to destroy life, not kill humans or creatures, he going to drown the realms in a cloud of destruction and then destroy it
https://media.**********.net/attachments/949745569050542091/1235580222078844989/image-69.png?ex=6634e340&is=663391c0&hm=3f1907411c30be01b2cfb9ede4ed492cb45da75153e6cf7c34aa378e949b74ce&
https://media.**********.net/attachments/949745569050542091/1235581150571790346/Screenshot_20240502_161807.jpg?ex=6634e41e&is=6633929e&hm=0f0acc3bcea6e8f951aa3c559efadc4afc45774d52566b5d7441ec8593159d55&
https://media.**********.net/attachments/949745569050542091/1235581159895732316/Screenshot_20240502_161740.jpg?ex=6634e420&is=663392a0&hm=4752280ce967a79e53cb89cc63dc401cd5eded29cba11f613b409bfca4724b78&
the mergequake feat is quantifiable, the Life hax feats and portal creation are not, and feats done by weaker versions of GWs, (such as them individually) cannot be used to prove Outliers
If as yall say, Hax =/= AP, then it doesnt scale to anyones ap. This is in no way an association fallacy. If the GW have lower feat and the MW have lower feat than star, then its an outlier. What are you not understanding?
Universal Energy System: Universal Energy Systems (alternatively called a Universal Power System or a Connective Energy System) are systems in which a feat, whether it is one of physical statistics (Striking Strength or Durability) or of supernatural powers (e.g. energy beams), would also scale to all other statistics. That means if such a character for instance demonstrates a Building level fireball spell, they would be assumed to have at least Building level Striking Strength, Attack Potency and Durability. If they have other spells, like for example water blades, they would be assumed to be able to output similar attack power with those spells.
Why is this going back to debunk? All this can easily rebunk
1 - Garmadon's words here are not talking about the fact that both TGW and MW have merged. He said collision, which means that TGW collided with MW and this led to the destruction of MW and that TGW turn into the current MW, as when Kai ask Zane, “You mean if we destroy that weapon, everything goes back to normal” Zane said, “theoretically”.
So if they merged, Lloyd would be dead, and the time paradox wouldn't be fixed
2 - Tommy in this post contradicts his previous post, as he himself said that MW was destroyed
Are we still using Garmadon's statment, which you have to blately misinterpret to come to this point. If the GW as yall say erased the MW, then they would cancel each other out and erased both of them since they have equal power.
If the GW collided with the MW destroyed the MW, then what made the star? this is a contradiction in your statement. First you guys say "The MW desfused from the GW to create a star", then its "The GW destroyed the MW then created a star". None of these are coherent and contradict each other and the scans from Tommy you guys sent.
Are you sure you understand Mergequake's argument? I neutral with you that it could be less than Low 2-C. But she still has High 3-A, so Mergequake argued that normal Mergequake can affect the Realms themselves, when Lloyd says about Mergequakes, he means that one Mergequake can affect the world, even Nya was asked about Mergequake and she didn't say about All Mergequakes. So that Lloyd he means that one Mergequake can affect the world, which is stated to be that world have infinite size and are of the Space-Time continuum, and even Lloyd supports this context in saying that Mergequake can destroy the world (what is meant is Mergequake because it was literally he closing a one Mergequake, so the meaning was one Mergequake) and we even have 2 contexts that support this and we also have proof that Mergequake can affect/destroy the world, so this would get Mergequake up to at least High 3-A, possibly Low 2-C
So I neutral with it's below Low 2-C
They never say a single mergequake will destroy the world, its always MERGEQUAKES plural meaning multiple of them. a single mergequakes has to be affecting the ENTIRE realm, not just a small part of it. They would only be High 3-A if they fufill these,
Characters or objects that demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, such as creating or destroying infinite mass, or those who can affect an infinite 3-D space.
The mergequakes would HAVE to affect the entire space.
It has been literally mentioned that Oni and Garmadon can destroy the fabric between Multiverse and Garmadon stated Oni that they will destroy everything, including Realms, and they do not want to destroying the life there so they can rule over it, they want to destroy Realms and Ninjago Realm, and it is natural he to destroy life, not kill humans or creatures, he going to drown the realms in a cloud of destruction and then destroy it
The Oni arent destroying the fabric between realms, this is just flowery language. Harumi isnt being literal. Shes just opening a portal to the departed realm.
We know they arent destroying the entire space time of the realm, nor even the space. We see from Wu that they are slowly invading the realms and covering the land in their cloud. This doesnt have anything to do with AP.
If as yall say, Hax =/= AP, then it doesnt scale to anyones ap. This is in no way an association fallacy. If the GW have lower feat and the MW have lower feat than star, then its an outlier. What are you not understanding?
No, UES scales physical statistics to energy beams and vice versa, not “resurrection to Average Human”. I am suspicious that you lack common sense or do not understand the terms you are using.
Universal Energy System: Universal Energy Systems (alternatively called a Universal Power System or a Connective Energy System) are systems in which a feat, whether it is one of physical statistics (Striking Strength or Durability) or of supernatural powers (e.g. energy beams), would also scale to all other statistics…
Did you purposefully ignore the example “e. g. energy beams”? Really? Ask any staff if you don’t trust me, de-aging and resurrection are inapplicable for Attack Potency.
means if such a character for instance demonstrates a Building level fireball spell, they would be assumed to have at least Building level Striking Strength, Attack Potency and Durability. If they have other spells, like for example water blades, they would be assumed to be able to output similar attack power with those spells.
Do you really think there is such a thing as “Wall Level Resurrection” or “City Block de-aging”…? Minaaa, you keep surprising with your obsession to downgrade the verse you “support”.
If as yall say, Hax =/= AP, then it doesnt scale to anyones ap. This is in no way an association fallacy. If the GW have lower feat and the MW have lower feat than star, then its an outlier. What are you not understanding?
Universal Energy System: Universal Energy Systems (alternatively called a Universal Power System or a Connective Energy System) are systems in which a feat, whether it is one of physical statistics (Striking Strength or Durability) or of supernatural powers (e.g. energy beams), would also scale to all other statistics. That means if such a character for instance demonstrates a Building level fireball spell, they would be assumed to have at least Building level Striking Strength, Attack Potency and Durability. If they have other spells, like for example water blades, they would be assumed to be able to output similar attack power with those spells.
Yet you have yet to prove how Life hax and portal creation is quantifiable
Btw, your entire debunk is based on individual GWs feat, which litterally doesn't scale as high as the GWs all togheter, this debunk attempt actually sound pathetic
No, UES scales physical statistics to energy beams and vice versa, not “resurrection to Average Human”. I am suspicious that you lack common sense or do not understand the terms you are using.
Never said it does, yall are taking the lowest feats and saying "well they dont scale because of those". What about the feats of the GW i posted? they are apart of the MW, the MW would scale to them by virute of having the GW apart of it.
Did you purposefully ignore the example “e. g. energy beams”? Really? Ask any staff if you don’t trust me, de-aging and resurrection are inapplicable for Attack Potency.
Again, never said it did. Freezing a room, cracking the ground, creating a crater, and helping create ARE. all of which are vastly lower than creating a star
Do you really think there is such a thing as “Wall Level Resurrection” or “City Block de-aging”…? Minaaa, you keep surprising with your obsession to downgrade the verse you “support”.
Never said it does, yall are taking the lowest feats and saying "well they dont scale because of those". What about the feats of the GW i posted? they are apart of the MW, the MW would scale to them by virute of having the GW apart of it.
Because meanwhile Megaweapon would scale “at least” to Golden Weapon individual feats, it itself would still lack AP feats on its own, which is why Star Level feat is an outlier. If it was only the Sword of Fire who made a star, then you could argue that, but it was THEM ALTOGETHER. Basically an example with USM and Base Lloyd.
Also you: scale Life hax and Portal Creation to AP, thinks the scythe of quake AP = the MW AP and has the audacity to make a Outlier CRT comparing the power of GWs togheter to a single GW
Because meanwhile Megaweapon would scale “at least” to Golden Weapon individual feats, it itself would still lack AP feats on its own, which is why Star Level feat is an outlier. If it was only the Sword of Fire who made a star, then you could argue that, but it was THEM ALTOGETHER. Basically an example with USM and Base Lloyd.
