Ninjago's Tiering 2

[Lloydblitzed]

The first link doesnt show this, the second link is unrelated and the oni arent actually destroying anything

First link's first image litterally says the Oni will destroy the entire Realm if his dad doesn't help him stop them. The second scan implies that Garmadon was talking about the entire Realm getting destroyed, since he states he doesn't want be destroyed along with the Ninjas, which he wouldn't be worrying about if only the lands were destroyed, especially taking in account WoG tells his vaporizing a Realm --> bye bye all inhabitant

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

1. Youd have to prove their even destroying it after, which nothing supports this and destroying literally anything as the shows proves this isnt even the case

Realms were proved to be separate universes long time ago. Onis beings able to destroy them is already 2-C. Stop being ifnorant.

1. Again, bill is different. His justification is on his profile

I explained why their cases are similar. His justifications are ALL statements meanwhile he himself did not even show much of a destruction.

Again, back to the looping arguments. None of these imply full destruction of space-time, stop isolating these statements and actually apply them to the series. You know who else from ninjago can destroy creation? THE GREAT DEVOURER, Should she be tier 2 now?

For her it is a massive outlier with the fact that nothing in the show or other sources support this. With Onis, we’ve got outside sources, the show implications, etc. False equivalence.

Hell, The Preeminent can "curse all the realms", should she be 2-C?

Her one seems valid.

Because there literally no indication they can? besides "Destroy the realms", which you dont need to even be tier 2 to do

True, destruction of several universes should be 11-C!!!

The first link doesnt show this, the second link is unrelated and the oni arent actually destroying anything

Yes, just like Bill wasn’t actually destroying anything, and was only going to do so after uncertain amount of time via statements. Your logic is simply stupid: character didn’t have time to achieve his goals because he was defeated by main heroes, so let’s ignore the statements!!

 

[Minaaaa]

Realms were proved to be separate universes long time ago. Onis beings able to destroy them is already 2-C. Stop being ifnorant.

Them being seperate universes has nothing to do with anything. For the oni to be 2-C, theyd have to

• Affect space-time on a universal scale (they dont)
• Physically destroy (they dont)
• Do it all at once (they dont)

I explained why their cases are similar. His justifications are ALL statements meanwhile he himself did not even show much of a destruction.

They arent similar, its called CONTEXT. Theyre different for that simple reason, bill's feats have context behind them, the oni do not. Wu saying they're covering the lands in darkness debunk literally anything related to tier 2

For her it is a massive outlier with the fact that nothing in the show or other sources support this. With Onis, we’ve got outside sources, the show implications, etc. False equivalence.

So the oni destroying creation based off of outside statements is fine, but the great devourer using the exact same statement is an outlier?

True, destruction of several universes should be 11-C!!!

Stated above. Has to be all at once, you arent gonna get 2-C from going to universes one by one and destroying them

Yes, just like Bill wasn’t actually destroying anything, and was only going to do so after uncertain amount of time via statements. Your logic is simply stupid: character didn’t have time to achieve his goals because he was defeated by main heroes, so let’s ignore the statements!!

See above. its called CONTEXT. This is a childrens lego show, it isnt that hard to put into context what they mean by destroy the realms, especially when we are GIVEN the context by Wu.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

its what i was planning on. Im waiting for this thread to finish

There's no point now that FSM got recently confirmed to be Tier 2 by Doc

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Them being seperate universes has nothing to do with anything. For the oni to be 2-C, theyd have to

• Affect space-time on a universal scale (they dont)
• Physically destroy (they dont)
• Do it all at once (they dont)

If they can destroy Realms which ARE universes, how are your points even relevant? And universe definition is “The Universe is all of space and time and their contents, including planets, stars, galaxies, all forms of matter and energy!
The statements we provided above prove this quite easily, stop ignoring.

They arent similar, its called CONTEXT. Theyre different for that simple reason, bill's feats have context behind them, the oni do not.

Excuse me? Onis do have context. They invaded the Realms and, if not stopped by Ninjas, would ultimately destroy all of them.

Wu saying they're covering the lands in darkness debunk literally anything related to tier 2

It can be interpreted in two ways:
a) Invasion part of Onis plan;
b) Metaphorical use as covering something in darkness can mean destroying it.

So the oni destroying creation based off of outside statements is fine, but the great devourer using the exact same statement is an outlier?

Onis are CONSISTENT in such statements with no logical contradictions and them being in the top of the verse.

Stated above. Has to be all at once, you arent gonna get 2-C from going to universes one by one and destroying them

Show me where is it stated that it is going to be one by one. It’s literally your burden of proof. Also it’s funny how it went from “outlier” to “we don’t know how they did it” to “not one by one”, and literally every single one of them can be refuted in a single sentence.

See above. its called CONTEXT. This is a childrens lego show, it isnt that hard to put into context what they mean by destroy the realms, especially when we are GIVEN the context by Wu.

The context is literally on our side, not yours. Their destruction is supposed to oppose Dragons Creation, they are consistently stated to destroy all of the Realms and similar to that, and you just strawman the hell out of Wu statement.

 

[Minaaaa]

We know its not actual destruction for a few reasons

For one, Its not all at once. Shown by these things below


These here should already be evident the feat isnt tier 2 but rather a simple invasion but theres more
Next, we're given these statements from Wu

Wu: She said... a darkness swept over the Realm of Oni and Dragon. She tried to resist it, but it grew and grew, consuming all in its path. Those who were touched by it were frozen where they stood like statues.

Wu: It is an Oni. My father called them the Bringers of Doom. He feared that they would one day spread out from their realm and cover all the lands of creation in darkness.

These are also blatant statements they arent destroying entire universes, but rather covering the land of them in darkness, even more so by these statements

Furthermore, we have this statement

The Omega: So, this is the Realm of the First Spinjitzu Master? Soon, the power will be gone. Forever.

Lloyd: Power? (Turns to Garmadon.) Father, what is he talking about?

Garmadon: What do you think? Power of your grandfather, the power of Creation.

The Omega: (Holds his fist at them.) Soon, there will be nothing, but Destruction. (Points his staff at Garmadon.) You. You are Oni. Why have you not taken this realm?

With this, Its as simple as putting it into the lore of the series. What did the FSM create? The Ninjago land. This too makes sense as the only thing that stopped the oni was the Golden Power.

 

[Minaaaa]

There's no point now that FSM got recently confirmed to be Tier 2 by Doc

again, for another thread

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

We know its not actual destruction for a few reasons

For one, Its not all at once. Shown by these things below

These statements literally contradict the show as it is saying “they ARE destroying the Realms” but we know that at the time of the series, they only covered most of the Realms in the Cloud. Destruction should have obviously be later, so the statements DIRECTLY contradicting the show are invalid.

These here should already be evident the feat isnt tier 2 but rather a simple invasion but theres more
Next, we're given these statements from Wu

Yes, simple invasion in the show, you are correct. But given the statements what they were GOING to do, they would have destroyed all the Realm later. You simply can’t deny that.

These are also blatant statements they arent destroying entire universes, but rather covering the land of them in darkness, even more so by these statements.

I never denied they were covering everything in the cloud, that’s for sure.

Furthermore, we have this statement

With this, Its as simple as putting it into the lore of the series. What did the FSM create? The Ninjago land. This too makes sense as the only thing that stopped the oni was the Golden Power.

Wait, just land? Really, just land?? Damn, I didn’t know. I guess both the show and current head of the verse are incorrect, because we have Minaaaa herself saying that it was just land. Sad times.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

We know its not actual destruction for a few reasons

For one, Its not all at once. Shown by these things below



These here should already be evident the feat isnt tier 2 but rather a simple invasion but theres more

Doesn't contradict any previous statements of them being able to destroy the Realms. Garmadon's concerns for his own survival also proves that this isn't just an invasion

Next, we're given these statements from Wu


These are also blatant statements they arent destroying entire universes, but rather covering the land of them in darkness, even more so by these statements

Doesn't dimiss the fact they could've destroyed the Realm after covering the whole thing in Darkness

Furthermore, we have this statement

With this, Its as simple as putting it into the lore of the series. What did the FSM create? The Ninjago land. This too makes sense as the only thing that stopped the oni was the Golden Power.

FSM created other Realms as well, with Doc saying he didn't only create Islands, but ENTIRE REALMS and that how Ninjago was made doesn't have to be a pattern for the other Realms, meaning his power being present elsewhere as well. This alone contradicts your entire argument

 

[Minaaaa]

These statements literally contradict the show as it is saying “they ARE destroying the Realms” but we know that at the time of the series, they only covered most of the Realms in the Cloud. Destruction should have obviously be later, so the statements DIRECTLY contradicting the show are invalid.
Yes, simple invasion in the show, you are correct. But given the statements what they were GOING to do, they would have destroyed all the Realm later. You simply can’t deny that.

Or they arent destroying them at all, just invading them. The show, episode descriptions, guides, and lego channel all say they arent actually physically destroying anything, just a simple invasion. Youre grasping at straws

Wait, just land? Really, just land?? Damn, I didn’t know. I guess both the show and current head of the verse are incorrect, because we have Minaaaa herself saying that it was just land. Sad times.

Dude, they are clearly referring to ninjago in march of the oni.

Doesn't contradict any previous statements of them being able to destroy the Realms. Garmadon's concerns for his own survival also proves that this isn't just an invasion

You do know they can just... kill garmadon right? especially since he was in a weakened state.

Doesn't dimiss the fact they could've destroyed the Realm after covering the whole thing in Darkness

Literally, why would they do this? and you need evidence of this

FSM created other Realms as well, with Doc saying he didn't only create Islands, but ENTIRE REALMS and that how Ninjago was made doesn't have to be a pattern for the other Realms, meaning his power being present elsewhere as well. This alone contradicts your entire argument

Again, tier 2 is for a different thread and this doesnt contradict anything.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Or they arent destroying them at all, just invading them.

That’s the truth, they are invading the Realms in the show, you got it correct. Now do a simple 2+2 and guess what will happen after that. Please with no bias.

The show, episode descriptions, guides, and lego channel all say they arent actually physically destroying anything, just a simple invasion.

Nothing ever says “Onis do not physically destroy anything”, they just say that they are invading the Realms and that contradicts none of our arguments. We completely agree with the fact that they were invading the Realms and covering it in the Cloud of Destruction. 100%. But what will happen after that is the destruction of all those Realms.
It’s like saying, again, Bill is shown to spread weirdness and stated multiple times to do so, so let’s ignore all the statements that say he will destroy all of the existence in the future.

Youre grasping at straws

This sentence has so much irony behind it.

Dude, they are clearly referring to ninjago in march of the oni.

“Dude”, they were going to destroy FSM’s power (and all Realms as stated in other sources) and leave nothing behind. Do a simple 2+2, once again.

You do know they can just... kill garmadon right? especially since he was in a weakened state.

His fear was about leaving nothing behind and the fact that the Realm of his father will not survive. He cared about the Realm and himself, not the others.

Literally, why would they do this?

That’s THEIR THING? BEING OPPOSITE OF THE DRAGONS’ CREATION????

and you need evidence of this

Did… did you… did you literally… you know what, at this point I won’t even care, you just want us to show all of the scans over again while we did that multiple times already.

Again, tier 2 is for a different thread and this doesnt contradict anything.

That’s just half of the reason why we brought this up, the other half is what I mentioned above.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Or they arent destroying them at all, just invading them. The show, episode descriptions, guides, and lego channel all say they arent actually physically destroying anything, just a simple invasion. Youre grasping at straws


Dude, they are clearly referring to ninjago in march of the oni.


You do know they can just... kill garmadon right? especially since he was in a weakened state.

Omega had no intention of killing him at first lol, that's why he asked him why he was allaying himself with the Ninjas

Literally, why would they do this? and you need evidence of this

This is what the scans imply, here we have Omega saying he would egulf everything in darkness AND wipe out Creation

Again, tier 2 is for a different thread and this doesnt contradict anything.

This directly concerns and contradict ur current argument

 

[Minaaaa]

That’s the truth, they are invading the Realms in the show, you got it correct. Now do a simple 2+2 and guess what will happen after that. Please with no bias.

Nothing will happen simple. is it so hard to believe that literally nothing will happen? Do you have to try and stretch every statement to the highest possible outcome?

Nothing ever says “Onis do not physically destroy anything”, they just say that they are invading the Realms and that contradicts none of our arguments. We completely agree with the fact that they were invading the Realms and covering it in the Cloud of Destruction. 100%. But what will happen after that is the destruction of all those Realms.
It’s like saying, again, Bill is shown to spread weirdness and stated multiple times to do so, so let’s ignore all the statements that say he will destroy all of the existence in the future.

Again, you need to evidence that theyre going to destroy it after they take over. Theres literally nothing to support that they will do this or even want to do this. It literally makes zero sense for the oni to fully destroy an entire realm after theyve already took over as they have literally no reason to. Also, with this scan posted earlier, it makes even less sense, why would they take over the realms, just to destroy them and die with it? Bill's case is literally different, please stop using example from verses you dont know with profiles you dont read.

“Dude”, they were going to destroy FSM’s power (and all Realms as stated in other sources) and leave nothing behind. Do a simple 2+2, once again.

Dude, theyre talking about the FSM's power in ninjago. the omega literally says So this is the realm of the First Spinjitzu Master. Soon the power will be gone forever.

His fear was about leaving nothing behind and the fact that the Realm of his father will not survive. He cared about the Realm and himself, not the others.

Garmadon's entire goal was to rule over ninjago. He cant do that if the oni are there since theyre vastly more powerful than him, he literally says this

The Omega: You are an Oni. (Garmadon gets up.) Yet, you fight to preserve this realm. (He leans a bit back, seemingly disgusted.) Why?

Garmadon: (Sighs.) If anyone is going to destroy Ninjago, it'll be me, not some Oni usurper with a walking stick. (Smacks the staff away.)

That’s THEIR THING? BEING OPPOSITE OF THE DRAGONS’ CREATION????

See first point

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Again, you need to evidence that theyre going to destroy it after they take over. Theres literally nothing to support that they will do this or even want to do this

Ignoring all of our arguments is not gonna help

. It literally makes zero sense for the oni to fully destroy an entire realm after theyve already took over as they have literally no reason to. Also, with this scan posted earlier, it makes even less sense, why would they take over the realms, just to destroy them and die with it?

The Onis goal is to destroy everything, the scan doesn't mean anything to the Onis, but to Garmadon, it does. That's not really relevant to their AP tiering

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Nothing will happen simple.

All of the official statements provided do not matter, because Minaaaa herself said nothing will happen, as always.

is it so hard to believe that literally nothing will happen?

Are you trying to appeal to emotion?

Do you have to try and stretch every statement to the highest possible outcome?

Highest possible outcome? Straight up “they will destroy all Realms”, “nothing will be left behind” are as straight up as possible. Is assuming that a guy has 4 arms because he is supposed to and stated considered taking the highest possible outcome?

Again, you need to evidence that theyre going to destroy it after they take over.

Was earlier in the thread which you ignored under “bUt hOw wiLl thEy dO iT?”

Theres literally nothing to support that they will do this or even want to do this. It literally makes zero sense for the oni to fully destroy an entire realm after theyve already took over as they have literally no reason to.

“No reason to”, “zero sense” remind me the name of their power? Remind me what does it oppose to??

Also, with this scan posted earlier, it makes even less sense, why would they take over the realms, just to destroy them and die with it?

You know that there are places beyond the Realms?

Bill's case is literally different, please stop using example from verses you dont know with profiles you dont read.

DON’T KNOW? DON’T KNOW??? I have rewatched the series and reread all its books multiple times, reread AmA countless times. Literally look at my pfp. Accusing me of not knowing Bill and Gravity Falls is your worst take ever, even surpassing “everybody should be continent level” one.
And his case is not different from this when we are talking about on-screen feats vs statements.

Dude, theyre talking about the FSM's power in ninjago.

Headcanon.

the omega literally says So this is the realm of the First Spinjitzu Master. Soon the power will be gone forever.

Where does it say “power in Ninjago”?

Garmadon's entire goal was to rule over ninjago. He cant do that if the oni are there since theyre vastly more powerful than him, he literally says this

He fears them from leaving nothing and Realm’s survival. He literally even says “If anybody will destroy Ninjago, it will be me, not some Oni with a walking stick”.

See first point

Same

 

[Minaaaa]

Can you not comprehend they arent being literal in the realm destruction statement? We see what the oni are doing, we have statements on what they are doing, given this, we can say they dont mean actual, physical destruction. Saying theyre destroying entire universes is literal wank. This is almost as bad as Dragon Ball fans claming jiren has immeasurable speed cuz he transcended time.

What we know about the oni

• They are invading the realms one by one, filling them up with their destruction cloud
• They are only covering the lands of the realms as stated by Wu. A statement the FIRST SPINJITZU MASTER told him about.
• Nothing is actually destroyed. In their cloud, we see buildings and people still alive. This strongly indicates no actualy destruction is taking place, rather the cessation of life. This is further backed up is at the end of the season as a previous realm they conquered, the Realm of Oni and Dragon, isnt destroyed and is perfectly intact.

I shouldn't have to keep saying this but it keeps needing to be said. Destroying a realm/universe doesnt automatically equal tier 2 or even the destruction of space-time. The most important thing when determining is the CONTEXT surrounding the feats and the way the feat is actually being carried out. Two characters both can destroy the universe, but one can do it via collapsing space-time and the other can do it via gradually going around the universe and destroying things. Both of these things have the statement of destroying the universe, but the CONTEXT surrounding the feat is what makes them different. For the oni, we have the statement of them destroying the realms and the context i provided above. This makes sense with what has been shown and stated. Now to believe the oni can destroy entire universes, you'd have to prove they're affecting space time and doing it on a universal scale, As this is an extraordinary claim and this requires extraordinary evidence. "Destroying everything and leaving nothing left" isnt really an answer to this, as you can do this with a regular 3-A explosion.

This post likely wont solve anything and we'll just keep going in circles so this is all im saying on the oni topic.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Can you not comprehend they arent being literal in the realm destruction statement?

The only time it is not true only where it says “one by one” because those statements imply that they do it at the time of the show, meanwhile we clearly see in the show that they are only invading.

We see what the oni are doing, we have statements on what they are doing, given this, we can say they dont mean actual, physical destruction.

Yes, at the time of the series they wouldn’t physically destroy anything. However feats that suggest that they were going to destroy everything cannot be disregarded due to that as nothing contradicts “invade -> destroy” for Onis.

Saying theyre destroying entire universes is literal wank.

All of the consistent statements and implications are now literal wank. Next time what would you say? That Kai controlling fire is a wank too?

This is almost as bad as Dragon Ball fans claming jiren has immeasurable speed cuz he transcended time.

Can I just put here “” and pretend you never wrote this part?

What we know about the oni

• They are invading the realms one by one, filling them up with their destruction cloud
• They are only covering the lands of the realms as stated by Wu. A statement the FIRST SPINJITZU MASTER told him about.
• Nothing is actually destroyed. In their cloud, we see buildings and people still alive. This strongly indicates no actualy destruction is taking place, rather the cessation of life. This is further backed up is at the end of the season as a previous realm they conquered, the Realm of Oni and Dragon, isnt destroyed and is perfectly intact.

This is again completely ignoring our words. Yes, it is true that there are multiple statements of them invading the Realms, filling it up with the Cloud of Destruction, and yes they were doing it during the show until they were stopped by Ninjas. Does this mean we should disregard statements that suggest literal destruction of all of the Realms? Of course no. All of your evidence only tells us what they are doing in the show, it never refutes the possibility of Onis destroying everything after the invasion.

I shouldn't have to keep saying this but it keeps needing to be said. Destroying a realm/universe doesnt automatically equal tier 2 or even the destruction of space-time.

Tier 2: This category features characters that at the very least are capable of creating or destroying a 4-dimensional universal spacetime continuum.

The most important thing when determining is the CONTEXT surrounding the feats and the way the feat is actually being carried out. Two characters both can destroy the universe, but one can do it via collapsing space-time and the other can do it via gradually going around the universe and destroying things. Both of these things have the statement of destroying the universe, but the CONTEXT surrounding the feat is what makes them different. For the oni, we have the statement of them destroying the realms and the context i provided above. This makes sense with what has been shown and stated. Now to believe the oni can destroy entire universes, you'd have to prove they're affecting space time and doing it on a universal scale, As this is an extraordinary claim and this requires extraordinary evidence. "Destroying everything and leaving nothing left" isnt really an answer to this, as you can do this with a regular 3-A explosion.

3-A explosions would leave time behind them. The context is, once again, on our side. All of your evidence refutes none of the implications that suggest Onis being capable of literally destroying all of the Realms.

This post likely wont solve anything and we'll just keep going in circles so this is all im saying on the oni topic.

We are going in circles only due to you being ignorant. If you actually read what we said, we would be done on the very first page of your first 11-pages CRT.

 

[Minaaaa]

Yes, at the time of the series they wouldn’t physically destroy anything. However feats that suggest that they were going to destroy everything cannot be disregarded due to that as nothing contradicts “invade -> destroy” for Onis.

Because there's no reason for them to do that? They already accomplished their goal of filling the realms with darkness.

This is again completely ignoring our words. Yes, it is true that there are multiple statements of them invading the Realms, filling it up with the Cloud of Destruction, and yes they were doing it during the show until they were stopped by Ninjas. Does this mean we should disregard statements that suggest literal destruction of all of the Realms? Of course no. All of your evidence only tells us what they are doing in the show, it never refutes the possibility of Onis destroying everything after the invasion.

If theres no evidence of them destroying the realms after, then theres no reason to accept it. and no "destroy the realms" is not evidence

Tier 2: This category features characters that at the very least are capable of creating or destroying a 4-dimensional universal spacetime continuum.

You do know that you'd have to affect space-time to be tier 2 right? Thats kind of why theres a distinction between that and tier 3. if you arent doing that, you arent tier 2. Destroying the universe is not evidence of destroying space time as i pointed out. You can do A without affecting B

Tier High 3-A (High Universe level):
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Tier_High_3-A
Characters who demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, or those who can affect an infinite 3-D area or an infinite number of finite or infinite universes when not accounting for any higher dimensions or time, or more generally any realm of comparable size. Large numbers of infinite universes, unless causally closed from one another by a separate spacetime or existence, only count for a higher level of this tier.

Tier 3-A (Universe level):
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Tier_3-A
Characters who can destroy all celestial bodies within a volume at least equivalent to the observable universe via an omnidirectional explosion, alternately create or significantly affect[1] a universe of comparable size, which does not involve the destruction and/or creation of space-time.

3-A explosions would leave time behind them. The context is, once again, on our side. All of your evidence refutes none of the implications that suggest Onis being capable of literally destroying all of the Realms.

See above

 

[Lloydblitzed]

You do know that you'd have to affect space-time to be tier 2 right? Thats kind of why theres a distinction between that and tier 3. if you arent doing that, you arent tier 2. Destroying the universe is not evidence of destroying space time as i pointed out. You can do A without affecting B

Tier High 3-A (High Universe level):
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Tier_High_3-A
Characters who demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, or those who can affect an infinite 3-D area or an infinite number of finite or infinite universes when not accounting for any higher dimensions or time, or more generally any realm of comparable size. Large numbers of infinite universes, unless causally closed from one another by a separate spacetime or existence, only count for a higher level of this tier.

Tier 3-A (Universe level):
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Tier_3-A
Characters who can destroy all celestial bodies within a volume at least equivalent to the observable universe via an omnidirectional explosion, alternately create or significantly affect[1] a universe of comparable size, which does not involve the destruction and/or creation of space-time.

The Realms are not 3D, therefore this is unapplicable

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Because there's no reason for them to do that? They already accomplished their goal of filling the realms with darkness.

They didn't achieved it yet bc the Ninjas stopped them + that wasn't their only goal

If theres no evidence of them destroying the realms after, then theres no reason to accept it. and no "destroy the realms" is not evidence

Yes, "Nothing will be left" and "Lloyd even acknowledges how father is important to this realm's creation and without him, the Oni will destroy all" most defenetly doesn't refer to the whole Realms

 

[Minaaaa]

You do know that leaving nothing left can make you 3-A right? Why are we assuming it means space-time destruction?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

You do know that leaving nothing left can make you 3-A right? Why are we assuming it means space-time destruction?

Because they are talking about the destruction of a 4D structure, that invalidates a 3-A rating. And on top of that, the affected area comprise a space-time as well as encompassing a 4D space.

• When is the destruction or creation of a universe or timeline ranked as low 2-C?

In accordance with the established Tiering System, an event that results in the destruction or creation of a universe or timeline is ranked as Low 2-C (Universe level+). This designation requires that the affected area encompasses a substantial four-dimensional space, exhibits qualitative superiority over three-dimensional spaces, or comprises the entire space-time continuum. To meet these criteria, the entire timeline must be destroyed or created, taking into account all moments in time.

 

[Minaaaa]

Youd have to destroy the 4D part of that 4D structure. Universes are treated as 4D by default, that doesnt mean that destroying the universe automatically makes you tier 2

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Youd have to destroy the 4D part of that 4D structure.

Ye, the whole structure = 4D = Space-Time continuum = A Realm
Also:

A: As the Tiering System specifies, the affected area either has to be a large four dimensional space, be qualitatively superior to three dimensional spaces or, most commonly, be an entire space-time continuum.

The latter means that all of the three-dimensional space of the universe has to be destroyed or created, at each moment in time. I.e. the entire timeline has to be destroyed.

Universes are treated as 4D by default, that doesnt mean that destroying the universe automatically makes you tier 2

Re-read both definitions:

Characters who demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, or those who can affect an infinite 3-D area or an infinite number of finite or infinite universes when not accounting for any higher dimensions or time, or more generally any realm of comparable size. Large numbers of infinite universes, unless causally closed from one another by a separate spacetime or existence, only count for a higher level of this tier. Being “infinitely” stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier.

Characters who are capable of significantly affecting, creating and/or destroying an area of space that is qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space. Common fictional examples of spaces representing such sizes are space-time continuums (the entire past, present and future of 3-dimensional space) of a universal scale. However, it can be more generally fulfilled by any 4-dimensional space that is either:

 

[Minaaaa]

Infinite 3D area would be like a created infinite space. Also read the next part, when not accounting for higher dimensions or time. This is where I think the confusion is coming in at.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Infinite 3D area would be like a created infinite space. Also read the next part, when not accounting for higher dimensions or time. This is where I think the confusion is coming in at.

Higher Dimensions aren't relevant for this verse, because the Realms are 4D for a different reasons

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Because there's no reason for them to do that? They already accomplished their goal of filling the realms with darkness.

No, their whole thing is opposing Dragons. Even Mistake says that while Dragons create, Onis destroy and an allegory is like creating a tree and destroying it.

If theres no evidence of them destroying the realms after, then theres no reason to accept it.

There is tons of evidence.

and no "destroy the realms" is not evidence

It is, you are just denying the statements at this point.

You do know that you'd have to affect space-time to be tier 2 right? Thats kind of why theres a distinction between that and tier 3. if you arent doing that, you arent tier 2. Destroying the universe is not evidence of destroying space time as i pointed out. You can do A without affecting B

Realms are space-continuums. Destroying them is the same as destroying the space-times, unless the context suggests otherwise.

See above

Same

Youd have to destroy the 4D part of that 4D structure. Universes are treated as 4D by default, that doesnt mean that destroying the universe automatically makes you tier 2

Are you saying right now that eating 2+2 apples is not the same as eating 6-2 apples and it is not the same as eating 4 apples? It’s quite literally what you are doing at this point.

Infinite 3D area would be like a created infinite space. Also read the next part, when not accounting for higher dimensions or time. This is where I think the confusion is coming in at.

Prove where does it say space only was affected.

 

[Minaaaa]

yes, realms are 4D, just like every standard universe. But destroying a universe =/= tier 2 unless space-time was affected as you can do that without affecting time

 

[Lloydblitzed]

yes, realms are 4D, just like every standard universe. But destroying a universe =/= tier 2 unless space-time was affected as you can do that without affecting time

No statements that only the spaces were affected, therefore its referring to the whole thing and stays at tier 2

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

yes, realms are 4D, just like every standard universe. But destroying a universe =/= tier 2 unless space-time was affected as you can do that without affecting time

The Universe is all of space and time and their contents, including planets, stars, galaxies, all forms of matter and energy.

In case you still don’t understand:

Character A can destroy a universe.

Universe = all of space and time and their contents, including planets, stars, galaxies, all forms of matter and energy.

Substitution:
Character A can destroy all of space and time and their contents, including planets, stars, galaxies, all forms of matter and energy.

I honestly don’t know how to make it even simpler than that.

 

[Zacisawesome101]

agree with all the changes

 

[Minaaaa]

You do know you can destroy a universe without destroying space-time right? If you know this, then we've fixed the issue with the oni
You need a statement or some proof that time is being destroyed, otherwise youre just 3-A for destroying a universe taking destroy the universe statements as literally as possible. Even destroying space-time or a 4D space wont even make you tier 2 unless its a universal sized space

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Ok so... (Time for a yapfest)....here's a map of how the Multiverse (more like the entire cosmo) looks like rn:


Link if u can't see media from VSBW: Here
So, The whole plot of the Ninjago: Dragons Rising Season 1 is about Ninjas trying to stop the Realms to occupy the same space, or, simply, merge, which the narrative supports. Now back to explanation
We know by default the Ninjago Realm as a whole was indeed affected by the Merge, but not in the same way as the other Realms. We do know however:

• The locations, such as the main planets/land from each Realms were merged
• The Grassland wasn't affected by the Merge
• The Nether-Space wasn't affected by the Merge
• The Overlord's Void is a counter part to the Grasslands anyways, so it would be logical it wouldn't be affected by the Merge
• The world expanded after the Merge and sum Celestial bodies were merged to (that part is super important for later)

However, its implied multiple times that the Monsters we saw coming out from the action of 2 Realms trying to merge in DR S1 EP 5 came from a DIFFERENT DIMENSION. This would indicate that those monster are from a Realm's Space-Time seperate from the Merged Realm, a space-time who was part of the Realms (as remember Mergequakes only affects the Realms).

We also see in the sky only 2 Moons, the one from Ninjago and another one from the Wyldness (which was shown many times btw). However, this is where we can see why the other space-times didn't fully Merge. Many of the other Realms have shown to have their own Celestial Bodies before the Merge:

• Never Realm have its own Sun
• The Wyldness have its own Sun
• Realm of Oni and Dragon have its own Sun and Moon
• The Cloud Kingdom have its own Source of Light, indicating it has its own Sun
• Another unknown Realm having its own Green Moon (top left corner)

However, after the Merge, we only see 1 Sun and 2 Moons around the skies of the Merged Realms. This imply that only some specific locations from each of the OTHER Realms were actually affected by Merge, which makes perfect sense using the dimension scans shown earlier (Fun fact: the term "Dimension" was also used to describe the Ninjago Realm, who is a space-time continuum). This is represented by the blue bubbles outside of the Merged Realm in the map

Now, we got the Space Bubbles from within the Ethereal Divide which was stated to be a Realm which would indicate its a space-time of its own (As the term "Realm" is gerenally associated with space-time continuum [like with the Ninjago Realm] ). This is what was said about Space Bubbles in DR S1 EP 17:



This basically tells us the ED in fact significally affected by the Merge, as multiple MergeQuakes (at the time) were affecting the ED and ended up sending sum people inside, and at the same time the entire Ninjago Realm was being affected by that event. This also means the Merge as affected at least 2 space-time continuums, 1 being Ninjago, and the other one being the ED

The MergeQuakes would thus occur for the parts of the other Realms who haven't merge yet, especially their space-times and Celestial Bodies, to go on and merge with Ninjago. This would lead us to a 2-C ranking for the MergeQuakes, Zane statements about the tipping point won't matter here, because this is linked to a WHOLE DIFFERENT event called the MergeQuake Storm, which involves a annahilation of the Realms. Also, that huge jump in power is explaned by the Ninjas regaining TP before DR which massively upscales their stats

I'll add more to it if I find something I've missed

Would like to precise the 2-C ranking here puts the Ninjas at 2 Universe into 2-C

 

[Minaaaa]

This would make the merge an unquantfiable event if no space-times were merged together or affected. it just has 2-C range.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

You do know you can destroy a universe without destroying space-time right? If you know this, then we've fixed the issue with the oni
You need a statement or some proof that time is being destroyed, otherwise youre just 3-A for destroying a universe taking destroy the universe statements as literally as possible.

Your burden to prove only the space will be affected, especially with the Space-Time, not the Universe, being affected

Even destroying space-time or a 4D space wont even make you tier 2 unless its a universal sized space

That's so untrue. Destroying a Space-Time is auto Tier 2

Characters or objects that are capable of significantly affecting,[1] creating, and/or destroying an area of space qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space. Common fictional examples of spaces representing such sizes are space-time continuums (the entire past, present and future of 3-dimensional space) of a universal scale. However, it can be more generally fulfilled by any 4-dimensional space that is either:

 

[Lloydblitzed]

This would make the merge an unquantfiable event if no space-times were merged together or affected. it just has 2-C range.

Ninjago and the ED's space-times were affected, this is not 2-C range

 

[Minaaaa]

Your burden to prove only the space will be affected, especially with the Space-Time, not the Universe, being affected

Its assumed only space is affected until proved otherwise. Youd have to prove it was affecting time aswell

That's so untrue. Destroying a Space-Time is auto Tier 2

"Of a universal scale"

 

[Zacisawesome101]

Its assumed only space is affected until proved otherwise. Youd have to prove it was affecting time aswell

"Of a universal scale"

Doc confirms that the Merge synched all the Realm's times up with each other, so I'd say time was affected by the Merge as well. I still agree with all the downgrades, but space-time was def affected.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Doc confirms that the Merge synched all the Realm's times up with each other, so I'd say time was affected by the Merge as well. I still agree with all the downgrades, but space-time was def affected.

Visuals shows otherwise, read the argument

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

You do know you can destroy a universe without destroying space-time right?

You cannot, the term “universe” includes both time and space by default on this wiki. I even created Q&A on this.

If you know this, then we've fixed the issue with the oni

I can’t know something that isn’t true.

You need a statement or some proof that time is being destroyed, otherwise youre just 3-A for destroying a universe taking destroy the universe statements as literally as possible. Even destroying space-time or a 4D space wont even make you tier 2 unless its a universal sized space

Again, universe is by default a space-time. You overthink everything.