Ninjago's Tiering 2

[Lloydblitzed]

I agree with the Oni thing.

From my previous message or the OP's argument?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

This doesnt change anything? I already pointed out why the oni arent destroying space times (or anything for that matter). Also, do you think the preeminent should be 2-C? I dont see any reason to bring her up

Mb, forgot to link this as well for the Oni part, which still implies he could've wiped out all of Creation, including the Realms, the spaces, the time (which is also an element of Creation btw), everything

 

[Minaaaa]

You do know all creation doesnt mean the entire universe right? You do know when they refer to creation, they talk about the ninjago land right? especially when we know EXACTLY what the oni are doing. Your scans literally says "He tried to engulf all of Ninjago in Destruction and wipe out Creation". What are The Oni doing again? Filling up the land with their cloud, guidebooks and the show. Youd have the prove they mean the entire universe and not the land of ninjago

 

[Lloydblitzed]

You do know all creation doesnt mean the entire universe right? You do know when they refer to creation, they talk about the ninjago land right?

Prove that?

especially when we know EXACTLY what the oni are doing. Your scans literally says "He tried to engulf all of Ninjago in Destruction and wipe out Creation". What are The Oni doing again? Filling up the land with their cloud, guidebooks and the show. Youd have the prove they mean the entire universe and not the land of ninjago

Top left corner says he almost succeeded in wiping out ALL OF CREATION, and on top of that, the Realms are called "Realms OF CREATION" implying they were built on Creation, not the lands, the whole thing.

 

[JJSliderman]

Not all realms are the same size, considering the pre-eminent itself is a realm and yet exists inside Ninjago city at one point.

 

[Minaaaa]

Top left corner says he almost succeeded in wiping out ALL OF CREATION, and on top of that, the Realms are called "Realms OF CREATION" implying they were built on Creation, not the lands, the whole thing.

What?? Fire, Earth, Ice, and Lightning are called the elements of creation. Do you think they can create entire universes? and they literally say the LANDS of creation in the show so this isnt even a point

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Not all realms are the same size, considering the pre-eminent itself is a realm and yet exists inside Ninjago city at one point.

All the Realms are the same size because they are parallel, the Preeminent is called the Cursed Realm simply because it encompass the Cursed Realm

 

[Lloydblitzed]

What?? Fire, Earth, Ice, and Lightning are called the elements of creation. Do you think they can create entire universes? and they literally say the LANDS of creation in the show so this isnt even a point

Wu clearly refers to the whole Universes in S11 tho

Lloyd: Wait! What's the Never-Realm?

Wu: According to legend, it is the most distant and remote of all realms. My father only spoke of it to me once... (He stops and the ninja bump into each other.) in warning. (He continues walking.) He told me of all the realms of Creation, it was the one I should never visit. He told me it was a cold and dangerous place. He forbade it.

 

[JJSliderman]

All the Realms are the same size because they are parallel, the Preeminent is called the Cursed Realm simply because it encompass the Cursed Realm

Parallel != same size, it just means the two realms don’t intersect.

 

[Minaaaa]

Wu clearly refers to the whole Universes in S11 tho

What does this have to do with his statement in March of the Oni? Wu clearly said the lands of creation there

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Parallel != same size, it just means the two realms don’t intersect.

Again, the Preeminent simply encompass the Cursed Realm. Her inside can be larger then her outside

 

[Lloydblitzed]

What does this have to do with his statement in March of the Oni? Wu clearly said the lands of creation there

It implies the "lands of Creation" refers to the entire Realms

 

[Minaaaa]

No... the lands of creations means just that, the land of the realms. You dont have to twist every statement to get the highest possible outcome

 

[Lloydblitzed]

No... the lands of creations means just that, the land of the realms.

That doesn't contradict my argument at all + prove it

 

[Lloydblitzed]

What?? Fire, Earth, Ice, and Lightning are called the elements of creation.

Ye and togheter they form something called...Creation

Also Nya obliderating Realms using her water powers

 

[Minaaaa]

That doesn't contradict my argument at all + prove it

Prove what? That the lands of creation means the lands of the realms? I think it goes without saying

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Prove what? That the lands of creation means the lands of the realms? I think it goes without saying

U missed the point of my argument. Im saying the entire Realms are built on creation and Omega almost succeeded in wiping it off. There's a reason those Realms are called "Realms of Creation"

 

[Minaaaa]

U missed the point of my argument. Im saying the entire Realms are built on creation and Omega almost succeeded in wiping it off. There's a reason those Realms are called "Realms of Creation"

Again, youd have to prove they mean the entire realm. This shouldnt even be a debate since we clearly know what the oni are doing via show and guidebooks, this is just pure wank

 

[Lloydblitzed]

This shouldnt even be a debate since we clearly know what the oni are doing via show and guidebooks, this is just pure wank

Nothing tells us engulfing everything in Darkness is their way of destroying the Realms, especially with my previous statement about the Onis vaporizing Realms. Im still waiting on Bambu to reply with whatever argument bro has been holding

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

You do know all creation doesnt mean the entire universe right? You do know when they refer to creation, they talk about the ninjago land right?

We don’t, because it’s never said once.

especially when we know EXACTLY what the oni are doing. Your scans literally says "He tried to engulf all of Ninjago in Destruction and wipe out Creation". What are The Oni doing again? Filling up the land with their cloud, guidebooks and the show.

That’s what they were doing on-screen. They were going to destroy all the Realms AFTER they defeated Ninjas. It’s like saying that all Bill was doing was spreading weirdness so he has no Low 2-C, possibly 2-A despite multiple of statements saying he would destroy all of the existence if he succeeded in breaking the Barrier.
Same case here. Both Bill and Onis were defeated before they made the statements about them true.

Youd have the prove they mean the entire universe and not the land of ninjago

There are tons of statements that they would destroy Realms, FSM’s power, and everything related to that. You are simply being ignorant right now and resetting the progress of our discussion to zero.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

At this point let's just wait on what staff are gonna say, then bring up other counter-arguments

 

[JJSliderman]

Again, the Preeminent simply encompass the Cursed Realm. Her inside can be larger then her outside

“Can be”, there is no evidence for that.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

“Can be”, there is no evidence for that.

If I remember correctly, the Preeminent was only the core/heart of the Cursed Realm.
And, like, why does it matter here to be honest, the Preeminent was brought up for a very different purpose.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

“Can be”, there is no evidence for that.

There is. The Preeminent merely emcompass the Realm

 

[Lloydblitzed]

If I remember correctly, the Preeminent was only the core/heart of the Cursed Realm.
And, like, why does it matter here to be honest, the Preeminent was brought up for a very different purpose.

All realms are parallel space-time continuums, it would be illogical to think one is smaller then the others

 

[JJSliderman]

It’s not enough to be a space time continuum to be uni+, that’s why the hyperbolic time chamber isn’t considered uni+. Being parallel is not enough either, you can have two lines where one is 5x shorter than another but still parallel if they don’t intersect.

Garmadon very clearly says “the Preeminent is the cursed realm”, which has only one takeaway. And when we actually see inside the preeminent (aka the cursed realm), it’s a bunch of narrow hallways and jail cells, nowhere near uni size.

I guess it’s just relevant because feats involving all the realms aren’t inherently 17x uni.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

It’s not enough to be a space time continuum to be uni+, that’s why the hyperbolic time chamber isn’t considered uni+. Being parallel is not enough either, you can have two lines where one is 5x shorter than another but still parallel if they don’t intersect.

Garmadon very clearly says “the Preeminent is the cursed realm”, which has only one takeaway. And when we actually see inside the preeminent (aka the cursed realm), it’s a bunch of narrow hallways and jail cells, nowhere near uni size.

• If there is shown to be a collection of multiple alternate worlds/dimensions that are either stated to be parallel and/or there are visual depictions resembling each of those worlds/dimensions to be metaphorically similar to each other (Such as bubbles or other structures that appear similar in size), and most importantly, at least one of those individual worlds/dimensions has shown enough evidence to consider them a Universe level+ sized spacetime continuum, then the conclusion is to consider all of those individual worlds/dimensions universes and that the entire collection is a multiverse.

 

[JJSliderman]

In this case, we have a direct anti-feat. The Cursed Realm is very blatantly not universe sized.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

In this case, we have a direct anti-feat. The Cursed Realm is very blatantly not universe sized.

We do not lmao, the Preeminent clearly encompass the Cursed Realm, and there are dozen of statements supporting its parallel to the other Realms.
Ninjago Realm is confirmed to be a space-time and is referred as a Universe

Also, Zane states the Preeminent is just the physical manifestation of the Cursed Realm, it does not imply the Preeminent is the size of the actual Cursed Realm (just like Overlord being the manifestation of evil, which is present everywhere, like in the entire Dark Island, yet his physcal body isn't as big as an Island)

Also, the Preeminent containing the Cursed Realm is simply Dimensional Storage

Dimensional Storage (also called Hammerspace or Magic satchel) is the ability to store as many items as one wishes in a sort of "storage area" without any regard for running out of room. Users are then able to summon the desired item(s) at their whim, making it seem as if they pulled each object out of thin air.

This ability is typically not used with any canonical explanations in fictional works.

That scan earlier all says the Preeminent is ALL ENCOMPASSING, further implying she just has some kind of Dimensional Storage

And the Cursed Realm is clearly vastly bigger inside, even streaching to the horizon, than her size outside

 

[Lloydblitzed]

In this case, we have a direct anti-feat. The Cursed Realm is very blatantly not universe sized.

There's too many evidences implying its parallel to Ninjago, also the author litterally states the Cursed Realm is inside the Preeminent

• If there is shown to be a collection of multiple alternate worlds/dimensions that are either stated to be parallel and/or there are visual depictions resembling each of those worlds/dimensions to be metaphorically similar to each other (Such as bubbles or other structures that appear similar in size), and most importantly, at least one of those individual worlds/dimensions has shown enough evidence to consider them a Universe level+ sized spacetime continuum, then the conclusion is to consider ALL of those individual worlds/dimensions universes and that the entire collection is a multiverse.

 

[JJSliderman]

Your reasoning is primarily that the cursed realm is parallel to other realms when that is not evidence of equal size. If there was an actual scan backing up uni size then sure.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Your reasoning is primarily that the cursed realm is parallel to other realms when that is not evidence of equal size. If there was an actual scan backing up uni size then sure.

If there is shown to be a collection of multiple alternate worlds/dimensions that are either stated to be parallel and/or there are visual depictions resembling each of those worlds/dimensions to be metaphorically similar to each other (Such as bubbles or other structures that appear similar in size), and most importantly, at least one of those individual worlds/dimensions has shown enough evidence to consider them a Universe level+ sized spacetime continuum, then the conclusion is to consider ALL of those individual worlds/dimensions universes and that the entire collection is a multiverse

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Your reasoning is primarily that the cursed realm is parallel to other realms when that is not evidence of equal size. If there was an actual scan backing up uni size then sure.

I've ltterally sent scans stating they are parallel....The Preeminent is litterally stated to contain a Realm which is baseline Dimensional Storage, so the "Preeminent is a big as Ninjago City" and "its just some hallways" reasoning fails. We litterally the Realm strechting the horizon and being way bigger then her outside or even some hallway....
Again, Parallel Universes means they are all Uni+ sized, the Preeminent simply contains one. The word "Realm" itself is often used to describe a place of such size

 

[Lloydblitzed]

It’s not enough to be a space time continuum to be uni+

In physics, spacetime is a mathematical model that fuses the three dimensions of space and the one dimension of time into a single four-dimensional continuum. Spacetime diagrams are useful in visualizing and understanding relativistic effects such as how different observers perceive where and when events occur.

We litterally have destroying a place containing a space-time continuum ranked at Uni+

In accordance with the established Tiering System, an event that results in the destruction or creation of a universe or timeline is ranked as Low 2-C (Universe level+). This designation requires that the affected area encompasses a substantial four-dimensional space, exhibits qualitative superiority over three-dimensional spaces, or comprises the entire space-time continuum. To meet these criteria, the entire timeline must be destroyed or created, taking into account all moments in time.

The Ninjago Realm outright fits this, rule above cites this applies to all Realms

In order for something to qualify as a proper space-time continuum in regard to some feat usually one of two following two criteria should be met:

1. It is explicitly stated to be a "Space-time continuum" or something equivalent.
2. It fulfills the standards for being a universe-sized realm (see the first section of this page) and all of its time is also involved in its feat. I.e. the structure involved in the feat is the timeline of an entire universe.

 

[Minaaaa]

That’s what they were doing on-screen. They were going to destroy all the Realms AFTER they defeated Ninjas. It’s like saying that all Bill was doing was spreading weirdness so he has no Low 2-C, possibly 2-A despite multiple of statements saying he would destroy all of the existence if he succeeded in breaking the Barrier.
Same case here. Both Bill and Onis were defeated before they made the statements about them true.

1. Youd have to prove their even destroying it after, which nothing supports this and destroying literally anything as the shows proves this isnt even the case
2. Again, bill is different. His justification is on his profile

There are tons of statements that they would destroy Realms, FSM’s power, and everything related to that. You are simply being ignorant right now and resetting the progress of our discussion to zero.

Again, back to the looping arguments. None of these imply full destruction of space-time, stop isolating these statements and actually apply them to the series. You know who else from ninjago can destroy creation? THE GREAT DEVOURER, Should she be tier 2 now? Hell, The Preeminent can "curse all the realms", should she be 2-C?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Again, back to the looping arguments. None of these imply full destruction of space-time, stop isolating these statements and actually apply them to the series. You know who else from ninjago can destroy creation? THE GREAT DEVOURER, Should she be tier 2 now? Hell, The Preeminent can "curse all the realms", should she be 2-C?

Ye except its said the Preeminent would've destroyed Ninjago by cursing it, and also shows the Preeminent cursing turning the entire world gray and even making the Sun completly vanish, not to mention she encompass a whole Uni+ structure

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Again, back to the looping arguments. None of these imply full destruction of space-time, stop isolating these statements and actually apply them to the series. You know who else from ninjago can destroy creation? THE GREAT DEVOURER, Should she be tier 2 now? Hell, The Preeminent can "curse all the realms", should she be 2-C?

Great Devourer is a different case using context, with the Onis, you genually have no argument as to why they can't wipe out Creation itself. Idk how the Great Devourer even compares to the Onis

 

[Minaaaa]

Because there literally no indication they can? besides "Destroy the realms", which you dont need to even be tier 2 to do

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Because there literally no indication they can? besides "Destroy the realms", which you dont need to even be tier 2 to do

There are several of them. Also, Garmadon was worrying he would get destroyed too, which further implies the whole thing would get destroyed as WoG says being in a Realm that gets destroyed will 100% kill you. Garmadon knew he could survive the Oni Cloud (he saw throught their plan as well), he wouldn't be worrying at all if the Oni were only destroying the lands or life

 

[Minaaaa]

The first link doesnt show this, the second link is unrelated and the oni arent actually destroying anything