Ninjago Tier 2 Downgrade

[Minaaaa]

Ninjago merged too. You are literally making a headcanon atp.

16 merged WITH ninjago, this is simple stuff man

1. Djinjago was affected by the merge, as stated by Doc and other scans. Saying doc could be talking about the grain of sand is a huge reach
2. The fact that we only see the land being affected/destroyed and that arrakore went back to it heavily implies the space wasnt destroyed and only the land was. Saying "nothing was left" supports nothing of its space being affected and literally can support my point too.
3. Tommy's statement on it simply doesnt matter. Its outdated information at the time of DR, the same way everyone used to believe the fsm created the entire ninjago realm, which got proven as he didnt in seabound.
4. Literally every other statment pre dr of realms being "destroyed" like with the oni, show only the land getting affected and not the entire realm

 

[Lloydblitzed]

16 merged WITH ninjago, this is simple stuff man

That's not what Lloyd said?

1. Djinjago was affected by the merge, as stated by Doc and other scans. Saying doc could be talking about the grain of sand is a huge reach

Show > Doc statement

1. The fact that we only see the land being affected/destroyed and that arrakore went back to it heavily implies the space wasnt destroyed and only the land was. Saying "nothing was left" supports nothing of its space being affected and literally can support my point too.

What The denial is mad

1. Tommy's statement on it simply doesnt matter. Its outdated information at the time of DR, the same way everyone used to believe the fsm created the entire ninjago realm, which got proven as he didnt in seabound.
2. Literally every other statment pre dr of realms being "destroyed" like with the oni, show only the land getting affected and not the entire realm

Association fallacy + Burden of Proof + that's untrue

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

16 merged WITH ninjago, this is simple stuff man

It is not said that with Ninjago. Just that 16 Realms merged.

1. Djinjago was affected by the merge, as stated by Doc and other scans. Saying doc could be talking about the grain of sand is a huge reach

First: death of author. Second: elaborate why is a huge reach. Third: no spoiler policy from Doc.

2. The fact that we only see the land being affected/destroyed

and that arrakore went back to it heavily implies the space wasnt destroyed and only the land was.

There is a concept called "void". When you destroy the house, you can still return to a place where it previously existed. He himself even admitted that Djinnjago was destroyed and that there was nothing left. He actually supports us, not you.

Saying "nothing was left" supports nothing of its space being affected and literally can support my point too.

Elaborate, as "nothing was left" literally means that nothing was left, including space.

3. Tommy's statement on it simply doesnt matter. Its outdated information at the time of DR, the same way everyone used to believe the fsm created the entire ninjago realm, which got proven as he didnt in seabound.

First of all, it was never said that FSM did not create Ninjago Realm. Secondly, Tommy's statements do matter as they are consistent with the show unlike your interpretation of Doc's statements.

4. Literally every other statment pre dr of realms being "destroyed" like with the oni, show only the land getting affected and not the entire realm

No? You never proved that in Oni's case it is such, I literally refuted all of your arguments and you never properly refuted mine (just said "hyperbole", "does not matter", "already addressed (you didn't)" and left it like that). Onis indeed would destroy all of the Realms given the chance, their literal thing is to oppose Creation.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Also, I would like to point out Doc said to always believe Tommy's statements over his above classic Ninjago (referring to Pre DR show)

 

[Minaaaa]

First: death of author. Second: elaborate why is a huge reach. Third: no spoiler policy from Doc.

Lol

There is a concept called "void". When you destroy the house, you can still return to a place where it previously existed. He himself even admitted that Djinnjago was destroyed and that there was nothing left. He actually supports us, not you.

funnily enough, being a void would literally support my point aswell as showing only the land was destroyed.

Elaborate, as "nothing was left" literally means that nothing was left, including space.

See above. and thats not how we interperet statements, we go based on context. The same way i can say "ill destroy this planet and leave nothing left" and it only refer to me destroying the surface. You need actual proof the entire universe was affected and not the land as ive shown

First of all, it was never said that FSM did not create Ninjago Realm. Secondly, Tommy's statements do matter as they are consistent with the show unlike your interpretation of Doc's statements.

I said that people believed he did, which because of seabound, no one believes it anymore. Secondly, his statement wouldnt matter as updated information came out and disproved it.

This all wouldn't matter anyways as everything involving the balance is a chain reaction feat anyways. At most the verse besides the source dragons should be a lower tier of 2-C due to the FSM creating four universes (which i never was against him doing due to updated info, only was against the timeframe of which it happened, which id also accept if it was agreed on that it happened in a short timeframe)

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Lol

Yeah, Khadjikhan says Realm is going to fall apart. Thanks for supporting my points.

funnily enough, being a void would literally support my point aswell as showing only the land was destroyed.

No? “Only the land was destroyed” is your headcanon applied to both Djinnjago and Onis. Either give a proper evidence or just quit making stuff up

See above. and thats not how we interperet statements, we go based on context. The same way i can say "ill destroy this planet and leave nothing left" and it only refer to me destroying the surface. You need actual proof the entire universe was affected and not the land as ive shown

If someone says “I’ll destroy Earth and leave nothing left”, then he will be planetary level unless there is an actual contradiction.

I said that people believed he did, which because of seabound, no one believes it anymore.

I don’t see how FSM creating Realm of Ninjago contradicts anything.

Secondly, his statement wouldnt matter as updated information came out and disproved it.

Disproved what? DR legit confirms he created many Realms, including Ninjago.

This all wouldn't matter anyways as everything involving the balance is a chain reaction feat anyways.

Not “everything”; you never refuted my Overlord argument properly. And it does not matter if it is chain reaction — Djinnjago is still destroyed.

At most the verse besides the source dragons should be a lower tier of 2-C due to the FSM creating four universes (which i never was against him doing due to updated info, only was against the timeframe of which it happened, which id also accept if it was agreed on that it happened in a short timeframe)

At least GoL, Oni army, Emperor/Oni Garmadon, USM, FSM, Overlord and Source Dragons are 2-C.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

funnily enough, being a void would literally support my point aswell as showing only the land was destroyed.

Are you telling me only a void being left = Space exist? Is this a joke

See above. and thats not how we interperet statements, we go based on context. The same way i can say "ill destroy this planet and leave nothing left" and it only refer to me destroying the surface. You need actual proof the entire universe was affected and not the land as ive shown

You should go and try to downgrade Marvel, DC and so many other verses who got 2-C ratings without that logic🗣

This all wouldn't matter anyways as everything involving the balance is a chain reaction feat anyways.

Overlord's dark matter is directly doing the Realm destruction part, so he, and anyone who scales to him are 2-C

Waiting on staff input

 

[Minaaaa]

At least GoL, Oni army, Emperor/Oni Garmadon, USM, FSM, Overlord and Source Dragons are 2-C.

Only GoL, Oni Garmadon, USM, FSM and overlord would be 2-C (Four universes due to fsm), Source dragons keep their 2-C (17 universes)

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Only GoL, Oni Garmadon, USM, FSM and overlord would be 2-C (Four universes due to fsm)

These would scale to 17 via Overlord due to reasons mentioned by me in this thread (which you still didn't properly refute) and Onis who can collectively destroy all Realms.

Source dragons keep their 2-C (17 universes)

At least you got something right.

 

[Minaaaa]

These would scale to 17 via Overlord due to reasons mentioned by me in this thread (which you still didn't properly refute)

Only the overlord would maybe scale to this, as he isnt affecting the metaphysical aspect of the balance, rather hes using indirect means of affecting the balance like corrupting the temple of light or the gw

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Only the overlord would maybe scale to this, as he isnt affecting the metaphysical aspect of the balance, rather hes using indirect means of affecting the balance like corrupting the temple of light or the gw

My argument was not due to him destroying Balance. You misunderstood me.
Also, saying that he would affect Balance via Temple of Light in Crystalized is a literal headcanon.

 

[Minaaaa]

Also, saying that he would affect Balance via Temple of Light in Crystalized is a literal headcanon.

No im saying that the ways used to affect the balance, like with the temple of light, were through indirect means

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

No im saying that the ways used to affect the balance, like with the temple of light, were through indirect means

It was to make Balance to turn to the side of Evil. In Crystalized he outright says he will DESTROY it.
Also, the argument was “destroy everything” > all Realms are permanently in Darkness.

 

[Arceus0x]

Aight fellas let me makes this simple. Make the UES go through and you'll get your 2-C.

 

[Minaaaa]

Why would he scale to it? Hes just causing a chain reaction by corrupting light and not directly affecting the aspect of the balance.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Why would he scale to it? Hes just causing a chain reaction by corrupting light and not directly affecting the aspect of the balance.

His dark matter is directly affecting the Balance by corrupting the Light (as seen by Clouse), as well as the same Dark Matter being used to obliderate the Realms (The consequence of him corrupting the Temple of Light resulted in Overlord's power to start spreading and destroying the Realms).

Aight fellas let me makes this simple. Make the UES go through and you'll get your 2-C.

Bet

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Aight fellas let me makes this simple. Make the UES go through and you'll get your 2-C.

Did you check my Overlord argument and LloydBlitzed’s blog btw?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Aight fellas let me makes this simple. Make the UES go through and you'll get your 2-C.

It got accepted

 

[Minaaaa]

His dark matter is directly affecting the Balance by corrupting the Light (as seen by Clouse), as well as the same Dark Matter being used to obliderate the Realms (The consequence of him corrupting the Temple of Light resulted in Overlord's power to start spreading and destroying the Realms).

I cannot stress this enough, he isnt affecting the balance on a metaphysical level. For the temple of light, its just shifting the balance of power over to darkness so darkness can rule

As for the overlord "destroying the balance", hes literally just getting rid of light so darkness can rule. This has been a facet of his character since he was introduced.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I cannot stress this enough, he isnt affecting the balance on a metaphysical level. For the temple of light, its just shifting the balance of power over to darkness so darkness can rule

As for the overlord "destroying the balance", hes literally just getting rid of light so darkness can rule. This has been a facet of his character since he was introduced.

You keep misunderstanding. Yes, changing Balance to the side of Evil is not a direct feat done by raw AP/Hax. However, getting rid of light/darkness so another side can rule never broke the Balance. Balance is the very reason of why “wherever is light, there must also be a shadow” applies to the verse.

Destruction comes from conflict, from the eternal struggle between light and dark. I will end that struggle. If you serve me, I will destroy the Balanceand end the conflict once and for all. There will be peace in the dark.

Overlord, A Sinister Shadow

Conflict would continue if he would just get rid of light. New light would arise. The sane way when Overlord won in Season 2, Lloyd came and became USM. The same way as when Overlord died in Season 3 but then came back in Crystalized. That’s it. Saying that getting rid of light would destroy the Balance is going against narrative of the verse.

Also you STILL did not properly refute “destroy everything” argument. You just said “hYpErBoLe” despite me explaining in detail why this should have been taken very, VERY literally.

 

[Minaaaa]

Dude, in the actual show, the overlord literally wants to corrupt the powers of creation. This combined with the numerous others scans about him just ruling ninjago and not actually destroying the balance. You dont have to stretch every statement imaginable and remove it from its context. We have actualy context into how the overlord "destroys" the balance, By causing more dark than light so he can rule. He isnt affecting it directly or on a conceptual level

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Dude, in the actual show, the overlord literally wants to corrupt the powers of creation. This combined with the numerous others scans about him just ruling ninjago and not actually destroying the balance.

Corrupting something means your affecting it, the tiering isn't changing. You are saying something like: "He doesn't want to destroy the Universe, only corrupt the Light side which keeps it intact". Your conclusions are just leading to saying Overlord can corrupt a Low Multiverse concept. Also, why are we all acting like Overlord isn't litterally representing the dark side of the Balance

You dont have to stretch every statement imaginable and remove it from its context. We have actualy context into how the overlord "destroys" the balance, By causing more dark than light so he can rule. He isnt affecting it directly or on a conceptual level

Dark Island has shown that the Realms destruction are lit his powers doing?

I cannot stress this enough, he isnt affecting the balance on a metaphysical level. For the temple of light, its just shifting the balance of power over to darkness so darkness can rule

That darkness rules by vaporizing the Realms overall, its legit why Wu warned Clouse not to offset the Balance

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Dude, in the actual show, the overlord literally wants to corrupt the powers of creation. This combined with the numerous others scans about him just ruling ninjago and not actually destroying the balance. You dont have to stretch every statement imaginable and remove it from its context. We have actualy context into how the overlord "destroys" the balance, By causing more dark than light so he can rule. He isnt affecting it directly or on a conceptual level

It is never once stated that having more darkness than light would destroy the Balance. In fact, it is even contradicted in the show: throughout the whole series we see one-sided wins but it does NOT destroy the Balance. We saw OG 4 getting corrupted in Season 2 and it did NOT destroy the Balance. You just ignored the context and went on pushing your own headcanons again.

Also ignored destroying everything argument. Nice.

 

[Minaaaa]

Corrupting something means your affecting it, the tiering isn't changing. You are saying something like: "He doesn't want to destroy the Universe, only corrupt the Light side which keeps it intact".

This doesnt matter, he isnt affecting it on a conceptual level or even directly, these are chain reactions.

It is never once stated that having more darkness than light would destroy the Balance. In fact, it is even contradicted in the show: throughout the whole series we see one-sided wins but it does NOT destroy the Balance. You just ignored the context and went on pushing your own headcanons again.

We literally see in the show what he means by "Destroying the balance". You dont have to remove statements from their context and then act like its a bigger feat than it is.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

This doesnt matter, he isnt affecting it on a conceptual level or even directly, these are chain reactions.

Hmmm let’s see in the show:
Corrupted OG 3 and entire Ninjago City -> Balance is fine
Corrupted GWs -> Balance is fine
Light won -> Balance is fine
Darkness won -> Balance is fine

There is NO fckn way to indirectly destroy it, you just made shit up

We literally see in the show what he means by "Destroying the balance". You dont have to remove statements from their context and then act like its a bigger feat than it is.

I… already went over this. The narrative is literally about that Overlord plans to stop the conflict between Light and Darkness by destroying what causes it in the first place: Balance. You don’t have to remove statements from the context and narrative and then act like the feat is non-existent.

 

[Minaaaa]

I… already went over this. The narrative is literally about that Overlord plans to stop the conflict between Light and Darkness by destroying what causes it in the first place: Balance.

And hes doing this by, you guessed it, by corrupting the powers of creation. Again, an indirect means

 

[Lloydblitzed]

This doesnt matter, he isnt affecting it on a conceptual level or even directly, these are chain reactions.

Please tell me how corrupting the balance isn't affecting the Balance? And what I pointed out about Overlord litterally being the Dark part of the Balance (Also referred here and WOG pointing out Overlord IS PART OF THE BALANCE) matters a lot, as this implies he directly scales to anything related to the Balance, bc bro is litterally part of it. Saying he can't affect it on a conceptual level is a lie

We literally see in the show what he means by "Destroying the balance". You dont have to remove statements from their context and then act like its a bigger feat than it is.

Corrupting the Light/Creation is still corrupting the Balance, and we know he isn't just going to engulf Ninjago in Darkness because of what happened in Dark Island, and I really don't see any link of how corrupting GWs = Corrupting Creation.

 

[Minaaaa]

Please tell me how corrupting the balance isn't affecting the Balance?

Simple, he isnt actually corrupting it, which again, is through indirect means. Hes never been shown directly affecting the balance, its ALWAYS through corruption of another thing.

Corrupting the Light/Creation is still corrupting the Balance, and we know he isn't just going to engulf Ninjago in Darkness because of what happened in Dark Island,

Dark Island doesnt even support this as clouse literally said he wanted to rule over ninjago when its in darkness. Turning ninjago into darkness has been apart of the overlord's story since forever, even scans support this.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

And hes doing this by, you guessed it, by corrupting the powers of creation. Again, an indirect means

Hmmm, wow, somehow the moment you linked never says that corrupting Elements of Creation is the how Overlord destroys the Balance. You just made that up.
Funny enough, same thing with Onis. You made up that Cloud of Destruction was how they were supposed to destroy all of the Realms and then showed that it did not actually destroy anything.
Great job. Making up headcanons just to downgrade the verse (idk what Ninjago did to you)

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Simple, he isnt actually corrupting it, which again, is through indirect means. Hes never been shown directly affecting the balance, its ALWAYS through corruption of another thing.

Affecting as in changing to which side Balance goes? Sure. Outright destroying the Balance? No, you never proved it was indirect. You just used your own headcanon.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Dark Island doesnt even support this as clouse literally said he wanted to rule over ninjago when its in darkness. Turning ninjago into darkness has been apart of the overlord's story since forever, even scans support this.

Ever heard of “significantly affecting”?

 

[Minaaaa]

Hmmm, wow, somehow the moment you linked never says that corrupting Elements of Creation is the how Overlord destroys the Balance. You just made that up.

so the overlord is "destroying" the balance by??? You dont even have an explanation on how hes doing it.

Ever heard of “significantly affecting”?

doesnt apply here and significantly affecting still requires direct means

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

so the overlord is "destroying" the balance by??? You dont even have an explanation on how hes doing it.

You don’t need an explanation. We have legit statement that he can destroy the Balance. Unless you have an ACTUAL proof it is chain reaction, then it is assumed by default he does it via his own raw power.

 

[Minaaaa]

You want to give him a rating without you yourself even knowing how said rating is done? this has to be a joke

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Hes never been shown directly affecting the balance, its ALWAYS through corruption of another thing.

S2: Overlord corrupting the Light Side of The Balance with Dark Matter.

so the overlord is "destroying" the balance by??? You dont even have an explanation on how hes doing it.

By corrupting the Light Side of it and thus taking over it? Clouse hints that if the Temple fall, then the Darkness will spread out and Merge Ninjago, and Wu tells us it won't stop here, but it would affect the Realms. I'd also like to point out Wu stated the Balance was restored after stopping the Dark Matter spreading. What offset the Balance? The Dark Matter. From who does Dark Matter come from? from Overlord
Also, as explained earlier, Overlord is part of the Balance. The same Balance affects and holds the Realms intact, where Light and Dark must always exists, so he directly affecting those Realms along with FSM, as they are the ones who represents the Balance

 

[Minaaaa]

S2: Overlord corrupting the Light Side of The Balance with Dark Matter.

this is caused by the shifting of power over to darkness, making them unbalance and thus allowing the overlord to cross over. again, indirect

By corrupting the Light Side of it and thus taking over it? Clouse hints that if the Temple fall, then the Darkness will spread out and Merge Ninjago, and Wu tells us it won't stop here, but it would affect the Realms. I'd also like to point out Wu stated the Balance was restored after stopping the Dark Matter spreading. What offset the Balance? The Dark Matter. From who does Dark Matter come from? from Overlord

for the 100th time, this is STILL INDIRECT. These are still chain reaction feats, unless you have anything showning hes directly interacting with the conceptual part of the balance, none of your arguments mean anything

 

[Lloydblitzed]

for the 100th time, this is STILL INDIRECT. These are still chain reaction feats, unless you have anything showning hes directly interacting with the conceptual part of the balance, none of your arguments mean anything

So being part of the Balance which is affecting the Realms is a chain reaction? Not only this is a big Hasty Generalization fallacy, but just show you don't care about counter-arguments whatsoever.

Im waiting on staff input to bring something new to this convo

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I don't really see anything wrong with the Tier 2 ratings, the scaling seems pretty evident.

 

[Minaaaa]

The tier 2 ratings would be lower scaling due to the FSM which im fine with (whether it be the rating i proposed in the or being flat 2-C). The problem are the balance feats, which are misinterpreted or taken out of context

 

[JJSliderman]

Tbh I’m kind of doubting tier 2, most of the time it seems like the realms are portrayed as just planets or islands or continents contained in a larger universe.