New DBS speed scale (Insanely fast)

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Hello.
I made a blog explaining the speeds of DBS characters like the current one in use right now. This is the link to the blog, I will also copy and paste it here. This scale is absolutely insane and I really hope it is well received so tell me what you think.

Blog starts here.

Hello.

This is a new DBS speed scale, I feel that the current speed scale is good but lacking in showing the full potential of the characters' speed.

Let us agree on the multipliers used first of all. Kaioken = 2-20x base, SSJ/SSJ rose = 50x base, SSJ2 SSJ3 SSG = unknown at least 50x base, SSB = 2500x base, SSBK20/SSBE = 50,000x base.

The calculation and value we are using is this 196x10^15 c calculation.

Scaling chain

196x10^15 c = SSG Goku < Base Goku < 50x = SSJ Goku < RoF SSJ Goku < 50x = SSB Goku < U6 SSB Goku < 10x = SSBK10 Goku
U6 SSB Goku < Zamasu arc SSB Goku = SSB Vegeta = Base Black < 50x = SSR Black < SSB Vegeta = post training/hit rematch SSB Goku < SSBK10 Goku < Base Vegito < 2500x = SSB Vegito < Infinite Zamasu < Sign 1 Goku < Heavily Suppressed Jiren < SSJ2 Kefla < Sign 2 Goku < Post Sign 2 SSB Goku < 20x = SSBK20 Goku = SSBE Vegeta < Suppressed Jiren < Beerus and GoDs < Belmod < Full power Jiren = Sign 3 Goku < Hidden Power Jiren < UI Goku.

TOP Post Sign 2 SSB Goku < Broly SSB Goku < 20x < SSBK20 Goku = SSBE Vegeta < Base Gogeta < 50x < SSJ Gogeta = SSJ Broly < 50x = SSB Gogeta > SSJ full power Broly > Beerus and GoDs.

Scaling chain explanation

SSG was absorbed into Goku's base. Base Black can damage and take hits from SSB Vegeta and SSR is considered the same as SSJ for black SOURCE. Base Vegito scales above SSBK10 Goku because base fusions are stronger than the fusers strongest forms. Base Gogeta scales above SSBE Vegeta because base fusions are stronger than the fusers strongest forms. The GoDs scale to SSJ full power Broly who scales to SSB Gogeta. Goku and Jiren scale above the GoDs so they also scale to SSB Gogeta.

The calculation

196x10^15 x 2500 x 50 x 10 x 2500 x 20 x 50 x 50 = At least 3.0625x10^31 c or 30.625 Nonillion times FTL massively low balling. (WTF)

Speed scaling

SSG Goku = 196 quadrillion C

BOG ROF U6 SSJ Goku = At least 9.8 quintillion C, likely far higher

ROF and U6 and zamasu arc SSB Goku = At least 490 quintillion C, likely far higher

SSBK10 Goku = At least 4.9 sextillion C, likely far higher

Post training and TOP SSB Goku = At least 24.5 sextillion C, likely far higher

SSB Vegito and all the universe+ dudes until Broly SSB Goku = At least 612.5 septillion C, likely far higher

SSBK20 Goku = At least 12.25 octillion C, likely far higher

SSJ Gogeta = At least 612.5 octillion C, likely far higher

SSB Gogeta = At least 30.625 nonillion C, likely far higher (this value scales to the GoDs, Broly, Sign 3 goku, Jiren, UI Goku, the angels, the GP and Zeno)

Notes

• The 196 quadrillion c speed for Suppressed Beerus and SSG DBS Goku is based on the accepted calculation for this feat.
• SSJ is officially a 50x multiplier in Daizenshuu and Super exciting guide, however more than that it is consistent with the showings in the manga as a 50x speed multiplier as well. Goku using Kaiokenx10 was being speed blitzed by 50% Frieza, and even Kaiokenx20 while using a kamehameha was at best equal to 50% Frieza's speed, yet using SSJ allowed Goku to speed blitz 50% Frieza, and even have an edge in speed over 100% Frieza, therefore it is highly consistent with the 50x multiplier assigned to it.
• Goku gained many substantial boosts from unquantifiable transformations, zenkais, breaking his limits, constant battling and training. This is acknowledged in the "at least" and "likely far higher" additions.
• We use the Kaioken multipliers because they are explicitly stated to multiply speed and power by the number stated in the technique. This further extends to SSJ fra. We continue to use Kaioken multipliers in DBS as well as the SSJ multiplier, however we do not use other multipliers such as SSJ2, SSJ3 etc. because they are less consistent and not backed up by hard evidence via kaioken multipliers like SSJ is.
• SSJB has been repeatedly stated to be the Super Saiyan level/version of SSJG and to be what happens when a SSJG transforms into a SSJ. Therefore it has been accepted that SSJB would logically grant a 50x speed multiplier like SSJ does and is useable on this wiki.
• Gogeta's SSJB speed numbers should logically scale to Broly, who is touted as being around Beerus level. This is because Broly overwhelms SSJ Gogeta, and forces him to use SSJB, he outright dodges SSJB Gogeta's first energy blast volley, reacts to and blocks multiple attacks, and trades blows with him multiple times continuously coming back for more after taking multiple serious attack's head on. This shows at least somewhat comparable speed and power. Gogeta even felt the need to Kill Broly, which he would only do if Broly was a serious threat.
• Now for the most important note here, base fusion is consistently portrayed as being stronger than the fusers strongest forms (base Gotenks > SSJ trunks, Base Vegito > SSJ3 Goku, Base Kefla > berserker kale), thus it is safe to assume that base Vegito would be stronger than SSBK10 Goku. The only time when this is contradicted is with base Gogeta not scaling above UI Goku, but Gogeta would still end up scaling above SSBK20 Goku since it is consistent with the scaling unlike scaling with UI Goku which ruins the scale.

Agree: 9
disagree: 7
Thank you for reading!

 

[DragonLord]

At least 6.125x10^32 c or 612.5 Nonillion times FTL massively low balling. (WTF)

That is certainly a number

I can’t imagine this post if it were using the x2 and x4 SSJ multipliers

 

[Bernkastelll]

I agree with this scaling chain, CRT when

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

That is certainly a number

I can’t imagine this post if it were using the x2 and x4 SSJ multipliers

This is top 5 MFTL+ in the wiki btw.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Damn.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I agree with this scaling chain, CRT when

If nobody brings any arguments against this and a good amount of time passes or most people agree, then I'll make a CRT.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

bump

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Bumpp

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

bumppp one minute too early

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

bumpppp

 

[AwkguyDB]

I also agree with this

 

[K_o_Karlyn]

I also agree

 

[K_o_Karlyn]

Bump

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Bumppppp

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

wow

 

[Orange]

I definitely agree!
who are we kidding, it will probably not going to get accepted

 

[Orange]

Also also.
imo base gogeta should scale above goku blue kk20.
base xeno goku should scale above canon blue gogeta

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Also also.
imo base gogeta should scale above goku blue kk20.
base xeno goku should scale above canon blue gogeta

I know jack shit about dragon ball heroes scaling, so you can figure that out if this scaling is good.

 

[Maskofthedragon]

Goku:...

 

[RedReaper616]

My only real concern with this chain is treating SSR as equal to SSJ, because it is explicitly shown to be its own thing, equal to SSB over SSJ if you want to take the Manga’s word for it. And while the anime is separate, it has never distinguished SSR as a SSJ counterpart-In fact, it never explains it at all. Secondly, SSR would have to be a far vaster multiplier to cover the distance it did, which was curbstomping two SSBs and Trunks on its own, in comparison to Base Black, who while LETTING HIMSELF get hit, was still taking damage, (albeit just minor black lines that mysteriously appear in fights, damage that is frankly superficial in nature. But it DID occur.) I think it’d be better to either A) Label it as unknown/unquantifiable, or B) Label it a SSB counterpart, since while the Manga IS a separate continuity, the prime events and concepts of the plot for both have MAJOR overlap.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I agree with this

Scalings are pretty solid, so the numbers make sense

 

[K_o_Karlyn]

My only real concern with this chain is treating SSR as equal to SSJ, because it is explicitly shown to be its own thing, equal to SSB over SSJ if you want to take the Manga’s word for it. And while the anime is separate, it has never distinguished SSR as a SSJ counterpart-In fact, it never explains it at all. Secondly, SSR would have to be a far vaster multiplier to cover the distance it did, which was curbstomping two SSBs and Trunks on its own, in comparison to Base Black, who while LETTING HIMSELF get hit, was still taking damage, (albeit just minor black lines that mysteriously appear in fights, damage that is frankly superficial in nature. But it DID occur.) I think it’d be better to either A) Label it as unknown/unquantifiable, or B) Label it a SSB counterpart, since while the Manga IS a separate continuity, the prime events and concepts of the plot for both have MAJOR overlap.

Just wanted to say that their is a way to interpret/counter: SSB= A Super Saiyan God ki who uses super saiyan ki. SSR: God Ki(Zamasu) + Super Saiyan ki.

- Zamasu was regarded for his genius martial arts intellect. In conjuction with his encounters with goku and his Godly knowledge, he uses the adaptive properties of a saiyan to get stronger, but much faster.

Essentially, Zamasu learned how to Broly and thats why even though his ssr= God ki + super saiyan ki, he gets soo strong so fast is because he knows how to exploit saiyan genes. Hence why after learning about rage being a factor to saiyan growth, death scythe goku black happened.


There's this too

 

[K_o_Karlyn]

Bump

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

My only real concern with this chain is treating SSR as equal to SSJ, because it is explicitly shown to be its own thing, equal to SSB over SSJ if you want to take the Manga’s word for it. And while the anime is separate, it has never distinguished SSR as a SSJ counterpart-In fact, it never explains it at all. Secondly, SSR would have to be a far vaster multiplier to cover the distance it did, which was curbstomping two SSBs and Trunks on its own, in comparison to Base Black, who while LETTING HIMSELF get hit, was still taking damage, (albeit just minor black lines that mysteriously appear in fights, damage that is frankly superficial in nature. But it DID occur.) I think it’d be better to either A) Label it as unknown/unquantifiable, or B) Label it a SSB counterpart, since while the Manga IS a separate continuity, the prime events and concepts of the plot for both have MAJOR overlap.

Ah yes I expected this. Let me explain. Black used a form called saiyan beyond god, which is a form that harnesses the power of a super saiyan god in base form, upon transforming into a super saiyan, a saiyan beyond god unlocks super saiyan blue, in blacks case, his form is super saiyan rose. So technically black wasn't actually in base as he was using ssg power with it. But nontheless, this is the reason why it's a 50x multiplier on top of blacks "base". Since black was matching blue goku and vegeta in base, then he would be 50x stronger than both goku and vegeta which is more than enough to stomp.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Please read this thread.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Please read this thread.

Why? If you got something against this then say it, besides, I don't know how to read.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Why? If you got something against this then say it, besides, I don't know how to read.

Because that thread's OP is basically the same as this one and got denied

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Because that thread's OP is basically the same as this one and got denied

No it's not. Anyway I want your opinion so please read my post and tell me if you agree or disagree with the scaling.

 

[DaReaperMan]

No it's not. Anyway I want your opinion so please read my post and tell me if you agree or disagree with the scaling.

Why isnt it applied then huh? My opinion is the last thread where this was discussed stands as a denial.

 

[Firestorm808]

@SSJRyu1

Thoughts?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Why isnt it applied then huh? My opinion is the last thread where this was discussed stands as a denial.

Well I understand but I'm curious, what do you think is wrong with the scale?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Well I understand but I'm curious, what do you think is wrong with the scale?

Because I didn't think we accepted DB multipliers

 

[Chariot190]

Because I didn't think we accepted DB multipliers

We do, but only like, ssj1 and kaioken iirc.

 

[StekFence]

We do, but only like, ssj1 and kaioken iirc.

What does that mean exactly for this scaling chain

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Because I didn't think we accepted DB multipliers

All the multipliers I used are accepted. In fact, ryu's current speed scale uses them, it's linked in the OP, take a look.

 

[AKM sama]

SSG was absorbed into Goku's base and throughout the Beerus fight until the end, base Goku got 2x stronger than when he was a SSG

If somebody got stronger, they'd get faster. But we don't assume the degree of increase is same for both unless a multiplier that applies to both is mentioned. Just because Goku got 2x stronger, does not mean he got 2x faster.

SSJ/SSJ rose = 50x base

SSJ Rose is not treated as a 50x multiplier. This was rejected here.

Base Vegito scales above SSBK20 Goku because base fusions are stronger than the fusers strongest forms.

I'd avoid using Vegito altogether because his fusion was heavily downplayed in the arc. An injured SSB Goku and then Ikari Trunks who is around the same level were able to harm Fusion Zamasu, in which case, even Base Vegito should have had no trouble if it was portrayed right. The powerscaling was all over the place and that specific portion is riddled with inconsistencies.

Suppressed Jiren can fight can beat both SSBK20 Goku and SSBE Vegeta at the same time

This does not mean he is 2x faster.

A speed scaling that goes from quadrillions to septillions just based on multipliers without any other supporting evidence and speed feats is already very contentious and perhaps need to be looked at again at some point. That, in itself, is not conservative, it is an insane highball. And this is not going to be accepted.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

If somebody got stronger, they'd get faster. But we don't assume the degree of increase is same for both unless a multiplier that applies to both is mentioned. Just because Goku got 2x stronger, does not mean he got 2x faster.

Okay that's fair.

SSJ Rose is not treated as a 50x multiplier. This was rejected here.

That thread is mange only, SSR is the same as SSB, but black was in saiyan beyond god which is equal to SSG, and transforming into a SSJ makes him turn into his own version of SSB. Base black is shown to be matching SSB vegeta, so he'd be 50x stronger in SSR.

I'd avoid using Vegito altogether because his fusion was heavily downplayed in the arc. An injured SSB Goku and then Ikari Trunks who is around the same level were able to harm Fusion Zamasu, in which case, even Base Vegito should have had no trouble if it was portrayed right. The powerscaling was all over the place and that specific portion is riddled with inconsistencies.

Well examples like that are outliers, I see no problem using vegito because it's consistent every time fusion is used that the base fusion is stronger than the fusers at their strongest. Even if it's inconsistent doesn't make it completely unusable.

This does not mean he is 2x faster.

Actually yes, it means his power level is more than twice both of them, so his speed is too.

A speed scaling that goes from quadrillions to septillions just based on multipliers without any other supporting evidence and speed feats is already very contentious and perhaps need to be looked at again at some point. That, in itself, is not conservative, it is an insane highball. And this is not going to be accepted.

High ball? This is a low ball, the hell are you talking about?

 

[K_o_Karlyn]

Okay that's fair.

That thread is mange only, SSR is the same as SSB, but black was in saiyan beyond god which is equal to SSG, and transforming into a SSJ makes him turn into his own version of SSB. Base black is shown to be matching SSB vegeta, so he'd be 50x stronger in SSR.

Well examples like that are outliers, I see no problem using vegito because it's consistent every time fusion is used that the base fusion is stronger than the fusers at their strongest. Even if it's inconsistent doesn't make it completely unusable.

Actually yes, it means his power level is more than twice both of them, so his speed is too.

High ball? This is a low ball, the hell are you talking about?

Yeah its def a lowball lbs

 

[JirensMom]

I think we should stick to only using accepted multipliers just to be safe. Base fusion >>> Strongest fusees form does seem extremely possible since we see Base Gogeta hanging with SSJ Broly while Blue Goku and Vegeta got demolished within seconds and Golden Frieza who I'm pretty sure we accept as stronger than Blue Kkx20 Goku and Evolution Vegeta(not sure might have to check up on that) was only barely hanging in against Broly.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I think we should stick to only using accepted multipliers just to be safe. Base fusion >>> Strongest fusees form does seem extremely possible since we see Base Gogeta hanging with SSJ Broly while Blue Goku and Vegeta got demolished within seconds and Golden Frieza who I'm pretty sure we accept as stronger than Blue Kkx20 Goku and Evolution Vegeta(not sure might have to check up on that) was only barely hanging in against Broly.

Accepted multipliers are, ssj 50x ssb 2500x, kaioken 2-20x, ssbe 50000x. SSR is 50x for reasons above. I use all this in the scale.