Nekron no longer bad?!?! (DC Comics Nekron rework and potential Captain Atom upgrade)

[Confluctor]

Confluctor/Nekron

vsbattles.fandom.com

Here is my rework of the page. Will apply tabbers later, cause editing references with tabbers is a pain in the rear side.

In any case, do with it as you will.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Where does it say he was retconned into being the primordial darkness and death of the universe? Why would that not just apply to his classic version?

 

[Confluctor]

I already explained elsewhere, you don't wanna believe me, just read the comic itself.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Should at least be comparable to other Lanterns and emotional entities, if not faster.

Why is that?

Nekron fought White Lantern Sinestro who should be comparable to White Lantern Kyle

Why would is he comparable to Kyle?

Varies (The more people die, the stronger he gets[21])

The varies tier is only for characters who change their tiers entirely depending on a certain factor, which is why we don't give a varies tier for everyone with empowerment or reactive evolution, so this shouldn't be in the tier

 

[XXKINGXX69]

I already explained elsewhere, you don't wanna believe me, just read the comic itself.

I already read almost all his appearances and re read the Captain Atom comic and the beginning of blackest night right before commenting, it doesn't say anywhere that it was a retcon or some kinda change that affects Nekron's history

 

[Confluctor]

Why is that?

Cause he can fight them? And there is the cosmological placement which puts him above others in terms of power.

Why would is he comparable to Kyle?

Because they are both hosts of the white lantern. Ofc, Kyle is far more powerful, but they would still be in the same range of power.

The varies tier is only for characters who change their tiers entirely depending on a certain factor, which is why we don't give a varies tier for everyone with empowerment or reactive evolution, so this shouldn't be in the tier

Yeah, I am well aware. Except Nekron's stuff does depend on how much souls and dead people there are. He clearly gets stronger and stronger with more dead in his """domain""""

I already read almost all his appearances and re read the Captain Atom comic and the beginning of blackest night right before commenting, it doesn't say anywhere that it was a retcon or some kinda change that affects Nekron's history

Okay, explain the dead zone difference and world of unliving then. The latter was a higher dimensional plane - around Limbo.

In the past, he was just death, but later he was both darkness and death. In blackest night and events leading up to it, it was implied Nekron always knew about light and the emotional entities invading his existence, but that wasn't the case in GL Corps or Captain Atom series, or even during Green Lantern Vol 4 annual 7 or something.

In addition, in original, he was in a different dimension and wanted to invade the main one, whereas now we know for a fact that he is the actual universe, as opposed to just being an invader from another universe.

Oh, on top of that, the change in motivation is also a big factor into why they are separated.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Cause he can fight them? And there is the cosmological placement which puts him above others in terms of power.

Because they are both hosts of the white lantern. Ofc, Kyle is far more powerful, but they would still be in the same range of power.

Yeah, I am well aware. Except Nekron's stuff does depend on how much souls and dead people there are. He clearly gets stronger and stronger with more dead in his """domain""""


Okay, explain the dead zone difference and world of unliving then. The latter was a higher dimensional plane - around Limbo.

In the past, he was just death, but later he was both darkness and death. In blackest night and events leading up to it, it was implied Nekron always knew about light and the emotional entities invading his existence, but that wasn't the case in GL Corps or Captain Atom series, or even during Green Lantern Vol 4 annual 7 or something.

In addition, in original, he was in a different dimension and wanted to invade the main one, whereas now we know for a fact that he is the actual universe, as opposed to just being an invader from another universe.

Oh, on top of that, the change in motivation is also a big factor into why they are separated.

Cause he can fight them? And there is the cosmological placement which puts him above others in terms of power.

Then post those scans. And what cosmological placement?

In the past, he was just death, but later he was both darkness and death

Where does it say he was just death and not darkness in the past?

but that wasn't the case in GL Corps or Captain Atom series, or even during Green Lantern Vol 4 annual 7 or something.

Where does it say Nekron didn't know about the light?

Because they are both hosts of the white lantern.

How does this make them in the same range of power?

Yeah, I am well aware. Except Nekron's stuff does depend on how much souls and dead people there are. He clearly gets stronger and stronger with more dead in his """domain""""

Does his tier change with the amount of souls? If so, its important that you add different tiers there like "Varies from 2-C to whatever"

In addition, in original, he was in a different dimension and wanted to invade the main one, whereas now we know for a fact that he is the actual universe, as opposed to just being an invader from another universe.

This could just mean he now has omnipresence in his modern version, which isn't a retcon, just a new ability for Nekron

Oh, on top of that, the change in motivation is also a big factor into why they are separated.

You think that people having a different motivation means they just get retconned and their histories are altered and their abilities change? On my way to downgrade Aquaman for having character development now brb

 

[Confluctor]

Then post those scans. And what cosmological placement?

Him fighting white lantern and it's host is already linked on his page tho.

Also Nekron > other entities

Where does it say he was just death and not darkness in the past?

You said you read the stuff, but doesn't seem like it.... The darkness stuff were added during blackest night. Now he is both.

Where does it say Nekron didn't know about the light?

GL corps

How does this make them in the same range of power?

.............

Prove otherwise.

Also emotional entity hosts are accepted as such here through power scaling.

Does his tier change with the amount of souls? If so, its important that you add different tiers there like "Varies from 2-C to whatever"

You do realise 2C is an insane range, right? They already scale to 100 universes or so

This could just mean he now has omnipresence in his modern version, which isn't a retcon, just a new ability for Nekron

.........Which is precisely a retcon

You think that people having a different motivation means they just get retconned and their histories are altered and their abilities change? On my way to downgrade Aquaman for having character development now brb

When the entire characters personality and motivation does a 180, yes.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Him fighting white lantern and it's host is already linked on his page tho.

Also Nekron > other entities

You said you read the stuff, but doesn't seem like it.... The darkness stuff were added during blackest night. Now he is both.

GL corps

.............

Prove otherwise.

Also emotional entity hosts are accepted as such here through power scaling.

You do realise 2C is an insane range, right? They already scale to 100 universes or so

.........Which is precisely a retcon

When the entire characters personality and motivation does a 180, yes.

You said you read the stuff, but doesn't seem like it.... The darkness stuff were added during blackest night. Now he is both.

How does it being added in blackest night mean it only applies to blackest night nekron?

GL corps

Show me

Prove otherwise.

Saying that Kyle and Sinestro are in the same range of power is a positive claim

.........Which is precisely a retcon

A retcon is someone's history being altered. Having a new ability isn't the same as your whole history being changed

When the entire characters personality and motivation does a 180, yes.

Ok, can you prove that having a massive change in personality means a character's history is altered to the point where they lose certain abilities? And how does changing personality mean their history is changed?

 

[Confluctor]

Will get back to this after work

 

[Confluctor]

How does it being added in blackest night mean it only applies to blackest night nekron?

Prove otherwise

Show me

Not sure if you are blind, but the scans are there.

Saying that Kyle and Sinestro are in the same range of power is a positive claim

Prove otherwise then

A retcon is someone's history being altered. Having a new ability isn't the same as your whole history being changed

Actually having your placement altered on a cosmic scale is indeed a retcon.

Ok, can you prove that having a massive change in personality means a character's history is altered to the point where they lose certain abilities? And how does changing personality mean their history is changed?

Again, his cosmic placement is changed. That's more than enough. And so has his character personality and whatnot, and also his history. If you read his original appearance and then the blackest night one you will realise just how different it is. Back then, he was in the world of the unliving, but now he is essentially the universe itself and was always aware of the light and emotions - whereas that wasn't the case originally. Oh, and the Dead Zone is a new concept that didn't exist in his classic incarnation.

 

[Confluctor]

@Antvasima

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Prove otherwise

Not sure if you are blind, but the scans are there.

Prove otherwise then


Actually having your placement altered on a cosmic scale is indeed a retcon.

Again, his cosmic placement is changed. That's more than enough. And so has his character personality and whatnot, and also his history. If you read his original appearance and then the blackest night one you will realise just how different it is. Back then, he was in the world of the unliving, but now he is essentially the universe itself and was always aware of the light and emotions - whereas that wasn't the case originally. Oh, and the Dead Zone is a new concept that didn't exist in his classic incarnation.

There would need to be evidence that in Blackest Night, something about Nekron changed and made him only now the embodiment of the primordial darkness. A retcon is a change in history, not new information

Not sure if you are blind, but the scans are there.

Where?

Actually having your placement altered on a cosmic scale is indeed a retcon.

Scans that his "placement was altered on a cosmic scale"?

Back then, he was in the world of the unliving, but now he is essentially the universe itself and was always aware of the light and emotions - whereas that wasn't the case originally

Where does it say that he wasn't the universe itself originally? And why is it a retcon and not just this Nekron being a different character? And why isn't it just Blackest Night Nekron getting a new power?

Oh, and the Dead Zone is a new concept that didn't exist in his classic incarnation.

Not being mentioned isn't the same as it not existing

 

[Confluctor]

There would need to be evidence that in Blackest Night, something about Nekron changed and made him only now the embodiment of the primordial darkness. A retcon is a change in history, not new information

.......................Mate, you aren't reading, are you?

Where?

In all the seconds, and ofc, scaling

Scans that his "placement was altered on a cosmic scale"?

Now you are just ignoring proper canon material... Also, I can't send you 80 issues worth of scans, now can I lmao.

Where does it say that he wasn't the universe itself originally? And why is it a retcon and not just this Nekron being a different character? And why isn't it just Blackest Night Nekron getting a new power?

Again, you need to prove he always was - which I keep repeating, he wasn't. There is no fricking proof of it.

Not being mentioned isn't the same as it not existing

Prove it he always was the universe, which you can't.

 

[Antvasima]

This seems to make sense to me, but the powers and abilities section preferably needs to be better structured via tabbers.

 

[Confluctor]

This seems to make sense to me, but the powers and abilities section preferably needs to be better structured via tabbers.

Oh, that's done on purpose but will be fixed once the crt goes through. it makes easier to edit if things gets removed because source mode isn't working for me.

 

[Antvasima]

@SuperAPM @EmperorRorepme @Ehnkr2beboh @Deagonx @Elizio33 @LordTracer @Planck69 @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame @Armorchompy @Kulf_Boba @LephyrTheRevanchist @Alonik @The_Impress

What do you think about this?

 

[Antvasima]

Oh, that's done on purpose but will be fixed once the crt goes through. it makes easier to edit if things gets removed because source mode isn't working for me.

Okay. No problem. Please try the classic source code editor until the Fandom staff has corrected the bugs with the mixed editor.

 

[Confluctor]

Hm what do you mean? There is only one source editor, no? Never seen classic or pure one. How do I access that?

 

[SuperAPM]

Looks good to me so far

 

[Antvasima]

Hm what do you mean? There is only one source editor, no? Never seen classic or pure one. How do I access that?

See here:

 

[Antvasima]

Looks good to me so far

Thank you for the evaluation.

 

[LordTracer]

I’ll give my thoughts later today, I’m a little too busy to look through this right now.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem. Thank you for helping out.

 

[Confluctor]

See here:
View attachment 266

Hm I will look into that later this week. Thanks

 

[Antvasima]

No problem.

 

[Confluctor]

Bump

 

[StekFence]

Hey so, just saying, the keys are Modern and classic nekron right? But the powers are separated from avatar to true form aren’t they?

 

[Confluctor]

That's correct.

Their powers are essentially the same. It's just the modern one has a true form which has separate abilities. I should clarify that properly on the file itself ig

 

[StekFence]

It looks good to me After I looked though it
althouhg im iffy about negating immor type 1, since that only prevents age and illness, not just being conventionally killed, which is what seemed to have happened. I would think negating immor type 1 is like, age manipping someone who has that immortality.

 

[Confluctor]

I don't mind removing that since death hax kinda covers immortality negation of that sort usually.

 

[Antvasima]

I’ll give my thoughts later today, I’m a little too busy to look through this right now.

@LordTracer

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, what are the conclusions here so far?

 

[LordTracer]

Tier: 2-C, possibly 2-A, Possibly Low 1-C
Attack Potency: Varies (The more souls in his realm, the stronger he is). Low Multiverse level, possibly Multiverse level+ (Although slightly weaker, he should be at least comparable to his newer forms. Stronger than Pre-Crisis era Green Lanterns and Guardians[6][7]), Possibly Low Complex Multiverse level in the World of the Unliving (Is consideredan aspect of true death, likely comparable to the Black Racer.[15] Seemingly ordered the Black Racer to do his bidding for him.[15][8])

The formatting of his tier and AP don’t match each other. His tier should be listed as “Varies. 2-C, possibly 2-A. Possibly Low 1-C in the World of the Unliving”

Infinite absorption speed (Almost devoured the entire DC universe and return it to darkness in a matter of hours[2])

As far as I know, we don’t accept the DC universe as infinite.

Striking Strength: Varies. Low Multiversal, possibly Multiversal+, possibly Low Complex Multiversal

This doesn’t match the previous formatting either.

Range: Low Multiversal, possibly Multiversal+, possibly Low Complex Multiversal

Neither does this.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out. Your evaluations make sense to me.

 

[Confluctor]

The formatting of his tier and AP don’t match each other. His tier should be listed as “Varies. 2-C, possibly 2-A. Possibly Low 1-C in the World of the Unliving”

That will be fixed when I am applying the changes.

As far as I know, we don’t accept the DC universe as infinite.

Tf since when?

This doesn’t match the previous formatting either.

Neither does this.

With which part specifically? It does match the AP section.

 

[LordTracer]

Tf since when?

I don’t recall us ever accepting it as infinite, I only remember using the one trillion light years statement.

With which part specifically? It does match the AP section.

They both just say ‘possibly Low Complex Multiversal’ instead of ‘Possibly Low Complex Multiversal in the World of the Unliving’

 

[Confluctor]

?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

I don’t recall us ever accepting it as infinite, I only remember using the one trillion light years statement.

Who accepted it as only 1 trillion?

 

[Confluctor]

First time hearing about this and marvel being accepted as 1 and 100 trillion light years instead of ******* infinite.