Negating durability with piercing attacks

[Bobsican]

Continued from here, as it seems this deserves its own thread.

Basically, I propose that piercing attacks such as bullets and knifes, swords and so on are cataloged as moves that by default ignore durability and have the potential to one-shot as they can hit in a vital part of a target (hearth, brain, etc), or straight up injure a target regardless of their durability to some extent (Intangibility, Absorbtion and physical characteristics that make the character hard to pierce on are obviously resistant to this, just to point out).

I´ve heard that there are some verses in which those simply don´t ignore durability and just work like any other attack, in those cases we simply apply a case-by-case basis and apply that that verse/character (as it can be variable), simply takes piercing attacks like, say, brute force attacks, and so they simply can´t ignore

 

[Kaltias]

Piercing attacks definitely do not ignore durability. They do more damage than a blunt force attack with the same strength, sure, but they don't negate durability.

For example stabbing a steel plate with a knife won't do anything

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

For example stabbing a steel plate with a knife won't do anything

That's quitter talk. ovo

 

[Kaltias]

Try and tell me how well it works. ovo

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Challenge accepted. ovo

 

[Bobsican]

and physical characteristics that make the character hard to pierce on are obviously resistant to this, just to point out).

This is for you, Kaitias.

 

[Kepekley23]

Hey. Nobody likes a quitter.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Phil Swift takes your challenge and beats it.

 

[DMUA]

It's not negating dura, it's just exploiting surface area to do more damage due to attacking a smaller area

 

[Kaltias]

This is for you, Kaitias.

Ok?

That's just steel being durable, and it isn't durable at all compared to anything that's high end tier 9 or above

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Clearly steel is anti-Durability Negation.

 

[Antoniofer]

Piercing attacks do not ignore durability, but they reduce the durability of the target due dicreasing the surface of contact of the impact. It is work to damage people considerable stronger than you and severy injure those at your level (assuming it attacked in a vital point), but it do not ignore durability.

 

[Bobsican]

For example, stabbing a tier 7 with a 9-B knive.

Are you going to tell me that stabbing a tier 7 wouldn´t do about the same damage as if it was 9-B?

Simply put, this happens very often in about more than 90% of verses in the wiki, and yet we just classify them as PIS, but I think they can make sence, after all, they are made of flesh and bone, and so most characters in the wiki that aren´t dimensionally higher than the piercing object and lack the resistances can be somewhat of a glass canon to it.

 

[Kepekley23]

I mean, if your enemy is not considerably stronger than you are, you could say that sharp objects help way more than punches or blunt ones because surface area doesn't change with power. It will still be a huge force applied over a small area, just in a massive scale.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Why would a 9-B stabbing a Tier 7 with a regular knife with no special properties even remotely do anything?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

They aren't made out of regular flesh and bone. They're made out of flesh and bone that can take Tier 7 attacks.

 

[DMUA]

For example, stabbing a tier 7 with a 9-B knive.

Are you going to tell me that stabbing a tier 7 wouldn´t do about the same damage as if it was 9-B?

YES

I AM!

Ashes to ashes, Threads to Jojokes

 

[Kepekley23]

> Are you going to tell me that stabbing a tier 7 wouldn´t do about the same damage as if it was 9-B?

No because the tier 7 would be able to withstand pressure thousands of times bigger than what a knife can carve through.

 

[Bobsican]

Are you going to tell me that if a 9-B attemped to stab a tier 7, the knife would just bounce or break itself with no injury whatsoever to the tier 7?

 

[Kepekley23]

Yep.

 

[Jinsye]

Are you going to tell me that if a 9-B attemped to stab a tier 7, the knife would just bounce or break itself with no injury whatsoever to the tier 7?

Yes

 

[Antoniofer]

For instance, a regular human could damage maybe severy injure a peak human with a sharp weapon, so the gap is at least 3 times to at most 375.

 

[DMUA]

Yes.

That's how this works

A knife can help you do more damage, but not enough to do that much damage.

I am indeed telling you this along with everyone else.

 

[Kaltias]

I think that they can withstand a knife because they can withstand town busting attacks and last time i checked town busting knives weren't a thing

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

So are we just going to start making everything on the wiki ignore durability in some capacity now, or what?

 

[Antoniofer]

@MrKing, I just suggested increase of damage or decrease of durability; of course, some made of steel could reduce of the gap to the point that sharp weapon do not make as much damage as contundent weapons.

 

[PaChi2]

They aren't made out of regular flesh and bone. They're made out of flesh and bone that can take Tier 7 attacks.

I can tank tier 7 attacks, I dont understand your point.

 

[SchroKatze]

Piercinhg/Slashing attacks do still need to have enough potency to harm the character. It just makes it easier by concentrating all the energy in a single spot, which can lower a little the required energy. Thats not durability negation.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

IIRC, slicing is resisted by hardness, not toughness

 

[Bobsican]

This is why I want this to be classified by default as ignoring durability, rather than heavily dependant in the wielder´s tier.

After all, all the comment have only leaded so far to say that they simply are mainly dependant in AP to Durability gap, just like anything else, so let´s see if it can fit as just ignoring durability to an extent., after all, it happens very often, again, but we just consider it as PIS, when it´s likely not the case.

 

[Kepekley23]

Sharp objects do damage because they have nearly no width closer to the tip, only thickness, meaning their surface area is neglibible, meaning the pressure doesn't get distributed throughout a large area. It will all be concentrated on a specific point in your skin, so it carves through it like a knife through butter.

Blunt objects have bigger surface areas and as such the pressure is distributed evenly throughout the tip.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Are you going to tell me that if a 9-B attemped to stab a tier 7, the knife would just bounce or break itself with no injury whatsoever to the tier 7?

Exactly.

 

[SchroKatze]

I can't stab a wall even if I use a knife because I don't have enough strength to do that. Unless you want to argue that a hammer can ignore durability too because it allows a human to brute force their way through a wall that a knife can't even scratch.

 

[Kepekley23]

However, the OP does have a point that sharp objects should do more damage to those in the same tier/not far from it. So a 40 megaton knife should carve through a 40-50 megaton guy just as easily as a 10-A knife carves through the average human.

 

[SchroKatze]

However, the OP does have a point that sharp objects should do more damage to those in the same tier. So a 40 megaton knife should carve through a 40-50 megaton guy just as easily as a 10-A knife carves through the average human.

This.

 

[Kaltias]

Sure, that's fine. But they don't negate durability against far superior opponents

 

[Bobsican]

Skin is a soft surface, so it´s obvious that we shouldn´t treat anything in tier 8 and above as if the thickness of their body is too hard to be scratched by conventional means in the first place.

Simply put, this depends more in the hardness of the AoE, rather than just AP to Dura gap.

 

[Kaltias]

Do you think that you can carve through someone's skin using a knife an 10^(-7) J of energy?

It depends on both

 

[Antoniofer]

In order to be able to pierce/cut something the tensile strength of the object attacked should be surpassed. For example, a boxxer with a force of 3400 N punch a human, the are of a punch is around 0.0025 m^2, that's mean that the pressure is around 1.36 MPa, it wouldn't be able to pierce skin cuz tensile strength of skin is like 18 MPa; so a knife would help.

 

[Bobsican]

Obviously, more AP helps it to be even better, but those sort of attacks simply can do more damage than say, fists or so.