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Nasuverse: Noble Phantasm Revisions

DemonGodMitchAubin said:
5 Kilometer long meteor and it gets evaporated by Spartacus and he'd also have to match the KE

Good to know
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i forgot something else. Sorry about that.

It will take it 3 minutes to cross 2km (2,000 meters) so 11kilometers per second??? im not good at math so double check me


 
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yeah, they say the force of Spartacus' noble Phantasm increeses depending on the force it's opposing, so it wouldn't scale to anything minus Jeanne's NP, which is already 6-A
 
Overlord775 said:
yeah, they say the force of Spartacus' noble Phantasm increeses depending on the force it's opposing, so it wouldn't scale to anything minus Jeanne's NP, which is already 6-A
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Well it wouldn't scale to Jeanne's NP either, because Spartacus didn't absorb the power of the Meteor during that clash, so that means Spartacus's NP doesn't have the same power every time and we can't scale any other usage of Spartacus's NP to the Meter
 
It's a nice feat, especially to show those who were arguing for Tier 7 NPs, but I don't think it's scaleable to anyone ''Normal'', given the circunstances. It's similar to how Tesla was going to blow up England with the mana fog or Ramesseum Tentyris boosted by Ozys Origin in that they are exception cases.
It should be mentioned as a ''upper limit'' of sorts for Spartacus , though.

And, at least in my opinion, I don't see how anyone can argue that Crying Warmonger, even in an case of exception like that, would be that much stronger than ''Top Tier NP'', like Excalibur, Ea or Grands for them to not fit logically in Tier 6.
 
I want to look over all feats and calcs as a whole before we even begin scaling NP's
 
Spartacus specifically did that feat in such a way that he would take maximum damage, so it could be used as the high end of his NP which is variable in power.
 
It is also stated in the same scene that Spartacus needs to be gravely injured for his NP to reach its maximum power. In other words impact with the meteor didn't insta-kill him (the material says that the best way to defeat him is to decisively kill him early).
Spartacus has a critical point for Crying Warmonger, which was attained in Apocrypha (it also included him getting directly shot by the Hanging Garden).
 
Regidian said:
So now we had to know, what Np can scall to that?
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Directly?
None, really.
It was a suicidal attack that destroyed his Spirit Origin, which technically acts as the soul of Servants, in a very specific situation. It stills serves the function of solidifying NPs as Tier 6 AP.
 
Even if this was a suicidal attack i don't think it's will be more powerful than the top Np one, but understand your logic
 
Regidian said:
Even if this was a suicidal attack i don't think it's will be more powerful than the top Np one, but understand your logic
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I mean, my personal opinion is that it really shouldn't be that much different from true Top-tier NPs in theory, but the truth is we have basically zero information on how it would fair in comparison to them.
The fact is that the Spirit Origin, which is the thing which ''limits'' the Servants abilities and mana capacity, was destroyed, which means that is the strongest Crying Warmonger could ever be and more - and it still is a Rank A NP, so only exceptions are truly higher ranked than it.
The problem with trying to use it to scale anyone to is that, even if assuming something like ''unlimited magical energy supply'', Saber Alter vs Herakles like, we have absolutely zero information on how 100% performance (unlimited supply) compares to >100% performance (Spartacus feat or Camelot's Ramesseum Tentyris, in which Ozymandias burned his Spirit Origin as magical energy for the NP)
And I would actually argue unlimited magical energy is kinda bullshit as a battle assumption, as Saber Alter vs Herakles, a.k.a. Mana Bursts flashier than normal Saber's Excalibur x10, fight clearly shows, and given that magical energy supply, at least in theory, is an important factor in a Servant fight, given that releasing a high cost ability weakens you.
 
I feel like the whole “spirit origins/servant class container limits servants abilities” is an extremely inconsistent thing tbh, does it limit servants? When they are Gods yes and overall sometimes, is that rule ignored quite often just like every rule in Nasuverse? Also yes.

Not saying it should be fully ignored but the strength, feats and statements about a servants abilities should also not simply be ignored due that rule (Not saying thats specifically what happened but since that thing was brought up thought id mention my thoughts on it).
 
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PsychoWarper said:
I feel like the whole “spirit origins/servant class container limits servants abilities” is an extremely inconsistent thing tbh, does it limit servants? When they are Gods yes and overall sometimes, is that rule ignored quite often just like every rule in Nasuverse? Also yes.

Not saying it should be fully ignored but the strength, feats and statements about a servants abilities should also not simply be ignored due that rule (Not saying thats specifically what happened but since that thing was brought up thought id mention my thoughts on it).
Click to expand...
It's sure that their limit servant since it limit their NP and skill (can only have NP correspond the class) and a limited number of skill, and we see the difference beetween the grand class self and their normal class self to show the difference with a better container
 
Im not saying theres no limit like it’s obvious with gods and it does do things sometimes but there are other times its ignored and servants have abilities/NPs higher than what youd think should be possible within a class container.
 
PsychoWarper said:
Im not saying theres no limit like it’s obvious with gods and it does do things sometimes but there are other times its ignored and servants have abilities/NPs higher than what youd think should be possible within a class container.
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Spirit Origin and Spiritual Core are two different things.
Spiritual Cores - When a Heroic Spirit emerges into this world, he first acquires a Spiritual Core. The Heroic Spirit then materialises as the body envelopes this Spiritual Core. In order to defeat a Heroic Spirit, one must inflict damage to the Spiritual Core. The Spiritual Core gradually diminishes as a result of massive magical energy expenditure or sustaining bodily damage. Under these adverse conditions, the Heroic Spirit’s expenditure of magical energy will escalate, and should damaged be inflicted through powerful magical energy, curse, or Noble Phantasm, the Spiritual Core will be destroyed, and the Heroic Spirit will no long be able to remain materialised. The heart and head are connected directly to the Spiritual Core, thus they are the weaknesses of Heroic Spirits. Sustaining damage at these locations will significantly weaken the Spiritual Core.
Spirit Origin - Saint Graph, basically a temporary soul, that has the personality and memories, and does the ''decision making''. The quality of the Saint Graph defines the limits of the Servant, and is affected by Master's potential especially as far as Magical Energy capacity goes. Basically, the Spiritual Core is the ''thing that has form'' and the Spirit Origin is the ''power'' that fills that form.

The Class Container, by itself, isn't cheap in any way. The Spirit Origin that fills said Class is the ''cheap'' part, at least when compared to what it could be (Grand)

Heroic Spirits by themselves are only power. They lack the concept of a body/form that's necessary for them to be summoned as Servants. The Class is that ''FORM'' in very broad terms. Now, if the form is filled with dirt or filled with iron, to use ''examples'', that's another story.
 
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I wont deny that compared to a Grand servant even the most broken servants are definitely more limited.

Nor will I deny that theres alot of variation in Servants and what they can do due to various circumstances.
 
Screenshot_20201126-174339_FateGO.jpg
 
Yes, because the assumption of 5km width is from when Da Vinci was examining the Great Wall. So unless the meteor was a piece of the Great Wall, there is no reason to assume it is 5km
 
Apeironaxim said:
Yes, because the assumption of 5km width is from when Da Vinci was examining the Great Wall. So unless the meteor was a piece of the Great Wall, there is no reason to assume it is 5km
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Examine what from Great wall? (I'm jp player so not remember much)
 
what evidence is there that it was piece from the great wall. and what evidence is there that we shouldn't trust Chaldea's equipment or da vinci?
 
The Great Wall is meant to be a defense, against "enemies from the stars" as QSH says iirc, so it can easily be said he just uses the Great Wall to yeet giant rocks, instead of dismantling/detaching pieces of the Great Wall itself

QSH also says he fired a payload from the Great Wall, which would also imply the Great Wall is firing these things, and he's not just breaking parts of his defense system off
 
Not fired but released, i think it why the assumption is that it (great wall) release part of itself, well so now don't know
 
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