Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

[LehenDuo]

I did
Anyway.....i wonder why Riyo still worked with FGO ever since the atrocity of Riyo collab 2022? Even Super Bunyan is the most unwanted and disliked servant, her revenue is even the lowest among all of the banners in this year

IIRC, the biggest problem was how much of a dick Bunyan was in the event, more than anything
I mean... she is such a dislikeable character that it should be actually praised. You really feel disgust for her character reading the event lore...

Someone wrote about it in Space Battles, actually
Post here

As far as writting goes, it is really good prose, actually. But it is the type of writting that feels bad to read, because it's very human and instead of showing someone transcending their limitations as a person shows someone that is overwhelmed by their limitations as a person. It's a tragedy, in a way.
Bunyan is a decent servant, but ST Busters are already saturated, and Alter Egos aren't all that liked as a class to begin with.

Riyo isn't the problem at all here. If anything, if he was the one who had the idea for the script and wrote it, he did a damn good job.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

IIRC, the biggest problem was how much of a dick Bunyan was in the event, more than anything
I mean... she is such a dislikeable character that it should be actually praised. You really feel disgust for her character reading the event lore...

Someone wrote about it in Space Battles, actually
Post here

As far as writting goes, it is really good prose, actually. But it is the type of writting that feels bad to read, because it's very human and instead of showing someone transcending their limitations as a person shows someone that is overwhelmed by their limitations as a person. It's a tragedy, in a way.
Bunyan is a decent servant, but ST Busters are already saturated, and Alter Egos aren't all that liked as a class to begin with.

Riyo isn't the problem at all here. If anything, if he was the one who had the idea for the script and wrote it, he did a damn good job.

Virgin super bunyan vs chad paul bunyan

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

a

Can you give me sau- i mean example?

ask lehenduo

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

I mean, counterarguments looks not bad, and no one answers them all. So maybe it can be downgraded crt in the future if it needs to be discussed more properly.

No one answers because it's just general discussion and QnA. People only care if it's content revision.

You know how many people have tried to downgrade Nasuverse with the same argument as above? they all fail because they don't know how the tiering system works.

 

[LehenDuo]

You know how many people have tried to downgrade Nasuverse with the same argument as above? they all fail because they don't know how the tiering system works.

Probably the same number of people that have actually read the Visual Novel before claiming they know something about the verse. /s
But really, the problem stems from the tiering itself, as R>F doesn't have any internal logic to stand upon. It is a made up thing that can be twisted to fit whatever headcanon you make...

Sorry, but the CRTs for Nasuverse are bad. To interpret the book analogy to mean R/F is so outside anything close to a "sound reading" of the concept in verse that it's not anything surprising most people laugh at it when they are told that. The problem in part may begin with they not knowing that this analogy is used many times elsewhere. I bet nerve circuits are a thing for those that did such interpretation... (not the Shirou stupid mistake or Roa in TsukiRE nerve circuits, but the all circuits = nerves BS)

And that is the opinion of the majority even in Beast Lair or of all native japanese fans I talked with, not a personal one.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Probably the same number of people that have actually read the Visual Novel before claiming they know something about the verse. /s
But really, the problem stems from the tiering itself, as R>F doesn't have any internal logic to stand upon. It is a made up thing that can be twisted to fit whatever headcanon you make...

Sorry, but the CRTs for Nasuverse are bad. To interpret the book analogy to mean R/F is so outside anything close to a "sound reading" of the concept in verse that it's not anything surprising most people laugh at it when they are told that. The problem in part may begin with they not knowing that this analogy is used many times elsewhere. I bet nerve circuits are a thing for those that did such interpretation... (not the Shirou stupid mistake or Roa in TsukiRE nerve circuits, but the all circuits = nerves BS)

And that is the opinion of the majority even in Beast Lair or of all native japanese fans I talked with, not a personal one.

You know that R>F is not the only requirement for higher dimension right? Likewise in Nasu, R>F is just something to describe the superiority of higher dimension over lower dimension, it doesn't have to be said "you are fiction and I am the author, I have a higher dimension so a fictional character like you can't hurt me" That's cringe actually. Nasu has many descriptions of higher dimensions, whether it's physics or philosophy. The Universe of Record is only one of them, the difference in perspective of time is only one of the benefits of higher dimension, it still has superiority of course.

Not that bad, just a few.

As well as those that support higher dimension superiority. Even people who don't follow vsb, and have extensive knowledge about Nasuverse believe that the higher dimension in Nasu is the addition of the direction and spatial axis that shows its superiority over the lower one.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

yeah it's going to be endless. something like this should be resolved in the content revision

 

[LehenDuo]

You know that R>F is not the only requirement for higher dimension right? Likewise in Nasu, R>F is just something to describe the superiority of higher dimension over lower dimension, it doesn't have to be said "you are fiction and I am the author, I have a higher dimension so a fictional character like you can't hurt me" That's cringe actually. Nasu has many descriptions of higher dimensions, whether it's physics or philosophy. The Universe of Record is only one of them, the difference in perspective of time is only one of the benefits of higher dimension, it still has superiority of course.

Sorry, but the fact you say this kinda proves my point that you don't understand the concept.
People do understand what you are saying about the "difference in quality" that makes one as if Rank EX in existence to the other, using Nasuverse terms, but the fact is that it's not what is happening there...

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

You know what?
Screw Nasu for creating such confusing cosmology, i mean dude, universe inside a planet inside true universe.
How the hell did they manage to reach 1-c? Cosmology of a single planet(earth) Texture, etc.
It is make no sense if i think much about it.
R>F but character are confined in a single PLANET SIZED UNIVERSE OR UNIVERSE SIZED PLANET

 

[LehenDuo]

You know what?
Screw Nasu for creating such confusing cosmology, i mean dude, universe inside a planet inside true universe.
How the hell did they manage to reach 1-c? Cosmology of a single planet(earth) Texture, etc.
It is make no sense if i think much about it.
R>F but character are confined in a single PLANET SIZED UNIVERSE OR UNIVERSE SIZED PLANET

Most confusions are there because people don't understand the thing in the first place (and that's not entirely their fault, as there's no official translation for most of the work and the FGO localization is... whatever it is), then try to explain it. The enormous amount of lore written doesn't help though.

The language barrier for Nasuverse is the single most disrupting thing in trying to understand the verse. But even without that, it's not simple. The following phrase should illustrate the problem:

"Your thaumaturgical energy resource (魔力資源, maryoku shigen) is as Spatial Thaumaturgical Energy Claim Index (空間魔力占有値, kuukan maryoku senyuu chi, probably "index of claim that can be asserted over mana within a given space"), what interprets the Thaumaturgical Element (魔素, maso, in the Yoko Taro sense) as quanta (量子, ryoushi) ... Quantum Pieces, is it?"

This line has been dropped by Morgan in Avalon, the 6th Lostbelt. Though you can "imagine" the meaning, "Claim Index" has never been mentioned before that I know of, Magical Element the same (though "so"/素 has been used in the Element/Factor or Component explanation), etc. Most elements can only be understood if you basically compare and contrast with the entirety of the lore that has been written before, and even then, it still not really explain what the **** exactly it is.

The verse only stands if you also know what some things are refering to, to begin with, as it is a World that is the same as ours while not. VS Battle has that rule about requiring the claim to be in the canon of the verse that basically means it's impossible to understand the Root properly, for example. Some references are also very obscure or specific, so unless you know about occultism or "real world magic" for example, you probably never heard of them... Some people think "Mystery" is called like that because it is somehow a definite thing that is hidden, for example. This is just one of the misconceptions that can rapidly snowball into non-sense.

There are deep things that dess up as shallow things like Nasuverse, and shallow things that dress up as shallow. Confusing one for the other will make them non-sensical.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Most confusions are there because people don't understand the thing in the first place (and that's not entirely their fault, as there's no official translation for most of the work and the FGO localization is... whatever it is), then try to explain it. The enormous amount of lore written doesn't help though.

The language barrier for Nasuverse is the single most disrupting thing in trying to understand the verse. But even without that, it's not simple. The following phrase should illustrate the problem:

This line has been dropped by Morgan in Avalon, the 6th Lostbelt. Though you can "imagine" the meaning, "Claim Index" has never been mentioned before that I know of, Magical Element the same (though "so"/素 has been used in the Element/Factor or Component explanation), etc. Most elements can only be understood if you basically compare and contrast with the entirety of the lore that has been written before, and even then, it still not really explain what the **** exactly it is.

The verse only stands if you also know what some things are refering to, to begin with, as it is a World that is the same as ours while not. VS Battle has that rule about requiring the claim to be in the canon of the verse that basically means it's impossible to understand the Root properly, for example. Some references are also very obscure or specific, so unless you know about occultism or "real world magic" for example, you probably never heard of them... Some people think "Mystery" is called like that because it is somehow a definite thing that is hidden, for example. This is just one of the misconceptions that can rapidly snowball into non-sense.

There are deep things that dess up as shallow things like Nasuverse, and shallow things that dress up as shallow. Confusing one for the other will make them non-sensical.

And that my friend, thank you for participating in my TED talk about "Nasuverse and it's cosmology misconception because of a FUC**NG LANGUAGE BARRIER(and the laziness of VS battler)"
Dont be mad okay! I'm just joking.

 

[LehenDuo]

And that my friend, thank you for participating in my TED talk about "Nasuverse and it's cosmology misconception because of a FUC**NG LANGUAGE BARRIER(and the laziness of VS battler)"
Dont be mad okay! I'm just joking.

Nasu himself has said MULTIPLE times that he doesn't think the novels/etc are translateable without "corrupting" their meaning. It's not anything new.
Not a stretch to say that FGO was only localized because he didn't had much of a say.

 

[Migue79]

I love powerscaling the Nasuverse.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

I love powerscaling the Nasuverse.

LOVE is an UNDERSTATEMENT.
IT is faith.

 

[Ubdon]

No one answers because it's just general discussion and QnA. People only care if it's content revision.

QnA can easily became content revision

 

[Ubdon]

You know what?
Screw Nasu for creating such confusing cosmology, i mean dude, universe inside a planet inside true universe.
How the hell did they manage to reach 1-c? Cosmology of a single planet(earth) Texture, etc.
It is make no sense if i think much about it.
R>F but character are confined in a single PLANET SIZED UNIVERSE OR UNIVERSE SIZED PLANET

I mean weird looking cosmology not really a problem.

 

[LehenDuo]

LOVE is an UNDERSTATEMENT.
IT is faith.

That's why it is so powerful
If no one had faith in it, it would be demoted in rank

 

[Ubdon]

That's why it is so powerful
If no one had faith in it, it would be demoted in rank

Fate not really easy to understand, so we can't judge anyone.

Anyway, looks like someone need to make downgrate crt, so this can be discussed/debated. maybe me on next week but idk.

After this, speed chain and new nep types ig.

 

[LehenDuo]

Fate not really easy to understand, so we can't judge anyone.

Anyway, looks like someone need to make downgrate crt, so this can be discussed/debated. maybe me on next week but idk.

After this, speed chain and new nep types ig.

I was making a joke in-verse referencing kamigami ("true gods")/divine spirits, but guess it was a bad one haha

 

[Migue79]

Well, good thing I powerscale this verse off-site. So I’ll probs not be participating much regardless of whether the contentions are legit or not.

Anyways, to change topic… I’m bummed out that my luck has been real shit as of lately in the gacha rolls. No MHXX has come to me. Just a bunch of Boudica’s & Lu Bu’s. I guess I’ll take the Imaginary Element CE’s as consolidation. Although I wonder why they’re removing it in the first place.

 

[LehenDuo]

Well, good thing I powerscale this verse off-site. So I’ll probs not be participating much regardless of whether the contentions are legit or not.

Anyways, to change topic… I’m bummed out that my luck has been real shit as of lately in the gacha rolls. No MHXX has come to me. Just a bunch of Boudica’s & Lu Bu’s. I guess I’ll take the Imaginary Element CE’s as consolidation. Although I wonder why they’re removing it in the first place.

I'm trying to get some quartz out of intrludes/quests to roll for Nemo in JP, but so far also no luck =/

 

[Violatas]

Fate not really easy to understand, so we can't judge anyone.

Anyway, looks like someone need to make downgrate crt, so this can be discussed/debated. maybe me on next week but idk.

After this, speed chain and new nep types ig.

Honestly there's quite a bit of Nasuverse stuff here that needs revisions on this site.

Moreso in regards to non Fate stuff since from a glance around, it's pretty clear to me that Nasu's other franchises here are overlooked.
Which yeah I get Fate is obviously the most popular part of Nasuverse but still

 

[Paul_Frank]

I remember someone, probably Comun of fallacies even, doing a translation themselves and comparing to this image... It basically is mirrormoon level bullshit, this has been called out multiple times also. But anyway, the post I linked is a wall of text to even try to explain what the **** Record and Observation even means, and they do talk about exactly what you are talking. Even Moon Cell isn't a proper "standard" Universe of Record, because it exists as an Adjacent Worlds Simulator.

Provides no alternate TL
Just says Falla or Comun did one and it's better
Sasuga

Fallacies, Ms. "I make fake tls than fake raws to back the tls." Ms. "I literally add 4 lines into a tl specifically to downplay Musashi because I like my version better"

Truly the savior of TLs and the one we should discard any other tls for, I kneel Falla-sama

You could even question if this described ability (retroactively making things be as she wants, which isn't all that surprising, because Animusphere magecraft does something similar at least in the time aspect) isn't her NP, to begin with, instead of a characteristic of beings of Record. (Which "mysteriously" makes all contradictions go away...)

The TL literally says what it is explicitly, there's no room for these weird other interpretations kek. It's pretty explict in repeating over 10 times, that seeing the timeline like that and being able to affect it all like that is just the perspective of a higher d being. Like even if you try and cope it away using any amount of headcanon, and say "but BB isn't higher D", the scene explicitly says thats what higher dimensionality is like anyway, so the other higher d stuff would still count

But I do remember you that BB was defeated in the end... So the so to say fiction was stronger than reality, or in Nasu-way, the oscillations caled hope overcame the outcome of the process so established. Or, maybe, that such distinction doesn't exist.

Or, or, or right. If you actually played or read CCC, you might remember that we got power on her level, our servant just reached her level with the cheat powerups, there were very explict powerups to reach that level it's a crazy idea I know.

The people who actually translated half F/GO text (instead as freestyling it and calling it a localization as in the EN version of the game) and read the originals always speak of this topic with doubt. I find it funny someone using a cheap translation can have so much certainty. In the end, trying to force Nasuverse into a clearly Comics based system in one aspect that is so metaphysical that you could just say it's pure ideology without any concrete information actually being discussed, similarly to how it happens in basically all the others oriental verses, leads to stupid.

Nothing at all said here is true rip. The EN localization is unironically better than the FGO fan tl's the majority of the time nowadays, not only have they gotten better, but people realized that some tls (like Fallacies) are just not trustworthy.

The idea that most people who can read Japanese disagree with higher d stuff is also just wrong, they tend to, on average, agree with higher d, because get this, it's explicitly said repeatedly. Of course I assume you're talking about Falla only here or something, in which case kek

And this weird idea that this is so metaphysical it's pure ideology and doesn't have enough info to be used as tier 1 is laughably bad, because they just outright say it is, in no uncertain terms, and it just objectively counts for the tier system. So your issue really lies with the tiering system at this point, so all I can say there is cope.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

At this point we should make a topic ban regarding downgrading Nasuverse tier 1 stuff if you ask me

 

[John985]

There's already a talk about topic ban about that.

 

[Migue79]

Fallacies, Ms. "I make fake tls than fake raws to back the tls." Ms. "I literally add 4 lines into a tl specifically to downplay Musashi because I like my version better"

Do they seriously do this?

 

[Paul_Frank]

Do they seriously do this?

Yep, the most well known incident of her doing that is Musashi stuff

Created this thing where luck resists her powers, and also she has to erase herself to use Zero on strong opponents which is why she died against Chaos, etc

 

[Ethan37]

any proof about this? about falla is used to made his/her own tls about what She/ likes?

Fallacies, Ms. "I make fake tls than fake raws to back the tls." Ms. "I literally add 4 lines into a tl specifically to downplay Musashi because I like my version better"

 

[LehenDuo]

Fallacies, Ms. "I make fake tls than fake raws to back the tls." Ms. "I literally add 4 lines into a tl specifically to downplay Musashi because I like my version better"

Nothing at all said here is true rip. The EN localization is unironically better than the FGO fan tl's the majority of the time nowadays, not only have they gotten better, but people realized that some tls (like Fallacies) are just not trustworthy.

The idea that most people who can read Japanese disagree with higher d stuff is also just wrong, they tend to, on average, agree with higher d, because get this, it's explicitly said repeatedly. Of course I assume you're talking about Falla only here or something, in which case kek

Yeah... I can only deal with so much delusion, sorry... The RAWs are almost always provided, you can literally fact check.

The TL literally says what it is explicitly, there's no room for these weird other interpretations kek. It's pretty explict in repeating over 10 times, that seeing the timeline like that and being able to affect it all like that is just the perspective of a higher d being. Like even if you try and cope it away using any amount of headcanon, and say "but BB isn't higher D", the scene explicitly says thats what higher dimensionality is like anyway, so the other higher d stuff would still count

The only thing clear is that you are saying the explicit description of BBs CCC is actually a Universe of Observation thing while also saying Universe of Observation actually has anything to do with higher dimensionality... Which is wrong twofold.

Or, or, or right. If you actually played or read CCC, you might remember that we got power on her level, our servant just reached her level with the cheat powerups, there were very explict powerups to reach that level it's a crazy idea I know.

Or or or... We actually had her NP deal with her NP, because if the NP wasn't somehow dealt with - you know, the NP that does all those things you are saying have to do with her now being Uni of Observation therefore higher D - she would finger snap and erase we from reality. Because, you know, that is kinda what CCC does....

Yep, the most well known incident of her doing that is Musashi stuff

Created this thing where luck resists her powers, and also she has to erase herself to use Zero on strong opponents which is why she died against Chaos, etc

I can safely bet my right kidney that wasn't how she said those things, but it suits your argument to distort it.

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

Yeah... I can only deal with so much delusion, sorry... The RAWs are almost always provided, you can literally fact check.

Said by the deluded who refuses to actually read the raws.

 

[LehenDuo]

Said by the deluded who refuses to actually read the raws.

When you say that, but probably doesn't know what a "switch" is, it makes your argument really shallow.

 

[Migue79]

Yep, the most well known incident of her doing that is Musashi stuff

Created this thing where luck resists her powers, and also she has to erase herself to use Zero on strong opponents which is why she died against Chaos, etc

Aaaaaaaaand... I got spoiled for LB5.2. Rats. Not your fault. I kind of asked for it here so don't worry about it.

Also, based as heck Touko PFP. Been watching the Garden of Sinners movies recently.

 

[LehenDuo]

Aaaaaaaaand... I got spoiled for LB5.2. Rats. Not your fault. I kind of asked for it here so don't worry about it.

The scene is still epic, so don't worry to much.

Also, based as heck Touko PFP. Been watching the Garden of Sinners movies recently.

Toko is a monster.
Not only basically ressurected two magecraft styles but is the one that is close to making 3rd magecraft.
She truly deserves the only Grand rank in normal works.

 

[Violatas]

Speaking of Touko

WHO HYPED FOR MAHOYO OFFICIAL ENGLISH TRANSLATION

 

[TypeOU]

When you say that, but probably doesn't know what a "switch" is, it makes your argument really shallow.

a.... kink?

 

[TypeOU]

She truly deserves the only Grand rank in normal works.

-Darnic has it too (in apo)

I don't think it's that great by itself tbf. Like, just Flat being able to make his spells on the spot was enough for him to become a brand according to touko.

 

[Ubdon]

Btw we reach 50 pages yey

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

When you say that, but probably doesn't know what a "switch" is, it makes your argument really shallow.

Incomprehensible response, thanks.

 

[LehenDuo]

-Darnic has it too (in apo)

I don't think it's that great by itself tbf. Like, just Flat being able to make his spells on the spot was enough for him to become a brand according to touko.

Darnic Grand rank in Apo is described in the materials as being "not real", honorary instead of being a recognition of his skills as being Grand-tier, though.

And Flat doing that is actually something that most magi couldn't even comprehend, so it really is a big feat. Most magi can't comprehend the idea of interacting with a spell while magical energy. Flat is a monster in the true, literal sense. No gonna spoil it if you haven't read strange fake.

But a fact technically isn't a spoiler, but illustrates this - Flat is the only magi known to date to LITERALLY create the spell formula itself on the spot, without any foundation. He has an understanding of magical energy "physics/mechanics" that is second to none, even Toko probably.

Incomprehensible response, thanks.

If you had actually read the RAWs you claim I haven't, you should know... It's like, from Fate original VN man.

 

[Migue79]

Honestly, I think she is hotter and rocks the look better than Makima.