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found this on tv tropes regarding abigail williams
As "Abigail Williams" was not a potent enough personage to ascend to the Throne of Heroes, the Abby in the Salem singularity possesses all of Williams' memories and is the "real" Abby in ways that count, but she's also an artificially-constructed Servant purpose-manifested by Räum, and in the Salem narrative that Räum has built and loops, she also fills the roles of several other witchcraft accusers. She's also designed to be the vessel for an Outer God capable of inflicting pain and death on all humans the world over, simultaneously, which the original Williams had no connection to at all.
As one might suspect and Circe confirms in the Salem epilogue, in truth "Abigail Williams" is a person and existence far too minor in inflection and importance to be recorded upon the Throne of Heroes; she's little more than a historical footnote (there's no clear written record of what even happened to her after 1692) and no one person involved in the Salem Witch Trials was that important in the grand sweep of human history and consciousness. The Abigail in the Salem singularity has all of Abigail Williams' memories and feels the guilt of her original actions in the historical trials, but she's an artificially constructed Servant vessel molded to be the host of an Outer God, and will disappear along with Salem upon its collapse... in theory. In actuality, because her connection to "Sut-Typhon" (Yog-Sothoth under a different name) has made her into the Silver Key, upon Räum's defeat she can freely depart Salem in The Gentleman's company and wander the cosmos, and the Chaldea summoning system will someday manage to produce another facsimile of this "Abigail", who exists beyond time and space in her own way.
so does this mean if DW wants to add more servants to the game but they are obscure historical figures. then they might have to be artificially constructed ones? (since they're not too important?)
The infinity is the chain of transcience of the bubbles that compose the World, so I don't see what you are saying...
This seems more like a complement to Universe of Observation/Record and how both can exist simultaneously, playing around with the concept of planck time, that is the ruby for "an instance", (therefore, referring to information/light speed and therefore observation/perception) and order/entropy/time. That part of Vol. 4 + the time structure should be understood w/ Kara no Kyoukai "metaphysical" topics to make much sense, specially the "drawing borders" part. (And Tsukihime RMK also goes on this a bit).
As much of Nasuverse, there are many references you could make from it, some saying they are just coincidence, some saying they fit the overall philosophy of the verse, that even though is definitely overshadows by "cute waifus", has been a constant work in process.
But, on a tangent - whenever anything about time is a topic in Nasuverse, I always remember about Philosopher's Stone and Time Crystals... The coincidence is so ******* bizarre I can't get aroung it in my head.
found this on tv tropes regarding abigail williams
As "Abigail Williams" was not a potent enough personage to ascend to the Throne of Heroes, the Abby in the Salem singularity possesses all of Williams' memories and is the "real" Abby in ways that count, but she's also an artificially-constructed Servant purpose-manifested by Räum, and in the Salem narrative that Räum has built and loops, she also fills the roles of several other witchcraft accusers. She's also designed to be the vessel for an Outer God capable of inflicting pain and death on all humans the world over, simultaneously, which the original Williams had no connection to at all.
As one might suspect and Circe confirms in the Salem epilogue, in truth "Abigail Williams" is a person and existence far too minor in inflection and importance to be recorded upon the Throne of Heroes; she's little more than a historical footnote (there's no clear written record of what even happened to her after 1692) and no one person involved in the Salem Witch Trials was that important in the grand sweep of human history and consciousness. The Abigail in the Salem singularity has all of Abigail Williams' memories and feels the guilt of her original actions in the historical trials, but she's an artificially constructed Servant vessel molded to be the host of an Outer God, and will disappear along with Salem upon its collapse... in theory. In actuality, because her connection to "Sut-Typhon" (Yog-Sothoth under a different name) has made her into the Silver Key, upon Räum's defeat she can freely depart Salem in The Gentleman's company and wander the cosmos, and the Chaldea summoning system will someday manage to produce another facsimile of this "Abigail", who exists beyond time and space in her own way.
so does this mean if DW wants to add more servants to the game but they are obscure historical figures. then they might have to be artificially constructed ones? (since they're not too important?)
Is it me or is post void musashi closer to matching 1-C character than other servants? It's somewhat explicitly stated that she's stronger than caenis, she fights ivan, says she could sacrifice herself to kill either castor or pollux etc...
Kinda, but not really? Avalon Lostbelt deals with this topic, so it's kind of a big spoiler.
About Abby, it's all in her profile. Abigail Williams, the human, was just a person like any other, without any feat that could generate an heroic figure out of her - in the same way it makes no sense for Taiga herself to be a Servant, it makes no sense for Abigail herself to be a Servant. Abigail the Servant was created by Raum.
Is it me or is post void musashi closer to matching 1-C character than other servants? It's somewhat explicitly stated that she's stronger than caenis, she fights ivan, says she could sacrifice herself to kill either castor or pollux etc...
Doubt she would have the means of actually damaging other 1-C characters. But, if there is any possible future in which she could win, Heavenly Eyes go OP
Kinda, but not really? Avalon Lostbelt deals with this topic, so it's kind of a big spoiler.
About Abby, it's all in her profile. Abigail Williams, the human, was just a person like any other, without any feat that could generate an heroic figure out of her - in the same way it makes no sense for Taiga herself to be a Servant, it makes no sense for Abigail herself to be a Servant. Abigail the Servant was created by Raum.
so how will servants continue to be created? (like will creation theoretically be forever assuming humanity can continue to exist?)
so will DW go the Raum path if they choose to make servants out of obscure figures? (i mean there's tons of historical figures out there in this world but a lot of them can be obscure so i'm wondering if they are going to take the raum path if that happens)
Doubt she would have the means of actually damaging other 1-C characters. But, if there is any possible future in which she could win, Heavenly Eyes go OP
Average 1-C is so much stronger and more haxed than Ivan it's not even funny. You could say the fact Musashi could ever win against him is a Plot Induced Stupidity also (as originally she couldn't see any future she would ever possibly win), given the nature of Heavenly Eyes.
Think Shirou vs Gilgamesh. Yeah, Shirou won vs Gilgamesh in FSN, but Nasu has himself said that this alone is like a chain of miracles stacked together for it to even be a possibility and that Shirou lost like a bitch in all other possibilities.
Average 1-C is so much stronger and more haxed than Ivan it's not even funny. You could say the fact Musashi could ever win against him is a Plot Induced Stupidity also (as originally she couldn't see any future she would ever possibly win), given the nature of Heavenly Eyes.
Think Shirou vs Gilgamesh. Yeah, Shirou won vs Gilgamesh in FSN, but Nasu has himself said that this alone is like a chain of miracles stacked together for it to even be a possibility and that Shirou lost like a bitch in all other possibilities.
Search for the Avalon translations, it's just too much to write. The LB had more text than the LotR one book edition if I remember correctly, so... it's just too much to even make a summary,
Welll... they could, but given how many other things they are able to do, like what they did with fake Gogh, why would they?
Search for the Avalon translations, it's just too much to write. The LB had more text than the LotR one book edition if I remember correctly, so... it's just too much to even make a summary,
Welll... they could, but given how many other things they are able to do, like what they did with fake Gogh, why would they?
Search for the Avalon translations, it's just too much to write. The LB had more text than the LotR one book edition if I remember correctly, so... it's just too much to even make a summary,
Welll... they could, but given how many other things they are able to do, like what they did with fake Gogh, why would they?
Average 1-C is so much stronger and more haxed than Ivan it's not even funny. You could say the fact Musashi could ever win against him is a Plot Induced Stupidity also (as originally she couldn't see any future she would ever possibly win), given the nature of Heavenly Eyes.
Think Shirou vs Gilgamesh. Yeah, Shirou won vs Gilgamesh in FSN, but Nasu has himself said that this alone is like a chain of miracles stacked together for it to even be a possibility and that Shirou lost like a bitch in all other possibilities.
Kinda, but not really? Avalon Lostbelt deals with this topic, so it's kind of a big spoiler.
About Abby, it's all in her profile. Abigail Williams, the human, was just a person like any other, without any feat that could generate an heroic figure out of her - in the same way it makes no sense for Taiga herself to be a Servant, it makes no sense for Abigail herself to be a Servant. Abigail the Servant was created by Raum.
Doubt she would have the means of actually damaging other 1-C characters. But, if there is any possible future in which she could win, Heavenly Eyes go OP
As long as there is Humanity (and this isn't the same as to say as long as there are humans) it seems there will be Heroic Spirits. New HS seem to be becoming sparse as Humanity has been becoming homogenous, and HS arecreated from those who are able to set themselves apart.
But, the plot that is presented to us in Lostbelt is the deformation of humanity. In Avalon, the Lostbelt Depth (therefore, the amount of "History" lost) goes so far way back that Humanity never began, even though there are humans.
As long as there is Humanity (and this isn't the same as to say as long as there are humans) it seems there will be Heroic Spirits. New HS seem to be becoming sparse as Humanity has been becoming homogenous, and HS arecreated from those who are able to set themselves apart.
But, the plot that is presented to us in Lostbelt is the deformation of humanity. In Avalon, the Lostbelt Depth (therefore, the amount of "History" lost) goes so far way back that Humanity never began, even though there are humans.
they will always exist even if the amount produced is small.
i like that lehen because it would be boring if (in-universe they stopped making servants)
Out of universe (technically in the real world we might run out of servants since it will take quite a while (very long time) in order to use 21st century characters)
however in-universe (you can say they can use any servant in the future (i'm not saying masters summoning futuristic servants. i'm saying the masters of the future can use any servant from the 21st century or further) it just can't be shown because of political reasons in the real world))
