Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Nasuverse definitely has opps

Should we just bother nasu and force him to say "Nasuverse is outerversal in vs battle wiki" so that people can stop saying it's a wank everytime there's some argument for it being 1-A

nasu is secretly a powerscaler
but seriously speaking, most people disagree with tiering fate/Go really high cause all the amazing op feats in fate is accompanied by a lot of shit feats even for the top tiers. Fate EXTRA is easily consistent with multiversal shit so i rarely see people trying to debunk fate extra.

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

tbh personally, I think that limiting the definition that is given directly in the game and dialogues is stupid. Nasu knows quite well what spatial dimensions are and how to play with them. He literally does this by pointing out the nature of Yog-Sothoth as something that transcends the very concept of dimensions ("is all possible dimensions; Enshrined outside of the Universe and borders all possible dimensions"). The situation is similar with a hypercube, which by definition is an object with the number of dimensions that can be set by any number, even infinite-dimensional, etc.

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

And, well, if we are talking 'bout the cosmology, then we need to understand that Root exists as basement of the Universe (aka "Our World") and Nasu literally take another verse (Cthulhu Mythos) and uses this verse and it's characters that "do not belong to our world".

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

Nasu likes to do dirt without detailed explanations, because he likes it himself (see Takashi's words). Therefore, to look for a detailed and sacred meaning in what Nasu writes is nonsense, in my opinion. Confirmation of this is Miyamoto Musashi, which, as it were, reached the Root (even the symbols for the designation are the same and the consequences also correspond to this), but Nasu made a retcon that it was not the Root, but something else.

 

[Maxeez]

tbh personally, I think that limiting the definition that is given directly in the game and dialogues is stupid. Nasu knows quite well what spatial dimensions are and how to play with them. He literally does this by pointing out the nature of Yog-Sothoth as something that transcends the very concept of dimensions ("is all possible dimensions; Enshrined outside of the Universe and borders all possible dimensions"). The situation is similar with a hypercube, which by definition is an object with the number of dimensions that can be set by any number, even infinite-dimensional, etc.

I mean, yeah, and that’s even more true when you just consider the concept of a Hypercube outside of the context of Koyanska’s statement.

Confirmation of this is Miyamoto Musashi, which, as it were, reached the Root (even the symbols for the designation are the same and the consequences also correspond to this), but Nasu made a retcon that it was not the Root, but something else.

I don’t think this is a very good example because he specifically explained it was not his intention, but rather the exploration of a specific Buddhist concept.

 

[Theoretical_Toxic19]

Nasu likes to do dirt without detailed explanations, because he likes it himself (see Takashi's words)

Makes the verse less cringe so nasu W

nasu is secretly a powerscaler
but seriously speaking, most people disagree with tiering fate/Go really high cause all the amazing op feats in fate is accompanied by a lot of shit feats even for the top tiers. Fate EXTRA is easily consistent with multiversal shit so i rarely see people trying to debunk fate extra.

Fgo towards the end has better feats tho

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

He literally does this by pointing out the nature of Yog-Sothoth as something that transcends the very concept of dimensions ("is all possible dimensions; Enshrined outside of the Universe and borders all possible dimensions").

Again, this is a mistranslation and the correct translation is "every space" or "all spaces" far less impressive than "every possible dimension".

 

[Theoretical_Toxic19]

Again, this is a mistranslation and the correct translation is "every space" or "all spaces" far less impressive than "every possible dimension".

What makes it less impressive? It's the same shit every denotes for all so why would all be more impressive than every?

"Every possible world"="all possible worlds"

"Every possible dimension"="all possible dimensions"

The mistranslation card doesn't work here unfortunately lol.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

What makes it less impressive? It's the same shit every denotes for all so why would all be more impressive than every?

"Every possible world"="all possible worlds"

"Every possible dimension"="all possible dimensions"

The mistranslation card doesn't work here unfortunately lol.

I have no idea what you are saying.. Are you putting words in my mouth? I'm saying it says "every space" or "all spaces" not "every/all possible dimensions". "every/all possible dimensions" imply the existence of well every possible dimension. The word "possible" and "dimension" are absent from the original scan. Although space refers to spatial dimensions the fact that it isnt "every/all possible" does make it FAR LESS impressive.

 

[Theoretical_Toxic19]

than "every possible dimension".

Ohh I misread this

I have no idea what you are saying.. Are you putting words in my mouth? I'm saying it says "every space" or "all spaces" not "every/all possible dimensions". "every/all possible dimensions" imply the existence of well every possible dimension. The word "possible" and "dimension" are absent from the original scan. Although space refers to spatial dimensions the fact that it isnt "every/all possible" does make it FAR LESS impressive.

Jesus Christ they are 2D characters why are you so tense, I doubt even if it said all possible it would make a difference you'd just say nlf correct? So why is it suddenly impressive now if it's just nlf

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Ohh I misread this

hey btw i have a question regarding negative theology. do you mind if i come for to personal conversation?

Jesus Christ they are 2D characters why are you so tense, I doubt even if it said all possible it would make a difference you'd just say nlf correct? So why is it suddenly impressive now if it's just nlf

transcendence over all possible dimensions should be low 1-A imo. It is like transcending the concept of dimensions

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Ohh I misread this

Jesus Christ they are 2D characters why are you so tense, I doubt even if it said all possible it would make a difference you'd just say nlf correct? So why is it suddenly impressive now if it's just nlf

If it legitimately said all possible and referred to literally all possible dimensions and also not in context of it referring to a few then I'd be inclined to agree with that being high 1-B and those above low 1-A.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

If it legitimately said all possible and referred to literally all possible dimensions and also not in context of it referring to a few then I'd be inclined to agree with that being high 1-B and those above low 1-A.

Although statements like "all possible" might not be as high once or if low 1-A CRT passes.

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

I have no idea what you are saying.. Are you putting words in my mouth? I'm saying it says "every space" or "all spaces" not "every/all possible dimensions". "every/all possible dimensions" imply the existence of well every possible dimension. The word "possible" and "dimension" are absent from the original scan. Although space refers to spatial dimensions the fact that it isnt "every/all possible" does make it FAR LESS impressive.

Actually, "all space" and "every space" means about the same shit as "every dimension", because dimensions are just a part of space and, therefore, if a Yog is adjacent to each space and we take into account that there are also mental spaces, then, in essence, this does not change absolutely anything.

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

and, well, let's take into account that "all possible dimensions" is the official canonical translation of Lavinia's words.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

and, well, let's take into account that "all possible dimensions" is the official canonical translation of Lavinia's words.

An official translation does not make a mistranslation canon.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

An official translation does not make a mistranslation canon.

What original language says takes priority.

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

An official translation does not make a mistranslation canon.

But about the canon, it's certainly not up to people who sit on the forum to decide. It's up to those who work on TYPE-MOON and translate the FGO

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

An official translation does not make a mistranslation canon.

And I would also like to remind you that True Emptiness is also space. So, judging by your translation, the Yog-Sothoth should include this space and also adjoin it.

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

I think that disputes about whether the translation is canon should not concern official sources, since such disputes on VSBattles on the topic of the Nasuverse appeared due to fan translations of old novels.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

I think that disputes about whether the translation is canon should not concern official sources, since such disputes on VSBattles on the topic of the Nasuverse appeared due to fan translations of old novels.

Verses get downgraded due to incorrect official translations all the time.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

And I would also like to remind you that True Emptiness is also space. So, judging by your translation, the Yog-Sothoth should include this space and also adjoin it.

So True Emptiness is spatial? Damn RIP 1-A.

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

So True Emptiness is spatial? Damn RIP 1-A.

Wait, I was wrong. This word means "place", not "space"

 

[Chasekilleen]

and, well, let's take into account that "all possible dimensions" is the official canonical translation of Lavinia's words.

Tbh, I have never read a Japanese book where it describes 空間 as dimensions.

六つの扉は、上下、左右、前後の、
あらゆる空間を、意味して、いる。

それでいながら、あらゆる空間に隣り合い、
全てと、つながっている。

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

Tbh, I have never read a Japanese book where it describes 空間 as dimensions.

DeepL translates this as "space". Well then, for his 1-C it doesn't really matter

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

So i have a strong feeling that the other two servants beside Bhima in Ordeal Call are likely going to be Cagliostro and Lilith-Sion, thought?

 

[Theoretical_Toxic19]

If it legitimately said all possible and referred to literally all possible dimensions and also not in context of it referring to a few then I'd be inclined to agree with that being high 1-B and those above low 1-A.

Can you give me an example of a statement saying all possible dimensions not referring to all possible dimensions if it just says all possible dimensions and nothing outside of that? After doin that give me an example of a statement saying all possible dimensions that "legitimately" refers to all possible dimensions and explain the difference.

So True Emptiness is spatial? Damn RIP 1-A.

Things above 1-A can be spatial tho? Something aspatial can be aspatial and still be space but a space of nothing lacking spatial properties.

 

[Theoretical_Toxic19]

hey btw i have a question regarding negative theology. do you mind if i come for to personal conversation?

Sure

transcendence over all possible dimensions should be low 1-A imo. It is like transcending the concept of dimensions

Non of that is low 1-A now unfortunately in this site

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Can you give me an example of a statement saying all possible dimensions not referring to all possible dimensions if it just says all possible dimensions and nothing outside of that? After doin that give me an example of a statement saying all possible dimensions that "legitimately" refers to all possible dimensions and explain the difference.

Things above 1-A can be spatial tho? Something aspatial can be aspatial and still be space but a space of nothing lacking spatial properties.

But if the root is spatial then it's not entirely above concept of space which would be an antifeat to the tier achieved via apophasis. Nitpicking "space" I will agree is kinda semantics though.

For the first point. I meant how the translated text in FGO is referring to a specific amount of dimensions/spaces so all possible dimensions within the universe are those spaces.

 

[Tarang123]

Actually, "all space" and "every space" means about the same shit as "every dimension", because dimensions are just a part of space and, therefore, if a Yog is adjacent to each space and we take into account that there are also mental spaces, then, in essence, this does not change absolutely anything.

Well no it doesn't cause it could apply to alternate worlds as well, a multiverse, which is made up of separate space-time continuums. So it therefore becomes far more context-based. Also, even statements of "all possible dimensions" would likely still need context to prove that it's referring to higher dimensions, removing the fact that it's likely a mistranslation

 

[Tarang123]

Wait, I was wrong. This word means "place", not "space"

That's also space...

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Ultima disagreed on the re-evaluation thread, yeah i guess we are almost there
Funnily enough, we already have 4 staffs disagree on that thread (Crimson, Migue, Tlmbrg, and now Ultima), which is enough for a rejection

But i feel rushing for the closure isn't a good idea so we'll how things goes there

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Ultima disagreed on the re-evaluation thread, yeah i guess we are almost there
Funnily enough, we already have 4 staffs disagree on that thread (Crimson, Migue, Tlmbrg, and now Ultima), which is enough for a rejection

But i feel rushing for the closure isn't a good idea so we'll how things goes there

2* It's actually pretty evenly split as of now. Calc member and content mod votes aren't considered staff votes.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

2* It's actually pretty evenly split as of now. Calc member and content mod votes aren't considered staff votes.

They were actually iirc

 

[Chasekilleen]

They were actually iirc

Are you sure? The discussion rule doesn't mention that iirc.

In order to ensure that all revisions are thoroughly reviewed and approved, it is necessary for a minimum of two staff members to sign off on any proposed changes. The concluding evaluations must be handled by Thread Moderators, Administrators, and Bureaucrats, who should make an effort to base their evaluations on valid arguments, not personal opinions.

The review and approval of content revisions that affect tiers 1 and 0 or that are highly controversial should be conducted by a larger number of staff members in order to ensure that all relevant parties are aware of and agree with the proposed changes. It is essential that these revisions are evaluated by staff members who possess a reasonable level of genuine understanding and expertise in these areas in order to maintain the accuracy and quality of the revised material.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Are you sure? The discussion rule doesn't mention that iirc.

Tbh i feel a revision for allowing all kind of staffs position to be count as a votes should be created, the diversity of it aren't fair

 

[Theoretical_Toxic19]

But if the root is spatial then it's not entirely above concept of space which would be an antifeat to the tier achieved via apophasis

I said something aspatial can be space, the space of nothing that lacks spatial properties


Being aspatial means you're not spatial, how would it be an anti feat if the description of it being space doesn't describe it what?

For the first point. I meant how the translated text in FGO is referring to a specific amount of dimensions/spaces so all possible dimensions within the universe are those spaces.

That's doesn't respond to the question

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

+one

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

aight, let's try scaling the lb bosses with the information we know till now.
imo full power Zeus is the strongest. People say lb morgan is above zeus since rhongomynaid exceeded kirsch's anima animusphere which is compared to zeus, but that is because Zeus was at 10% power then. He also has a buttload of hax compared to morgan with his authorities.
He should also scale above ORT since it's power is directly said to be stellar class or star level power (in nasu cosmology)while zeus is capable of annihilating star systems with 35% power. Full power Zeus should also be only slightly weaker then chaos since Zeus has 98% of chaos's functionalities. He also is stated to be able to incinerate the universe so there again.
So imo zeus>ORT

 

[Theoretical_Toxic19]

but that is because Zeus was at 10% power then.

Zeus knows his full power and still regards wodime as his equal doesn't seem like his percentages would matter much.

He also has a buttload of hax compared to morgan with his authorities.

Won't matter much of they get resisted by Morgan hypothetically having more authority

He should also scale above ORT since it's power is directly said to be stellar class or star level power (in nasu cosmology)

????? Ort already went far beyond his initial stellar class in the lostbelt 7 and he didn't even have his heart even with those power ups, it's also said to be the greatest threat humanity has ever faced

Full power Zeus should also be only slightly weaker then chaos since Zeus has 98% of chaos's functionalities.

When was this said again?

He also is stated to be able to incinerate the universe so there again.

The throne of heroes exists beyond the universe either way and ort can reach that with no problems can Zeus do that tho?

On top of that the universe can just refer to the textures as well it can either be that or the actual universe