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Nasuverse Discussion Board 9
- Thread starter ZERO7772
- Start date
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What if I love all?
My love shall embrace all, from the smallest atom to the highest cosmos
My love shall embrace all, from the smallest atom to the highest cosmos
John985
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the voice line of Sieg to Jeanne.
Oh... the Saint of Orleans is also here. It's just natural for her, isn't it? She who can't stay put when humanity face a crisis. However, I don't think she'll remember me, I want it to stay that way. My current self would be nothing but vague traces of memories for her. Unless we meet one day in a different form - that will surely be the case
Oh... the Saint of Orleans is also here. It's just natural for her, isn't it? She who can't stay put when humanity face a crisis. However, I don't think she'll remember me, I want it to stay that way. My current self would be nothing but vague traces of memories for her. Unless we meet one day in a different form - that will surely be the case
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John985 said:
Managed enough quartz from last few quests that have yet finish. Herc when? (Actually. Have all the starter original servants np above base yet herc evades all quartz and my effort on obtaining him).
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So question
Why do Servants not have soul manipulation?
They are essentially souls materialised using an incomplete 3rd True Magic, and they can hit each other even when they have entered their incorporeal spirit forms (well, the one in spirit form can't attack I think, but the point is that other Servants can still attack them)
That seems like more than enough to say they can hit souls honestly.
Why do Servants not have soul manipulation?
They are essentially souls materialised using an incomplete 3rd True Magic, and they can hit each other even when they have entered their incorporeal spirit forms (well, the one in spirit form can't attack I think, but the point is that other Servants can still attack them)
That seems like more than enough to say they can hit souls honestly.
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That makes sense. I think they should unless contradicted
BTW we need a new key on AG's profile for him in his Black Iri form
BTW we need a new key on AG's profile for him in his Black Iri form
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@Monarch
Servants are materialised souls. A portion of the full Heroic Spirit's soul is inserted into a container that then takes the form most suitable for that soul portion. While materialised (not in spirit form), Servants are pseudo-physical beings; that is, they can affect their surroundings as well as each other. In spirit form, Servants can't affect each other or their surroudings; or if they can, it's very limited.
This is shown when in Fate/SN's FATE and Heaven's Feel routes, Archer was forced to dematerialise into his spirit form to avoid getting cleaved in half by Saber in their first encounter; and in the Unlimited Blade Works route, he did the same to avoid being fully destroyed by Gilgamesh's surprise attack.
It's difficult to completely pin down what counts as soul manipulation when it comes to Servants, because while they can't affect each other much, if at all, while in spirit form, they can devour the souls of living beings to sustain or strengthen themselves. Might be a case of soul hierarchy or amount of accumulated mystery, or god forbid, the thaumaturgical relationship between souls and their variable containers. But that's Nasuverse mumbo-jumbo that takes way too long to explain (or even comprehend) properly, and is probably way out of my league.
Personally, I'd go with "low level Soul Manipulation/Absorption" or something along those lines. The only times Servants have shown to directly affect souls are in normal human beings unless in the case of high-tier Casters.
Servants are materialised souls. A portion of the full Heroic Spirit's soul is inserted into a container that then takes the form most suitable for that soul portion. While materialised (not in spirit form), Servants are pseudo-physical beings; that is, they can affect their surroundings as well as each other. In spirit form, Servants can't affect each other or their surroudings; or if they can, it's very limited.
This is shown when in Fate/SN's FATE and Heaven's Feel routes, Archer was forced to dematerialise into his spirit form to avoid getting cleaved in half by Saber in their first encounter; and in the Unlimited Blade Works route, he did the same to avoid being fully destroyed by Gilgamesh's surprise attack.
It's difficult to completely pin down what counts as soul manipulation when it comes to Servants, because while they can't affect each other much, if at all, while in spirit form, they can devour the souls of living beings to sustain or strengthen themselves. Might be a case of soul hierarchy or amount of accumulated mystery, or god forbid, the thaumaturgical relationship between souls and their variable containers. But that's Nasuverse mumbo-jumbo that takes way too long to explain (or even comprehend) properly, and is probably way out of my league.
Personally, I'd go with "low level Soul Manipulation/Absorption" or something along those lines. The only times Servants have shown to directly affect souls are in normal human beings unless in the case of high-tier Casters.
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Materialised yes, but when they are in spirit form, can't they still be hit by another Servant?
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As far as I know, no. That was kind of the point of Archer's repeated dematerialising to avoid fatal injuries in Fate/SN. Not to mention that if they hypothetically could, why fight in physical form at all? With the grail wars being secret, and the Masters being capable of seeing through their Servants' eyes, the perks of only being able to affect other Servants would be a great boon to secrecy don't you think?
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I don't think they can attack in spirit form.
They can just still be attacked by other servants.
When does Archer dematerialise to avoid injuries? I must have missed that.
They can just still be attacked by other servants.
When does Archer dematerialise to avoid injuries? I must have missed that.
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First encounter with Saber in the FATE and Heaven's Feel routes. Rin used a command seal to force Archer to instantly dematerialise to prevent him from being completely cleaved in half by Saber. It's also likely what Archer did to avoid dying to Gilgamesh's surprise attack in the UBW route, since it was confirmed that he survived that attack to later assist Shirou and Rin in the final confrontation.
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Huh. Do you have scans or video links? I'd like to see that, as I was under the impression that just shifting between spirit form and material form to avoid attacks wasn't really a valid method of dodging another Servant's attacks.
Certainly there's enough times it would have most effective to do, and wasn't done.
Certainly there's enough times it would have most effective to do, and wasn't done.
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Probably because dematerialising is a slow process compared to most Servant attacks - after all, both times Archer pulled it off, he still got wounded to an extent. The first example was safer because it was induced by a command seal and likely happened nigh-instantly. The second example was likely a gamble, since it relied on Gilgamesh failing to hit his spiritual core, which would have been instantly fatal.
As for scans, I'll have to replay those respective sections to find them, so it'll take me a little while. Good thing I still have my old VN save files.
As for scans, I'll have to replay those respective sections to find them, so it'll take me a little while. Good thing I still have my old VN save files.
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Quoted from Fate/Complete Material III: World Material, page 018.
" Spiritual Body and Material Body "Spiritual Body" is a word that describes an existence with spiritual properties. In other words, a shape is constructed without relying on components with physical properties. On the other hand, "Material Body" means something that is identical in structure as our flesh bodies. A Material Body, just like us, cannot walk through walls, and will hurt and become wounded when beaten with an iron baton. However, a Spirit Body is capable of completely disregarding such physical interference. Attacking a Spiritual Body with a baton or sword (unless they are magical items) will only hit empty space.
When Servants materialise, they acquire Material Bodies in this world. They can also switch to Spiritual Bodies through their will. Spiritual Bodies have the advantages such as low mana consumption, and difficult to be detected by enemies. One of the properties of a Spiritual Body is that it is unaffected by physical interference, but conversely it is difficult for a Spiritual Body to affect a Material Body. As a result, Servants Materialise when engaging in combat. "
" Spiritual Body and Material Body "Spiritual Body" is a word that describes an existence with spiritual properties. In other words, a shape is constructed without relying on components with physical properties. On the other hand, "Material Body" means something that is identical in structure as our flesh bodies. A Material Body, just like us, cannot walk through walls, and will hurt and become wounded when beaten with an iron baton. However, a Spirit Body is capable of completely disregarding such physical interference. Attacking a Spiritual Body with a baton or sword (unless they are magical items) will only hit empty space.
When Servants materialise, they acquire Material Bodies in this world. They can also switch to Spiritual Bodies through their will. Spiritual Bodies have the advantages such as low mana consumption, and difficult to be detected by enemies. One of the properties of a Spiritual Body is that it is unaffected by physical interference, but conversely it is difficult for a Spiritual Body to affect a Material Body. As a result, Servants Materialise when engaging in combat. "
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Quoted from Fate/Side Material, Servant (Magecraft), page 061.
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ÞíøÕ««Úé©ÒéÆÕÑçÞÑ▓ÒüùÒüƒÒâ®Òâ│ÒéÁÒâ╝ÒüîÕñ®õ║òÒüïÒéëÚÖìÒüúÒüªÒüìÒüƒÒü«Òü»ÒÇüÕ▒ïµá╣ÒüïÒéëÕ▒àÚûôÒü©ÒüÖÒéèµè£ÒüæÒÇüÕ▒àÚûôÒü«Õñ®õ║òÒüéÒüƒÒéèÒüºÕ«ƒõ¢ôÕîûÒüùÒüƒþé║ÒÇé
Ú£èõ¢ôÒü«Òü¥Òü¥Òü¬ÒéëÚÇÜÕ©©Õ╣▓µ©ëÒéÆÕÅùÒüæõ╗ÿÒüæÒü¬ÒüäÒüîÒÇüþÅ¥õ©ûÒü©Òü«Õ╣▓µ©ëÕèøÒüîÞÉ¢ÒüíÒéïÒüƒÒéüÒÇüµêªÚùÿµÖéÒü»Õ«ƒõ¢ôÕîûÒüùÒüªÒüäÒüƒµû╣Òüîµ£ëÕê®Òü¿ÒüòÒéîÒéïÒÇé"
(Translated)
" Servant [Magecraft] The Heroic Spirits summoned by the Holy Grail. They fell under the "Familiar" classification.
Seven Classes (only) were designated in advance. They were souls of the greatest purity called forth by using relics tied to the specific Heroic Spirits.
Originally they were not existences that could be controlled by mere humans, but they were forced to cooperate with the Masters due to the Command Spells. These Command Spells represented Masters' right to rule. For Servants, obedience towards the Command Spells were "the absolute condition required for materialization".
Servants could revert to Spiritual Form at any time. While in Spiritual Form, they could pass through inorganic matters that lack mana.
During Lancer's surprise drop attack from the ceilings at the Emiya residence, he phased through the roof and entered the living room. He then materialized after clearing the ceiling.
While in Spiritual Form, Servants were not affected by physical interference. However, their abilities to affect the material world decreased. As a result, it was considered advantageous to materialize during combat. "
" ÒéÁÒâ╝Òâ┤ÒéíÒâ│ÒâêÒÇÉÚ¡öÞíôÒÇæ ÞüûµØ»Òü½ÒéêÒüúÒüªÕżÕûÜÒüòÒéîÒüƒÞï▒Ú£èÒüƒÒüíÒÇéÕêåÚí×þÜäÒü½Òü»õ¢┐ÒüäÚ¡öÒü½Òü¬ÒéïÒÇé
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ÞíøÕ««Úé©ÒéÆÕÑçÞÑ▓ÒüùÒüƒÒâ®Òâ│ÒéÁÒâ╝ÒüîÕñ®õ║òÒüïÒéëÚÖìÒüúÒüªÒüìÒüƒÒü«Òü»ÒÇüÕ▒ïµá╣ÒüïÒéëÕ▒àÚûôÒü©ÒüÖÒéèµè£ÒüæÒÇüÕ▒àÚûôÒü«Õñ®õ║òÒüéÒüƒÒéèÒüºÕ«ƒõ¢ôÕîûÒüùÒüƒþé║ÒÇé
Ú£èõ¢ôÒü«Òü¥Òü¥Òü¬ÒéëÚÇÜÕ©©Õ╣▓µ©ëÒéÆÕÅùÒüæõ╗ÿÒüæÒü¬ÒüäÒüîÒÇüþÅ¥õ©ûÒü©Òü«Õ╣▓µ©ëÕèøÒüîÞÉ¢ÒüíÒéïÒüƒÒéüÒÇüµêªÚùÿµÖéÒü»Õ«ƒõ¢ôÕîûÒüùÒüªÒüäÒüƒµû╣Òüîµ£ëÕê®Òü¿ÒüòÒéîÒéïÒÇé"
(Translated)
" Servant [Magecraft] The Heroic Spirits summoned by the Holy Grail. They fell under the "Familiar" classification.
Seven Classes (only) were designated in advance. They were souls of the greatest purity called forth by using relics tied to the specific Heroic Spirits.
Originally they were not existences that could be controlled by mere humans, but they were forced to cooperate with the Masters due to the Command Spells. These Command Spells represented Masters' right to rule. For Servants, obedience towards the Command Spells were "the absolute condition required for materialization".
Servants could revert to Spiritual Form at any time. While in Spiritual Form, they could pass through inorganic matters that lack mana.
During Lancer's surprise drop attack from the ceilings at the Emiya residence, he phased through the roof and entered the living room. He then materialized after clearing the ceiling.
While in Spiritual Form, Servants were not affected by physical interference. However, their abilities to affect the material world decreased. As a result, it was considered advantageous to materialize during combat. "
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I've never said that they can attack others while they themselves are in a Spiritual Body. Just that they themselves can still be hit. Which is aparently the case if you're using a magic item.Solacis said:
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Thing is, it's another case of Nasu's vagueness/self-contradiction. It states that spiritual bodies can't be affected by material bodies unless said material bodies are magical in nature, but then it goes on to say that the effect of material bodies on spiritual bodies are just decreased instead of being outright unaffected.
I theorize that spiritual bodies can only be affected by magical items, but even then, the effect is greatly reduced (i.e. practically negligible) from what it normally would be if the same item struck a material body. Whereas a material body can be affected by any other material body, but the effect is greatly reduced in the case of Servants unless performed by magical items. It's the only way things makes sense to me, taking the cited sources into account.
So yes, their spirit forms can be hit, but whether or not said hit actually does anything is dependent on how magical it is; especially since Servants recover considerably faster in spirit form. This is why I proposed "low level Soul Manipulation". It's not really a major ability possessed by Servants, though this may be different in the case of the full Heroic Spirits.
I theorize that spiritual bodies can only be affected by magical items, but even then, the effect is greatly reduced (i.e. practically negligible) from what it normally would be if the same item struck a material body. Whereas a material body can be affected by any other material body, but the effect is greatly reduced in the case of Servants unless performed by magical items. It's the only way things makes sense to me, taking the cited sources into account.
So yes, their spirit forms can be hit, but whether or not said hit actually does anything is dependent on how magical it is; especially since Servants recover considerably faster in spirit form. This is why I proposed "low level Soul Manipulation". It's not really a major ability possessed by Servants, though this may be different in the case of the full Heroic Spirits.
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Isn't it the other way around?Solacis said:
It says "While in Spiritual Form, Servants were not affected by physical interference." That says that spirit forms straight up can't be affected by physical interference (barring magic).
"However, their abilities to affect the material world decreased" - it says that Servants in spirit form have a decreased ability to affect the material world, not that Servants in material form have a decreased ability to affect spiritual bodies.
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I've literally gotten the Astolfo CE 15 times in a row.
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Omahariptic said:
WHAT!?
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I mean it's good for farming but I'd have the Amakusa CE.
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BTW,this day there is new interlude.Sche,Bryn and Da Vinci got an very nice buff there,i will show the upgrade later.
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There's also Rameses and Suzuka that got an upgrade.
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Eh not really,Ozy and Suzuka is only quartz interlude.
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Here the upgrade for them:
-Da Vinci NP buff,increase damage and some of critical down or something
-Sche skill upgrade: Her guts is increased and now giving an party guts,she's now tougher
-Bryn upgrade: 3000% crit up and healing increased
Feel free to correct me about this and btw here an new gameplay for Arjuna,Drake Darius:
PS4 PS Vita『Fate EXTELLA LINK』ÒéÀÒâºÒâ╝ÒâêÒâùÒâ¼ÒéñÕïòþö╗ÒÇÉÒéóÒâ½Òé©ÒâÑÒâèÒÇæþ»ç
PS4 PS Vita『Fate EXTELLA LINK』ÒéÀÒâºÒâ╝ÒâêÒâùÒâ¼ÒéñÕïòþö╗ÒÇÉÒâÇÒâ¼ÒéñÒé¬Òé╣õ©ëõ©ûÒÇæþ»ç
PS4 PS Vita『Fate EXTELLA LINK』ÒéÀÒâºÒâ╝ÒâêÒâùÒâ¼ÒéñÕïòþö╗ÒÇÉÒâòÒâ®Òâ│ÒéÀÒé╣Òâ╗ÒâëÒâ¼ÒéñÒé»ÒÇæþ»ç
-Da Vinci NP buff,increase damage and some of critical down or something
-Sche skill upgrade: Her guts is increased and now giving an party guts,she's now tougher
-Bryn upgrade: 3000% crit up and healing increased
Feel free to correct me about this and btw here an new gameplay for Arjuna,Drake Darius:
PS4 PS Vita『Fate EXTELLA LINK』ÒéÀÒâºÒâ╝ÒâêÒâùÒâ¼ÒéñÕïòþö╗ÒÇÉÒéóÒâ½Òé©ÒâÑÒâèÒÇæþ»ç
PS4 PS Vita『Fate EXTELLA LINK』ÒéÀÒâºÒâ╝ÒâêÒâùÒâ¼ÒéñÕïòþö╗ÒÇÉÒâÇÒâ¼ÒéñÒé¬Òé╣õ©ëõ©ûÒÇæþ»ç
PS4 PS Vita『Fate EXTELLA LINK』ÒéÀÒâºÒâ╝ÒâêÒâùÒâ¼ÒéñÕïòþö╗ÒÇÉÒâòÒâ®Òâ│ÒéÀÒé╣Òâ╗ÒâëÒâ¼ÒéñÒé»ÒÇæþ»ç
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Lol forgot this one,here the gameplay for our Robin:
PS4 PS Vita『Fate EXTELLA LINK』ÒéÀÒâºÒâ╝ÒâêÒâùÒâ¼ÒéñÕïòþö╗ÒÇÉÒâ¡ÒâôÒâ│ÒâòÒââÒâëÒÇæþ»ç
PS4 PS Vita『Fate EXTELLA LINK』ÒéÀÒâºÒâ╝ÒâêÒâùÒâ¼ÒéñÕïòþö╗ÒÇÉÒâ¡ÒâôÒâ│ÒâòÒââÒâëÒÇæþ»ç
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Yeah lmao my mistake, they just have quartz interludes that I can't wait to read.
At least they finally worked on Scheherazade's skill set. She's less useless for now. I fed her to Sieg though so ┬»\_(Òâä)_/┬»
At least they finally worked on Scheherazade's skill set. She's less useless for now. I fed her to Sieg though so ┬»\_(Òâä)_/┬»
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Lol yeah sure,fed him. XD
That said,among's of the servant,Sche interlude is the longest one,eight node bro,eight node!!
That said,among's of the servant,Sche interlude is the longest one,eight node bro,eight node!!
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I did lmao I got pictures.
I think that strengthening interludes tend to be that long. If I get her again (I hope I don't) I might as well make her more useful.
I think that strengthening interludes tend to be that long. If I get her again (I hope I don't) I might as well make her more useful.
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That said,Da Vinci and Sche really need a buff while Bryn is okay,now Bryn is above okay or very very good.
Anyhow,already see the 4 video above?
Anyhow,already see the 4 video above?
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Da Vinci and Scheherazade definitely needed a buff, I'm glad that DW set that straight. I honestly forgot Bryn existed, I never see her in the support list.
Yeah I saw them, Arjuna's probably my only reason to get the game. Not really looking forward to it though since Astolfo's in it.
Yeah I saw them, Arjuna's probably my only reason to get the game. Not really looking forward to it though since Astolfo's in it.
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Heh,i'm looking forward for Darius tho,if i see he might have some new abilites based from his gameplay.
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Ummm
Holy shit Darius is awesome
****** zombie elephants n shit.
Holy shit Darius is awesome
****** zombie elephants n shit.
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Just finished watching the Heaven's Feel movie.
Overall it was quite good, in terms of visual a 10/10 even more while coming from a quality movie of UFOtable, music was fine, but not outstanding. Although the movie has some things that don't happen in the VN. ie.
-The whole Cu/Assassin chase through the highway was rather unnecessary IMO.
-Assassin defeating Cu with help of the shadow... that was rather ehhh. While Cu couldn't be defeated in CQC by True Assassin and the whole "LOL Protection from Arrows, BITCH!" he gest bested while he was in mid air "Eat my Zabaniya, BITCH!"
-They omitted the girl getting killraped by Zouken worms (they showed a frame of a girl with blood, kinda meh), and 1 thing or 2 that happens in different order (not big deal).
-The whole scene of Medea/Soichiro...was decent, although it seemed as if they tried to explain to the VN readers, "what the hell happened" prior Saber and Shiro arriving to the temple, but then they changed it to "**** it, let the shadow kill Medea instead of Saber".
I'd give it a 8 or 9 out of 10. Not perfect, but QUITE good.
Pros:
Smug Saber Alter
Outstanding animation
Enoyable music
Cons:
Too much Sakura
Not enough Worms
Maybe it was me, but Zouken didn't get too much characterization.
Overall it was quite good, in terms of visual a 10/10 even more while coming from a quality movie of UFOtable, music was fine, but not outstanding. Although the movie has some things that don't happen in the VN. ie.
-The whole Cu/Assassin chase through the highway was rather unnecessary IMO.
-Assassin defeating Cu with help of the shadow... that was rather ehhh. While Cu couldn't be defeated in CQC by True Assassin and the whole "LOL Protection from Arrows, BITCH!" he gest bested while he was in mid air "Eat my Zabaniya, BITCH!"
-They omitted the girl getting killraped by Zouken worms (they showed a frame of a girl with blood, kinda meh), and 1 thing or 2 that happens in different order (not big deal).
-The whole scene of Medea/Soichiro...was decent, although it seemed as if they tried to explain to the VN readers, "what the hell happened" prior Saber and Shiro arriving to the temple, but then they changed it to "**** it, let the shadow kill Medea instead of Saber".
I'd give it a 8 or 9 out of 10. Not perfect, but QUITE good.
Pros:
Smug Saber Alter
Outstanding animation
Enoyable music
Cons:
Too much Sakura
Not enough Worms
Maybe it was me, but Zouken didn't get too much characterization.
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