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Nasuverse Discussion Board 20

She can use it to combo attack with Excalibur actually, and it being not an attack really should not matter all that much.

How does this work?

For the second part, Avalon's 6D so him being able to destroy it would make him 6D as well.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
Doesn't all magecraft come from Goetia/Solomon? Him negating them wouldn't be a Nega Summon thing, it would be a Ten Rings thing. That was the point I was making.
Click to expand...
No, only Modern Magecraft, or magecraft from humans. The magecraft of gods would not fall under his domain
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
How does this work?

For the second part, Avalon's 6D so him being able to destroy it would make him 6D as well.
Click to expand...
I believe there was a gif of it on her profile at one point.

No, it just means he has the means to ignore, nullify, counter, or resist it. He isn't the only one who has the means to bypass it. Saver for example is capable of such. Perhaps it just means he has means to deal with higher dimensional manipulation
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
All of the magecraft NPs you named were modern magecraft. Besides Invisible Air maybe.
Click to expand...
Cool. Doesn't have anything to do with whether or not Nega Summon works on them. Medea's Pain Breaker is also likely divine mage craft as well, and Nitocris's magecraft assuming it comes from the egyptian gods. but again, this is beside the point
 
"No, it just means he has the means to ignore, nullify, counter, or resist it. He isn't the only one who has the means to bypass it. Saver for example is capable of such. Perhaps it just means he has means to deal with higher dimensional manipulation."

It's not really hax on it's own, it's the sixth dimension so how would he resist/ignore it other than durability? Nullifying a higher dimension counts for AP, I think.
 
Cool. Doesn't have anything to do with whether or not Nega Summon works on them. Medea's Pain Breaker is also likely divine mage craft as well, and Nitocris's magecraft assuming it comes from the egyptian gods. but again, this is beside the point

Your point was that you were asking if magecraft performed by humans would work on Goetia if Noble Phantasm Magecraft didn't. I said it wouldn't because Ten Rings negs any human magecraft.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
"No, it just means he has the means to ignore, nullify, counter, or resist it. He isn't the only one who has the means to bypass it. Saver for example is capable of such. Perhaps it just means he has means to deal with higher dimensional manipulation."
It's not really hax on it's own, it's the sixth dimension so how would he resist/ignore it other than durability? Nullifying a higher dimension counts for AP, I think.
Click to expand...
Its multi-dimensional refraction, that's how it works. He can ignore it, or somehow attack while ignoring her difference on the 6th axis.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
Your point was that you were asking if magecraft performed by humans would work on Goetia if Noble Phantasm Magecraft didn't. I said it wouldn't because Ten Rings negs any human magecraft.
Click to expand...
No, my point was based on if Magecraft that is literally the same as a Noble Phantasm in basically every way except that it isn't a noble phantasm would work around Nega Summon despite Noble Phantasm magecraft not working.
 
"Its multi-dimensional refraction, that's how it works. He can ignore it, or somehow attack while ignoring her difference on the 6th axis. "

Then why is it called Low Multiversal Durability on the page? That's misleading.

"Durability: At least Mountain level (Can withstand blows from Berserker without taking any damage). Low Complex Multiverse level with Avalon (Shuts out all interference up to the sixth dimension, including True Magic, can block attacks from a "higher order dimension")"
 
"No, my point was based on if Magecraft that is literally the same as a Noble Phantasm in basically every way except that it isn't a noble phantasm would work around Nega Summon despite Noble Phantasm magecraft not working."

But neither of those two would work on him, neither Noble Phantams nor Magecraft. I think I'm misunderstanding, can you give a different example using something that doesn't work on him and something that does work?
 
Because it shuts out all interference up the the sixth dimension, exactly as it says. That's why its in the durability section. Its not missleading at all, because if you used a power on her, then it wouldn't work unless it was greater than the 6th dimension or was a straight up physical attack. Pretty simple
 
I've been told that Avalon, other than he actually moving into the higher dimensional structure, can be bypassed with raw physical attacks. I could be wrong tho, that was just the explanation for why she isn't the strongest of her tier
 
Also speaking of Avalon is anyone else annoyed that Artoria's max bond CE is not Avalon giving a few uses of invincibility and heals her each turn?
 
Remind me, in magic circuits one can have greater quantity or quality without necessarily having a higher maximum output, right?
 
Not sure about that. I think better quality magic circuits are like electrical wiring with less resistance. Moree power can be transmitted through.
 
Maximum output isn't normally a big thing, but from what we can see of Sakura and Rin, it would seem Maximum output is correlational to maximum capacity. Sakura can only spell 1000 units of mana from her grotesquely humongous amount because that was her max capacity normally, Rin as well can only store 1000 units to be fired through the sword of Zelretch.

As for Illya and Flat, it's incredibly hard to say. Illya can cover for Herk easily and has enough mana to even let him regenerate 2 lives in 3 days. But Flat, as far as I remember, had no issue keeping up Jack's 200 clones with combat ability comparable to a martial Servant who could actually push Heracles, His are most definitely of a higher quality though, Flat is all around just a stupidly powerful and innately intuitive magus, while Illya is custom special made to be the best Master there is, and Master don't necessarily have big combat or magecraft skills.
 
There's a difference between having your attacks being reflected as that is an effect the power has on you. Resisting a defense doesn't make sense. Negating a defense makes senses, you're acting like the defense isn't there, resisting the fact that the defense is there does not make any sense.
 
Is it? It's more an effect of your attack hitting something.

Yeah, I'm kinda confused with Iap's presentation of Avalon's mechanics interacting with Nega Summmon.
 
Type 2 seems most fitting

Are we making individual demon god profiles or just adding them to Goetia.

And should we give them resistances to all Hassan abilities?
 
I guess we are just adding them to Goetia, but I think certain notable Demon Gods should get their own profiles.

Yeah, they definitely should get resistances to them.

By the way, I finished flushing out the descriptions of the demon god pillars, but I might add a description for Baal like we have for Phenex after I finish Shinjuku.
 
Also, shouldn't David's Ark get Space-Time Manipulation and existence Erasure for being able to reduce Okeanos to nothingness?
 
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