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I mean, range and AOE would do the trick.
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Nasuverse Discussion Board 20
- Thread starter DragonEmperor23
- Start date
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You would need the range to destroy the time temple, kill and delete solomon from the throne and kill every demon pillar all at the same time
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Goetia's immortality problem isn't the first time I've heard of it being hard AF to try and take down so it doesn't really surprise me.
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- #84
I forgot how SBA interacts with things like this. I remember a thread where there was a character that had type 8 on humanity but SBA means there aren't any people around that let him negate that by killing them all so it was argued that he could just blow up the planet and it would count as the same thing. So with SBA, would the Demon Pillars be on Earth or in the Temple? I don't think they would be scattered around time like they are in FGO.
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The demon God pillars are in the temple of time by default unless he summons them to his aid
Speaking of which, I was writing on more detailed descriptions for all the demon God pillars, but my computer took a shit on itself so I am gonna have to finish them in the morning lol. Let me know what you think so far
Speaking of which, I was writing on more detailed descriptions for all the demon God pillars, but my computer took a shit on itself so I am gonna have to finish them in the morning lol. Let me know what you think so far
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anyone know of a JP account with saber australia?? I been trying to find her JP raw interlude for weeks now lol.
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Australia?
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Ayy we getting Australian servants now? Lol
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lol i mean Saber Altria/Artoria/Arturia. her regular form
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Oh
I can't help then I have two accounts with Salter one with Suzuka Gozen and one with Altera and those are all my sabers across all my accounts
I can't help then I have two accounts with Salter one with Suzuka Gozen and one with Altera and those are all my sabers across all my accounts
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Finding her 2nd interlude JP raw is the most difficult thing ever
but on the topic of Australian servants. Would anyone be qualified? Like steve irwn maybe haha
but on the topic of Australian servants. Would anyone be qualified? Like steve irwn maybe haha
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The thing it's stealing?Yobo Blue said:
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I think I found some more resistences for the d
Demon gods potentially
Demon gods potentially
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Guys, I was discussing with someone on how Nega Summon works and we disagreed.
Nega-Summon: A skill that negates and demolishes any attack from Servants by completely nullifying their Noble Phantasms through invulnerability, invalidation, absorption and reduction. It's effective against any Noble Phantasm owned by the Servants recorded in the Throne of Heroes with the exception of Solomon's Ars Nova.
I was arguing because it specifies that it demolishes Servant's attacks by nullifying their Noble Phantasms and that it repeats again that it works on any Noble Phantasm recorded in the Throne of Heroes, it's something that only works on Servants. Because a Noble Phantasm and being recorded in the Throne of Heroes is something only Servants have. I felt like my argument was supported by the fact that it only talks about Servants and not any of the other beings in Nasuverse that are strong, such as the TYPES, Divine Spirits, or the higher tier Phantasmal Beasts. He argued that Servants would be equalized to everyone because of SBA but I disagree because there are plenty of other abilities on this wiki that only work on a certain thing (such as Dragon Slayers working on Dragons specifically and Holy things working on demonic/dark things) that aren't equalized to everyone by SBA. I wanted to know what you guys thought about this.
Edit: I know this is a name fallacy on it's own but I also thought that the name of the skill being Nega Summo aso has the implication of it only working on Servants.
Nega-Summon: A skill that negates and demolishes any attack from Servants by completely nullifying their Noble Phantasms through invulnerability, invalidation, absorption and reduction. It's effective against any Noble Phantasm owned by the Servants recorded in the Throne of Heroes with the exception of Solomon's Ars Nova.
I was arguing because it specifies that it demolishes Servant's attacks by nullifying their Noble Phantasms and that it repeats again that it works on any Noble Phantasm recorded in the Throne of Heroes, it's something that only works on Servants. Because a Noble Phantasm and being recorded in the Throne of Heroes is something only Servants have. I felt like my argument was supported by the fact that it only talks about Servants and not any of the other beings in Nasuverse that are strong, such as the TYPES, Divine Spirits, or the higher tier Phantasmal Beasts. He argued that Servants would be equalized to everyone because of SBA but I disagree because there are plenty of other abilities on this wiki that only work on a certain thing (such as Dragon Slayers working on Dragons specifically and Holy things working on demonic/dark things) that aren't equalized to everyone by SBA. I wanted to know what you guys thought about this.
Edit: I know this is a name fallacy on it's own but I also thought that the name of the skill being Nega Summo aso has the implication of it only working on Servants.
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Well I agree, honestly I feel like this isn't the only thing SBA equalises that shouldn't be equelised. Sometimes this site has a habit of ignoring context of abilities to better fit them within the sites pre-existing structure, but then again I rarely have more than a slightly better than average knowledge of verses which I gain from wikis and this site.
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By verse equalization i'm pretty sure nega-summon would work on most people in the wiki
Within the verse it would only work on servants recorded in the throne of heroes however due to how verse equalization works that would equalize to a good amount of character's weapons and abilities considering just how wide of a net the term "Noble Phantasm" casts
Within the verse it would only work on servants recorded in the throne of heroes however due to how verse equalization works that would equalize to a good amount of character's weapons and abilities considering just how wide of a net the term "Noble Phantasm" casts
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It nullifies any np found in the throne of heroes, besides Ars NovaYobo Blue said:
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What about people without legends? That's most of the wiki.
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I'm pretty sure it would just be akin to how fragarach would work, their trump card or most powerful ability or abilities
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Which assassin
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NP is many things. Some are a sublimation of the life of an individual as some ability, some the crystalization of a popular anecdote or action in their life, some are powerful items they were known for, others are just the most powerful skills or techniques of someone. They can all fit.
In the first place, after all, most noble phantasm are the second kind of Mystic Code or Specialized Mystic Codes, magical items that cause a predetermined effect once energy is channeled into them.
In the first place, after all, most noble phantasm are the second kind of Mystic Code or Specialized Mystic Codes, magical items that cause a predetermined effect once energy is channeled into them.
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- #110
Verse equalization: Similar supernatural aspects of verses get equalized in a reasonable fashion. So a supernatural energy that almost everyone in a Verse has, which is necessary to fight the characters of said Verse, will be assumed to be the equivalent energy that the opponents use in their techniques so that a proper fight can happen.
I mean, by SBA's exact wording wouldn't Nega Summon not apply? There's nothing similar about this that you can generically equalize it. A Servant is a Hero/Anti Hero who's legend was recorded in a throne that's in a different dimension/outside of space-time. They have their abilities made into Skills and the things they accomplished/wielded in their legends are made into Noble Phantasms. They have cores. This isn't just some energy you're equalizing, it's their existence itself.
https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Akhilleus_Kosmos
"Due to Achilles being known for giving Noble Phantasms in his legend and Astolfo being known for receiving them, it is able to be smoothly loaned despite such things not normally being possible."
This proves that Noble Phantasms can't be equalized to other weapons or abilities because they aren't able to be given to other people normally. Whereas on the other hand, there's nothing stopping Naruto from giving someone else a Rasengan.
I mean, by SBA's exact wording wouldn't Nega Summon not apply? There's nothing similar about this that you can generically equalize it. A Servant is a Hero/Anti Hero who's legend was recorded in a throne that's in a different dimension/outside of space-time. They have their abilities made into Skills and the things they accomplished/wielded in their legends are made into Noble Phantasms. They have cores. This isn't just some energy you're equalizing, it's their existence itself.
https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Akhilleus_Kosmos
"Due to Achilles being known for giving Noble Phantasms in his legend and Astolfo being known for receiving them, it is able to be smoothly loaned despite such things not normally being possible."
This proves that Noble Phantasms can't be equalized to other weapons or abilities because they aren't able to be given to other people normally. Whereas on the other hand, there's nothing stopping Naruto from giving someone else a Rasengan.
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@Dragon
No, it works on beings other than servants. What Nega Summon actually is, is basically just a composite ability of a counter to every single ability recorded in the throne of heroes. If someone had a similar ability to a servant, then that ability would still be nullified/Countered/resisted by the Nega Summon. We know that he can obviously resist the authority that Lancer Ereshkigal gets from her Noble Phantasm due to nega summon. If he was fighting divine spirit Ereshkigal, would he suddenly not be able to use that same ability just because he isn't a servant? Avalon exists for both Saber and in the actual world. If a human had Avalon, not the version that comes with summoning Saber, would Nega Summon suddenly not work on it? Of course it would still work, its the same thing. What about Magecraft that is also an NP? Phantasm Punishment, Chronos Rose, Unlimited Blade Works, and Invisible Air are basically just glorified versions of spells (Origin Rounds, Internal Time Dilation, and the spells of the same name respectively). If Goetia was fighting Kiritsugu would his origin bullets work even tho Phantasm Punishment didn't? Of course they wouldn't. Noble Phantasms are basically just "that which define a hero." things like Fragarach are considered Noble Phantasm even tho they are not held by a servant, so something in another verse should work as well, and clearly does not have to do with the summoning itself.
Now we can take this same principle and apply it elsewhere. Getsuga Tensho is basically just the same as any number of the sword beams that we see in fate, so Nega Summon should be able to deal with them as well. No Second Strike is literally just really ******* good Bajiquan that involves ki manipulation, so any other characters who use that or similar martial arts should be able to be countered as well. Etc.
No, it works on beings other than servants. What Nega Summon actually is, is basically just a composite ability of a counter to every single ability recorded in the throne of heroes. If someone had a similar ability to a servant, then that ability would still be nullified/Countered/resisted by the Nega Summon. We know that he can obviously resist the authority that Lancer Ereshkigal gets from her Noble Phantasm due to nega summon. If he was fighting divine spirit Ereshkigal, would he suddenly not be able to use that same ability just because he isn't a servant? Avalon exists for both Saber and in the actual world. If a human had Avalon, not the version that comes with summoning Saber, would Nega Summon suddenly not work on it? Of course it would still work, its the same thing. What about Magecraft that is also an NP? Phantasm Punishment, Chronos Rose, Unlimited Blade Works, and Invisible Air are basically just glorified versions of spells (Origin Rounds, Internal Time Dilation, and the spells of the same name respectively). If Goetia was fighting Kiritsugu would his origin bullets work even tho Phantasm Punishment didn't? Of course they wouldn't. Noble Phantasms are basically just "that which define a hero." things like Fragarach are considered Noble Phantasm even tho they are not held by a servant, so something in another verse should work as well, and clearly does not have to do with the summoning itself.
Now we can take this same principle and apply it elsewhere. Getsuga Tensho is basically just the same as any number of the sword beams that we see in fate, so Nega Summon should be able to deal with them as well. No Second Strike is literally just really ******* good Bajiquan that involves ki manipulation, so any other characters who use that or similar martial arts should be able to be countered as well. Etc.
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"What about Magecraft that is also an NP?"
Magecraft of any sort wouldn't do anything to Goetia.
Rings of Solomon: Ten rings given to Solomon by God. As long as he has all ten, Solomon can negate and control any magecraft performed by mankind. As he possesses Solomon's body, he is able to use these ten rings himself, but cannot do so in the events of the story, as he does not possess the final ring.
Magecraft of any sort wouldn't do anything to Goetia.
Rings of Solomon: Ten rings given to Solomon by God. As long as he has all ten, Solomon can negate and control any magecraft performed by mankind. As he possesses Solomon's body, he is able to use these ten rings himself, but cannot do so in the events of the story, as he does not possess the final ring.
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@Iapitus
Then why doesn't it just say it negates every ability instead of specifying it's Servant's abilities? Also, is Lancer Ereshkigal's Authority as strong as her complete Divine Spirit Authority after being put into a Class Container?
Then why doesn't it just say it negates every ability instead of specifying it's Servant's abilities? Also, is Lancer Ereshkigal's Authority as strong as her complete Divine Spirit Authority after being put into a Class Container?
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- #115
"Avalon exists for both Saber and in the actual world. If a human had Avalon, not the version that comes with summoning Saber, would Nega Summon suddenly not work on it? Of course it would still work, its the same thing."
Nega Summon wouldn't work on Avalon, it's not an attack.
Nega Summon wouldn't work on Avalon, it's not an attack.
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You completely missed my point. The question was if Nega summon worked on them. Although perhaps nega summon's composite counter to servant abilities then maybe the rings of solomon are that specific counter, but that is beside the point. Also, Invisible Air is a spell from Merlin, not humanity, so 10 rings wouldn't work on it anyway.DragonEmperor23 said:
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Physically, idk. But the authority is the full power of the underworld, so yes, it is as strong as her divine spirit formDragonEmperor23 said:
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She can use it to combo attack with Excalibur actually, and it being not an attack really should not matter all that much.DragonEmperor23 said:
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@Dragon
I don't remember anything stating that you lose the potency of authority when summoned as a servant, it is just difficult to use it without destroying the container
Also Eresh is using Rin's body and not a servant container so that restriction should be bypassed anyway
I don't remember anything stating that you lose the potency of authority when summoned as a servant, it is just difficult to use it without destroying the container
Also Eresh is using Rin's body and not a servant container so that restriction should be bypassed anyway
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- #120
Doesn't all magecraft come from Goetia/Solomon? Him negating them wouldn't be a Nega Summon thing, it would be a Ten Rings thing. That was the point I was making.
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