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And here I thought Angra was haxed
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Nasuverse: Base Servant Stats Revisions
- Thread starter DemonGodMitchAubin
- Start date
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Nah, he weak boi.
He explains to Bazett that physically, he is trash. And his only NP, Verg Avesta, is pretty much a primitive and easy as **** curse that returns damage, compared to Mephistopheles or a better curse user who could likely multiply it before sending it back. Though his does ignore magic resistance if properly activated, which is it's only pro.
But not only is it a simple as heck curse, he also needs to be precise. Too shallow, and the enemy has a pretty meh wound. Too deep, he dies and it all goes to nothing. Not only does he need to survive or he can't use it, but he also needs to get a nice wound that can actually really hurt his enemy. And the ability doesn't activate on its own so he needs to do it and get the timing right.
He isn't being edgy or funny calling himself weak as hell, he's being very honest. But if it's someone on his level... well, Shirou notes that his speed increases a hundred-fold or more since the start of his battle with Saber by pushing his body to the limit and near self-destruction.
You can guess the rest.
He explains to Bazett that physically, he is trash. And his only NP, Verg Avesta, is pretty much a primitive and easy as **** curse that returns damage, compared to Mephistopheles or a better curse user who could likely multiply it before sending it back. Though his does ignore magic resistance if properly activated, which is it's only pro.
But not only is it a simple as heck curse, he also needs to be precise. Too shallow, and the enemy has a pretty meh wound. Too deep, he dies and it all goes to nothing. Not only does he need to survive or he can't use it, but he also needs to get a nice wound that can actually really hurt his enemy. And the ability doesn't activate on its own so he needs to do it and get the timing right.
He isn't being edgy or funny calling himself weak as hell, he's being very honest. But if it's someone on his level... well, Shirou notes that his speed increases a hundred-fold or more since the start of his battle with Saber by pushing his body to the limit and near self-destruction.
You can guess the rest.
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I still learned to 7-B tho, but frick that i guess, my fave verse became way weaker in AP now that i can't do my best matches anymore
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Some of the servants won't take that much of a downgrade, though.
Indian archer boy with his NP-level ''normals attacks'', for example.
The real problem was that ''normal'' Servants were being scaled to an outlier from a top tier Servant surviving an attack from a Divine Spirit
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@LehenDuo I still pessimistict about that, Low 7-B at best is really low and there not so much Low 7-B out there, and with the possible of 6-C removal its basically lose-lose situation and Nasuverse will be f***ed up
Not gonna talk about the tier 2 Nasu since they are relative weak compared to the other tier 2 powerhouse out there
Not gonna talk about the tier 2 Nasu since they are relative weak compared to the other tier 2 powerhouse out there
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Whoah dude 6C is not likely to leave
I wouldn’t say impossible since I’ll try to look through this thread and discuss with Lance before I continue with a downgrade CRT, but it’s not likely to happen.
Besides, Low 7B and High 7C are massive tiers, that’s Akame Ga Kill and RWBY right there, let’s not just toss that out.
I wouldn’t say impossible since I’ll try to look through this thread and discuss with Lance before I continue with a downgrade CRT, but it’s not likely to happen.
Besides, Low 7B and High 7C are massive tiers, that’s Akame Ga Kill and RWBY right there, let’s not just toss that out.
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I still fully believe 6-C has enough backing for a Likely/ or Possibly, so I don't mind any discussion.
If it's not enough and 6-C has to go, it is what it is. Disagreeing with the site on a few things is not new after all.
If it's not enough and 6-C has to go, it is what it is. Disagreeing with the site on a few things is not new after all.
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But of course
Now, just to be sure, Servabts are scaling to Berzerker destroying mountains (1.2 megatons) with potentially back scaling yes?
Now, just to be sure, Servabts are scaling to Berzerker destroying mountains (1.2 megatons) with potentially back scaling yes?
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If the Karna feat is fully accepted and there's no issues with it, Berserker's should be a supporting one and Karna's the main one (since Karna in Apocrypha has endurance in the lower end without his armor. Sieg even manages to kill him in one well-placed strike after he loses it to use Vasavi Shakti. The AP value on Karna's is also slightly bigger and he was at the epicenter of it).
If not, then yes, Berserker's will be the main one and some back scaling goes off from there since he's among the physically strongest.
If not, then yes, Berserker's will be the main one and some back scaling goes off from there since he's among the physically strongest.
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No offense but AgK and RWBY again are feels too plain
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Well, Madoka Magica has plenty of Low 7Bs.
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Also Schnee, what do you think about what I said regarding E rank peeps scaling to other Servants, even if at the bottom rung?
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Honestly think they should just be 9B. If not even a High 7C would make more sense even if the calc gets accepted.
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What makes you think so?
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@Schnee_One Even so they are not too much from what i remember compared to almost of servants/char that not god tiers, while most of the PMMM best char are in 7-B with massive gap
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I agree with your stance SirLance
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Oh crap I didn’t receive notifications.
Well, on topic, if Karna who did the feat had only C rank endurance, I can see that E rank scaling slightly would make sense
Well, on topic, if Karna who did the feat had only C rank endurance, I can see that E rank scaling slightly would make sense
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I mean, they can scale further below. They are at the very bottom for sure.
But my point was that Rin had access to her Super Gems when she used Reinforcement to attack Caster. If Medea herself can use Reinforcement to push Kuzuki into the level where he can hurt Saber, then it makes sense.
And I say it makes sense because Reinforcement is only a "spell" in the most rudimentary sense. The only thing the mage does deliberately is putting magical energy into something correctly since if done incorrectly, it causes damage instead and acts as a poison. The object getting strengthened is just a natural side effect of having magical energy added, rather than being on purpose.
Therefore, if Medea can boost Kuzuki to that level, and Kirei can do the same for himself using the humongous magical energy in his Command Seals, Rin should be able to pull off something similar with her Super Gems that she has been stuffing with energy for 10 years. She already has enough energy to match singular spells from Caster and kill Berserker with 5 gems to the head.
On top of that, it makes more sense since E Rank Strength Edison can hurt D Endurance Tesla. Or how Saber still blocks Angra's swords, instead of just standing there and taking it like EMIYA just stood there and didn't even have his head flinch when a depowered Kuzuki hit his head. Or how Angra can still somewhat barely block a hit from Saber in turn without his arms getting turned into paste. He sure as hell isn't as skilled as Sasaki to just parry her blows and dissipate most of the strike's power.
But my point was that Rin had access to her Super Gems when she used Reinforcement to attack Caster. If Medea herself can use Reinforcement to push Kuzuki into the level where he can hurt Saber, then it makes sense.
And I say it makes sense because Reinforcement is only a "spell" in the most rudimentary sense. The only thing the mage does deliberately is putting magical energy into something correctly since if done incorrectly, it causes damage instead and acts as a poison. The object getting strengthened is just a natural side effect of having magical energy added, rather than being on purpose.
Therefore, if Medea can boost Kuzuki to that level, and Kirei can do the same for himself using the humongous magical energy in his Command Seals, Rin should be able to pull off something similar with her Super Gems that she has been stuffing with energy for 10 years. She already has enough energy to match singular spells from Caster and kill Berserker with 5 gems to the head.
On top of that, it makes more sense since E Rank Strength Edison can hurt D Endurance Tesla. Or how Saber still blocks Angra's swords, instead of just standing there and taking it like EMIYA just stood there and didn't even have his head flinch when a depowered Kuzuki hit his head. Or how Angra can still somewhat barely block a hit from Saber in turn without his arms getting turned into paste. He sure as hell isn't as skilled as Sasaki to just parry her blows and dissipate most of the strike's power.
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Strength E Caster Cu could trade blows with blackened Archer in Fuyuki no problems, as an example
They should technically scale.
9-B for them seems incoherent, given we are already throwing away the parameters rules and going the ''all servants scale'' route mostly
Unless my memory fails, the magical energy INTO/can act as poison if not properly done is a Shirou thing. Normal Reinforcement is ONTO, as if coating the objetct with magical energy.
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From what I remember, not at all. It can act as a poison because, as the material book explains, you are trying to fill something already "complete". A knife can already cut, and you aren't sharpening it after all. Which is why Reinforcement is extremely difficult to master - it has too much freedom, not many guidelines. Being able to Reinforce everything, or almost everything is exceedingly rare as a consequence. The most difficult version by far is Reinforcing someone else, since the body naturally rejects foreign magical energy.
If Rin noticed how Shirou's projections were irregular by being too perfect and lasting too long, it would seem weird to me that she didn't notice his Reinforcement being invested INTO instead of ONTO an object.
The Side material description:
If Rin noticed how Shirou's projections were irregular by being too perfect and lasting too long, it would seem weird to me that she didn't notice his Reinforcement being invested INTO instead of ONTO an object.
The Side material description:
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That's the thing, I remember one of those ''WTF SHIROU!?'' scenes of Rin about this.
Well see if I can find it or my mind is playing tricks on me
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Go ahead, now am curious too if you are the one that has it right. The main WTF that I remember is that such stuff is the best he can pull off, and that he doesn't even understand how to use his magic circuits, thinking it is something he needs to make each time.
... Well that and telling him he would likely kill himself tracing Caliburn because that was way above his level.
... Well that and telling him he would likely kill himself tracing Caliburn because that was way above his level.
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....Oh yeah, Caster Cu has E rank strength
Yeah, that convinces me, nevermind then
Yeah, that convinces me, nevermind then
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Reminder that Tamamo does too, considering her love for physical attacks.
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- Thread starter
- #186
It's almost like Servant Ranks are whack as hell
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Eh, I have never agreed with that. I just think people focus too much solely on the rank instead of taking it as a guideline.
It is no different from what we do here - there can be pretty big AP differences, but Servants can compensate with their skills and abilities. The issue isn't only "Oh, they have E Rank strength!", but that Servants that are that physically weak RARELY polished their close combat skills.
If Taiga is a prodigy that can win a Kendo tournament with one arm, but Saber can outskill her so hard that she disarms her in a second while using less strength than Taiga, what hope does someone like Angra or Medea have when they are both weaker AND less skilled? Conversely, when Sasaki has the speed, skill and terrain advantage, he can fight Saber on even grounds. Doesn't change the fact that if he blocked instead of parrying, Saber overpowers him and likely cleaves a gash in his everything. He still doesn't have the AP advantage, but he can compensate.
But Grand Order would be massive if they sprinkled in details like the do in the VN or the Light Novels, so we don't get nearly as much context most of the time.
It is no different from what we do here - there can be pretty big AP differences, but Servants can compensate with their skills and abilities. The issue isn't only "Oh, they have E Rank strength!", but that Servants that are that physically weak RARELY polished their close combat skills.
If Taiga is a prodigy that can win a Kendo tournament with one arm, but Saber can outskill her so hard that she disarms her in a second while using less strength than Taiga, what hope does someone like Angra or Medea have when they are both weaker AND less skilled? Conversely, when Sasaki has the speed, skill and terrain advantage, he can fight Saber on even grounds. Doesn't change the fact that if he blocked instead of parrying, Saber overpowers him and likely cleaves a gash in his everything. He still doesn't have the AP advantage, but he can compensate.
But Grand Order would be massive if they sprinkled in details like the do in the VN or the Light Novels, so we don't get nearly as much context most of the time.
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The issue is that a lot of those Casters have stuff to boost their strength, and we don't know if they used those or not.
Cu is the perfect example because he doesn't activate a single run when he fights Emiya in close quarters in First Order, and Emiya even dominates him at one point. Very unlike Lancer disarming him a million times in their first fight or forcing him into only being able to defend in their second fight in Stay Night, so further proof he wasn't buffed.
But unlike other E rank scrubs, he actually has very polished fighting skills.
Cu is the perfect example because he doesn't activate a single run when he fights Emiya in close quarters in First Order, and Emiya even dominates him at one point. Very unlike Lancer disarming him a million times in their first fight or forcing him into only being able to defend in their second fight in Stay Night, so further proof he wasn't buffed.
But unlike other E rank scrubs, he actually has very polished fighting skills.
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- Thread starter
- #191
To be fair, at least they're not as bad as Jojo Stand Stats
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Insert "Star Platinum is the strongest Stand" shennanigans here
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"Hoho, I see... SO STAR PLATINUM AND GOETIA ARE THE SAME TYPE OF STANDO!"
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- Thread starter
- #194
So it looks like "At least Low 7-B, possibly 6-C" has been accepted, should we start applying changes to the profiles?
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Sounds pretty accepted.
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- Thread starter
- #196
Alright, I guess we should get started then, whoever is editing profiles besides myself, try to make sure that every profile through a profile chain eventually links it's way back to Gawain, Heracles, and Karna, that will make it far easier to know why the characters are scaled to Low 7-B and 6-C and who performed the feats, everyone should be able to easily find out where the ratings come from
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To keep things organized, going from class to class works best.
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- Thread starter
- #198
I was gonna handle going series by series starting with Fate/Stay Night, but I guess that method also works, Imma start editing now, but I definitely can't do this alone, this is a ton of profiles we have to edit
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@LSirLancelotDuLacl I've looked at some of your edits and you've missed some things, you're making the profiles "Small City level, possibly Island level", but the characters will be "At least Small City level, possibly Island level+"
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I am doing a few as well.
Which reminds me... we really need to erase that '2-A with Kavacha and Kundala' thing from Karna's profile.
The description of the armor is literally "reduces any attack, physical, magical or conceptual, by 90% of it's potency". I still have no goddamn clue in my head how in the actual fork surviving a 2-A attack for a couple of seconds, with a completely not 2-A sounding justification like that, could ever be enough to earn that rating.
I wanted to edit Karna's page right away since he has one of the main scaling calcs for Low 7-B, but even though I find the detail appalling, can't really change it without having it discussed first.
Edit: Oh yeah, actually forgot the value was changed. Thanks for the reminder.
Which reminds me... we really need to erase that '2-A with Kavacha and Kundala' thing from Karna's profile.
The description of the armor is literally "reduces any attack, physical, magical or conceptual, by 90% of it's potency". I still have no goddamn clue in my head how in the actual fork surviving a 2-A attack for a couple of seconds, with a completely not 2-A sounding justification like that, could ever be enough to earn that rating.
I wanted to edit Karna's page right away since he has one of the main scaling calcs for Low 7-B, but even though I find the detail appalling, can't really change it without having it discussed first.
Edit: Oh yeah, actually forgot the value was changed. Thanks for the reminder.
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