Nasuverse Authority Layers (and a little scalling chain).

[Hasty12345]

It seems like there is too much well-informed disagreement here for this revision to be accepted.

It seems to me the purpose of this thread is to find a suitable scaling chain for these hax, I think it would be beneficial to leave it open, at least for another day or two.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay then.

 

[Regidian]

Amaterasu herself said "(watakushitachi)we lost to the white titan" your argument is too forced and speculative. Tamamo could injure Sefar and what? Karna killed Sefar on Extella, also Amaterasu is not in Extella she is in CCC.

For that it would still lead to contradiction as karna say that Tamamo god(zmaterasu) is stronger than his father (surya) and well surya>karna at this time.

the top Gods of each phanteon should be put on the same level. I don't even know why people put Amaterasu above Zeus while both are the top Gods of their phanteon and have equal feats.

Shiva's trishula when its power was limited/greatly reduced could make a Beast like Kama/Mara scream in pain and almost killed her, leaving her on the verge of death.

Zeus could kill Sefar who ended many phanteon.

Amaterasu being a threat equal to Goetia.

Mesopotamian top Gods could seal Beast like Tiamat in Imaginary Number Space.

IMO they're on par with each other.

In this thread i don't have place amaterasu as hard to place her in. (She will still be above ibuki but just don't by how much)

For the top god them not being in same tier for most of people is due to the quirinus and zeus, and quetz and tiamat feat.

For shiva yeah but it would still lead to Arjuna alter to be supperior, because composite Hindu god sheningann(except kama and ganesha)

Only Composite Zeus was able to kill Sefar, PH Zeus got killed.

Anyways i mean for the scalling chain we have now with the people in what do you think about it? Do you think need more change or other peoole to add?

 

[Regidian]

It seems like there is too much well-informed disagreement here for this revision to be accepted.

We should preferably close this thread.

And for that many if the discussion is about thing that would need his proper crt to be talk and so should not change the crt now (like BB scaling), for makenai i have already made some change he want and so ask if we need other change he think.for blue wait for other argument etc, and this is not really a revision but a discussion about scalling of a power in verse and so it's need a good amount of discussion because it's need to be more correct possible

 

[Antvasima]

I will unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can send me a message if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I will unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can send me a message if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion.

Don't problem, if things settle here you will be contacted, until then you don't need to trouble with this and can focus in other things.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I know this could sound bad, but because this is a scaling chain about authorities instead of power itself, shouldn't be possible to make a scaling chain based only in the amount of god of each tier? I mean, if mid tier divinity isn't affected by low tier divinity, isn't possible to count the amount of low tier divinities and base on it the amount of resistance? For example, if the amount of low tier gods is 10, then the position of mid tier gods would be 11, and if there are 22 mid tier gods, the position in the chain of high gods would be 33 in the scaling chain, and the composition gods are above all the gods that exist that aren't of even a higher tier than them.

I know this is a proposition very simple, but I see it as the best way to make a scaling chain based only in the tier of gods without mix it with the power itself of each individual, because as far I know the hieracy of gods in Fate is strict in the senses that lower gods don't have the right to oppose higher gods ignoring the power of the respective gods. That's if I'm not wrong even the reason as to why even though Zeus was more powerful than Quirinus, he couldn't win against it when the things were changed to the pantheon of Quirinus.

After that it can be discussed if wanted the position of each god in the same tier of divinity to adjust the minor details of the hierarchy, but I can see this leading again to a debate of the power itself of the characters instead of the scaling of divinity, so I don't recommend this.

 

[Regidian]

I know this could sound bad, but because this is a scaling chain about authorities instead of power itself, shouldn't be possible to make a scaling chain based only in the amount of god of each tier? I mean, if mid tier divinity isn't affected by low tier divinity, isn't possible to count the amount of low tier divinities and base on it the amount of resistance? For example, if the amount of low tier gods is 10, then the position of mid tier gods would be 11, and if there are 22 mid tier gods, the position in the chain of high gods would be 33 in the scaling chain, and the composition gods are above all the gods that exist that aren't of even a higher tier than them.

I know this is a proposition very simple, but I see it as the best way to make a scaling chain based only in the tier of gods without mix it with the power itself of each individual, because as far I know the hieracy of gods in Fate is strict in the senses that lower gods don't have the right to oppose higher gods ignoring the power of the respective gods. That's if I'm not wrong even the reason as to why even though Zeus was more powerful than Quirinus, he couldn't win against it when the things were changed to the pantheon of Quirinus.

After that it can be discussed if wanted the position of each god in the same tier of divinity to adjust the minor details of the hierarchy, but I can see this leading again to a debate of the power itself of the characters instead of the scaling of divinity, so I don't recommend this.

We have at last 8 millions god based on kami god and possibly 330 millions more based on hindu pantheon, but like other staff tell, they want a proper higher/lower chain, and so we can't use the number of god

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

But it's a absolute hierarchy, right? Then should be fine to use the number of lower tier gods for a base minimun of resistance, after the position of each god inside their tier can be decided and add the position to the base number of resistance of their tier, using the former example: if in the mid tier divinity A is the god of lower hierarchy inside his tier and B is just above him the things would be A (11) < B (12). That or we apply this type of scaling chain only with the amount of gods in a respective pantheon, in that case when interacting with other pantheons the gods have a level of resistance equal between the position of their tier, without matter the respective amount of lower gods. Other option is just to use the lowball case chossing only the pantheon with the less amount of gods.

It definitely have various flaws but it's the only option I see without touching the power of each god, after all, unless the hierarchy is decided by the level of power then what god is stronger it's something irrelevant.

 

[Strife304]

I'm neutral

Makenai, Blue, Swag, and Strife, the latter without giving much reason, are against it.

If further reason is needed, it's pretty much the scaling with the high ends like Zeus being below Arjuna Alter. Didn't want to rehash the same thing everyone else has been saying.

 

[Regidian]

Okay since most of problem are high end of the scaling chain, i can just make them equal for now till we get better translation about it? So we can have at least a scaling chain for low/mid tier?

 

[Regidian]

Bump

 

[Strife304]

Okay since most of problem are high end of the scaling chain, i can just make them equal for now till we get better translation about it? So we can have at least a scaling chain for low/mid tier?

For now, I'd just wait until the translations give accurate information.. namely on Arjuna Alter. Lostbelt 4 has began its Pre-Release Campaign on NA so it wont be a long wait. I'm playing through everything now in preparation for it, so I wouldn't mind help getting the scaling fixed.

 

[Regidian]

For now, I'd just wait until the translations give accurate information.. namely on Arjuna Alter. Lostbelt 4 has began its Pre-Release Campaign on NA so it wont be a long wait. I'm playing through everything now in preparation for it, so I wouldn't mind help getting the scaling fixed.

Okay so for now i will lake the high end equal till we get better translation.


Since the low and mind doesn't seem to have problem we could probably use it for now.

 

[John985]

IMO the top Gods of each phanteon should be put on the same level.

Im on Makenai on this one. But a problem can arise as well because of composite gods like Zeus and Arjuna Alter, even though its not stated, Amaterasu is also composite god.

 

[Strife304]

Okay so for now i will lake the high end equal till we get better translation.


Since the low and mind doesn't seem to have problem we could probably use it for now.

Yeah, I agree with this

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

So how would look the scaling in the end? How many layers of resistance for example would get a mid tier divinity?

 

[Regidian]

So how would look the scaling in the end? How many layers of resistance for example would get a mid tier divinity?

Depend on what mid tier it's. But if it have the level of eresh/ishtar for now it's 8/9layer.

And people that are last BB tier have 20 layer for now

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Depend on what mid tier it's. But if it have the level of eresh/ishtar for now it's 8/9layer.

Yeah, that was also other question I thought. And in the case of Eresh and Isthar is not using their strongest form, right? In other words god Ishtar and god Eresh in Underworld.

And people that are last BB tier have 20 layer for now

That's interesting, and speaking of them, more or less how would end the gods that compose the Sakura five? Like for example god Artemis and Tiamat.

 

[Regidian]

Yeah, that was also other question I thought. And in the case of Eresh and Isthar is not using their strongest form, right? In other words god Ishtar and god Eresh in Underworld.

That's interesting, and speaking of them, more or less how would end the gods that compose the Sakura five? Like for example god Artemis and Tiamat.

Artemis is a little below for now but she could become higher when we get more lb5 thing. Tiamat i don't know we have nothing that tell that BB and Kazuradrop have perfect replica of her strange so they could be equal or less than her it's why she not in the thing for now till the day nasu decide to let her reappear

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Artemis is a little below for now but she could become higher when we get more lb5 thing. Tiamat i don't know we have nothing that tell that BB and Kazuradrop have perfect replica of her strange so they could be equal or less than her it's why she not in the thing for now till the day nasu decide to let her reappear

Understable, and if there come a day in which Tiamat not only appear again but also become summonable I swear to all the summerian pantheon that I'm gonna spend all the SQ I have for her.

 

[Blueicemonkey]

Amaterasu is also composite god.

I wouldn't say that syncretism is the same as being a 'composite' god. It's just like how Mars also counts as Ares.

But for Amaterasu scaling we have this from Casko's Matrix in Extra:

「アマテラス（垂迹）＝（本地）大日如来（法身）＝（報身）ダキニ天」

Amaterasu (Suijaku) = (Honji) Vairocana (Dharmakāya) = (Sambhogakāya) Dakini-ten

Basically due to syncretism Amaterasu is also the astral body of Shakyamuni.

Which also ties with this from Lostbelt 5.2:

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Bump?