Naruto Upgrades

[Omimi]

no offense but i am speechless that even u KEP are now comparing kage feat to naruto feats to prove anything and ignoring everything and every feats that we have shown.

there nothing to argue here for me when when u ignoring everything and every feats and compare god tier to kage

i am done arguing thanks

again no offense

 

[Amexim]

>"Respectfully" but comes out aggressively swinging as soon as he is pressed, and leaves the same way.

Even when you came in initially, you wrote as if everyone you disagree with is acting irrational and absurd, using unfriendly "common sense" arguments that insult the intelligences of the opposition, and that are designed as buzzword that signal to all who listen that your opponent is irrational.

That phrasing comes off that way by design, whether you believe it is tonally aggressive or not. Anyone with reading comprehension skills and the ability to read tone in general when having conversation could see how absurd you believe those you disagree with are, and it would be hard not to view that. My comment about the staff being hostile wasn't solely directed at you, but by Griffin's unnecessarily condescending attitude to this entire thread, and then you getting in TFO's face when he was aggressively pressing you as you aggressively press everyone else when arguing on the site with your tone and phrasing (seriously, I know we all have to analyze this shit in English classes, so please don't try to play "you can't read tone!" because if you passed high school, you had to, especially when you had to do so to call TFO out). Even my tone and phrasing comes off as really aggressive in point 1, me responding to a hostile atmosphere where everyone is writing angry essays at each other.

I can give you slack on your first post, as my post for part 1 comes off as more aggressive than I was actually intending when it comes to diction and phrasing— rather, I was trying to come off as more aggressive in an inquisitive sense, highly confused at such a strange position— but every other post you made is fairly aggressive. Which is fine on its own— quite a few staff members have this aggressive, slightly condescending tone when debating, as most people do here, me included— intentional or otherwise.

It just really jarring when you get in someone else's face for doing only slightly more than what you do. I wouldn't call saying "Bleach Scaling is terrible as it is based off of a single feat, and you ignoring that there but making that argument here brings up a double standard" in so many words in response to what he perceives as a faulty argument in an aggressive tone a "temper tantrum". I read the thread, and that is my perception, flawed as it may be.

You want to see pure debating? Read IMade. He hasn't gotten aggressive in his tone during his arguments, even as the thread was against him, in both argument and aggression.

 

[Amexim]

TFO was definitely being aggressive. LordGriffin came in with a negative attitude, which at least he acknowledges and apologizes for. There's plenty of aggression here, which, so long as it doesn't reach the point of genuine name calling and slurs being thrown about, should be somewhat acceptable, considering what normally goes on here when debating. Even staff members get a little heated, but everything turns out fine in the end. TFO only gets called out because his dismissal of an argument isn't very subtle, whereas Kep keeps his hidden behind phrases like "Do the minimum math", which is a very aggressive way of insulting someone's argument while disagreeing with it, though this aggression is more phrasing based rather than emotion based.

Point is, if people shouldn't talk like TFO, then everyone in this thread should rephrase how they say things. Or can we be adults and just type, and warn people when shit actually gets heated rather than when someone debates aggressively, despite almost everyone in this thread doing so?

 

[Gemmysaur]

This is getting a tad bit heated.

I kinda agree with IMade on the reading of feats, and that Naruto is only hilariously physically strong with his cloak. I don't even remember anyone but Kaguya and Madara actually testing him physically with Six Paths Cloak roids on.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@IMade

Assuming at the very least Sasuke nor Base Naruto are accepted at 5-B "Physically", how's this for Naruto (And this is in no way a concession):

• At Least 7-A Physically, possibly higher (Able to Block and Tank hits from Momoshiki who effortlessly one shotted the Kage's), 5-B with Ninjutsu (Scaling from Sasuke and Supplied the Chakra to Boruto's Rasengan that Killed Momoshiki)

 

[Omimi]

its normal for anyone to get aggressive when we debating with each-other

so i apologizes for my attitude as-well hope no one take it to their heart so lets calm down everyone and me as-well

 

[TheFinalOrder]

I came in respectfully arguing why I strongly disagreed with the thread and got yelled at because TFO consistently can not handle debating someone with the opposite opinion without being disrespectful, and I'm usually the first to protect him from receiving any punishment.. Can the attitude, Amexim.
You came in, disregarding feats, with nothing but an opinion. Same opinion I know to be hypocritical when you've accepted calcs based on "Single Instances" from other verses as well.

Instead of posting proof to refute my claims to amplify your stance, you doubled down, becoming condescending in the process. So, yeah then I really snapped at you.

You wanna claim I can't "handle a debate" or whatever, well before it's a "debate", you need to learn how to do it right otherwise it's just you trying to push your opinion, which I will not let happen unless you sufficiently rebuttal an argument, to which again, your arguments have not because you have not posted proof.

Like I said, post scans of Anti-Feats or Contradictions to my argument from the source material debunking my argument and i'll concede. "That's" how you debate.

I absolutely hate bringing proof and the opposing party argues with opinions only, trying to pass them off as fact without putting in the work to bring their own proof.

 

[BlackeJan]

I'm sorry but how is Base Adult Naruto being 7-A yet the man one shotted TCM Toneri with his OWN chakra (it's his chakra cause u don't see the black lines on his arm) and seriously people....Base Naruto was able to hang in there with someone who is 5-B himself (RinneSharigan AND Momo) NOT ONLY THAT but his chakra was enough to have Borutos vanishing Rasengan defeat Fused Momo which again he's 5B

 

[AstralKing7]

It's funny how people aren't saying anything about 7A Momoshiki like seriously ƒÿÉ. Tell me why a 5B character would be considered to be using 7A energy just to knock out some fodders???? As well as using that as a reason to say his jutsu aren't 5B??? Seriously does no one see this??? I'm pretty sure scaling doesn't work like this

 

[AstralKing7]

And in fact there are feats being ignored on this thread. Kinshiki himself is 5B, Sasuke scales to Kinshiki who could harm Sasuke who Base is definitely 5B from fighting Momoshiki. Scaling is so simple but people wanna ignore it for some reason tho ƒñªÔÇìÔÖé´©Å

 

[BlackeJan]

I mean I'm not even mad but this is getting a bit ridiculous even when there r these REALLY GOOD FACTS but it's like its bad for them to even be 5B

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

@IMade
Assuming at the very least Sasuke nor Base Naruto are accepted at 5-B "Physically", how's this for Naruto (And this is in no way a concession):

• At Least 7-A Physically, possibly higher (Able to Block and Tank hits from Momoshiki who effortlessly one shotted the Kage's), 5-B with Ninjutsu (Scaling from Sasuke and Supplied the Chakra to Boruto's Rasengan that Killed Momoshiki)

5-B with Ninjutsu is misleading because Base Adult Naruto supplied Boruto with a lot of Chakra to the point the Rasengan was the size of a small house. A casual Rasengan from Base Adult Naruto doesn't approach this size and Rasengan's strength is dependent on size as a key factors is volume as Jiraiya described.

I'm sorry but how is Base Adult Naruto being 7-A yet the man one shotted TCM Toneri with his OWN chakra (it's his chakra cause u don't see the black lines on his arm) and seriously people....

Due to the fact that it wasn't Base Adult Naruto that one shot Toneri. To quote Kep's previous comment on this:

Base Naruto needs to concentrate all of his chakra in KCM3 to one-shot Toneri.

Naruto concentrated the cloak into his fist for that punch.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@IMade

It's not misleading and the Rasengan size doesn't always correlate with its strength. This is proven throughout the Series. You don't see Sasuke weilding Building Size Chidori and things.

And Toneri is going to be stronger than SPSM. I'm trying to do one upgrade at a time, but you guys are reaching into territory i have not covered yet.

 

[BlackeJan]

@IMADE

D-did u not watch the movie? That wasn't his KCM chakra...that was his OWN (I even said that he had no markings) so no that was his Base and did y'all ignore the other feats Base Naruto did?

 

[Omimi]

Base Naruto needs to concentrate all of his chakra


this baseless asumption

nor it was ever state in movie that naruto even used kurama chaka


his hand look same as when he use to save hinata

 

[BlackeJan]

^^^^

No Markings I'm Golden chakra = not KCM/Base Narutos chakra

 

[AstralKing7]

Why do people keep saying it was Kuramas chakra ƒñªÔÇìÔÖé´©Å Narutos chakra is gold. Like others said markings would have appeared on Narutos arms as well.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

@IMade
It's not misleading and the Rasengan size doesn't always correlate with its strength. This is proven throughout the Series. You don't see Sasuke weilding Building Size Chidori and things.

Chidori =/= Rasengan. We are literally told volume is a factor of the Rasengan, trying to use Chidori is a false equivalency.

D-did u not watch the movie? That wasn't his KCM chakra...that was his OWN (I even said that he had no markings) so no that was his Base and did y'all ignore the other feats Base Naruto did?

Omimi's pic isn't the same thing. What Naruto does in Omimi's pic is unknown to us since his arm begins to glow randomly and phases through Hinata.

What Naruto does against Toneri is visually different. Naruto is fully cloak, begins running towards Toneri's fired GWR, an explosion of Chakra appears on Naruto and the Chakra is centered on his hand.

It literally visually shows us the Chakra Cloak exploding and his hand flaring up with Chakra and it's visual effects are different from the scene you and Omimi are thinking of. It's undeniable.

 

[AstralKing7]

The visual effects are like that because in the Hinata scenario he wasn't in Cloak mode. Also Narutos arms look just the same as they did when he saved Hinata. https://youtu.be/FCH5HagBDvc

 

[HST_Master]

Um....his KCM in the last doesn't have markings on the arms.....and what sense would it make for him to stop using KCM and use his own Chakra in the 1st place?

That and also Sasuke didn't tank an attack from a Limbo Clone, he was mid attack and the clone intercepted and defended Madara from him.

And there's alot of circular scaling on Momoshiki and Kinshiki when they scale from Naruto and Sasuke in the 1st place.

 

[Omimi]

fact is naruto (excluding adult naruto )never used kcm partially as how Imade and kep claim to be so burden of proof on them.

 

[AstralKing7]

Momoshiki scales above Kaguya in his fused form. He scales to Naruto in his base form. Kinshiki scales to Sasuke who has 5B durability from taking attacks from Momoshiki in fused form. The same Sasuke who was able to take Kinshikis horn. Sasuke is 5B physically because of this. People keep ignoring this for some reason tho

 

[HST_Master]

Momoshiki scales above Kaguya in his fused form. He scales to Naruto in his base form. Kinshiki scales to Sasuke who has 5B durability from taking attacks from Momoshiki in fused form. The same Sasuke who was able to take Kinshikis horn. Sasuke is 5B physically because of this. People keep ignoring this for some reason tho

>He scales to Base Naruto

That's still circular scaling between him and Naruto

And You're saying Kinshiki scales to Sasuke who scales to Kinshiki

And Sasuke scaling to Momoshiki who scales to Sasuke.

This is pretty circular

 

[BlackeJan]

Um....his KCM in the last doesn't have markings on the arms.....and what sense would it make for him to stop using KCM and use his own Chakra in the 1st place?

W....what? His KCM does have markings....and Narutos chakra in the Last is gold (it was also gold in the manga as well but during the series they made his chakra blue instead). Also the entire time Naruto was holding back so he decided to say screw it and end it in one shot but yes I can see why u would ask that question cause I never understood that myself unless Naruto was doing it for giggles (which he pretty much was)

 

[AstralKing7]

Momoshiki shouldn't be scaling to Sasuke. Sasuke should be scaling to Momoshiki not the other way around. Kinshikis physical AP scales to Sasuke's durability which scales to fused Momoshiki. Sasuke therefore should have 5B physical AP for being able to fight Kinshiki and take his horn.

Momoshiki should not be scaling to Naruto in his fused form. If he does then that just has to be changed cause fused Momoshiki scales to Kaguya. Base Momoshiki scales to knocking out SOSP Naruto who isn't 5B from Momoshiki. Same for Sasuke. Momoshiki should not be scaling to Sasuke because he scales above Kaguay

 

[Omimi]

Hst master wrote:
what sense would it make for him to stop using KCM and use his own Chakra in the 1st place?

• he did stop using kcm and he was on base mod then lighting up his hand thats was shown in the movie

That and also Sasuke didn't tank an attack from a Limbo Clone,

• he did and we proved that with actual manga scane unlike u and others who didn't showed us anything dother then only gave your opinion
• feats shown>>>>>>>>>>>>anyone opinion

And there's alot of circular scaling on Momoshiki and Kinshiki when they scale from Naruto and Sasuke in the 1st place.

• its like it happen in only NV

 

[Omimi]

>He scales to Base Naruto

And You're saying Kinshiki scales to Sasuke who scales to Kinshiki

And Sasuke scaling to Momoshiki who scales to Sasuke.

This is pretty circular

kin and momo scale from sasuke

• sasuke chidori/sword has 5-b AP so if some on tank it then he will be 5-B
• both momo and kin tank it so their dura scale from it

sasuke scale from limbo madara

• madara limbo has 5-B AP/ dura cuz he can hurt RSM or tank an attack from him(same as how rsm naruto can hurt him/tank an attack from )

if 2 character on same lvl then they can hurt each-other nothing is new here

 

[HST_Master]

@Blacke

>His Chakra is Gold

So is KCM. And no. His KCM does not have markings on the arms in the last. He concentrated all of KCM into his fist. Not his own Chakra.

@Astral

But you 1st said Fused Momoshiki scales to base Naruto.....and wasn't it said by Sasuke that he purposely took the attack to protect the villagers?

And where is Kaguya coming into the mix from? Literally the only thing we got was Sasuke saying Momoshiki was a greater threat.

And Kinshiki is still scaling from Sasuke. Who's scaling from now Naruto who's also scaling from Momo.

@Omimi

•Look to what I said to Jan

he did and we proved that with actual manga scane unlike u and others who didn't showed us anything dother then only gave your opinio feats shown>>>>>>>>>>>>anyone opinion

Umm... no infact Imade pulled up the scan himself. Simply calling it an opinion doesn't debunk anything. Hell, we even see in the anime that Sasuke was on the offensive.

its like it happen in only NV

That makes it okay?

 

[HST_Master]

@Omimi

Except the Limbo Clone didn't attack Sasuke. He defended Madara from him.

And again Scaling Momo and Kinshiki between Sasuke's base and themselves is circular.

 

[Mindovin]

I agree on 5-B Base Adult(Hokage) Naruto.

I agree that Limbo clone didn't attack Sasuke and Naruto. I don't know is acceptable to use the anime version but I share it regardless and it happens at 10:10.

I don't agree with Naruto and Sasuke are equal in ap, ss and durability.

First thing first, Naruto is play defense until Indra's Arrow came out.

50% SPSM Naruto's casual (created in one at most 2 panels and isn't that big) TBB (before exploding which is don't scale to the explosion itself)stalemate against Rinnegan Sasuke's Susano'o Chidori while explosion itself damaged both Sasuke's Susano'o and Kurama Avatar. Sasuke's couldn't harm KA while KA's tail attack destroyed Susano'o's sword.

50% SPSM Naruto's clones contented against killing intent Sasuke's Six Paths Susano'o. SPS Sasuke's attackdidn't pass TBBs and destroyed with the explosio . Ashura Avatar only used creating Six Paths: Ultra-Big Ball Rasenshuriken against Indra's Arrow which itself Sasuke's most powerful technique in that point of time.

While Naruto several times withstand Kaguya's potentially most powerful offensive attack and overpowered the same attack later , bloodlust Naruto blitz and severed her arm and reacts her teleport ability which commented by BZ for his reflexes while Sasuke's Susano'o one shotted by Kaguya 2 times and she reacts to him.

With all this happens Adult Naruto gains another %50 Kurama while Sasuke lost the tailed beasts.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

-Sigh-

@IMade

There is something you're not quite understanding here. Base Naruto scales from Sasuke, this is something that is not debatable. Just like Sasuke, Naruto in base has access to copious amounts of SPC which causes their AP to be 5-B. Thus, on simply scaling from Sasuke, Naruto's Ninjutsu would be 5-B unless you want to make the claim only Sasuke can use Six Paths Chakra outside of things like Susanoo and such, which is baseless. Naruto's jutsu also wouldn't have to be building size just for that, that notion ignores chakra control in part and we proof that his Jutsu don't have to be "big" to be using higher AP, the most recent showing of this I can think of off top my head is in the last:

• Chakra Fist > Odama Rasengan > Odama Rasengan Barrage (With Larger Rasengan) > FRS.

In addition to this, you are not correctly, quoting Jiraiya explaining Rasengan to prove your point. Nothing Jiraiya explains about Rasengan implies it always has to be large to have a greater AP (I'll post scans tomorrow when I get to a computer) and the feats cited from the last drives this point home. So yes, there is precedence in canon saying Naruto's Jutsu doesn't don't have to be large and it's implicit in the narrative that Base Naruto ~ Base Sasuke.

@HST Master

If you are going to claim Sasuke didn't tank getting hit by a Limbo, you have to realize that Sasuke's positioning disproves him blocking anything from the Limbo with his sword and he was sent skidding back, which is proof he was hit with a force. The fact remains that Sasuke was interrupted mid attack by a limbo and knocked back with a force. Note: That Same force overcame a kick from Naruto who rushed to protect Sakura.

 

[HST_Master]

@Mindovin

All of those are from SPSM Teen Naruto tho. The thread is about how Base Naruto the last onwards scales.

 

[Omimi]

@Hst

Sasuke blocked an attack from limbo thats what shown in manga

then u /imade said nope he didnt = u/imade are disagreeing with manga

fact is naruto (excluding adult naruto )never used kcm partially as how Imade and kep and u claim to be so burden of proof on them and u so .....................

 

[HST_Master]

@TFO

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NpGjj6ehffk&t=1740s

28:50 shows Sasuke attacking and getting deflected as a result. He was not tanking anything

 

[HST_Master]

@Hst

fact is naruto (excluding adult naruto )never used kcm partially as how Imade and kep and u claim to be so burden of proof on them and u so .....................

And what does this prove exactly? Cuz The Last Naruto is Adult Naruto and uses his KCM exactly like that.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@TFO
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NpGjj6ehffk&t=1740s

28:50 shows Sasuke attacking and getting deflected as a result. He was not tanking anything

The anime isn't canon and doesn't even follow portrayal accurately.

 

[HST_Master]

The anime isn't canon and doesn't even follow portrayal accurately.

And yet the anime shows clearly what's happening with Sasuke. He didn't tank the Limbo Clone, he was on the offensive.

 

[Omimi]

And what does this prove exactly? Cuz The Last Naruto is Adult Naruto and uses his KCM exactly like that.

last naruto is 19 years teen adult naruto and i am talking about 30+ years old adult naruo who has shown to used kcm partially or chakra arms in base

1.only 30+ years old adult naruo has/used kcm partially

2.anything 19 years teen adult do that can be scale to 30+ years old adult naruo

3.but what ever 30+ years old adult naruo does it does not scale to 19 years teen adult naruto

u are simply asking backward scaling which is wrong

so thats prove somthing

example: 19 years teen adult naruto has Intangibility but but 16 old naroto doesn't

 

[HST_Master]

And the last naruto uses KCM Partially. In fact that's where it debuted.

I'm not asking for backwards scaling. I said that The Last Naruto is using KCM Partially unlike you and others who were trying to say it was his own Chakra. Idk where you're insinuating backwards scaling from or how.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

The anime isn't canon and doesn't even follow portrayal accurately.

And yet the anime shows clearly what's happening with Sasuke. He didn't tank the Limbo Clone, he was on the offensive.
Yeah..."In the noncanon anime".