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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

MinatoSparkle said:
The good ol' progressive mindset ain't pushing luck šŸ˜”

Um...Arc didn't find the fault in his argument, that was me. In all honesty the CRT probably woulda been passed and applied if no one brought up that MTL thing
Click to expand...
Thank you Sparkle for the reply. Thank you for the downgrade too.
 
Samlex1234 said:
With all due respect, I think we can agree that the argument presented was quite weak. I have to ask, did you apply the same level of scrutiny to this as you would for any other Naruto 4-B argument, such as MAS? I know how thorough you can be, so itā€™s makes no logical sense that ARC would post that. This makes me wonder if your relationship with ARC might be affecting your objectivity. Please take a moment to reflect on thisšŸ™.
Click to expand...
Level of energy NEVER seen before =/= strongest, as I'm pretty sure I've said before. I agree with MAS>ETSO, but it's obvious either way that the wording isn't the same.
Samlex1234 said:
Thank you Sparkle for the reply. Thank you for the downgrade too.
Click to expand...
I don't understand what ur tryna say with this message
 
PZLzB7s.png
 
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Samlex1234 said:
With all due respect, I think we can agree that the argument presented was quite weak. I have to ask, did you apply the same level of scrutiny to this as you would for any other Naruto 4-B argument, such as MAS? I know how thorough you can be, so itā€™s makes no logical sense that ARC would post that. This makes me wonder if your relationship with ARC might be affecting your objectivity. Please take a moment to reflect on thisšŸ™.
Click to expand...
As a matter of fact, I have applied the same level of scrutiny to it.

I do not believe the MAS statement is anywhere near as good as ya'll think it is for various reasons.
And more importantly, I do not think it's the same as the Baryon Mode statement either. They're simply very different.

"Level of energy never seen before" =/= "Strongest Ninjutsu in reference to Naruto and Sasuke's arsenal".

Obviously, I no longer agree with the BM thing either, but before the counterarguments were made, I really did think it was solid for a partial rating at least.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
As a matter of fact, I have applied the same level of scrutiny to it.

I do not believe the MAS statement is anywhere near as good as ya'll think it is for various reasons.
And more importantly, I do not think it's the same as the Baryon Mode statement either. They're simply very different.

"Level of energy never seen before" =/= "Strongest Ninjutsu in reference to Naruto and Sasuke's arsenal".

Obviously, I no longer agree with the BM thing either, but before the counterarguments were made, I really did think it was solid for a partial rating at least.
Click to expand...
Thanks for giving me your attention.

Why will it be Strongest Ninjutsu in reference to Naruto and Sasuke's arsenal
When this is the statement we have below

The strongest ninjutsu, which allows Susanoo to be equipped onto kurama

Hope you know that you yourself attached that ā€œin reference to Naruto and sasuke arsenal ā€œ

The above says the strongest ninjutsu period no plus or minus.

Now this is why I mentioned baryon mode.

Level of energy never seen before
ā€œIn reference to Naruto and Kurama energy ā€œ

I mean it is a the same interpretation. But you scrutinize one better than the other?
 
Samlex1234 said:
Thanks for giving me your attention.

Why will it be Strongest Ninjutsu in reference to Naruto and Sasuke's arsenal
When this is the statement we have below

The strongest ninjutsu, which allows Susanoo to be equipped onto kurama

Hope you know that you yourself attached that ā€œin reference to Naruto and sasuke arsenal ā€œ

The above says the strongest ninjutsu period no plus or minus.

Now this is why I mentioned baryon mode.

Level of energy never seen before
ā€œIn reference to Naruto and Kurama energy ā€œ

I mean it is a the same interpretation. But you scrutinize one better than the other?
Click to expand...
The difference is that the Baryon Mode statement wasn't attached to a Vjump entry dedicated to Naruto and Sasuke's arsenal.

That being said, yes, it is somewhat valid to say that the "unseen level of energy" was possibly in reference to Naruto and Kurama themselves. That is an interpretation I simply hadn't thought of.
 
Samlex1234 said:
Thanks for giving me your attention.

Why will it be Strongest Ninjutsu in reference to Naruto and Sasuke's arsenal
When this is the statement we have below

The strongest ninjutsu, which allows Susanoo to be equipped onto kurama

Hope you know that you yourself attached that ā€œin reference to Naruto and sasuke arsenal ā€œ

The above says the strongest ninjutsu period no plus or minus.

Now this is why I mentioned baryon mode.

Level of energy never seen before
ā€œIn reference to Naruto and Kurama energy ā€œ

I mean it is a the same interpretation. But you scrutinize one better than the other?
Click to expand...
true

the BM statement can be interpretated as the highest point naruto's reached if you consult AI or MTL, it's hinging on the site to say a common hype-y phrase

versus the MAS gets two blatant statements

-strongest wargod
AND
-strongest ninjutsu

I don't see how you can ever in good faith argue MAS is worse
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
The difference is that the Baryon Mode statement wasn't attached to a Vjump entry dedicated to Naruto and Sasuke's arsenal.

That being said, yes, it is somewhat valid to say that the "unseen level of energy" was possibly in reference to Naruto and Kurama themselves. That is an interpretation I simply hadn't thought of.
Click to expand...
Thanks for agreeing. But letā€™s think about this for a moment: what was the real purpose of the V-Jump statement? It was clearly to hype up Naruto and Sasuke for their fight against fuses Momoshiki.

Now, youā€™re telling me that V-Jump is stating their combined attack is their strongest ninjutsu? Why even make that statement at all? Of course, it should be! Itā€™s a combined attack from Naruto and sasuke, so obviously it would be their most powerful technique that needs no hype statement, the fans know that.


However, We saw how both Naruto and Sasuke were struggling individually against Fused Momoshiki golem. Then, all of a sudden, they unleashed their combined attack, and boom there goes ā€œTHE THREAT OF AN EXISTENCE EVEN GREATER THAN KAGUYA.ā€

mind you we know that Kaguya with Etso was the last threat seen yet this dude that was supposed to be a threat greater than Kaguya just got destroyed. Lol indeed it is the strongest ninjutsu of all time it is a threat to the threatā€™s.
 
Samlex1234 said:
Thanks for agreeing. But letā€™s think about this for a moment: what was the real purpose of the V-Jump statement? It was clearly to hype up Naruto and Sasuke for their fight against fuses Momoshiki.

Now, youā€™re telling me that V-Jump is stating their combined attack is their strongest ninjutsu? Why even make that statement at all? Of course, it should be! Itā€™s a combined attack from Naruto and sasuke, so obviously it would be their most powerful technique that needs no hype statement, the fans know that.


However, We saw how both Naruto and Sasuke were struggling individually against Fused Momoshiki golem. Then, all of a sudden, they unleashed their combined attack, and boom there goes ā€œTHE THREAT OF AN EXISTENCE EVEN GREATER THAN KAGUYA.ā€

mind you we know that Kaguya with Etso was the last threat seen yet this dude that was supposed to be a threat greater than Kaguya just got destroyed. Lol indeed it is the strongest ninjutsu of all time it is a threat to the threatā€™s.
Click to expand...
You do realize that 99% of hype statements relay very obvious and usually redundant information, right? It's usually not meant to relay any earth shattering info, just some flashy exposition meant to create hype - hence the name, "hype text". So, yes, it calling Naruto and Sasuke's strongest ninjutsu......their strongest ninjutsu, is quite standard.
The actual meaty, relevant information is delivered in the actual paragraph that follows the title/hype text.
 
Samlex1234 said:
Thanks for agreeing. But letā€™s think about this for a moment: what was the real purpose of the V-Jump statement? It was clearly to hype up Naruto and Sasuke for their fight against fuses Momoshiki.

Now, youā€™re telling me that V-Jump is stating their combined attack is their strongest ninjutsu? Why even make that statement at all? Of course, it should be! Itā€™s a combined attack from Naruto and sasuke, so obviously it would be their most powerful technique that needs no hype statement, the fans know that.


However, We saw how both Naruto and Sasuke were struggling individually against the Fused Momoshiki golem. Then, all of a sudden, they unleashed their combined attack, and boom there goes ā€œTHE THREAT OF AN EXISTENCE EVEN GREATER THAN KAGUYA.ā€

mind you we know that Kaguya with Etso was the last threat seen yet this dude that was supposed to be a threat greater than Kaguya just got destroyed. Lol indeed it is the strongest ninjutsu of all time it is a threat to the threatā€™s.
Click to expand...
Also to add to this

Producing a god of war with the strongest offense and defense!!

Notice it says the strongest offense and defense it never said their strongest offense and defence you said that. Notice it says The god of war not their god of war in fact it is supposed to be in comparison with others it is supposed to stand above others.


ā€œA god of warā€ ā€œthe strongest offense and defenseā€
 
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UchihaSlayer96 said:
You do realize that 99% of hype statements relay very obvious and usually redundant information, right? It's usually not meant to relay any earth shattering info, just some flashy exposition meant to create hype - hence the name, "hype text". So, yes, it calling Naruto and Sasuke's strongest ninjutsu......their strongest ninjutsu, is quite standard.
The actual meaty, relevant information is delivered in the actual paragraph that follows the title/hype text.
Click to expand...
Eh, this is usually clarified though. There's a difference between "the" and "their," and the MAS statement uses the former.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
You do realize that 99% of hype statements relay very obvious and usually redundant information, right? It's usually not meant to relay any earth shattering info, just some flashy exposition meant to create hype - hence the name, "hype text". So, yes, it calling Naruto and Sasuke's strongest ninjutsu......their strongest ninjutsu, is quite standard.
The actual meaty, relevant information is delivered in the actual paragraph that follows the title/hype text.
Click to expand...
bro the strongest statement isnt from the hype title, it's the side text šŸ˜­

IMG_0948.png
 
MinatoSparkle said:
Eh, this is usually clarified though. There's a difference between "the" and "their," and the MAS statement uses the former.
Click to expand...
"Their" isn't really needed because the whole page is about Naruto and Sasuke's stuff and nothing else.
Like, it mentions Sasuke's ninjutsu and what he excels at. Then it mentions Naruto's stuff. (Or maybe I got the order wrong, but it doesn't matter, same difference)
Then it mentions that the MAS is the strongest ninjutsu, because it is their strongest jutsu. Seems like a pretty straightforward conclusion to me. Like, it's just saying that their combination jutsu results in their strongest jutsu, which is obvious, yes, but these entries usually do state the obvious.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Sure, changes absolutely nothing tho.
Click to expand...
it defeats the point of attempting to dismiss it as title hype text so no it does change something (the actual title says MAS: naruto and sasukes combined power)
UchihaSlayer96 said:
"Their" isn't really needed because the whole page is about Naruto and Sasuke's stuff and nothing else.
Like, it mentions Sasuke's ninjutsu and what he excels at. Then it mentions Naruto's stuff. (Or maybe I got the order wrong, but it doesn't matter, same difference)
Then it mentions that the MAS is the strongest ninjutsu, because it is their strongest jutsu. Seems like a pretty straightforward conclusion to me. Like, it's just saying that their combination jutsu results in their strongest jutsu, which is obvious, yes, but these entries usually do state the obvious.
Click to expand...
by this same logic "of all time" isnt needed and we can infer 4B from it since individual strongest jutsus/speeds get way more descript words
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
"Their" isn't really needed because the whole page is about Naruto and Sasuke's stuff and nothing else.
Like, it mentions Sasuke's ninjutsu and what he excels at. Then it mentions Naruto's stuff. (Or maybe I got the order wrong, but it doesn't matter, same difference)
Then it mentions that the MAS is the strongest ninjutsu, because it is their strongest jutsu. Seems like a pretty straightforward conclusion to me. Like, it's just saying that their combination jutsu results in their strongest jutsu, which is obvious, yes, but these entries usually do state the obvious.
Click to expand...
It never mentioned sasuke jutsu and what he excels at.


Instead, it highlights Narutoā€™s reputation as the strongest shinobi in the world and describes his abilities in detail. It then introduces us to the strongest ninjutsu, with no contradictions to that claim.

This same jutsu was used to defeat an enemy that posed an even greater threat than Kaguya, who wielded the Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb (ETSO). Fused Momoshiki, along with his Golem, is a greater threat than Kaguya with ETSO, further emphasizing the power of Naruto and sasuke.



No this is the Strongest Ninjustu ever. Make sense narratively if you ask me, since Momo is supposed to be > than Kaguya anyway



 
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Samlex1234 said:
It never mentioned sasuke jutsu and what he excels at.


Instead, it highlights Narutoā€™s reputation as the strongest shinobi in the world and describes his abilities in detail. It then introduces us to the strongest ninjutsu, with no contradictions to that claim.

This same jutsu was used to defeat an enemy that posed an even greater threat than Kaguya, who wielded the Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb (ETSO). Fused Momoshiki, along with his Golem, is a greater threat than Kaguya with ETSO, further emphasizing the power of Naruto and sasuke.
Click to expand...
samlex, drop your low 1-C Naruto scale. let's hear it
 
on further review i dont blame others for being conservative about this, one day we will have in-depth discussion about this with several scans and consistency arguments backing it up so for now lets leave it at that, gets exhausting and I don't wish to keep arguing about this unless the opposition has a truly good counter arguments other than demanding unreasonably specific things.
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
demanding unreasonably specific things.
Click to expand...
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"
Have you ever heard of this? Like, yes, if you want to upgrade dozens of characters by millions of times off of vague and circumstantial statements, the burden of proof placed on you will naturally be much higher than normal. If the claims were as solid as you say, this shouldn't really be a problem.
 
Ryzen7900X said:
samlex, drop your low 1-C Naruto scale. let's hear it
Click to expand...
I have never once in my life claimed 1-C Naruto. Well I understand your tactics you are trying to make it look like I'm arguing for an upscale without concrete evidence. Trying to make me look dumb like 4b naruto is such a no no. Do you, man
 
Is it really that hard to understand that for those of us who believe Uzuhiko is a very likely cap for those Hidari level and weaker, would find the more conservative interpretations of the MAS more appealing? I understand that for those who donā€™t view Uzuhiko as a soft cap that you may view those statements as equivocal, but put yourself in our shoes for a sec.

One statement is contextualized by Naruto reaching a never before seen tier of power, bolstered by the 8 paths narrative (6 paths with Kaguya -> 8 paths with Isshiki -> 10 paths with Shibai), that weā€™d be more inclined to find the higher end interpretation of the Baryon Mode to possess a good degree of likelihood.

The other statement, ignoring any debate about whether itā€™s a generalized or contextualized to NaruSasuā€™s arsenal, is contextualized below Uzuhiko (based on the fact we accept Hidari > Jigen > MAS), which we believe to be a ~5-B soft cap, would make us more inclined towards the lower end interpretation.

When we (Slayer, myself, Net, whoever) disagree with the notion of the MAS statement being as good or better than the BM statement, we arenā€™t looking at the statements in a vacuum. Weā€™re proceeding under the baseline that the Uzuhiko soft cap contextualizes things. Which yall are obviously free to disagree with, but that doesnā€™t make us inconsistent or hypocritical with our reasoning, rather weā€™re being very self consistent with the viewpoints we hold.
 
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