Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

[MinatoSparkle]

Sparkle are you slayer?

Level of energy NEVER seen before =/= strongest

Level of energy never seen before" =/= "Strongest

 

[Samlex1234]

Sparkle are you slayer?

I apologize for this sparkle

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Tbh, we have been agreeing at an alarming rate lately....
Something is off

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

this dude is legit a fictional character at this point, can we make a profile for him?

THIS IS FRYING ME LMFAOO

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Tbh, we have been agreeing at an alarming rate lately....
Something is off

Sparkle is in the basement with you isn't he?

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Is there anything that gets Kaguya’s Juubi past Tier 6-B?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I mean my midball for Kurama is like High 6-A to 5-C, so if you are slightly more generous with how you interpret certain statements for Kurama, then yeah by extension Juubi gets past 6-B.

 

[Ryzen7900X]

I mean my midball for Kurama is like High 3-A to 2-C, so if you are slightly more generous with how you interpret certain statements for Kurama, then yeah by extension Juubi gets past 2-B.

--Samlex1234

 

[Samlex1234]

As a matter of fact, I have applied the same level of scrutiny to it.

I do not believe the MAS statement is anywhere near as good as ya'll think it is for various reasons.
And more importantly, I do not think it's the same as the Baryon Mode statement either. They're simply very different.

"Level of energy never seen before" =/= "Strongest Ninjutsu in reference to Naruto and Sasuke's arsenal".

Obviously, I no longer agree with the BM thing either, but before the counterarguments were made, I really did think it was solid for a partial rating at least.

Thanks for giving me your attention.

Why will it be Strongest Ninjutsu in reference to Naruto and Sasuke's arsenal
When this is the statement we have below

The strongest ninjutsu, which allows Susanoo to be equipped onto kurama

Hope you know that you yourself attached that “in reference to Naruto and sasuke arsenal “

The above says the strongest ninjutsu period no plus or minus.

Now this is why I mentioned baryon mode.

Level of energy never seen before
“In reference to Naruto and Kurama energy “

I mean it is a the same interpretation. But you scrutinize one better than the other?

 

[SlendVeny]

--Samlex1234

Actually, the 2-B is Matatabi.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Thanks for giving me your attention.

Why will it be Strongest Ninjutsu in reference to Naruto and Sasuke's arsenal
When this is the statement we have below

The strongest ninjutsu, which allows Susanoo to be equipped onto kurama

Hope you know that you yourself attached that “in reference to Naruto and sasuke arsenal “

The above says the strongest ninjutsu period no plus or minus.

Now this is why I mentioned baryon mode.

Level of energy never seen before
“In reference to Naruto and Kurama energy “

I mean it is a the same interpretation. But you scrutinize one better than the other?

The difference is that the Baryon Mode statement wasn't attached to a Vjump entry dedicated to Naruto and Sasuke's arsenal.

That being said, yes, it is somewhat valid to say that the "unseen level of energy" was possibly in reference to Naruto and Kurama themselves. That is an interpretation I simply hadn't thought of.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Tbh, we have been agreeing at an alarming rate lately....
Something is off

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Thanks for giving me your attention.

Why will it be Strongest Ninjutsu in reference to Naruto and Sasuke's arsenal
When this is the statement we have below

The strongest ninjutsu, which allows Susanoo to be equipped onto kurama

Hope you know that you yourself attached that “in reference to Naruto and sasuke arsenal “

The above says the strongest ninjutsu period no plus or minus.

Now this is why I mentioned baryon mode.

Level of energy never seen before
“In reference to Naruto and Kurama energy “

I mean it is a the same interpretation. But you scrutinize one better than the other?

true

the BM statement can be interpretated as the highest point naruto's reached if you consult AI or MTL, it's hinging on the site to say a common hype-y phrase

versus the MAS gets two blatant statements

-strongest wargod
AND
-strongest ninjutsu

I don't see how you can ever in good faith argue MAS is worse

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I mean my midball for Kurama is like High 6-A to 5-C, so if you are slightly more generous with how you interpret certain statements for Kurama, then yeah by extension Juubi gets past 6-B.

Where do you get 5-C from?

 

[Samlex1234]

The difference is that the Baryon Mode statement wasn't attached to a Vjump entry dedicated to Naruto and Sasuke's arsenal.

That being said, yes, it is somewhat valid to say that the "unseen level of energy" was possibly in reference to Naruto and Kurama themselves. That is an interpretation I simply hadn't thought of.

Thanks for agreeing. But let’s think about this for a moment: what was the real purpose of the V-Jump statement? It was clearly to hype up Naruto and Sasuke for their fight against fuses Momoshiki.

Now, you’re telling me that V-Jump is stating their combined attack is their strongest ninjutsu? Why even make that statement at all? Of course, it should be! It’s a combined attack from Naruto and sasuke, so obviously it would be their most powerful technique that needs no hype statement, the fans know that.


However, We saw how both Naruto and Sasuke were struggling individually against Fused Momoshiki golem. Then, all of a sudden, they unleashed their combined attack, and boom there goes “THE THREAT OF AN EXISTENCE EVEN GREATER THAN KAGUYA.”

mind you we know that Kaguya with Etso was the last threat seen yet this dude that was supposed to be a threat greater than Kaguya just got destroyed. Lol indeed it is the strongest ninjutsu of all time it is a threat to the threat’s.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Where do you get 5-C from?

Ping me later in discord or sumn if I forget to get back to you busy atm

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Thanks for agreeing. But let’s think about this for a moment: what was the real purpose of the V-Jump statement? It was clearly to hype up Naruto and Sasuke for their fight against fuses Momoshiki.

Now, you’re telling me that V-Jump is stating their combined attack is their strongest ninjutsu? Why even make that statement at all? Of course, it should be! It’s a combined attack from Naruto and sasuke, so obviously it would be their most powerful technique that needs no hype statement, the fans know that.


However, We saw how both Naruto and Sasuke were struggling individually against Fused Momoshiki golem. Then, all of a sudden, they unleashed their combined attack, and boom there goes “THE THREAT OF AN EXISTENCE EVEN GREATER THAN KAGUYA.”

mind you we know that Kaguya with Etso was the last threat seen yet this dude that was supposed to be a threat greater than Kaguya just got destroyed. Lol indeed it is the strongest ninjutsu of all time it is a threat to the threat’s.

You do realize that 99% of hype statements relay very obvious and usually redundant information, right? It's usually not meant to relay any earth shattering info, just some flashy exposition meant to create hype - hence the name, "hype text". So, yes, it calling Naruto and Sasuke's strongest ninjutsu......their strongest ninjutsu, is quite standard.
The actual meaty, relevant information is delivered in the actual paragraph that follows the title/hype text.

 

[Samlex1234]

Thanks for agreeing. But let’s think about this for a moment: what was the real purpose of the V-Jump statement? It was clearly to hype up Naruto and Sasuke for their fight against fuses Momoshiki.

Now, you’re telling me that V-Jump is stating their combined attack is their strongest ninjutsu? Why even make that statement at all? Of course, it should be! It’s a combined attack from Naruto and sasuke, so obviously it would be their most powerful technique that needs no hype statement, the fans know that.


However, We saw how both Naruto and Sasuke were struggling individually against the Fused Momoshiki golem. Then, all of a sudden, they unleashed their combined attack, and boom there goes “THE THREAT OF AN EXISTENCE EVEN GREATER THAN KAGUYA.”

mind you we know that Kaguya with Etso was the last threat seen yet this dude that was supposed to be a threat greater than Kaguya just got destroyed. Lol indeed it is the strongest ninjutsu of all time it is a threat to the threat’s.

Also to add to this

Producing a god of war with the strongest offense and defense!!

Notice it says the strongest offense and defense it never said their strongest offense and defence you said that. Notice it says The god of war not their god of war in fact it is supposed to be in comparison with others it is supposed to stand above others.


“A god of war” “the strongest offense and defense”

 

[MinatoSparkle]

You do realize that 99% of hype statements relay very obvious and usually redundant information, right? It's usually not meant to relay any earth shattering info, just some flashy exposition meant to create hype - hence the name, "hype text". So, yes, it calling Naruto and Sasuke's strongest ninjutsu......their strongest ninjutsu, is quite standard.
The actual meaty, relevant information is delivered in the actual paragraph that follows the title/hype text.

Eh, this is usually clarified though. There's a difference between "the" and "their," and the MAS statement uses the former.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

You do realize that 99% of hype statements relay very obvious and usually redundant information, right? It's usually not meant to relay any earth shattering info, just some flashy exposition meant to create hype - hence the name, "hype text". So, yes, it calling Naruto and Sasuke's strongest ninjutsu......their strongest ninjutsu, is quite standard.
The actual meaty, relevant information is delivered in the actual paragraph that follows the title/hype text.

bro the strongest statement isnt from the hype title, it's the side text

https://media.**********.net/attachments/1077165703062376508/1296970101244956682/IMG_0948.png?ex=67143908&is=6712e788&hm=a8cfe33df1d9a9f16cac10d22c9106cad5c0670e7a916d7c1eb54a06aa928f9a&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=688&height=1186

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Eh, this is usually clarified though. There's a difference between "the" and "their," and the MAS statement uses the former.

"Their" isn't really needed because the whole page is about Naruto and Sasuke's stuff and nothing else.
Like, it mentions Sasuke's ninjutsu and what he excels at. Then it mentions Naruto's stuff. (Or maybe I got the order wrong, but it doesn't matter, same difference)
Then it mentions that the MAS is the strongest ninjutsu, because it is their strongest jutsu. Seems like a pretty straightforward conclusion to me. Like, it's just saying that their combination jutsu results in their strongest jutsu, which is obvious, yes, but these entries usually do state the obvious.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

bro the strongest statement isnt from the hype title, it's the side text

https://media.**********.net/attachments/1077165703062376508/1296970101244956682/IMG_0948.png?ex=67143908&is=6712e788&hm=a8cfe33df1d9a9f16cac10d22c9106cad5c0670e7a916d7c1eb54a06aa928f9a&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=688&height=1186

Sure, changes absolutely nothing tho.

 

[Samlex1234]

bro the strongest statement isnt from the hype title, it's the side text

https://media.**********.net/attachments/1077165703062376508/1296970101244956682/IMG_0948.png?ex=67143908&is=6712e788&hm=a8cfe33df1d9a9f16cac10d22c9106cad5c0670e7a916d7c1eb54a06aa928f9a&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=688&height=1186

The most powerful ninjutsu period not Naruto and sasuke most power ninjutsu . Honestly based on occums razor. MAS is indeed the strongest attack ever.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Sure, changes absolutely nothing tho.

it defeats the point of attempting to dismiss it as title hype text so no it does change something (the actual title says MAS: naruto and sasukes combined power)

"Their" isn't really needed because the whole page is about Naruto and Sasuke's stuff and nothing else.
Like, it mentions Sasuke's ninjutsu and what he excels at. Then it mentions Naruto's stuff. (Or maybe I got the order wrong, but it doesn't matter, same difference)
Then it mentions that the MAS is the strongest ninjutsu, because it is their strongest jutsu. Seems like a pretty straightforward conclusion to me. Like, it's just saying that their combination jutsu results in their strongest jutsu, which is obvious, yes, but these entries usually do state the obvious.

by this same logic "of all time" isnt needed and we can infer 4B from it since individual strongest jutsus/speeds get way more descript words

 

[Samlex1234]

"Their" isn't really needed because the whole page is about Naruto and Sasuke's stuff and nothing else.
Like, it mentions Sasuke's ninjutsu and what he excels at. Then it mentions Naruto's stuff. (Or maybe I got the order wrong, but it doesn't matter, same difference)
Then it mentions that the MAS is the strongest ninjutsu, because it is their strongest jutsu. Seems like a pretty straightforward conclusion to me. Like, it's just saying that their combination jutsu results in their strongest jutsu, which is obvious, yes, but these entries usually do state the obvious.

It never mentioned sasuke jutsu and what he excels at.


Instead, it highlights Naruto’s reputation as the strongest shinobi in the world and describes his abilities in detail. It then introduces us to the strongest ninjutsu, with no contradictions to that claim.

This same jutsu was used to defeat an enemy that posed an even greater threat than Kaguya, who wielded the Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb (ETSO). Fused Momoshiki, along with his Golem, is a greater threat than Kaguya with ETSO, further emphasizing the power of Naruto and sasuke.



No this is the Strongest Ninjustu ever. Make sense narratively if you ask me, since Momo is supposed to be > than Kaguya anyway

 

[Ryzen7900X]

It never mentioned sasuke jutsu and what he excels at.


Instead, it highlights Naruto’s reputation as the strongest shinobi in the world and describes his abilities in detail. It then introduces us to the strongest ninjutsu, with no contradictions to that claim.

This same jutsu was used to defeat an enemy that posed an even greater threat than Kaguya, who wielded the Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb (ETSO). Fused Momoshiki, along with his Golem, is a greater threat than Kaguya with ETSO, further emphasizing the power of Naruto and sasuke.

samlex, drop your low 1-C Naruto scale. let's hear it

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

on further review i dont blame others for being conservative about this, one day we will have in-depth discussion about this with several scans and consistency arguments backing it up so for now lets leave it at that, gets exhausting and I don't wish to keep arguing about this unless the opposition has a truly good counter arguments other than demanding unreasonably specific things.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

demanding unreasonably specific things.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"
Have you ever heard of this? Like, yes, if you want to upgrade dozens of characters by millions of times off of vague and circumstantial statements, the burden of proof placed on you will naturally be much higher than normal. If the claims were as solid as you say, this shouldn't really be a problem.

 

[Samlex1234]

samlex, drop your low 1-C Naruto scale. let's hear it

I have never once in my life claimed 1-C Naruto. Well I understand your tactics you are trying to make it look like I'm arguing for an upscale without concrete evidence. Trying to make me look dumb like 4b naruto is such a no no. Do you, man

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

It never mentioned sasuke jutsu and what he excels at.

It did.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Is it really that hard to understand that for those of us who believe Uzuhiko is a very likely cap for those Hidari level and weaker, would find the more conservative interpretations of the MAS more appealing? I understand that for those who don’t view Uzuhiko as a soft cap that you may view those statements as equivocal, but put yourself in our shoes for a sec.

One statement is contextualized by Naruto reaching a never before seen tier of power, bolstered by the 8 paths narrative (6 paths with Kaguya -> 8 paths with Isshiki -> 10 paths with Shibai), that we’d be more inclined to find the higher end interpretation of the Baryon Mode to possess a good degree of likelihood.

The other statement, ignoring any debate about whether it’s a generalized or contextualized to NaruSasu’s arsenal, is contextualized below Uzuhiko (based on the fact we accept Hidari > Jigen > MAS), which we believe to be a ~5-B soft cap, would make us more inclined towards the lower end interpretation.

When we (Slayer, myself, Net, whoever) disagree with the notion of the MAS statement being as good or better than the BM statement, we aren’t looking at the statements in a vacuum. We’re proceeding under the baseline that the Uzuhiko soft cap contextualizes things. Which yall are obviously free to disagree with, but that doesn’t make us inconsistent or hypocritical with our reasoning, rather we’re being very self consistent with the viewpoints we hold.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

So realistically what’re the series options for Boruto to get around the Momoshiki problem ane what route do you think they’ll take? These are my options (No Particular Order):

1. Sealing Jutsu.
2. Momoshiki & Boruto fighting for Control causes their minds to meld, ala Vegeto or Gojeta.
3. Whatever Doujutsu he gets suppresses Momoshiki’s Consciousness/Soul.
4. Momoshiki’s Soul gets done in via Omnipotence.

 

[Arkenis]

I have never once in my life claimed 1-C Naruto.

If u won't I will.

 

[Arkenis]

So realistically what’re the series options for Boruto to get around the Momoshiki problem ane what route do you think they’ll take? These are my options (No Particular Order):

1. Sealing Jutsu.
2. Momoshiki & Boruto fighting for Control causes their minds to meld, ala Vegeto or Gojeta.
3. Whatever Doujutsu he gets suppresses Momoshiki’s Consciousness/Soul.
4. Momoshiki’s Soul gets done in via Omnipotence.

I don't read the series but knowing Kishimoto personally, I assume Sealing Jutsu or Momoshiki gets killed in a Soul battle.

 

[Naeblis495]

So realistically what’re the series options for Boruto to get around the Momoshiki problem ane what route do you think they’ll take? These are my options (No Particular Order):

1. Sealing Jutsu.
2. Momoshiki & Boruto fighting for Control causes their minds to meld, ala Vegeto or Gojeta.
3. Whatever Doujutsu he gets suppresses Momoshiki’s Consciousness/Soul.
4. Momoshiki’s Soul gets done in via Omnipotence.

power of friendship

 

[Samlex1234]

It never mentioned sasuke jutsu and what he excels at.


Instead, it highlights Naruto’s reputation as the strongest shinobi in the world and describes his abilities in detail. It then introduces us to the strongest ninjutsu, with no contradictions to that claim.

This same jutsu was used to defeat an enemy that posed an even greater threat than Kaguya, who wielded the Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb (ETSO). Fused Momoshiki, along with his Golem, is a greater threat than Kaguya with ETSO, further emphasizing the power of Naruto and sasuke.



No this is the Strongest Ninjustu ever. Make sense narratively if you ask me, since Momo is supposed to be > than Kaguya anyway

Slayer, you haven’t responded to this yet. Can you explain why Naruto and Sasuke’s strongest ninjutsu that they don’t scale to individually is lesser than Kaguya’s most powerful justu? When we know that Momoshiki poses an even greater threat than Kaguya.

The author introduced a being that he claims is the strongest. But you restrict the strongest jutsu of the person he is supposed to be greater than, then you claim she uses chakra greater than hers like the person being introduced does not use chakras from others. When has Otutuski ever had their chakra?

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"
Have you ever heard of this? Like, yes, if you want to upgrade dozens of characters by millions of times off of vague and circumstantial statements, the burden of proof placed on you will naturally be much higher than normal. If the claims were as solid as you say, this shouldn't really be a problem.

I understand that this would be an immense jump and that we would all prefer our metas be grounded in solid and sound argument, preferably irrefutable ones so it is not something anyone can walk in and pick apart and downgrade a whole tier down hence I'm understanding of you and others but "the most powerful ninjutsu" is one of the clearest ways to present a comparison to all shown before to serve as a highlight that the story's characters are truly getting stronger, not simply in individual villains but techniques, battle experience, strategies, something the story has always been doing from part 1 to pain arc to war arc and in Boruto so yes I do consider demanding more is indeed unreasoable, you probably prefer having a strong Tier 5 rating thats grounded in truth more than some Tier 4 jump thats loose so people take Tier 5 seriously which I respect, hence I wish to return to this topic later with greater arguments rather than having it dismissed early on

 

[Samlex1234]

Is it really that hard to understand that for those of us who believe Uzuhiko is a very likely cap for those Hidari level and weaker, would find the more conservative interpretations of the MAS more appealing? I understand that for those who don’t view Uzuhiko as a soft cap that you may view those statements as equivocal, but put yourself in our shoes for a sec.

One statement is contextualized by Naruto reaching a never before seen tier of power, bolstered by the 8 paths narrative (6 paths with Kaguya -> 8 paths with Isshiki -> 10 paths with Shibai), that we’d be more inclined to find the higher end interpretation of the Baryon Mode to possess a good degree of likelihood.

The other statement, ignoring any debate about whether it’s a generalized or contextualized to NaruSasu’s arsenal, is contextualized below Uzuhiko (based on the fact we accept Hidari > Jigen > MAS), which we believe to be a ~5-B soft cap, would make us more inclined towards the lower end interpretation.

When we (Slayer, myself, Net, whoever) disagree with the notion of the MAS statement being as good or better than the BM statement, we aren’t looking at the statements in a vacuum. We’re proceeding under the baseline that the Uzuhiko soft cap contextualizes things. Which yall are obviously free to disagree with, but that doesn’t make us inconsistent or hypocritical with our reasoning, rather we’re being very self consistent with the viewpoints we hold.

Uzuhiko agaiinn. When did Uzuhiko come out my friend? When have we been arguing for MAS? I will prove to them that you are lying. Hold on. No your interpretation of Uzuhiko does not make your argument valid.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Uzuhiko agaiinn. When did Uzuhiko come out my friend? When have we been arguing for MAS? I will prove to them that you are lying. Hold on. No your interpretation of Uzuhiko does not make your argument valid.

You’re certainly free to hold that opinion

 

[MinatoSparkle]

"Their" isn't really needed because the whole page is about Naruto and Sasuke's stuff and nothing else.
Like, it mentions Sasuke's ninjutsu and what he excels at. Then it mentions Naruto's stuff. (Or maybe I got the order wrong, but it doesn't matter, same difference)
Then it mentions that the MAS is the strongest ninjutsu, because it is their strongest jutsu. Seems like a pretty straightforward conclusion to me. Like, it's just saying that their combination jutsu results in their strongest jutsu, which is obvious, yes, but these entries usually do state the obvious.

I don't think it being about their jutsu particularly means such statements are limited to them. The context of the page is more holistically just about Naruto and Sasuke being the pinnacle of strength. It individually calls both of them the strongest shinobi, Sasuke is stated to have the strongest dojutsu, they have the strongest war god, and then it's just adding on to that strongest narrative with them having the strongest ninjutsu.

Like I think it's fine to say it's only about their era since it talks about Naruto being the strongest in the shinobi world as in likely the present world, but it should certainly be comparing the MAS to other characters' ninjutsu.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"
Have you ever heard of this? Like, yes, if you want to upgrade dozens of characters by millions of times off of vague and circumstantial statements, the burden of proof placed on you will naturally be much higher than normal. If the claims were as solid as you say, this shouldn't really be a problem.

Tbh I never really vibed with the Sagan standard since it's presupposing what is considered "extraordinary." Sure you could call it an extraordinary upgrade, but from just a pure scaling lens, one claim isn't more extraordinary than the other just for being higher