Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

[MinatoSparkle]

Arigato Gozaimasu

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

@Godernet get this man he did a Deceived

 

[Deceived3596]

Kawaii Desu Dattebayo

 

[Westcoast5005]

Question does the wiki separate Shisui eye because it seems the left and right are different with one being stronger.

 

[GTsek]

Many people translate "電光石火" or "Denkosekka" as "speed of light", but it is a hyperbole for "extremely fast" or "in a flash", or "at the speed of lightning" or "in an instant" etc... We would have to have access to the kanji, someone has to buy the novel in Japanese .

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Many people translate "電光石火" or "Denkosekka" as "speed of light", but it is a hyperbole for "extremely fast" or "in a flash", or "at the speed of lightning" or "in an instant" etc... We would have to have access to the kanji, someone has to buy the novel in Japanese .

There are lots of Japanese novel PDFs online but I haven't found one for Kakashi Retsuden yet

 

[GTsek]

There are lots of Japanese novel PDFs online but I haven't found one for Kakashi Retsuden yet

I personally find the retsuden novels difficult to find even in english. I have to try harder than a conventional search to find it.

But then, about Minato's statement, I don't believe it's hyperbole. The "undodge" part is, Kishimoto used that expression in Madara's Light Fang statement too, and even Katsuyu's acid statement. The speed of light declaration has literal kanji, and is not in a hype text, I see no reason why it shouldn't be used.

So... Ay is declared to have the same reaction speed as Minato, so he would be SoL too, and Naruto KM1 gave him FTE, so Naruto FTL+

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Lol, It just dawned on me but even if the perceived event was real and Kawaki did kill Naruto; given his power and the situation with Shinju/Otsutsuki, Kawaki would “ultimately” get the Orochimaru Plea Deal because they need his power to protect the world.

 

[SlendVeny]

Lol, It just dawned on me but even if the perceived event was real and Kawaki did kill Naruto; given his power and the situation with Shinju/Otsutsuki, Kawaki would “ultimately” get the Orochimaru Plea Deal because they need his power to protect the world.

Honestly, for Orochimaru, he was only doing that shit to become immortal, and now that he's functionally immortal, he's not going to risk messing it up. Kawaki's explicit goal is to kill himself and others.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I personally find the retsuden novels difficult to find even in english. I have to try harder than a conventional search to find it.

What about the Hiden/Shinden novels?

But then, about Minato's statement, I don't believe it's hyperbole. The "undodge" part is, Kishimoto used that expression in Madara's Light Fang statement too, and even Katsuyu's acid statement. The speed of light declaration has literal kanji, and is not in a hype text, I see no reason why it shouldn't be used.

Yeah I probably agree, the only good counter I can see is it referring to FTG but that doesn't exactly have a speed since it's space time movement.

So... Ay is declared to have the same reaction speed as Minato, so he would be SoL too, and Naruto KM1 gave him FTE, so Naruto FTL+

No proof Ay didn't perceive him

 

[KingogKings777]

Many people translate "電光石火" or "Denkosekka" as "speed of light", but it is a hyperbole for "extremely fast" or "in a flash", or "at the speed of lightning" or "in an instant" etc... We would have to have access to the kanji, someone has to buy the novel in Japanese .

I think I also own that.

 

[GTsek]

What about the Hiden/Shinden novels?

I can find these more easily even in my mother language (Portuguese). But the retsuden series is more complicated.

Yeah I probably agree, the only good counter I can see is it referring to FTG but that doesn't exactly have a speed since it's space time movement.

It really doesn't make sense to be the FTG, and if you take into account that it is said "Light-Speed Blade" It is much more likely to refer to the attack that comes after the FTG. In fact, this expression "Light-Speed blade" is similar to the description of the samurai's "Issen" in Databook 4, so it is more likely that it refers to a physical attack.

No proof Ay didn't perceive him

There is also no proof that he saw it, so we keep the agenda

 

[KingogKings777]

Many people translate "電光石火" or "Denkosekka" as "speed of light", but it is a hyperbole for "extremely fast" or "in a flash", or "at the speed of lightning" or "in an instant" etc... We would have to have access to the kanji, someone has to buy the novel in Japanese .

Here's some raws where the lightening blade should be figure it out from there cause I don't speak it or read it. The first one is legit LS iirc the rest idk.

 

[GTsek]

Here's some raws where the lightening blade should be figure it out from there cause I don't speak it or read it. The first one is legit LS iirc the rest idk.

lol, I doubt you forged it so quickly. doing a quick translation just by looking, I actually see the same content that I read in English.

And about the Raiton attack statement, it is indeed a legitimate SoL statement. It would basically be "A lightning attack at the speed of light", or just "a quick attack at the speed of light". The "lightning attack" refers to what the attack is, that is, it is only stating that it is a lightning release attack, but the speed of it itself is said to be that of light.

About Kakashi's water attack, it's also legitimate, something like "at the speed of a flash of light". The kanji used are always referring to a "luminescence", that is, the light itself. The direct translation into English, including on the Japanese Wikipedia, is "flash of light", always referring to a luminous event.

So yes, both statements are legitimate, Minato's too. Adding these 3 with the other statements, we have about 10 statements of speed of light in Naruto. If there was just one, they could argue that it was atypical, but there are several...

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Here's some raws where the lightening blade should be figure it out from there cause I don't speak it or read it. The first one is legit LS iirc the rest idk.

The 4th and 5th scans don't seem to have any relevant info, but the 1st is legit
雷鳴が爆ぜ、光速の雷撃が土流壁を打つ。
The thunder roared, and a lightning strike as fast as light struck the earth wall.

The 2nd about Kakashi's Water Mist jutsu says it has speed like a flash of light, which seems more like a simile unless "similar to" is meant to be taken at face value, which it doesn't seem like.
閃光のごとき速さで水の渦の前に躍り出る。
With speed like a flash of light, it leaps out in front of the water vortex.

Although honestly that's kinda better, since then it's not a limiter, and via scaling, Hokage Kakashi should be much faster than light.

Also where do you get your novel scans?

 

[GTsek]

Any other verse that had SO MANY statements of the speed of light would be considered. These are statements in all canonical media. Manga, Databook, Novel. Naruto without chakra in the novel Retsuden was nerfed to the level of an ordinary human, but after using the power of Hinata's Byakugan, He can follow and react to light easily.

He himself says he's not even close to Hinata and Hanabi in terms of usage, But it was elevated from the level of a human to the relativistic level at the very least.

 

[SlendVeny]

Any other verse that had SO MANY statements of the speed of light would be considered. These are statements in all canonical media. Manga, Databook, Novel. Naruto without chakra in the novel Retsuden was nerfed to the level of an ordinary human, but after using the power of Hinata's Byakugan, He can follow and react to light easily.

He himself says he's not even close to Hinata and Hanabi in terms of usage, But it was elevated from the level of a human to the relativistic level at the very least.

Dropping to almost no chakra doesn't typically reduce you to normal human level. Is that stated?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Any other verse that had SO MANY statements of the speed of light would be considered. These are statements in all canonical media. Manga, Databook, Novel. Naruto without chakra in the novel Retsuden was nerfed to the level of an ordinary human, but after using the power of Hinata's Byakugan, He can follow and react to light easily.

He himself says he's not even close to Hinata and Hanabi in terms of usage, But it was elevated from the level of a human to the relativistic level at the very least.

Tbf, if and when the P2 speed revisions drop, there'll probably be some LS-FTL proposals for top tiers that are currently Sub-Rel, if Slayer's hints were anything to go by

 

[GTsek]

Dropping to almost no chakra doesn't typically reduce you to normal human level. Is that stated?

The issue is that he literally had ZERO chakra in the chakra tubes . He only had stamina, but he couldn't mold chakra and pass it on the tubes. And yes, it is stated that he was at the level of an ordinary civilian, he was only able to perform superhuman feats after using Hinata's Byakugan through the glasses. The chakra tubes refused his own chakra because whenever he molded, Kurama's chakra came with it, and the body considered Kurama's chakra as an invader. Basically how allergies work. Other people's chakra was not refused and they could enter in his tubes, so Hinata's Byakugan chakra is placed in the glasses and then passes through his body, so he can perform superhuman feats.

 

[GTsek]

Tbf, if and when the P2 speed revisions drop, there'll probably be some LS-FTL proposals for top tiers that are currently Sub-Rel, if Slayer's hints were anything to go by

I have a feat that can puts the part 1 in subrel depending on the calc. It's in the raiga arc in the anime, which was canonized in Boruto (Anime and novel), but would have to be accepted as canon first. Basically, Lee, Naruto, Neji and Tenten dodge lightning from the clouds. The arc does not have any chronological conflict with the manga, unlike film 5 (which had the events described in Shikamaru's novel).

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Sub-Rel kids sounds sus given other scaling chains

 

[GTsek]

Don't worry, It's the last arc of part 1, it doesn't scale anyone other than them and maybe Sasuke. But it depends on the calculation. Can give maximum end of MHS+.

 

[SlendVeny]

The issue is that he literally had ZERO chakra in the chakra tubes . He only had stamina, but he couldn't mold chakra and pass it on the tubes. And yes, it is stated that he was at the level of an ordinary civilian, he was only able to perform superhuman feats after using Hinata's Byakugan through the glasses. The chakra tubes refused his own chakra because whenever he molded, Kurama's chakra came with it, and the body considered Kurama's chakra as an invader. Basically how allergies work. Other people's chakra was not refused and they could enter in his tubes, so Hinata's Byakugan chakra is placed in the glasses and then passes through his body, so he can perform superhuman feats.

Wait, he used Hinata's CHAKRA? That's different, no one relevant scales off her.

 

[GTsek]

Wait, he used Hinata's CHAKRA? That's different, no one relevant scales off her.

Yes, he uses it. The technology that Orochimaru used on the glasses transfers all the power of the Dojutsu to the glasses. Hinata can't even use Byakugan while the power is in the glasses. At the end of the novel there is a scene of the Dojutsu power returning to her eyes after the glasses break. So yes, she has to be Rel scale or higher, just like Hanabi.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Dam why did no one ever mention that when calling No Chakra Naruto LS?

 

[GTsek]

Because almost no one read it, they only took the parts that talk about lasers and ignore everything else.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Because almost no one read it, they only took the parts that talk about lasers and ignore everything else.

was just about to comment this lol

 

[Testarossa002]

10 light speed statements but only 1 exists in the 800+ manga chapters verse wide

We're never beating the allegations

 

[HelloThere1089]

Idc, FTL land of waves Sasuke is real

 

[Raiden_Azno]

10 light speed statements but only 1 exists in the 800+ manga chapters verse wide

We're never beating the allegations

Which?....

 

[GTsek]

10 light speed statements but only 1 exists in the 800+ manga chapters verse wide

We're never beating the allegations

I would find it strange if all of these were said in the manga. Like, there's no narrator, the character would say "my attack can reach the speed of light"?? It would look extremely weird. The Databook works better, as its function is to provide more detailed information. And in the novels, the narrator passes on this information, so it gets better.

 

[Raiden_Azno]

There's Mabui. Underrated wafiu btw

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I'm curious what are people's rationalizations for the Ethereal Transmission Jutsu not capping the speed of anyone with less than Raikage Ay (3 or 4) durability below light speed. Given that it is directly stated that the speed of the transmission is so fast, that the body cannot keep up, and is thus shredded and lacerated.

 

[GTsek]

I'm curious what are people's rationalizations for the Ethereal Transmission Jutsu not capping the speed of anyone with less than Raikage Ay (3 or 4) durability below light speed. Given that it is directly stated that the speed of the transmission is so fast, that the body cannot keep up, and is thus shredded and lacerated.

My interpretation is that the transference style is also directly responsible for this, as it sort of "dematerializes" the targets. I say that this has more to do with the person's habit of traveling at this speed than durability itself, Because you see, technically every ninja is more resistant than objects, but they are torn apart but any other non-living object is not. I see this more as a transfer style problem.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

My interpretation is that the transference style is also directly responsible for this, as it sort of "dematerializes" the targets. I say that this has more to do with the person's habit of traveling at this speed than durability itself, Because you see, technically every ninja is more resistant than objects, but they are torn apart but any other non-living object is not. I see this more as a transfer style problem.

Right, the jutsu does appear to treat living beings and material objects differently. However, nevertheless, Mabui states (and the databooks state this too) that the only issue with transporting a person is that the speed is too fast for the body to keep up. There's zero implication that it's a deconstruction thing. Furthermore, durability wouldn't play any part in making you tank decon.

 

[HelloThere1089]

How does Haku's jutsu reconcile with this? Isn't he transporting himself at SoL? Is he more durable than the Raikage?

 

[GTsek]

Right, the jutsu does appear to treat living beings and material objects differently. However, nevertheless, Mabui states (and the databooks state this too) that the only issue with transporting a person is that the speed is too fast for the body to keep up. There's zero implication that it's a deconstruction thing. Furthermore, durability wouldn't play any part in making you tank decon.

However, the quiz book only says that it is not possible for a person to withstand the shock of the transfer, unless they have a strong body, it does not talk about speed itself. Even though speed also has some influence on this, the transfer method is also one of the reasons.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

How does Haku's jutsu reconcile with this? Isn't he transporting himself at SoL? Is he more durable than the Raikage?

Maybe distance is a factor

 

[GTsek]

How does Haku's jutsu reconcile with this? Isn't he transporting himself at SoL? Is he more durable than the Raikage?

Exactly, it's probably a question of the method itself. And anyway, I haven't thought of a scale where characters weaker than the base Raikage scale in any way. The Raikage himself has a statement of being comparable to Minato in speed only at Yoroi level 1.

 

[HelloThere1089]

Maybe distance is a factor

Then that would mean the transportation jutsu has no bearing on combat speed. Only long distance transportation would be capped.