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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

HelloThere1089 said:
Without any arbitrary assumptions (so no vaporization end), this would just be 180-640 petatons depending on the type of explosion. If you prove that it's a vaporization, we could reverse engineer the given formula to get a vaporization end.
Click to expand...
I think a Boros calculation for melting or vaporizing the surface to like High 6-A+ like 10s of exaton range.
 
Yeah seems like a dud calc.
One thing I've noticed is that Momoshiki distinguishes between seedbed (which context wise seems to be the planet) and nursery:

image.png

image.png

However, I don't know how fruitful this can be given that we have barely any context for either word
 
NeoKingOfLight said:
Nah. The Boruto lore is fine. They chose a lane, and stayed the course. The problems deals with Kishimoto’s ** up regarding Kaguya’s lore. Minato’s Story was cool, but tbh unnecessary. There was a opportunity to have Kishimoto fix his ** up, but we as a fandom fumbled. 😞
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Ur mom's unnecessary
The_one_you_least_expect said:
he was moving through his mirror soooo…..
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Out of, not between
 
MinatoSparkle said:
Ur mom's unnecessary
Click to expand...
It's been a while since I last saw you defending your Goat
Veronica said:
Is there any evidence for the movie being canon, where Momo creates his dimensions?
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None really. The best argument I'm thinking is to look for Kishimoto's involvement and argue that it could serve as support material for stuff that it doesn't contradict. If we can prove all retcons to simply be cosmetic (Which is not true), I guess a solid argument can be made.
 
SlendVeny said:
Why did Baryon Mode Naruto not simply break Isshiki's neck?
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Both BM Naruto and Isshiki suffered from an acute case of IQ negation. Isshiki didn't lead with Daikokuten even though it's a ranged ability and BM Naruto didn't grapple Isshiki and decided to punch him even though his ability is contact based.
 
HelloThere1089 said:
Both BM Naruto and Isshiki suffered from an acute case of IQ negation. Isshiki didn't lead with Daikokuten even though it's a ranged ability and BM Naruto didn't grapple Isshiki and decided to punch him even though his ability is contact based.
Click to expand...
Was he trying to just one shot Isshiki lmao
 
AlternativePrinciple said:
Does a time frame matter? Its not like Momoshiki was paying energy in installments so that his planet and star can come into existence like a video game.
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Personally, I think offscreen creation feats should be treated as instant.
I don't think a hypothetical character A is spending years creating a dimension
Since this wiki is a more conservative one, it doesn't really work that way here.
Hence the use of assumed timeframes
For example, Chaos from SDS
 
So, I’ve been thinking about Naruto’s Rasengan Barrage and I think the way we handle it is kinda nonsensical. Let me explain…

Yes, we know that the Databook says its > 2x because the inverse rotations, but sans the rotations… doesn't the wiki count simultaneous attacks like this as additive?

Like, we distinguish between two of the same attacks hitting back-to-back, vs two of the same attacks hitting at the same time, right?

So in this case, regardless of inverse rotations, Rasengan Barrage would still be 2x for striking at the same time versus 2 back-to-back strikes, which is not accepted as 2x.
 
Not really cause if i'm right the Naruto universes vastly outnumber the Canon Dragon Ball 2-C, with just one more universe being enough to blink them out of existence...

that's assuming I got it right of course.
 
BlastX said:
Not really cause if i'm right the Naruto universes vastly outnumber the Canon Dragon Ball 2-C, with just one more universe being enough to blink them out of existence...

that's assuming I got it right of course.
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but canon Dragon Ball is low 1-C
 
MinatoSparkle said:
Increases his speed but that's not the part of the jutsu that's light speed
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It is, that’s the whole point of his keakki genkai. He reflects off of mirrors at LS speeds. He traps them in a dome of mirrors so he can hit them from every side. Just because he might not have another mirror to catch him shouldn’t make him magically slower
 
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NeoKingOfLight said:
So, I’ve been thinking about Naruto’s Rasengan Barrage and I think the way we handle it is kinda nonsensical. Let me explain…

Yes, we know that the Databook says its > 2x because the inverse rotations, but sans the rotations… doesn't the wiki count simultaneous attacks like this as additive?

Like, we distinguish between two of the same attacks hitting back-to-back, vs two of the same attacks hitting at the same time, right?

So in this case, regardless of inverse rotations, Rasengan Barrage would still be 2x for striking at the same time versus 2 back-to-back strikes, which is not accepted as 2x.
Click to expand...
@Nierre @MinatoSparkle @Arc7Kuroi
 
Are you saying it's not 2x AP but just hitting you twice aka dealing double damage, like if naruto did back to back rasengans?
 
The_one_you_least_expect said:
It is, that’s the whole point of his keakki genkai. He reflects off of mirrors at LS speeds. He traps them in a dome of mirrors so he can hit them from every side. Just because he might not have another mirror to catch him shouldn’t make him magically slower
Click to expand...
That is an assumption. For all we know, it's a property of the mirrors to reflect off of each other at LS, but aren't LS when just coming out of them. It'd be very inconsistent to say Base Guy and Lee are LS, when even people like Tsunade are injured by moving at LS, and Kirin is so hyped up as undodgeable due to being LS.
NeoKingOfLight said:
So, I’ve been thinking about Naruto’s Rasengan Barrage and I think the way we handle it is kinda nonsensical. Let me explain…

Yes, we know that the Databook says its > 2x because the inverse rotations, but sans the rotations… doesn't the wiki count simultaneous attacks like this as additive?

Like, we distinguish between two of the same attacks hitting back-to-back, vs two of the same attacks hitting at the same time, right?

So in this case, regardless of inverse rotations, Rasengan Barrage would still be 2x for striking at the same time versus 2 back-to-back strikes, which is not accepted as 2x.
Click to expand...
Idk site standards but I would agree multiple attacks hitting at the same time is a relatively proportional amp to the number of attacks
 
MinatoSparkle said:
That is an assumption. For all we know, it's a property of the mirrors to reflect off of each other at LS, but aren't LS when just coming out of them. It'd be very inconsistent to say Base Guy and Lee are LS, when even people like Tsunade are injured by moving at LS, and Kirin is so hyped up as undodgeable due to being LS.
Click to expand...
no it’t not, its never stated nor implied he needs to go threw multiple mirrors to achieve LS. Not really, it just mean they have strong bodies. The raikage can survive being moved at those speeds but that doesn’t make him stronger than her. The fact that a partially blind/sick/ injured itachi could even react to a supposedly unavoidable attack already makes the hype sus
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Are you saying it's not 2x AP but just hitting you twice aka dealing double damage, like if naruto did back to back rasengans?
Click to expand...
Sorta, let me give you a better example.
  1. Character A has a slap that imparts 10,000 Joules.
In this scenario, if the Slap is the Rasengan, the back-to-back would be:
  1. Character A Slaps Character B on the Head, imparting 10,000 Joules, 1 second later, slaps Character B on the head again.
In this scenario, “Back-to-back” isn’t accepted as 2x by wiki standards, right? But, if it is simultaneously done:
  1. Character A slaps Character B with BOTH hands on the head at the same time.
This is considered 2x, but solely on the basis that he is hitting Character B with both hands at the same time, thus imparting 20,000 Joules at once.

So to tie it back into the Rasengan Barrage question, even though the Databook says the attack is >2x because of Inverse Rotations, even if the inverse Rotations were not applicable, hitting with two Rasengans at the same time would still be 2x (Minus the “>”) ANYWAYS, going by the simultaneously example above.

Hopefully that’s not confusing.
 
MinatoSparkle said:
That is an assumption. For all we know, it's a property of the mirrors to reflect off of each other at LS, but aren't LS when just coming out of them. It'd be very inconsistent to say Base Guy and Lee are LS, when even people like Tsunade are injured by moving at LS, and Kirin is so hyped up as undodgeable due to being LS.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm with @The_one_you_least_expect here

There are multiple plausible counter arguments to this
1. The LS transportation stuff with Mabui can be just due to it being "travel speed" rather than short bursts of movement.
Same way flash can die (not stamina issues. He was literally getting burnt to death) by running at Mach 7 multiple times around the earth even though he can move short distances in picoseconds
2. Guy and Lee don't necessarily need to be LS to react and kick Haku
3. Even if they were, it can be chalked down to them being that high due to war arc buffs as we saw with Kakashi
4. There's also the less nice option of chalking it as an outlier for Lee and Guy. We already do the same for Sasuke and Naruto during the initial arc
5. Kirin isn't even a limiter perse. It works as a cap for nearly everything shown in the series prior. As I explained in the original thread, BZ isn't some kind of omnipotent source of information. Otherwise, we'll be applying the cap to characters like Juubi Jin Hagoromo. Further backed up by us seeing Itachi counter the same jutsu a few pages later
 
NeoKingOfLight said:
Sorta, let me give you a better example.
  1. Character A has a slap that imparts 10,000 Joules.
In this scenario, if the Slap is the Rasengan, the back-to-back would be:
  1. Character A Slaps Character B on the Head, imparting 10,000 Joules, 1 second later, slaps Character B on the head again.
In this scenario, “Back-to-back” isn’t accepted as 2x by wiki standards, right? But, if it is simultaneously done:
  1. Character A slaps Character B with BOTH hands on the head at the same time.
This is considered 2x, but solely on the basis that he is hitting Character B with both hands at the same time, thus imparting 20,000 Joules at once.

So to tie it back into the Rasengan Barrage question, even though the Databook says the attack is >2x because of Inverse Rotations, even if the inverse Rotations were not applicable, hitting with two Rasengans at the same time would still be 2x (Minus the “>”) ANYWAYS, going by the simultaneously example above.

Hopefully that’s not confusing.
Click to expand...
I can see what you mean but I want to see Minato's response.
 
MinatoSparkle said:
Idk site standards but I would agree multiple attacks hitting at the same time is a relatively proportional amp to the number of attacks
Click to expand...
I think we only accept that as true if the attacks fuse together. I think we explicitly do not accept that multiple separate attacks occurring concurrently is a multiplier.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
I think we only accept that as true if the attacks fuse together. I think we explicitly do not accept that multiple separate attacks occurring concurrently is a multiplier.
Click to expand...
So, basically it would depend on the feat and how its portrayed. In your opinion, how would a feat like this qualify under verse standards?

You have all 9 hitting simultaneously at roughly the same point, making 1 impact, not 9 separate impacts.

This is essentially the same principle as this, but with 9 instead of two. And as stated before, the databook says its power is >2x because of the inverse rotations but then this leads into the original question I asked above.
 
The_one_you_least_expect said:
no it’t not, its never stated nor implied he needs to go threw multiple mirrors to achieve LS. Not really, it just mean they have strong bodies. The raikage can survive being moved at those speeds but that doesn’t make him stronger than her. The fact that a partially blind/sick/ injured itachi could even react to a supposedly unavoidable attack already makes the hype sus
Click to expand...
What the databook says is that Haku can move between mirrors at the speed of light, not into or out of.

My point is not scaling durability, but that it heavily suggests Tsunade herself is slower than light, probably to a significant degree. And the Sannin are far faster than Base Guy, considering even 6th Gate Guy is only marginally faster than clone nerfed KCM Naruto, who's pretty much in the ballpark of the Gokage or a little higher (given his performance against the Edo Kage). The Sannin having consistent scaling to the Kage (the last thing's not direct but Suigetsu considers Oro a threat to Sasuke despite seeing him battle against Ay and Gaara). If Tsunade's multiple Gates faster than Guy, she really should not be ripped apart by a speed he can handily intercept.

Itachi couldn't dodge it, he just mentally activated an ability. And my point is not that Kirin is literally undodgeable, but that it being considered such makes it being reactable to by the likes of Base Guy and Lee very illogical.
Testarossa002 said:
Yeah, I'm with @The_one_you_least_expect here

There are multiple plausible counter arguments to this
1. The LS transportation stuff with Mabui can be just due to it being "travel speed" rather than short bursts of movement.
Same way flash can die (not stamina issues. He was literally getting burnt to death) by running at Mach 7 multiple times around the earth even though he can move short distances in picoseconds
Click to expand...
I think that's a fair argument, but it's implied that the Raikage are the only ones who can be safely transported with it period, not just over long distances. Also Tsunade and Ay seem to be in pain even before they've been transported out of the room, as if just the build up to LS is too much for them.
Testarossa002 said:
2. Guy and Lee don't necessarily need to be LS to react and kick Haku
Click to expand...
Sure but their speed would need to be relativistic at least, which they are not (at least in base, I'm fine with them being around LS with higher Gates).
Testarossa002 said:
3. Even if they were, it can be chalked down to them being that high due to war arc buffs as we saw with Kakashi
Click to expand...
See what I said above about even 6th Gate Guy only being like Sannin/Gokage level+ in speed
Testarossa002 said:
4. There's also the less nice option of chalking it as an outlier for Lee and Guy. We already do the same for Sasuke and Naruto during the initial arc
Click to expand...
I mean you could do that but reinterpreting if you can reasonably is preferable to just calling things outliers
Testarossa002 said:
5. Kirin isn't even a limiter perse. It works as a cap for nearly everything shown in the series prior. As I explained in the original thread, BZ isn't some kind of omnipotent source of information. Otherwise, we'll be applying the cap to characters like Juubi Jin Hagoromo. Further backed up by us seeing Itachi counter the same jutsu a few pages later
Click to expand...
Either way, Base Guy and Lee (at least Guy prior to the Obito fight where he becomes MKCM Naruto level for some reason) are not intercepting something that almost blitzed Itachi. Or even something that Hebi Sasuke deems undodgeable.
Arc7Kuroi said:
I think we only accept that as true if the attacks fuse together. I think we explicitly do not accept that multiple separate attacks occurring concurrently is a multiplier.
Click to expand...
I mean I don't have a big stake in it, it's just that thinking about it, if you're applying 2 of the same attack to the same area with say 100 TT of force each, that area would be on the receiving end of 200 TT of total energy, even if it's not as concentrated as it would be if it was the surface area of one attack. Also with stuff like the Rasengan Barrage, the Rasengan explosions do tend to merge.
 
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