Naruto: Technique Scaling.

[Akiretsu]

Something has been bothering me dealing with Kaguya but its not necessarily only about Kaguya.

We know that having huge amounts of Chakra doesn't = Greater Stats. Only when you vitalize your body with Chakra does your physical stats go up. (Gates, Chakra Cloaks, etc). So I understand that a persons stats won't necessarily be = to their techniques or whatever. Im on my phone so i can't get the scans but Konohamaru's sensei explains this perfectly to Naruto back in part 1.

Now, for Naruto verse (Not talking about any other verse), they can be scalied stats wise or via any other way possible from their techniques. It's explained that every jutsu requires at certain amount of chakra to use. People like Kaguya are stated to be at a certain level via technique only and thats not true because as explained in verse, every jutsu requires a certain amount of chakra. If we take ETSB as an example, The technique is depended on the chakra moulded for it. So if X amount of chakra produces Planet level feats, via chakra control that same chakra can be routed to other Ninjutsu or Stats.

So what's up with that?

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Kaguya was really only able to do that when amped (or as close to her prime as she possibly could).

However, feats>statements. Though it was stated she became much faster and stronger, though we could use chakra control to upgrade her physical stats, it comes to naught when in actuality, physically she appeared no stronger.

In other words, due to the ridiculous inconsistencies involved, we can't impliment what you're proposing.

 

[Akiretsu]

Yeah, feats of this has been shown multiple times. And I get it, but this at least dictates a "Possible" ranking upgrade in all stats coralating with their highest showing and that "With insert technique only" clause dropped. As for why stats may be inconsistent with Kaguya being superior in stats, that's also not the case.

Its explained that chakra isn't involved with physical stats only ninjutsu. So in the case of Kaguya, Her having the chakra to use Ninjutsu at X level wouldnt mean her stats should be at that level. That's again only the case with vitalizing the body with the chakra. But in addition to this, its also proven that using exsessive amounts of Chakra lowers all other stats regardless.

That being Said, Kaguya was not only holding back but trying to preserve chakra. So now the case likely becomes she fought using her base stats, without amping, prior to reforming herself and absorbing Chakra through IT. So how can you really claim inconsistent feats tbqh? After reforming herself she showcased Superior Stats via speed as now that she could easily outspeed Naruto and Sasuke rushing towards her from several feet away with the outliers being Sakura and Kakashi. Otherwise Kaguya is actually pretty consistent.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Few characters are rated with certain techniques when said techniques can't be normally replicated under normal conditions, whether it's because characters are killed by the strain such as Pain or amped such as Kaguya.

Nah. Chakra control can only go so far. Merely focusing on feats instead of hypothetical ratings, result in more accurate portrayals of individual stats such as Kaguya and Naruto managing to exchange blows with chakra arms despite a perceived massive difference between the two.

She definitely wasn't holding back. It was emphasized that none of them would survive contact with the ETSB.


PIS and "inconsistencies" are interchangeable and if Kaguya was that strong she wouldn't have had such an overwhelming desire to escape, and would have likely trounced them all effortlessly. It's not just about the sealing ignoring attack potency, she was literally discarding manouvres in her panic, when brute force alone should have sufficed.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Too much, assumptions.

 

[Akiretsu]

Few characters are rated with certain techniques when said techniques can't be normally replicated under normal conditions, whether it's because characters are killed by the strain such as Pain or amped such as Kaguya.

Nah. Chakra control can only go so far. Merely focusing on feats instead of hypothetical ratings, result in more accurate portrayals of individual stats such as Kaguya and Naruto managing to exchange blows with chakra arms despite a perceived massive difference between the two.

She definitely wasn't holding back. It was emphasized that none of them would survive contact with the ETSB.


PIS and "inconsistencies" are interchangeable and if Kaguya was that strong she wouldn't have had such an overwhelming desire to escape, and would have likely trounced them all effortlessly. It's not just about the sealing ignoring attack potency, she was literally discarding manouvres in her panic, when brute force alone should have sufficed.

Kaguya was holding back prior to reforming herself. At least before considering Naruto a threat needed to be killed. This is highlighted by the fact she wanted to absorb their chakra so killing them wasnt an option. She was against it as soon as Zetsu brought it up. And nothing she did was inconsistent.
-She nosold Susanoo crashing into her at high speeds. -She casually overpowered Naruto in the Chakra fist exchange while holding back with a smirk on her face. -She Nosold practically all on Naruto's attacks. -She easily dispatched his clones when not even Limbos could.

Etc. The only reason Naruto and Sasuke started to do so well and injure her was because as stated she uses a lot of chakra shifting the dimensions. So when Naruto blitzed and cut off her Arm and injured her with Biju Rasenshurikens, she had already wasted significant amount of chakra from switching to:

-Lava Dimension -Ice Dimension -Gravity Dimension -Core Dimension.

Which obviously brought her closer to Naruto's level before she reformed herself and used ETSB and wasted to be vastly superior as opposed to before. And thats only gonna be the case if her base stats were far superior than before or she was vitalizing her body via IT Chakra.

Nothing Suggests that a Naruto Character cant route the chakra they'd use for X jutsu to amp their stats to the same level via chakra control. The only reason why some may not is due to In Character Actions but the the ability to do so has bren showcased. Shunshin is an exanple of vitalizing. Kabuto enhanced his durability in Part 1. Sasuke was implied to have done this in the Movie which is why he matched Naruto's Stats.

Chakra control doesnt have a limit on how you can use your chakra that you have available. If Madara had no other way to tank a Biju Bomb from BM Naruto, what's stopping him from increasing his bodily durability like Kabuto did to tank it like how pain did 6 tails BD?

What would stop Base Naruto from breaking Sakura's hands in knuckles if he decided to amp it with the chakra he'd normally use for a FRS? And this stuff has been a proven fact in manga since part 1.

The only Ninjutsu that the scailing wouldn't apply to is stuff that utilize outside forces like Kirin for example. The mechanic does exist and has been shown to do what im saying. People in Naruto wouldn't just be a certain level with a technique only unless its dependable on factors their own chakra can't create.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

If she was already more powerful than them, why would she need more chakra, and then kill two characters below her tier.

 

[Akiretsu]

If she was already more powerful than them, why would she need more chakra, and then kill two characters below her tier.

That's the thing, Kguya wasn't going all out in the beginning. She wanted to absorb their chakra instead of killing them thus held back. In doing so, she wasted large portions of her chakra bring her closer to Nruto and Sasuke's Level when she decided to kill them. She absorbed More chakra to gain the stats advantage again and was going to kill them with ETSB. Kakashi went in first and gave her trouble with his Hax. She still showcased that she was superior in stats as stated when she easily out paced Naruto and Sasule from Several inches away whilst they were rushing to seal her.

It's not that Kaguya couldn't kill them, and she would've killed them without PIS happenings dealing with Obito and Kakashi.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

^ As I see it at full power she was stronger than them when she appeared. They only match her because she has bad stamina, her chakra is waisted when she switches dimensions, lowering herself to their level of power. When she absorb all the chakra from the IT she became more powerful. But given that it was with the chakra from all the people under IT it doesn't applied to her stats but to the ETSB,and even then we have no idea how strong she really became. Was it x2, x 1.5, x 10, x 100? Is inconclusive powerscaling, and an assumption.

 

[Akiretsu]

1.)^ As I see it at full power she was stronger than them when she appeared. They only match her because she has bad stamina, her chakra is waisted when she switches dimensions, lowering herself to their level of power.

I wouldn't necessarily include bad stamina but yeah, this is correct.

2.)When she absorb all the chakra from the IT she became more powerful. But given that it was with the chakra from all the people under IT it doesn't applied to her stats but to the ETSB.
This is true but We still know Kaguya has the ability and has used it to create her 5 dimensions. So this scaling still applies. Reason being the 9 Biju are originally Kaguya's complete Chakra. She should be stronger than her prime tbqh. But, the power scailing is off in verse. Hagoromo implied Kaguya was stronger than himself but giving half his power to Naruto and Sasuke allowed them to match Madara who had all Biju minus 50% Kurama and all the Biju together should've equaled Prime Kaguya. So that makes no sense unless Hags kept majority of the Biju Chakra still and split part of Kaguya's Pirme Chakra into the Biju. Either way the scailing still works, but for this feat it's either:

1.)Kaguya used IT Chakra to form it instead of hers to keep the stats advantage

or

2.) This scailing only applies to Prime Kaguya due to the entire situation being up in the air and assuption based making it a feat similar to Kirin and I already addressed that.

3.)And even then we have no idea how strong she really became. Was it x2, x 1.5, x 10, x 100? Is inconclusive powerscaling, and an assumption.
How strong she was doesn't matter honestly in regards to the scaling. Kishi told us she was vastly stronger, that's all we need to know. The scailing is fine. The problem for the ETSB feat alone was simply whether or not it's equivalent to Sasuke using Kirin or if Kaguya had the chakra during this fight to use it herself. But either way this would still scale to Prime Kaguya as in she could make her other stats and Ninjutsu just as strong as this. But again, this just isn't about Kaguya but NV in general.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

She absorbed all of the bijuu's before fighting Naruto and Sasuke. Her stats are the same. (From Madara)

Your theory doesn't make sense at all.

It does because it will then be Unknown, and not planet lvl.

Also, Bijuu Susano'o wouldn't scale either since he had the 8 1/2 tails. Since Hagoromo said that Naruto had the other half of Kurama inside of him, and explain how Naruto could lived without him.

 

[Akiretsu]

1.)She absorbed all of the bijuu's before fighting Naruto and Sasuke. Her stats are the same. (From Madara)

2.)Your theory doesn't make sense at all.

2.5)It does because it will then be Unknown, and not planet lvl.

3.)Also, Bijuu Susano'o wouldn't scale either since he had the 8 1/2 tails. Since Hagoromo said that Naruto had the other half of Kurama inside of him, and explain how Naruto could lived without him.

1.)Her stats when she first appeared are superior to Naruto and Sasuke's. She lowered herself to near their level by waisting chakra switching dimensions and all that good stuff. Her stats aren't the same when she decided to actually Kill them.

2.)It actually does. For some reason people think Prime Kaguya is stronger than Current Kaguya. Manga states Hagormo Took her chakra and them split her chakra into 9 pieces before his death. Those 9 pieces are the Biju. Thus, If those who have all 9 biju should have Prime Kaguya's Chakra. If Prime Kaguya is stronger than Hags, how does Hagoromo have the Chakra to split between Naruto and Sasuke and make them more than A match for Madara who had All the Biju (Minus Minato's Kyuubi) and thus should have been roughly equal to Prime Kaguya who again, created her 5 dimensions with ETSB. In Order for this to be the case that means Ghost Hags still has A lot of Kaguya's Chakra and the Biju don't account for 100% of Prime Kaguya's Chakra.

The reason I said this method still might scale is because If you agree 100% with the manga that the Biju are 100% Kaguya's Prime Chakra, being that she is stronger, that would make her able to still use ETSB out of her own chakra whether or not she used IT Chakra or not Or if you don't agree with that, her prime still scales.

2.5.) Hokagemngavox, you seem to be under the impression that Kaguya would altimatically be Planet level under this scaling. No. She's stated to be vastly superior to Naruto and Sasuke stats. Yes, that puts her at an unknown level of power but, her max would be scaled from her highest Jutsu that can be produced with her inner chakra.

So, that means that in the case of Kaguya, she would be at least Superior to Characters who are At Least Moon level+ and would cap at Planet level. Via Chakra control, she can fall anywhere she wanted in between, which is why I said It doesn't matter here.

3.)What?....That makes no sense. What is Biju-Susanoo not exactly scaling to also? Naruto had Minato's Kurama inside him so he didn't need the other Kurama to survive. Sasuke's regular Susanoo doesn't scale to BS because Again, and this has even been stated in the Thread I made, It's similar to Kirin. Using an outside factor his inner chakra can't replicate.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Too much assumption and no feats to support argument, I'm afraid

 

[Akiretsu]

Too much assumption and no feats to support argument, I'm afraid

Do me a favor and point out what's assumd please.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

This is too much speculation. Maybe if you had some scans to support it, we can discuss it.

 

[Ragazz]

im gonna say one thing. kaguya has no jutsu, sage6/juubi jinchuriki powers are not jutsu.

jutsu/ninjutsu was invented by indra. ofc hagoromo learned some things later. madara and obito use some jutsu in their jinchuriki forms, well bcs they can apply it, they are master ninja to begin with. naruto does the same.