Sakura CRT

[Testarossa002]

Let me preface by imploring everyone who will partake in this CRT to read the text completely and not jump into any preconceived conclusion

---

This is divided into two phases
1. Sakura at her peak does NOT cap at KCM Naruto, EMS Sasuke or Byakugo Tsunade
2. Sakura does NOT scale to Kaguya but.....

Spoiler: Phase 1

Sakura at her peak does NOT cap at KCM Naruto, EMS Sasuke or Byakugo Tsunade

Naruto and Sasuke
Sakura capping at KCM Naruto and EMS Sasuke was something I've seen come up on the general discussion thread and a few CRTs.

That notion is just wrong.
While not reflected in the profiles, I still wish to address it as the arguments against may include this.
The databook image used to justify her scaling to the guys was just her SoHS.

That in no way applies to peak Sakura (Byakugo Enhanced).

Inferring that would mean that the peak forms of Naruto (BM) and Sasuke (CBS) at that point all scale to BE Sakura. Which wasn't the point of the Databook entry.

Tsunade
Same thing with Tsunade.
The databook entry compares her power to that of Tsunade.
The Image shown was SoHS Sakura.
Not BE Sakura.

As it stands, BE Sakura doesn't cap at BE Tsunade and SoHS Sakura doesn't cap at KCM Naruto or EMS Sasuke.
Instead, SHS Sakura will now scale to BE Tsunade at least.
Which will lead to KCM Naruto and EMS Sasuke scaling to her.
Looking at the values, it'll be an upgrade for Naruto and Sasuke.
BE Sakura is now unquantifiably stronger than that. For now.

Spoiler: Phase 2

Sakura does NOT scale to Kaguya but.....
I'm going to preface this by saying loud and clear that I'M NOT SCALING SAKURA TO KAGUYA'S DURABILITY. THE VALUES MIGHT BE CLOSE BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT SHE SCALES TO KAGUYA.
Just in case people get the wrong opinion.
We all know the infamous feat of Sakura breaking Kaguya's horn.
I'll first have to find the durability of the horn.

Let's go back a few chapters to Guy vs Madara.
Guy attacks Madara with the first step of Sekizo and breaks off Madara's horn.

That wasn't the case when he started landing the barrages and Madara was prepared for him
In fact, he hit Madara in the face like twice and the horn was intact.

Kaguya, at the very least, should have her horns be as durable as Madara's.
Sakura breaks her horns.
Meaning Sakura scales at least relative, if not superior to Sekizo.


"But you said earlier that SoHS Sakura is on par with Tsunade. Doesn't that result in a circular scaling? Besides, why was Sakura not at the forefront of the Juubito fight if she's orders of magnitude stronger than the main fighters then?"

All valid concerns.

My saving grace will be to show that Sakura somehow got stronger between the Juubi fight and the Juubidara fight.

There's this thing called resolve (or determination). Inverse, there are cases where characters perform feats greater than what they've been shown to do before as a result of having a resolve to do something.
I'm sure that if I skim through the 700 chapters of the story, I can find a few dozen instances where this is the case but I'm only going to use one instance from this same arc to show what I mean.
When Team 7 and Obito were transported to the gravity dimension, all of them were incapacitated to an extent. Even Kaguya was not an exception to the weight.
Yet, Kakashi and Obito were not just able to move alone. They could jump and run (albeit with difficulty) in that same dimension where the six paths characters were immobilized.
There wasn't any direct explanation for this feat but Kakashi then tells Obito that they've resolved to protect Naruto and Sasuke.
Since there's no shown powerups, one can only infer that it was their strong resolve to protect nard and sauce that allowed them to perform such feats.
How does this relate to Sakura?
Pages 144 to 145 in Naruto Databook 4 is all about Sakura's resolve and determination not to fall behind her teammates.
The heading quite literally says:
"One next to the other to the extreme of determination— the backs of trustworthy friends"

That's all from me regarding this section.

Supporting Feats/Statements
1. She has at least 1/2 of SPSM Naruto in chakra reserves.
A lot of you probably know this meta but I'll summarize it.
Obito was certain that Naruto's clone (he only had one clone out at the time) would not have enough chakra to be able to sustain dimension hopping with Kamui.
Yet Sakura was able to sustain opening portals, thrice.

2. Madara didn't think he needed limbo to defend against Sekizo. (Yes, he was trying to defend himself. Just didn't use limbo which is nigh invulnerable to physical hits)
Yet, when Sakura came charging at him, he opted to intercept her attack with limbo.

These 2 supports on their own may not amount to much but when combined with the Kaguya feat gives us an idea on how strong the author intended Sakura to be at EoS.
@MinatoSparkle summarizes my points this way (He probably doesn't remember saying this)

I don't see any problem with putting her at that level for the Sakura thing.
She has multiple statements and narratives backing her up to put her at KCM tier just from getting her Byakugou Mark. The 4th Databook has an entire page dedicated to telling us she isn't weak and is relative to the two, and The Last databook reiterates the same.
You may think that's inconsistent, but the feats she does solidify it:
She believes she can supply Obito with more chakra than what he thought a clone of Naruto could give him, and she goes on to do just that.
And that's a big deal, seeing as that specific clone was the single one Naruto made before fighting Kaguya, so it should logically have half of Naruto's entire chakra reserves.
Sakura having that much chakra is significant because her whole fighting style utilizes her maximum amount of chakra in each punch.
So if she can produce as much chakra as Naruto while having some to spare (seeing as the mark did not disappear), she should logically be able to attack with the same strength. And the next feat shows just that.
After that, she punches Kaguya hard enough to leave a bruise and break off one of her horns.
While non-canon, Sakura was obviously trading blows with Kaguya like Naruto and Sasuke were to prove her relevancy even in the storm games.
She can react briefly to Bunny Kaguya's arms that Naruto explicitly calls fast and warns Sasuke about.
In The Last, Sakura can refill Naruto's chakra reserves after pumping chakra into him for 3 days straight.
I believe Sakura should very much scale to Naruto and Sasuke, at least in their teenage forms. She has way too much proof to refute it simply because she doesn't jump into every conflict (She's primarily a doctor, and if both her and Sasuke die, Sarada would be an orphan, lol)

Spoiler: Conclusion

Phase 1
SoHS Sakura, KCM 1.5 and EMS Sasuke all scale to Tsunade [15ish Gigatons]
Phase 2
Sakura gets an extra key and now scales to Sekizo [44ish Exatons]

Votes

	Agree	Disagree	Neutral
Phase 1
Phase 2

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Very well put together CRT and straight to the point, will give my thoughts a bit later

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Yeah, like I told you in the dms, this might be the best CRT I've ever seen on this topic. Despite my own reservations about it, I can't deny, you did a great job.

Anyway, I might give my detailed thoughts later when I have more time.

 

[AkumaNoHissatsu]

mmmm seems fine to me

anyway the way you organize this thread is sooo fine, fr

 

[Tdjwo]

Firstly, if you are going to be listing versions of characters, please let us know the full meaning beforehand. Like what does "SOHS" Sakura mean? Or "CBS Sasuke?"

Inferring that would mean that the peak forms of Naruto (BM) and Sasuke (CBS) at that point all scale to BE Sakura. Which wasn't the point of the Databook entry.

How did you come to this conclusion? Where is the correlation between SoHS Sakura scaling to KCM/ CBS Sasuke and BM Naruto/EMS Sasuke(Juugo amped)?

Spoiler: Phase 2

Sakura does NOT scale to Kaguya but.....
I'm going to preface this by saying loud and clear that I'M NOT SCALING SAKURA TO KAGUYA'S DURABILITY. THE VALUES MIGHT BE CLOSE BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT SHE SCALES TO KAGUYA.
Just in case people get the wrong opinion.
We all know the infamous feat of Sakura breaking Kaguya's horn.
I'll first have to find the durability of the horn.

Let's go back a few chapters to Guy vs Madara.
Guy attacks Madara with the first step of Sekizo and breaks off Madara's horn.

That wasn't the case when he started landing the barrages and Madara was prepared for him
In fact, he hit Madara in the face like twice and the horn was intact.

Kaguya, at the very least, should have her horns be as durable as Madara's.
Sakura breaks her horns.
Meaning Sakura scales at least relative, if not superior to Sekizo.

Ok, so there are two issues with this.

1. Firstly, if you take a close look at Madara's horns, you will realize that the horn that broke looks like a "Quickhorn" compared to the other horn. In other words, the horn that broke looks deformed compared to Madara's other horn. Hence, the deformed horn being the weaker one, broke. This is most likely Kishimoto emphasizing the fact that despite Madara being very close to resembling an actual Otsutsuki, he still lacks some "perfect" qualities compared to them. All other Otsutsukis have perfectly shaped and identical-looking horns. Only Madara is different.
Also, in Boruto, Boruto is able to break Momoshiki's horn with his hand when he regains his consciousness. But it should be obvious to us that Boruto wouldn't have been able to break Momoshiki's actual horn if he wasn't in a human vessel.

2. You specifically pointed out the fact that once Madara became prepared for Sekizo, Guy was unable to break the other horn. This basically implies Guy caught Madara off-guard initially (which was actually the case). Funnily enough, Sakura also caught kaguya offguard when she hit her head. She had less than a split second to realize Sakura was above her head.

So in short, not only can't we base the durability of Kaguya's horn off Madara's deformed horn, we also can't scale offguard feats under any circumstance. I disagree with scaling Kaguya's horn to Madara's.

"But you said earlier that SoHS Sakura is on par with Tsunade. Doesn't that result in a circular scaling? Besides, why was Sakura not at the forefront of the Juubito fight if she's orders of magnitude stronger than the main fighters then?"

All valid concerns.

My saving grace will be to show that Sakura somehow got stronger between the Juubi fight and the Juubidara fight.

There's this thing called resolve (or determination). Inverse, there are cases where characters perform feats greater than what they've been shown to do before as a result of having a resolve to do something.
I'm sure that if I skim through the 700 chapters of the story, I can find a few dozen instances where this is the case but I'm only going to use one instance from this same arc to show what I mean.
When Team 7 and Obito were transported to the gravity dimension, all of them were incapacitated to an extent. Even Kaguya was not an exception to the weight.
Yet, Kakashi and Obito were not just able to move alone. They could jump and run (albeit with difficulty) in that same dimension where the six paths characters were immobilized.
There wasn't any direct explanation for this feat but Kakashi then tells Obito that they've resolved to protect Naruto and Sasuke.
Since there's no shown powerups, one can only infer that it was their strong resolve to protect nard and sauce that allowed them to perform such feats.

This honestly sounds like a massive reach. It's clear as day that whatever happened in that gravity dimension was just a plot-infested stupidity. Resolve amps are supposed to hold a little bit of sensibility in it. Heck, I think this is the only time ever that characters magnitudes of times weaker than another character suddenly perform feats over 10x better than the stronger characters all because of "ReSoLvE aMp". Mind you, that version of Obito was extremely exhausted asf and Kakashi was well, not useful at all to be able to even move an inch, yet they were not only physically stronger than frikin Kaguya, but were also faster than her All Killing Ash Bone which is supposed to be one of her fastest attacks. This shows that whatever happened wasn't Resolve amped. Instead, it's the epitome of Plot Induced Stupidity.

How does this relate to Sakura?
Pages 144 to 145 in Naruto Databook 4 is all about Sakura's resolve and determination not to fall behind her teammates.
The heading quite literally says:
"One next to the other to the extreme of determination— the backs of trustworthy friends"

That's all from me regarding this section.

This resolve/determination stuff regarding Sakura is so overused. She has made this remarks several times just for her to slack behind them. Heck, the entire Kaguya fight, Sakura didn't contibute to any combat power at all until the last minute offguard sucker-punch to Kaguya's head. The databook simply tells us Sakura's determination to not fall behind. But we know clearly that she doesn't ever catch up, combat-wise at least. Or should we randomly start dashing out equal tiering to anyone who has an insert "determination" statement to anyone even if they don't quite ever accomplish that? Like should we put Konohamaru on the same level as Naruto all because he has always been determined to be as powerful as Naruto is?

Supporting Feats/Statements
1. She has at least 1/2 of SPSM Naruto in chakra reserves.
A lot of you probably know this meta but I'll summarize it.
Obito was certain that Naruto's clone (he only had one clone out at the time) would not have enough chakra to be able to sustain dimension hopping with Kamui.
Yet Sakura was able to sustain opening portals, thrice.

This particular topic has always been interesting to me. I had this discussion with someone on Quora. I don't think people realize that Obito was just overall wrong in both Naruto and Sakura's chakra capacity? He simply made a quick conclusion based on his assumptions. Not to mention the fact he never claimed Sakura's chakra solely was enough for him. Rather, the combination of Sakura and clone Naruto's chakra was enough to give him the bare minimum. This could simply mean that Sakura's chakra reserves was just the little bit needed to help clone Naruto's larger reserves to aid Obito's kamui. Regardless, we found out that Obito's statement was completely innacurate as Sakura did not only give him more than the "bare minimum" he claimed she would for one dimension, but also gave him enough chakra to access multiple of Kaguya's dimensions. So if we were to use logic, the fact that Obito was wrong in Sakura's chakra capacity also means he was most likely wrong in clone Naruto's chakra capacity.

2. Madara didn't think he needed limbo to defend against Sekizo. (Yes, he was trying to defend himself. Just didn't use limbo which is nigh invulnerable to physical hits)
Yet, when Sakura came charging at him, he opted to intercept her attack with limbo.

This could also mean Madara was trying to flex against the entire team 7 as opposed to fighting against Guy where he was trying to "enjoy" the fight. Before Madara became the ten tails jinchuriki, he used his limbo to knock out all the tailed beasts. And also used his limbo to kill EMS sasuke. All these could have been accomplished without using his limbo yet he chose to use them. This is not a good supporting evidence for Sakura.

All in all, I disagree with this proposal. Sakura shouldn't be scaled using anything that happened between Madara vs Guy. and the supporting arguments aren't accurate enough.

 

[Testarossa002]

Firstly, if you are going to be listing versions of characters, please let us know the full meaning beforehand. Like what does "SOHS" Sakura mean? Or "CBS Sasuke?"

Strength of a Hundred Seal
Complete body Susanoo

How did you come to this conclusion? Where is the correlation between SoHS Sakura scaling to KCM/ CBS Sasuke and BM Naruto/EMS Sasuke(Juugo amped)?

I never said SoHS scales to Naruto and Sasuke's peak forms
I said she only she scales to the forms of Naruto and Sasuke shown in the databook but that doesn't mean her peak (Byakugo Enhanced) caps at that

1. Firstly, if you take a close look at Madara's horns, you will realize that the horn that broke looks like a "Quickhorn" compared to the other horn. In other words, the horn that broke looks deformed compared to Madara's other horn. Hence, the deformed horn being the weaker one, broke. This is most likely Kishimoto emphasizing the fact that despite Madara being very close to resembling an actual Otsutsuki, he still lacks some "perfect" qualities compared to them. All other Otsutsukis have perfectly shaped and identical-looking horns. Only Madara is different.
Also, in Boruto, Boruto is able to break Momoshiki's horn with his hand when he regains his consciousness. But it should be obvious to us that Boruto wouldn't have been able to break Momoshiki's actual horn if he wasn't in a human vessel.

I'm not really sure about your point here

2. You specifically pointed out the fact that once Madara became prepared for Sekizo, Guy was unable to break the other horn. This basically implies Guy caught Madara off-guard initially (which was actually the case). Funnily enough, Sakura also caught kaguya offguard when she hit her head. She had less than a split second to realize Sakura was above her head.

The difference between both cases is that Sakura wasn't Kaguya's only threat at that point. There were 3 other characters around her who are capable of harming her. There's no reason for her to just reduce her durability in that exchange. Unlike Madara with Guy

This resolve/determination stuff regarding Sakura is so overused. She has made this remarks several times just for her to slack behind them. Heck, the entire Kaguya fight, Sakura didn't contibute to any combat power at all until the last minute offguard sucker-punch to Kaguya's head. The databook simply tells us Sakura's determination to not fall behind. But we know clearly that she doesn't ever catch up, combat-wise at least.

She doesn't need to be equal to them. She just need to be strong enough to not hold them back. Of course she couldn't contribute to the fight. All the main players were flying around. Which she can't do even if she's strong enough. When she eventually gets close to Kaguya, she dealt damage to her.

Or should we randomly start dashing out equal tiering to anyone who has an insert "determination" statement to anyone even if they don't quite ever accomplish that? Like should we put Konohamaru on the same level as Naruto all because he has always been determined to be as powerful as Naruto is?irst off, the

No
Good thing "determination" is not all I'm using here

This particular topic has always been interesting to me. I had this discussion with someone on Quora. I don't think people realize that Obito was just overall wrong in both Naruto and Sakura's chakra capacity? He simply made a quick conclusion based on his assumptions. Not to mention the fact he never claimed Sakura's chakra solely was enough for him. Rather, the combination of Sakura and clone Naruto's chakra was enough to give him the bare minimum. This could simply mean that Sakura's chakra reserves was just the little bit needed to help clone Naruto's larger reserves to aid Obito's kamui. Regardless, we found out that Obito's statement was completely innacurate as Sakura did not only give him more than the "bare minimum" he claimed she would for one dimension, but also gave him enough chakra to access multiple of Kaguya's dimensions. So if we were to use logic, the fact that Obito was wrong in Sakura's chakra capacity also means he was most likely wrong in clone Naruto's chakra capacity.

What assumptions exactly?
Given the fact that they were in dire straits and have a limited timeframe for execution, it makes no sense for him not to be completely sure on what they were attempting.
To your main point
He doesn't actually see the seal unleashed version of Sakura. He only knows that it'll be more than what she's currently exuding. Unlike Naruto where he could actually see what he's got.
Probably why he didn't ask Sakura from the onset.
And it's not as if it's an isolated event. Given that Sakura can refill Naruto's chakra to a point on the moon

Before Madara became the ten tails jinchuriki, he used his limbo to knock out all the tailed beasts.

This was effective because they didn't know what hit them. Literally
And what other stuffs in his arsenal would be just as effective as that?

And also used his limbo to kill EMS sasuke.

He used limbo to CATCH EMS Sasuke.
And what other stuffs in his arsenal would be just as effective as that?

This could also mean Madara was trying to flex against the entire team 7 as opposed to fighting against Guy where he was trying to "enjoy" the fight

As much as he was trying to enjoy the fight, he was also keen on defending himself from attacks as shown.
And him flexing is a non point given that he jetted out of there in like the next panel
Besides, why would he be flexing on the only people who were capable of killing him in the first place.
That's Un-Madaralike

All in all, I disagree with this proposal. Sakura shouldn't be scaled using anything that happened between Madara vs Guy. and the supporting arguments aren't accurate enough.

Noted
What about the first phase?

 

[Golden_Void]

...

Agree with him

 

[DavidTPPM]

I don't really get the Sekizo argument here. Are you saying
Sakuras AP > Kaguyas horn > on guard Madaras horn > Sekizo > off guard Madaras horn
?

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

I agree

Hinata slayer fr fr

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Why would this mental amp/resolve amp be permanent? Given the nature of resolve amps in Naruto, they are these heat of the moment bursts of strength and speed that normally allow the user to exceed their limits briefly for like that one final attack. I don’t really think Sakura would need an additional key for this at all. Most she should get is “5-C when amplified by resolve (Capable of shattering Kaguya’s horn, which would be more durable than Madara’s horn, that was capable of withstanding Sekizo from Eighth Gate Guy)” or something like that.

Also having high chakra reserves doesn’t really enable you to scale above other people or scale to other people based on what we accept rn. Basically, I’m fine like adding to her war arc key a 5-C amp, but I disagree with her getting a new key and permanently keeping that amp. This presupposing that we accept mental amps, which we definitely accept to an extent, Naruto gets the “Obito coolest guy” mental amp against Kaguya etc.

However, I can understand the hesitation given that like the gulf between Sakura and 5-C is far larger than the example with like Six Paths Naruto going from like God tier level to above God tier level. In which case maybe a possibly 5-C when amplified by emotions/resolve would be better. Regardless, main point I wanted to make was that I disagree with the mental amp being permanent, I don’t believe we have any preponderance to assert she got permanently stronger, and there isn’t any evidence mechanically to explain a permanent increase of such.

 

[KaydeeX]

Arcsevenkuroi FRA

 

[That_moron2]

Also having high chakra reserves doesn’t really enable you to scale above other people or scale to other people based on what we accept rn. Basically, I’m fine like adding to her war arc key a 5-C amp, but I disagree with her getting a new key and permanently keeping that amp. This presupposing that we accept mental amps, which we definitely accept to an extent, Naruto gets the “Obito coolest guy” mental amp against Kaguya etc.

Doesn't Sakura use her maximum chakra to give her the superhuman strength?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

That has nothing to do with what I just said, but yeah that scan is a real scan. My post is talking about mental amps in Naruto tho.

 

[That_moron2]

That has nothing to do with what I just said, but yeah that scan is a real scan. My post is talking about mental amps in Naruto tho.

Also having high chakra reserves doesn’t really enable you to scale above other people or scale to other people based on what we accept rn.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Still not relevant to my claim… it’s rather obvious by my post that 1) I’m not claiming that Sakura being able to use lots of chakra makes her scale and 2) that I just disagree with that notion.

 

[Testarossa002]

Most she should get is “5-C when amplified by resolve (Capable of shattering Kaguya’s horn, which would be more durable than Madara’s horn, that was capable of withstanding Sekizo from Eighth Gate Guy)” or something like that.

That's fine with me
Just noticed the same treatment was given to Naruto cutting off Kaguya's arm.
I'll edit the conclusion to reflect this.
What's your opinion on the phase 1 scaling?

 

[That_moron2]

1) I’m not claiming that Sakura being able to use lots of chakra makes her scale

Yeah but I am.

at I just disagree with that notion.

That's fair.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

That's fine with me
Just noticed the same treatment was given to Naruto cutting off Kaguya's arm.
I'll edit the conclusion to reflect this.
What's your opinion on the phase 1 scaling?

Ngl idrc about phase 1 scaling

 

[That_moron2]

I'm also fine with 5-C with resolve or something along those lines.

 

[Damage3245]

I share similar sentiments to Arc7Kuroi on this.

I don't think that Sakura warrants a straight 5-C upgrade to her normal capabilities.

 

[Godernet]

I share similar sentiments to Arc7Kuroi on this.

 

[LordTracer]

At a cursory glance, I’d agree with Arc here. Sakura getting ‘5-C via Empowerment“ or something along those lines seems alright to me.

Hinata slayer fr fr

Always has been.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I wanna preface that I’m only advocating for a possibly with this 5-C mental amp, given similar situation occurred against Madara with her “I’m not getting left behind” moment and that provided no substantial amp whatsoever, she just got bodied by Madara. Credits to Slayer for reminding me about that. I’m not saying this should completely defeat her mental amp argument, as perhaps she could’ve been more resolved in the face of like realm wide destruction, but I do think it calls into question the reliability of that feat being an objective amp.

 

[Tdjwo]

I'm going to address Testarossa's reply later

 

[LordTracer]

I wanna preface that I’m only advocating for a possibly with this 5-C mental amp, given similar situation occurred against Madara with her “I’m not getting left behind” moment and that provided no substantial amp whatsoever, she just got bodied by Madara. Credits to Slayer for reminding me about that. I’m not saying this should completely defeat her mental amp argument, as perhaps she could’ve been more resolved in the face of like realm wide destruction, but I do think it calls into question the reliability of that feat being an objective amp.

I would’ve gone for ‘up to 5-C’ myself, but if ‘possibly 5-C‘ is more agreed upon, that’s fine.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

So, in the spirit of this comment I made recently, I'm gonna just say that if I'm outvoted on this by other staff, I can live with a Possibly rating or some other compromise. I don't really plan to argue on this thread. I have other things that demand my time, and I can't really put them off. I'm gonna drop my thoughts and dip. Just wanted to make that clear.

Sakura at her peak does NOT cap at KCM Naruto, EMS Sasuke or Byakugo Tsunade

Naruto and Sasuke
Sakura capping at KCM Naruto and EMS Sasuke was something I've seen come up on the general discussion thread and a few CRTs.

That notion is just wrong.
While not reflected in the profiles, I still wish to address it as the arguments against may include this.
The databook image used to justify her scaling to the guys was just her SoHS.

That in no way applies to peak Sakura (Byakugo Enhanced).

Inferring that would mean that the peak forms of Naruto (BM) and Sasuke (CBS) at that point all scale to BE Sakura. Which wasn't the point of the Databook entry.

The statements clearly indicate that narratively, she was relative to those versions of Naruto and Sasuke. It wasn't posited as "She just caught up to them, but can actually one-shot them with Byakugo".
I'll talk about this more in my coming point. Also, if you're trying to use this to argue that "since her Byakugo wasn't capped at KCM/EMS Sasuke level, the Kaguya stuff isn't an outlier", I'm not sure that would work either. Since the Kaguya feat wasn't performed while she was in Byakugo, anyway, so I'm not sure that really works.

Tsunade
Same thing with Tsunade.
The databook entry compares her power to that of Tsunade.
The Image shown was SoHS Sakura.
Not BE Sakura.

As it stands, BE Sakura doesn't cap at BE Tsunade and SoHS Sakura doesn't cap at KCM Naruto or EMS Sasuke.
Instead, SHS Sakura will now scale to BE Tsunade at least.
Which will lead to KCM Naruto and EMS Sasuke scaling to her.
Looking at the values, it'll be an upgrade for Naruto and Sasuke.
BE Sakura is now unquantifiably stronger than that. For now.

Well, Sakura's already scaling above Tsunade, so that's fine. I disagree with her scaling above Byakugo Tsunade with just her SoHS, though.

Again, it harkens back to her Naruto and Sauske scaling. It's absolutely NOT consistent for Naruto and Sasuke to scale to this value normally. The 15 Gigaton scaling comes from the Susano'o and the Rasenshuriken. These guys don't scale there physically, it's not consistent by any measure. This would scale Sasuke physically to the Susano'o, which makes no sense. Like, I don't feel like going into why these characters are more consistently on the "4.3 Gigaton" Spectrum physically, rather than the "15 Gigaton" one.
So we went with 100H Sakura being relative to them physically, and relative to their strongest moves like the FRS or Susano'o with Byakugo, which consistent with Tsunade as well. I still prefer this scaling, personally.

Sakura does NOT scale to Kaguya but.....
I'm going to preface this by saying loud and clear that I'M NOT SCALING SAKURA TO KAGUYA'S DURABILITY. THE VALUES MIGHT BE CLOSE BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT SHE SCALES TO KAGUYA.
Just in case people get the wrong opinion.
We all know the infamous feat of Sakura breaking Kaguya's horn.
I'll first have to find the durability of the horn.

Let's go back a few chapters to Guy vs Madara.
Guy attacks Madara with the first step of Sekizo and breaks off Madara's horn.

That wasn't the case when he started landing the barrages and Madara was prepared for him
In fact, he hit Madara in the face like twice and the horn was intact.

Kaguya, at the very least, should have her horns be as durable as Madara's.
Sakura breaks her horns.
Meaning Sakura scales at least relative, if not superior to Sekizo.


"But you said earlier that SoHS Sakura is on par with Tsunade. Doesn't that result in a circular scaling? Besides, why was Sakura not at the forefront of the Juubito fight if she's orders of magnitude stronger than the main fighters then?"

All valid concerns.

My saving grace will be to show that Sakura somehow got stronger between the Juubi fight and the Juubidara fight.

There's this thing called resolve (or determination). Inverse, there are cases where characters perform feats greater than what they've been shown to do before as a result of having a resolve to do something.
I'm sure that if I skim through the 700 chapters of the story, I can find a few dozen instances where this is the case but I'm only going to use one instance from this same arc to show what I mean.
When Team 7 and Obito were transported to the gravity dimension, all of them were incapacitated to an extent. Even Kaguya was not an exception to the weight.
Yet, Kakashi and Obito were not just able to move alone. They could jump and run (albeit with difficulty) in that same dimension where the six paths characters were immobilized.
There wasn't any direct explanation for this feat but Kakashi then tells Obito that they've resolved to protect Naruto and Sasuke.
Since there's no shown powerups, one can only infer that it was their strong resolve to protect nard and sauce that allowed them to perform such feats.
How does this relate to Sakura?
Pages 144 to 145 in Naruto Databook 4 is all about Sakura's resolve and determination not to fall behind her teammates.
The heading quite literally says:
"One next to the other to the extreme of determination— the backs of trustworthy friends"

That's all from me regarding this section.

Supporting Feats/Statements
1. She has at least 1/2 of SPSM Naruto in chakra reserves.
A lot of you probably know this meta but I'll summarize it.
Obito was certain that Naruto's clone (he only had one clone out at the time) would not have enough chakra to be able to sustain dimension hopping with Kamui.
Yet Sakura was able to sustain opening portals, thrice.

2. Madara didn't think he needed limbo to defend against Sekizo. (Yes, he was trying to defend himself. Just didn't use limbo which is nigh invulnerable to physical hits)
Yet, when Sakura came charging at him, he opted to intercept her attack with limbo.

These 2 supports on their own may not amount to much but when combined with the Kaguya feat gives us an idea on how strong the author intended Sakura to be at EoS.
@MinatoSparkle summarizes my points this way (He probably doesn't remember saying this)

I'm gonna address this argument with 2 portions. 1) I'll address an issue I have with the argument. 2) My own personal opinion on this whole topic.

#1
The argument with Madara's horn is......weird to me. Part of the horn broke to a weaker Sekizo, and stood up to a stronger Sekizo. Wouldn't that logically just imply that that portion of the horn is inherently more durable than the bit that broke off? Like, if horn protrusions break off more easily than other portions, then wouldn't that imply that the same could be true for Kaguya as well? The thinner, protruding, portion of her horn broke off as well. We even see this with Momoshiki. It just doesn't seem like a very reliable scaling method to me, personally.

#2
Sakura being on this level is just very inconsistent, in my humble opinion.

Let's break it down...

• There's the whole narrative of her being on KCM Naruto and EMS Sasuke's level. Ya'll know what I'm talking about. It's super consistent narrative portrayal. There's also the Tsunade comparisons to keep in mind, and we know that Tsunade's hard capped below Madara's Perfect Susano'o, so again, the narrative just has her consistently in this 6-C range of power. This is consistent with the points I'm going to bring up below.
• It just logically makes no sense. Sakura was helpless to do anything beyond healing people during the Juubi fight. She was not faring much better against Juubito either. If she was this power-house all along, I feel like that would've come up before. And, please, don't bring up a silly argument such as "Juubito could fly" or "TSOs, though". Like the same issues applied to Naruto and Sasuke lmao. If she were THAT strong, there would've definitely been ways to use her. Also, neither of those things stopped her from rushing towards Madara or Kaguya, so like...
• Speaking of Madara, Sakura is VERY consistently NOT on his level. Like, we have her shaking from his very presence, and then after regaining her resolve, she rushed towards him. What happened then, you ask? He casually stops her in her tracks. She punched his Limbo, was completely stopped, and she thought she hit a literal wall. She was literally stopped and no-sold by Limbo Madara, who's equivalent to Madara himself. I do not see how this would support her being anywhere near this level.
• Now, here's her being in awe at the sheer power of Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o. Nothing crazy, just a piece of support.
• Here's the famous scene where Sasuke calls her out on being useless in the fight against MADARA, let alone Kaguya. Now, before ya'll goons hit me with a "Achshually, this was just set-up for Sasuke being proven wrong later on because Sakura and Kakashi ended up being instrumental to the defeat of Kaguya ". Like, okay, I know, chill out. The thing is, it doesn't change the fact that Sasuke was correct in that moment. He can see and assess the strength of people's chakra. This is a fact. So, while I understand the narrative argument that may come up, it just doesn't change the fact that Sasuke, in that moment, was definitely correct in terms of her and Kakashi's sheer combat capabilities. He just didn't account for other factors, such as Sakura assisting Obito in saving Sasuke, Kakashi's tactical abilities, or Obito coming back and giving Kakashi an amp by possessing him.
• Another smaller issue I have is the fact that, prior to that moment, Sakura had used up essentially all of her chakra in her effort to help Obito save Sasuke. She was definitely not at her best here.
• My final issue is with the mental amp/empowerment argument. I agree with mental amps being a thing. This is just a fact. It's a mechanic in-verse. So there's that. My issue is the fact that there has never, ever been a mental amp that takes someone from 6-C to 5-C. You know what? Let's actually forget the values from our fan calcs, because I believe the difference in verse is not that dramatic. So let's just look at scaling instead. You have Kaguya > Dual Rinnegan Juubidara > Shinju Juubidara > 1 Eye Juubidara >> Juubito > Uncontrolled Juubito > Juubi >~< Kurama/Perfect Susano'o Tiers >>>> Sakura tiers. I can't for the life of me recall any instance where a mental amp ever covered such a gargantuan gap in the series. In fact, you can argue she got a mental amp in the instance where she attacked Juubidara, and she still didn't cover the gap at all. I just don't see how this could be consistent.

So, yeah, like.....I can see the arguments, I just don't agree with them for my reasons. That's about all I've got to say here. Peace

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Not readin allat but nice work

 

[Damage3245]

So, yeah, like.....I can see the arguments, I just don't agree with them for my reasons. That's about all I've got to say here. Peace

Gotta agree with UchihaSlayer on this. Got me leaning to a disagree now.

 

[That_moron2]

I would’ve gone for ‘up to 5-C’ myself, but if ‘possibly 5-C‘ is more agreed upon, that’s fine.

Up to 5-C seems more appropriate to me.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Having read Slayer's post actually, I don't believe it necessarily defeats the notion of possibly 5-C with mental amps (or whatever you wanna call it), as end of the day, the argument of "but the gap in power for the mental amp to traverse is super big" is a bit incredulous. Like the notion of "because we haven't seen a mental amp of this scale before means it cannot happen" comes off very incredulous and kinda presupposes a multiplicative mechanic behind mental amps. That doesn't have to be the case, and if not then you have something like this. Kurama cloaked SPSM Naruto goes from ~90 exatons to over ~180 exatons with his mental amp, which is like an addition of over ~90 exatons worth of power. Meanwhile Sakura would be going from ~couple gigatons to ~45 exatons, which would be around a ~45 exaton addition of power. Thus in this scenario, Sakura's mental amp is less of an amp than a stronger character like Six Paths Naruto. Aka Sakura's mental amp is not inherently a more impressive bump in power depending on the lens you look at it through. I can understand, this being a bit too unclear then in turn to warrant even a possibly rating, really that's down to the nitty gritty of how much generosity you think needs to be extended for this scaling, and I can't say I have strong feelings either way.

I think Slayer does a great job at encompassing why the mental amp scaling shouldn't be a concrete value or a permanent amp tho. But basically I remain of the stance that possibly 5-C with mental amps seems fine. I don't think I'll argue further, as truthfully whether or not Sakura has a One Piece level tier 5 rating on her profile isn't a hill I care to die on. But yeah these are like my final thoughts as well.

 

[Testarossa002]

Oh boy

Again, it harkens back to her Naruto and Sauske scaling. It's absolutely NOT consistent for Naruto and Sasuke to scale to this value normally. The 15 Gigaton scaling comes from the Susano'o and the Rasenshuriken. These guys don't scale there physically, it's not consistent by any measure. This would scale Sasuke physically to the Susano'o, which makes no sense. Like, I don't feel like going into why these characters are more consistently on the "4.3 Gigaton" Spectrum physically, rather than the "15 Gigaton" one.

I believe the Naruto from the Three Way Deadlock scan is what people in the fandom refer to as KCM 1.5 as opposed to the regular KCM.
That version has a collar in its cloak. My point is that KCM 1 doesn't limit what 1.5 can do.
For Sasuke, he's stated to have surpassed Itachi's Ninjutsu and Dojutsu. Both of which are the components of the Susanoo. It's not like he scales exactly to the 15 Gigaton. In fact, Sasuke didn't need susanno to match Naruto's rasenshuriken when making Scorch Style: Nimbus Tempest. His Susanno was comparable to the Super Oodama Rasenshuriken which is way above the 15 Gigaton version that was partly responsible for the destruction of Nagato's CT.

So we went with 100H Sakura being relative to them physically, and relative to their strongest moves like the FRS or Susano'o with Byakugo, which consistent with Tsunade as well.

Tsunade also doesn't scale exactly to 15 Giga. The Scale is BE Tsunade>Madara's Susanno>Itachi's Susanno= 15 Gigatons

The argument with Madara's horn is......weird to me. Part of the horn broke to a weaker Sekizo, and stood up to a stronger Sekizo. Wouldn't that logically just imply that that portion of the horn is inherently more durable than the bit that broke off? Like, if horn protrusions break off more easily than other portions, then wouldn't that imply that the same could be true for Kaguya as well? The thinner, protruding, portion of her horn broke off as well. We even see this with Momoshiki. It just doesn't seem like a very reliable scaling method to me, personally.

Don't know why I didn't bring this up earlier but for Madara's horns, one horn is noticeably smaller than the other. Surprise surprise, it's the smaller one that breaks off when hit with Sekizo. The normal sized one was undamaged throughout the barrages.
Unlike Kaguya's whose 2 horns are of the same dimensions

• It just logically makes no sense. Sakura was helpless to do anything beyond healing people during the Juubi fight. She was not faring much better against Juubito either. If she was this power-house all along, I feel like that would've come up before. And, please, don't bring up a silly argument such as "Juubito could fly" or "TSOs, though". Like the same issues applied to Naruto and Sasuke lmao. If she were THAT strong, there would've definitely been ways to use her. Also, neither of those things stopped her from rushing towards Madara or Kaguya, so like...
• Speaking of Madara, Sakura is VERY consistently NOT on his level. Like, we have her shaking from his very presence, and then after regaining her resolve, she rushed towards him. What happened then, you ask? He casually stops her in her tracks. She punched his Limbo, was completely stopped, and she thought she hit a literal wall. She was literally stopped and no-sold by Limbo Madara, who's equivalent to Madara himself. I do not see how this would support her being anywhere near this level.
• Now, here's her being in awe at the sheer power of Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o. Nothing crazy, just a piece of support.
• Here's the famous scene where Sasuke calls her out on being useless in the fight against MADARA, let alone Kaguya. Now, before ya'll goons hit me with a "Achshually, this was just set-up for Sasuke being proven wrong later on because Sakura and Kakashi ended up being instrumental to the defeat of Kaguya ". Like, okay, I know, chill out. The thing is, it doesn't change the fact that Sasuke was correct in that moment. He can see and assess the strength of people's chakra. This is a fact. So, while I understand the narrative argument that may come up, it just doesn't change the fact that Sasuke, in that moment, was definitely correct in terms of her and Kakashi's sheer combat capabilities. He just didn't account for other factors, such as Sakura assisting Obito in saving Sasuke, Kakashi's tactical abilities, or Obito coming back and giving Kakashi an amp by possessing him.
• Another smaller issue I have is the fact that, prior to that moment, Sakura had used up essentially all of her chakra in her effort to help Obito save Sasuke. She was definitely not at her best here.

The point of my CRT isn't to show that Sakura is God tier level via regular means. That's why I initially suggested using an extra key or Arc's suggestion with an Empowerment amp. That's the whole point of the resolve section.

My final issue is with the mental amp/empowerment argument. I agree with mental amps being a thing. This is just a fact. It's a mechanic in-verse. So there's that. My issue is the fact that there has never, ever been a mental amp that takes someone from 6-C to 5-C. You know what? Let's actually forget the values from our fan calcs, because I believe the difference in verse is not that dramatic. So let's just look at scaling instead. You have Kaguya > Dual Rinnegan Juubidara > Shinju Juubidara > 1 Eye Juubidara >> Juubito > Uncontrolled Juubito > Juubi >~< Kurama/Perfect Susano'o Tiers >>>> Sakura tiers. I can't for the life of me recall any instance where a mental amp ever covered such a gargantuan gap in the series.

I also can't recall where a character's resolve/determination/mental amp had as much focus or elaboration like Sakura.

In fact, you can argue she got a mental amp in the instance where she attacked Juubidara, and she still didn't cover the gap at all. I just don't see how this could be consistent.

Madara chose to intercept the punch with limbo rather than just take it head on.
Limbo which is nigh invulnerable to physical attacks

So, yeah, like.....I can see the arguments, I just don't agree with them for my reasons. That's about all I've got to say here. Peace

Thanks for your input.
The CRT has been better received than I thought it'll be
Which alone is a W

 

[Testarossa002]

This is my final conclusion

Island level (Her power is regarded as being on par with Tsunade), possibly/likely Moon level with Empowerment/Mental amp (Can break off Kaguya's horn which should be at least as durable as that of Madara which can take multiple hits from Sekizo), higher with Byakugou (The release of chakra from the Hundred mark seal amps the user's power)

Speaking of which, i don't think we need to add the 7-B rating.
From that point on, SoHS became her new "base"

 

[Godernet]

This is my final conclusion

Speaking of which, i don't think we need to add the 7-B rating.
From that point on, SoHS became her new "base"

Neutral on the thread rn, but the possibly moon level via empowerment should go after the Byakugo’s power since her Byakugo is no where near the power higher of this hypothetical mental amp.

If everything else is fine it should be something like

Island lvl, higher with Byakugo, possibly Moon lvl with Mental Amp

 

[LordTracer]

Speaking of which, i don't think we need to add the 7-B rating.

She didn‘t have the Strength of a Hundred Seal throughout the entire War Arc, and several characters scale off of her 7-B base, so it needs to be there.

 

[Testarossa002]

Island lvl, higher with Byakugo, possibly Moon lvl with Mental Amp

That's alright

She didn‘t have the Strength of a Hundred Seal throughout the entire War Arc, and several characters scale off of her 7-B base, so it needs to be there.

Okay then

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

I'd suggest using something more specific than mental Amp. Like resolve or something of the Like.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I know I said I wouldn't comment again, and this will likely be my last comment fr fr. I just wanted to clear some stuff up.

Having read Slayer's post actually, I don't believe it necessarily defeats the notion of possibly 5-C with mental amps (or whatever you wanna call it), as end of the day, the argument of "but the gap in power for the mental amp to traverse is super big" is a bit incredulous. Like the notion of "because we haven't seen a mental amp of this scale before means it cannot happen" comes off very incredulous and kinda presupposes a multiplicative mechanic behind mental amps. That doesn't have to be the case, and if not then you have something like this. Kurama cloaked SPSM Naruto goes from ~90 exatons to over ~180 exatons with his mental amp, which is like an addition of over ~90 exatons worth of power. Meanwhile Sakura would be going from ~couple gigatons to ~45 exatons, which would be around a ~45 exaton addition of power. Thus in this scenario, Sakura's mental amp is less of an amp than a stronger character like Six Paths Naruto. Aka Sakura's mental amp is not inherently a more impressive bump in power depending on the lens you look at it through. I can understand, this being a bit too unclear then in turn to warrant even a possibly rating, really that's down to the nitty gritty of how much generosity you think needs to be extended for this scaling, and I can't say I have strong feelings either way.

I think Slayer does a great job at encompassing why the mental amp scaling shouldn't be a concrete value or a permanent amp tho. But basically I remain of the stance that possibly 5-C with mental amps seems fine. I don't think I'll argue further, as truthfully whether or not Sakura has a One Piece level tier 5 rating on her profile isn't a hill I care to die on. But yeah these are like my final thoughts as well.

It's not so much that I don't think it can happen. It's more so that we have a shit ton of precedent with "mental amps", and none are on this level. The bigger issue is that we have one from Sakura herself, in this very same arc, against an even weaker opponent, while she was in a much better condition physically, and it still didn't get her to that level.
So it's not that I'm arguing "this is impossible", and it's more like, "this is, in my opinion, still inconsistent even under the mental amp narrative".
And, I didn't argue values here, I argued from purely an in-verse scaling perspective.

But, like I said, if I'm outvoted, I can live with the compromise solution.

I believe the Naruto from the Three Way Deadlock scan is what people in the fandom refer to as KCM 1.5 as opposed to the regular KCM.
That version has a collar in its cloak. My point is that KCM 1 doesn't limit what 1.5 can do.

It's the same exact form. The "open collar" is simply because his jacket was damaged Post-Tenpechii. I blame Seth for spreading this dumbass KCM 1.5 myth.....

For Sasuke, he's stated to have surpassed Itachi's Ninjutsu and Dojutsu. Both of which are the components of the Susanoo. It's not like he scales exactly to the 15 Gigaton. In fact, Sasuke didn't need susanno to match Naruto's rasenshuriken when making Scorch Style: Nimbus Tempest. His Susanno was comparable to the Super Oodama Rasenshuriken which is way above the 15 Gigaton version that was partly responsible for the destruction of Nagato's CT.

He surpassed Itachi, but that doesn't mean he's physically stronger than his Susano'o...
We saw, very explicitly during the Kabuto fight, that he was still relative to Edo Itachi. And Edo Itachi's Susano'o is where the 15 Gigatons value comes from in the first place.
As for the Rasenshuriken feats, that was achieved via Amaterasu, which far upscales the Susano'o anyway, and again, has absolutely no bearing on his physical abilities.

Tsunade also doesn't scale exactly to 15 Giga. The Scale is BE Tsunade>Madara's Susanno>Itachi's Susanno= 15 Gigatons

That......just makes things worse.

Don't know why I didn't bring this up earlier but for Madara's horns, one horn is noticeably smaller than the other. Surprise surprise, it's the smaller one that breaks off when hit with Sekizo. The normal sized one was undamaged throughout the barrages.
Unlike Kaguya's whose 2 horns are of the same dimensions

The point was that the protrusions would logically be less durable. I still don't see a connection between Kaguya's horn and Madara's cap.

The point of my CRT isn't to show that Sakura is God tier level via regular means. That's why I initially suggested using an extra key or Arc's suggestion with an Empowerment amp. That's the whole point of the resolve section.

Well, I definitely disagree with any sort of permanent amp, or any suggestion that she was this powerful all along.

I also can't recall where a character's resolve/determination/mental amp had as much focus or elaboration like Sakura.

Ermmmm, nah, it definitely came up a few times.

Madara chose to intercept the punch with limbo rather than just take it head on.
Limbo which is nigh invulnerable to physical attacks

Madara choosing not to eat an attack isn't really grounds for the attack to scale to him, like at all.
Also Limbo isn't invulnerable to damage. It's just impossible to physically interact with unless Madara chooses for it to interact with something, or you have Six Paths chakra.

Thanks for your input.
The CRT has been better received than I thought it'll be
Which alone is a W

Hey, I meant what I said lol. Best CRT on the subject by far.

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

Disagree FRA

If she was this power-house all along, I feel like that would've come up before.

Are you trying to tell me that it doesn’t makes sense that the Sakura that should’ve been able to just one-shot Spiral Zetsu's Mokuton just sat there until she and the rest of the Alliance just wasted their reserves? I believe you're being unreasonable here, mate /s

 

[Golden_Void]

KCM with the collar/cloak is regular kcm. The chakra mode (which can be thought of as a nerfed version) that dodged Raikage was KCM without Kurama's full support.

Disagree FRA

Are you trying to tell me that it doesn’t makes sense that the Sakura that should’ve been able to just one-shot Spiral Zetsu's Mokuton just sat there until she and the rest of the Alliance just wasted their reserves? I believe you're being unreasonable here, mate /s

Isn't Kurama cloak like a 3x multiplier or something for the war fodder? So Sakura was still useless against buffed Yamato while being heavily amped falls in line with getting neg-diffed by limbo. Wouldn't she be weaker than revived one-eye Madara with Hashirama sage mode who neg-diffed Tobirama, who intimidated EMS Sasuke by flexing his chakra?

 

[Nightshade]

VHD crt when?