Naruto - Killer Bee and Kisame 6-C clarification

[MinatoSparkle]

There's basically nothing in that scene supporting this intepretation. Kisame says that Roshi's Lava Style is nothing to laugh about, difficult to deal with, he doesn't exclude Itachi from this general statement.

He says that Itachi can't understand "my pain."

Since Kisame vs Roshi was off screen and this scene with Kisame is some time after that fight, we basically can't infer how much damage Kisame took. And Itachi being Kisame's superior (only really portrayed that way in Part 1, not that I'm saying Itachi isn't stronger) doesn't mean he wouldn't have some difficulties with Roshi.

As I said, his cloak isn't damaged at all like it was against Bee, so clearly he didn't take that much damage.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

He says that Itachi can't understand "my pain."

So? If I understand the pain of someone else that doesn't exclude me experiencing the same pain. In fact, experiencing the same pain is like...the main way of understanding similar pain in others. Y'know, the whole jinchuriki thing as a simple example?

As I said, his cloak isn't damaged at all like it was against Bee, so clearly he didn't take that much damage.

As I said, since Kisame vs Roshi was off screen and this scene is an unquantifiable period after the fight, we can't infer how much damage Kisame took.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

So? If I understand the pain of someone else that doesn't exclude me experiencing the same pain. In fact, experiencing the same pain is like...the main way of understanding similar pain in others. Y'know, the whole jinchuriki thing as a simple example?

It doesn't exclude it, but it doesn't have to include it. The burden's not on me if you're claiming it is the case.

As I said, since Kisame vs Roshi was off screen and this scene is an unquantifiable period after the fight, we can't infer how much damage Kisame took.

It's clearly not long after given that they haven't had time to report Roshi's defeat to Pain. Not enough time to get a new cloak.

 

[Nierre]

Kisame definitely low diff'd that man

Was the fight shown in the anime at all?

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

It doesn't exclude it, but it doesn't have to include it. The burden's not on me if you're claiming it is the case.

The burden is on you to prove Kisame was excluding Itachi when making the general statement that Roshi's Lava Release is tough to deal with.

It's clearly not long after given that they haven't had time to report Roshi's defeat to Pain. Not enough time to get a new cloak.

They have no way of contacting Pain, Pain is the one who contacts them through connecting to them so they can astral project. So this doesn't prove it wasn't long after.

Kisame definitely low diff'd that man

Was the fight shown in the anime at all?

Some non-canon filler

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Okay, so, first off I agree with Sparkle's take regarding the Itachi thing. But it's such a small, relatively inconsequential thing overall, so whatever.

Secondly, great job overall. You did a whole lot more than I expected you to lol. Major props for improving his P&A section. Massive W from you. The descriptions in the P&A section are generally really good, but question. Would you mind adding references (and possibly scans as well) to it? Technically, you don't have to since you didn't need to revise the P&A section in the first place, but it would be the cherry on top. And nowadays, it's kinda the new standard to add references and scans to stuff when possible. It's totally fine if you can't, though. I'll get to it eventually.

Other than that, I guess the only things I'd improve regarding the P&A section would be adding the general Ice resistance that everyone should have, among a few accepted basic Ninja stuff that I recently got accepted. I can add them to the sandbox if you'd like.

Also, maybe a description for his Enhanced Senses. I think him being a Silent Killing user is the reason he has it. And also probably being able to navigate his underground movement.

Finally,

• Supernatural Willpower (Despite being unconscious, Kisame is able to wake himself up through sheer willpower)
• Immense Pain Tolerance (Laughed off having his chest blown open by Bee's Lariat. He bit off his own tongue in order to avoid giving up intel, and willingly let himself get eaten alive by sharks without making a single noise)

Both of these should be merged into his Supernatural Willpower justification. Some of it can also go on his Stamina justification.

As for the AP section, it's largely good. You already know I disagree with the Itachi bit. Other than that, I guess I have a couple of minor suggestions.

Varies with Chakra Absorption physically (Kisame can absorb chakra with Samehada, making him more powerful)

I think the "physically" should be removed, as he kinda Varies in general based on the chakra he absorbs. His Jutsu also benefit from the absorbed chakra, so it should just be "Varies with Chakra absorption". Also, I'd like to expand upon the varies justification slightly if that's cool with you. Nothing major, just adding a scan and reference for it.

Finally,

Island level with Samehada and Water Style

This should be "up to Island level".

That's about it. Again, great job overall. My gripes are very, very minor.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Okay, so, first off I agree with Sparkle's take regarding the Itachi thing. But it's such a small, relatively inconsequential thing overall, so whatever.

Secondly, great job overall. You did a whole lot more than I expected you to lol. Major props for improving his P&A section. Massive W from you. The descriptions in the P&A section are generally really good, but question. Would you mind adding references (and possibly scans as well) to it? Technically, you don't have to since you didn't need to revise the P&A section in the first place, but it would be the cherry on top. And nowadays, it's kinda the new standard to add references and scans to stuff when possible. It's totally fine if you can't, though. I'll get to it eventually.

Other than that, I guess the only things I'd improve regarding the P&A section would be adding the general Ice resistance that everyone should have, among a few accepted basic Ninja stuff that I recently got accepted. I can add them to the sandbox if you'd like.

Also, maybe a description for his Enhanced Senses. I think him being a Silent Killing user is the reason he has it. And also probably being able to navigate his underground movement.

Finally,

Both of these should be merged into his Supernatural Willpower justification. Some of it can also go on his Stamina justification.

As for the AP section, it's largely good. You already know I disagree with the Itachi bit. Other than that, I guess I have a couple of minor suggestions.


I think the "physically" should be removed, as he kinda Varies in general based on the chakra he absorbs. His Jutsu also benefit from the absorbed chakra, so it should just be "Varies with Chakra absorption". Also, I'd like to expand upon the varies justification slightly if that's cool with you. Nothing major, just adding a scan and reference for it.

Finally,

This should be "up to Island level".

That's about it. Again, great job overall. My gripes are very, very minor.

Thanks for the evaluation man, I'll make these suggested changes

And sure you can add the general ninjutsu stuff and any relevant edits

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Kisame definitely low diff'd that man

Was the fight shown in the anime at all?

They were shown rushing towards each other, but it cut-off right before they actually clashed. Kisame was riding a massive wave, and Roshi was in LCM IIRC.
The only insight into the fight that we have comes from the 3rd Databook. It stated that Kisame defeated his Roshi amped Lava Release using Samehada and his Suiton.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Kisame vs Roshi

It was a flashback in the anime by Samehada because Samehada got bad vibes from Roshi's Lava

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

because Samehada got bad vibes from Roshi's Lava

Lmao

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

This might be good to add to Chakra Manipulation from DB1:

チャクラ

術発動のためのエネルギー源

チャクラとは分かり易く言えば、術のエネルギー源。忍の体の精神·身体エネルギーは、合わせてスタミナと呼ばれ、これを体 内で術発動 源のチャクラに変換するのである。また変換への効率の良し悪し は、術者の能力に左右される。限られ たスタミナを効率良く変換するということは、より多くの術を発動可能にす の術を発動可館にす 力を活性化させる。これにより忍は、る。また、チャクラは一時的に身体能超人的な身体能力を発揮するのだ。

Chakra

The energy source for the activation of jutsu.

チャクラ, put simply, is the energy source for jutsu. The mental and physical energy in a ninja's body, collectively known as stamina, is converted into chakra, the source for jutsu, within the body. The efficiency of this conversion depends on the abilities of the practitioner. Efficiently converting limited stamina enables the activation of more jutsu, thereby activating the potential power within the practitioner. Through this process, a ninja can temporarily exhibit superhuman physical abilities.

Spiritual Energy + Physical Energy, it is crucial to balance these two elements.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Well, I made a bunch of edits. And I may have accidentally messed with your last one, my bad lol.
But I think the profile looks better now. I added as many scans and references as I had on me at the moment.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Well, I made a bunch of edits. And I may have accidentally messed with your last one, my bad lol.
But I think the profile looks better now. I added as many scans and references as I had on me at the moment.

Looks good so far, thanks for the support

I am compelled to turn those upper cases to lower cases, my autism demands it

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Anytime lmao

Go for it nerd!

 

[LordTracer]

Aight, the sandbox was shared with me, and there’s a few things that I’m not a fan of.

Kisame was confident in his ability to take down Killer Bee (with Bee being unrestricted from bijū mode) even with Bee's reputation as the "most perfect jinchuriki".[39]

Confidence scaling is gross and shouldn’t be used, especially when Kisame already has more solid stuff putting him on this level.

Kisame is also superior to Suigetsu Hōzuki, who with a water source was strong enough to hold off Killer Bee using bijū mode. Kisame, being a superior Water Style user, may be capable of the same or greater, especially with techniques like the Great Shark Bullet which is greater than Tate Eboshi in size

There’s no scan justifying Kisame being stronger than Suigetsu, and Suigetsu’s feats with Tate Eboshi are already listed on his profile, so they don’t need to be restated here. I would condense it like this:

Kisame, being a superior Water Release user to Suigetsu, should be capable of a similar or greater output to Tate Eboshi, especially with techniques such as the Great Shark Bullet that surpass Tate Eboshi in size

There’s also this line in his Water Manip justification:

Kisame practically owns Water Style, arguably the greatest user the series.

The bolded part is what I take issue with. Unless there’s an actual statement saying this, it shouldn’t be included on the profile.
Also, his Water Manip justification is just a big wall of white text, could you like… add scans to it? Like, it mentions a lot of techniques and what they do, it would be nice to have scans that actually show these things. Also the one scan in that justification doesn’t have a reference, so that needs to be added.

There’s some other formatting things I have issues with, but @UchihaSlayer96 said he’d fix them so I won‘t list them here.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Confidence scaling is gross and shouldn’t be used

Why should it be discarded when a character thinks they're superior to another?

There’s no scan justifying Kisame being stronger than Suigetsu, and Suigetsu’s feats with Tate Eboshi are already listed on his profile, so they don’t need to be restated here. I would condense it like this:

Ok

The bolded part is what I take issue with. Unless there’s an actual statement saying this, it shouldn’t be included on the profile.
Also, his Water Manip justification is just a big wall of white text, could you like… add scans to it? Like, it mentions a lot of techniques and what they do, it would be nice to have scans that actually show these things. Also the one scan in that justification doesn’t have a reference, so that needs to be added.

Ok

Sure, it's not completed yet which is why some parts lack scans and references

 

[LordTracer]

Why should it be discarded when a character thinks they're superior to another?

Because the character could just be a cocky bastard? Being confident that you can do something isn’t the same as actually being able to do it, and as I mentioned, Kisame has actual solid scaling putting him at 6-C, there’s no need for something as flimsy as “he was confident tho”.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Because the character could just be a cocky bastard? Being confident that you can do something isn’t the same as actually being able to do it, and as I mentioned, Kisame has actual solid scaling putting him at 6-C, there’s no need for something as flimsy as “he was confident tho”.

Sure, but the opposite is used all the time with no problem like a character claiming they're inferior to someone else, would you be as skeptical about that as well?

 

[LordTracer]

Sure, but the opposite is used all the time with no problem like a character claiming they're inferior to someone else, would you be as skeptical about that as well?

… no, because admitting inferiority to someone is not the same as going “yeah I could totally beat this guy I’ve never encountered before“.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

… no, because admitting inferiority to someone is not the same as going “yeah I could totally beat this guy I’ve never encountered before“.

Uh, yeah sure it is

"I am superior to this person I have never encountered before"

"I am inferior to this person I have never encountered before"

Why should we take one seriously and not the other?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

… no, because admitting inferiority to someone is not the same as going “yeah I could totally beat this guy I’ve never encountered before“.

The statement is after the full fight with Bee

 

[LordTracer]

The statement is after the full fight with Bee

It’s not. Kisame’s statement is very clearly in a flashback before he goes after B, since Obito says “once I’ve declared war”, meaning that he hasn’t done so yet, and Kisame‘s fight with B happened after Obito declared war.

Uh, yeah sure it is

"I am superior to this person I have never encountered before"

"I am inferior to this person I have never encountered before"

Why should we take one seriously and not the other?

I can’t exactly explain this if you don’t tell me which statement you’re referring to. You say such a thing is used “all the time”, so could you provide an example?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

It’s not. Kisame’s statement is very clearly in a flashback before he goes after B, since Obito says “once I’ve declared war”, meaning that he hasn’t done so yet, and Kisame‘s fight with B happened after Obito declared war.

I know that, but he even after the battle, he thinks to himself that it'll be tough, but not that he doesn't believe he can accomplish the mission.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Honestly, guys, does it matter? We actually see the fight, and Kisame does win.
All Tracer is saying is that confidence scaling is usually shaky, not that he disagrees with the scaling itself.
Personally, I think it's context dependant. It's not always valid or invalid.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Off-topic, but do you guys think Kisame can breathe underwater in base? He does seem to have gills.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Off-topic, but do you guys think Kisame can breathe underwater in base? He does seem to have gills.

I think he can personally since he's literally part shark.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Honestly, guys, does it matter? We actually see the fight, and Kisame does win.
All Tracer is saying is that confidence scaling is usually shaky, not that he disagrees with the scaling itself.
Personally, I think it's context dependant. It's not always valid or invalid.

That's fine but in my opinion confidence scaling is a legitimate as "nonconfidence" scaling until it's contradicted.

Off-topic, but do you guys think Kisame can breathe underwater in base? He does seem to have gills.

Hmm I'm on the fence leaning towards no tbh

 

[LordTracer]

All Tracer is saying is that confidence scaling is usually shaky, not that he disagrees with the scaling itself.

Exactly, and I don’t want shaky scaling on the profile especially when the character already has scaling that makes it redundant.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Ok, I'll remove it from the profile if both of you want it gone

Anyways, is it fair to give Kisame resistance to Zabuza's fear inducing aura? He kinda sons Zabuza like Suigetsu, it's pretty funny