Naruto and Sasuke scaling justification for moon level tier from chibuku tensei

[Dariel_Senju]

Sasuke didn't lose the Chibaku Tensei, since the Chibaku Tensei has nothing to do with the seals issued by Rikudo Sennin. Those seals are only necessary for Rikudo Chibaku Tensei but they aren't even necessary to create it, but to seal the power of Kaguya, the seals of the Sun and Moon are required to annul the powers of Kaguya, to create the Rikudo Chibaku Tensei is only needed of two people with the Yin Released and Yang Released, and of course at least one of them is able to use Chibaku Tensei.

To mention that the characters of Naruto are so level when performing such technique seems to me most logical, at least I have always put it in such a way.

What I don't understand is the approach of who opened this thread, saying that for Naruto to be considered such or such thing needs to be seen destroy some portion of the Moon with an attack, things don't work well my friend. I don't understand how you can conclude that to be upgraded to a certain tier you need to see it doing such a thing, not even have calculated most of Naruto's feats, not even the best feats have been calculated and if they have been they have been pesciamente considered so saying that Naruto can only be such a thing if it is shown doing what you say doesn't make sense since there is a possibility that in Naruto have better feats than what you ask.

 

[Badboybilly1000]

Naruto and saskue own did not even look like a moon nor was it the size of one.

 

[Burstchaos]

Wouldn't they be moon level through power-scaling since they were capable of hurting Kaguya who was stronger than the Sage who should definitely scale to the CT since it was from his own power.

Plus, I'm pretty sure the argument "they didn't destroy the planet so they can't be moon level" would be ignored by default since that is one of the basics of this site?.

 

[Badboybilly1000]

Kaguya was holding back because shewanted thier chakra. They could not beat her only seal her

 

[Antvasima]

Burstchaos makes some good points.

 

[DodoNova2]

I agree; maybe it is better to clarify the Moon level (+) by:

"Naruto was able to hold head, tear an arm and Severely damaged Kaguya which is Declared to be more powerful than even the Six Ways Sage.

Sasuke via powerscaling (because he did not do much during the fight)

 

[Ryop]

I think the Sage was able to create a moon level CT only with his brother like Naruto and Saskue,no?

 

[Blanked]

Yes.

 

[Ryop]

Then that not make him moon level,his attacks not scale to CT,like in Naruto and Saskue case

 

[Lord_Hades_Prince_Of_Darkness]

Well I do know that Toneri in the last said that Hamura's power could move the moon.

Toneri also was able to dislodge the moon from orbit, with his tenseigan just being removed and Naruto is superior to Toneri.

So I guess this version of Naruto can be scaled off the movie version.

That's only if anyone accepts Toneri's claim about Hamura's power being able to move the moon or if Toneri's moon dislodging feat is accepted.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

@Ryop

The thing is,he provided Naruto and Sasuke the power to do the same.I mean,Naruto and Sasuke went from high6c to Moon lvl only because of Hagoromo,in his prime he should be superior to both of them combined.

@Lord Hades Prince Of Darkness

Toneri is already high6a for being able to move a moon and cut it.

 

[Ryop]

Dzhindzholia- It doesn't make any sense Hagoromo had the ability to seal Kaguya alone becuse he needed his brother in order to do that back then,he probably was able to give this to Naruto and Sasuke becuse his brother dead so his seal pass to Hagoromo or something

 

[Omimi]

r u guys arguing that ct does not require chakra .....if u r then.........double facepalm

+Hagoromo is easily Small Planet level ( Provided Naruto and Sasuke the ability/chakra to Created the moon)

and kurama said sasuke is on Hagoromo level

+ here sasuke used all of kaguya chakra to fought against naruto so i think both naruto and sasuke can be scale from this/kaguya

 

[Dzhindzholia]

@Ryop

"he probably was able to give this to Naruto and Sasuke becuse his brother dead so his seal pass to Hagoromo or something"

Lets just stop doing "maby it was like...."etc,the manga doesnt contain this.Also,so what if he needed his brother?.If 2 people can lift 50kg together,it doesnt mean that each of them can not do that,maby a little more difficult.Also,dont you think the Sage became stronger after they seal her,i mean he had a whole life to become stronger.Also,Hagoromo>>>>>Naruto&Sasuke>>Toneri that can move the moon and cut it

 

[Dzhindzholia]

@Omimi

This case is different,Sasuke just sucked the chakra from the bijuus,he didnt seal the bijuus inside Susanoo,so it is nowhere near Kaguya that had all 9 bijuus not only their chakra+chakra of every human that she can suck.I suppose Sasuke would be able to do that Susanoo again but only with massive reserves of chakra(wich he doesnt have).

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Chakra can be used for amping stats and creating jutsu. As stated in Naruto in part one and shown throughout the series, all jutsu require a certain amount of chakra to use. I don't understand why you all are saying SPCT doesn't scale to stats when there are already previously established mechanics in the Naruto verse that prove the chakra used for SPCT can be used for stats amping. The fact that SPCT didn't tax their reserves goes to show that are overall superior to the Jutsu. I'd argue that the PS and the chakra flowing throw Naruto's body in Six Paths Chakra Mode is >= what's required for SPCT.

And Kaguya got hurt after she had decided to already kill them, so that argument is Null, granted she was low on chakra, she was still strong enough to stomp Sasuke.

I'd say leave it as is. And @Gwynbleidds comparison is faulty. CT for pain was taxing as it required a lot of his chakra plus he was already taxed from the fight before, for Madara and Naruto/Sasuke, CT wasn't taxing which designates again that again their chakra reserves vastly outweigh the jutsu requirement, all of tbis is still negated on the basis that they can amplify their stats with the same chakra requirement which doesn't even tax them.

So, I'll propose this question, how are you gonna demote them when the requirement is low taxing and chakra used for PS and Chakra mode could very well be => SPCT.

Even then, there is basis to scale them as Six Paths Naruto, Sasuke and Madara are vastly superior to The Last Naruto physically as that's only KCM + SM. BSM would at least be 5x superior overall as shown in the power jump from KCM to BM.

Six Paths Chakra Mode > Base Six Paths Sage Mode > BSM > KCSM (By at least 5x). And KCSM is the one with Multi-Continent+ stats.

If anything, bringing this up gives basis to upgrade them rather than degrade them.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

Why people bring "Kaguya wastn trying to kill them"?How does this relate to her durability?AP maby,but not dura.

 

[Blanked]

How is getting sealed relate to her durabilty?

 

[Dzhindzholia]

one guy: Naruto was able to harm Kaguya,so he should scale.

other guy:No,she wasnt trying to kill them she tried to absorb their chakra.

 

[Omimi]

WilliamShadowHow is getting sealed relate to her durabilty?
naruto was able to tank her attack(same attack that stomp sasuke PS) and hurt her physically

+naruto broke her chakra arms

kaguya chakra arms durabilty>sasuke PS durabilty

 

[Ryop]

Dzhindzholia-But again,it just dont make any sense at all

If Hagoromo could seal her alone he would simply do CT and the fight would over in second

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Dzhindzholia-But again,it just dont make any sense at all

If Hagoromo could seal her alone he would simply do CT and the fight would over in second

PIS aside, Hagoromo couldn't as he wasn't able to enter the real world until well after.

 

[Omimi]

Dzhindzholia-But again,it just dont make any sense at all
If Hagoromo could seal her alone he would simply do CT and the fight would over in second

do i really need to tell u how shonen manga work lol

in boruto manga/movie boruto was able to beat momo via power up from base naruto but naruto he himself couldnt lol

 

[Blanked]

That didn't answer my question. Sasuke and Naruto's AP can't be scaled from Moon thing as that is just a sealing spell nothing more it's a environmental Destruction not their AP.

And Kaguya can't scale her durabilty from it cause the attack didn't essentially hit her, but seal her away.

 

[Ryop]

Dzhindzholia-But again,it just dont make any sense at all

If Hagoromo could seal her alone he would simply do CT and the fight would over in second

PIS aside, Hagoromo couldn't as he wasn't able to enter the real world until well after.

What are you talking about? becuse i meat to when he fought against Kaguya with his bro,when he was alive

 

[Omimi]

What are you talking about? becuse i meat to when he fought against Kaguya with his bro,when he was alive

duh........... he was weak thats why he couldnt but after time passed he become strong

1000 years ago he was weak but after 1000 years he become stong hope u understand now

 

[Dzhindzholia]

@WilliamShadow

This thread goes in circle,read my inputs higher.Also @Burstchaos makes sence.

 

[Ryop]

Omimi-But Hagoromo already said kaguya stronger than him,claiming that he suddenly become stronger than her it just speculation

 

[Ryop]

besides,even if we assuming Hagoromo become stronger than her it just means Naruto and Saskue can't sacle to him due to being able to hurt kaguya like Burstchaos claim becuse kaguya not stronger than Hagoromo

 

[TheFinalOrder]

That didn't answer my question. Sasuke and Naruto's AP can't be scaled from Moon thing as that is just a sealing spell nothing more it's a environmental Destruction not their AP.

And Kaguya can't scale her durabilty from it cause the attack didn't essentially hit her, but seal her away.

Jutsu produces a gravity core that pulls up the land. In the case SPCT, it turns it's target into the Core. The energy required to do that what's split between them, not the environmental destruction, which still be moon level+.

And the core is what produced that that energy. No different than, Zeus creating an Island in DCEU i guess.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

PIS aside, Hagoromo couldn't as he wasn't able to enter the real world until well after.
What are you talking about? becuse i meat to when he fought against Kaguya with his bro,when he was alive

Oh, well, you're assuming he had both seals when they initially fought. It's shown that he didn't, so, even if he had the chakra, he wouldn't be able to use the Jutsu without both seals which he obviously obtained after the fact.

 

[Ryop]

Oh, well, you're assuming he had both seals when they initially fought. It's shown that he didn't, so, even if he had the chakra, he wouldn't be able to use the Jutsu without both seals which he obviously obtained after the fact.

But like i said,even if we going to assume he suddenly got the ability to make moon CT by himself after that and he dont have to do that with his brother Naruto and Saskue can't sacle to this becuse kaguya isnt stronger than Hagoromo at that point,since he can one shot her with seal CT

 

[TheFinalOrder]

besides,even if we assuming Hagoromo become stronger than her it just means Naruto and Saskue can't sacle to him due to being able to hurt kaguya like Burstchaos claim becuse kaguya not stronger than Hagoromo

• Kaguya > Prime Hags
• Juubi Jin Hags > Kaguya
• Kaguya > Old Hags >= Prime Hags.

It's seriously not that hard. And again, Kaguya was low on chakra when she got hurt. Chakra is tied to stamina which is tied to stats. Obvious progression:

100% Kaguya = Couldn't be harmed

Kaguya Low on Chakra/Stamina = Superior to Sasuke but can be injured by Naruto.

There you have it.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

But like i said,even if we going to assume he suddenly got the ability to make moon CT by himself after that and he dont have to do that with his brother Naruto and Saskue can't sacle to this becuse kaguya isnt stronger than Hagoromo at that point,since he can one shot her with seal CT

No, he isn't stronger than her at all unless he is the Jinchuriki. Naruto or Sasuke could one shot her if they had both seals. The reason he didn't give Either or both seals and all his chakra is an entirely different story.

 

[Ryop]

^Sorry i dont understand what you said,how can Kaguya be stronger than hagoromo if he has the ability to one shot her with CT

 

[TheFinalOrder]

This is what you all are forgetting:

• Juubi Jin Hagoromo > Kaguya > Prime Hagoromo = Hamura

• Old Hagoromo >= Prime Hagoromo

• Old Hagoromo = Gave 50% of his Chakra to Naruto and Sasuke apiece.

So, Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is low end for all of them. Chakra mechanics in Naruto is what scales them.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

^Sorry i dont understand what you said,how can Kaguya be stronger than hagoromo if he has the ability to one shot her with CT

That logic is faulty as it can be used to argue Naruto and Sasuke are superior to Kaguya, which is false.

SPCT strips Kaguya of all of her chakra. And that's that. Why it affects her has nothing to do with being stronger than her.

 

[Omimi]

Omimi-But Hagoromo already said kaguya stronger than him,claiming that he suddenly become stronger than her it just speculation

he didnt become stronger

seal is hax so its works on stronger people too

if i remember correctly

ssj 2 trunk(High 4-C) is weaker then black goku(3-A) yet he can and did seal him

even thou ssj2 trunk is High 4-C but he was able to seal 3-A character

it mean even if u r weak u can still seal someone who is stronger then u

 

[Badboybilly1000]

Concering toreino wasnt he able to move the moon at first with the device that contained his clan eyes and after that only after he got hinata sisters eyes got a massive power up

 

[7th_Ki'oon]

The issue with moon+ level energy for naruto and Sasuke, is that it's negligible, because 1. Sussano'o and bijuu need alot of chakra to maintain, but Sussano'o doesn't have any high level feats nearing country level and the bijuu data which does take alot of chakra to use hasn't been more than large island level, for naruto, in addition only the Juubi appears to have country and above busting potential, as demonstrated throughout the end of the war arc.

2 . the more powerful the jutsu the more energy it needs, look at Kamui, should kakashi get a town level enhancement for every additional use of Kamui, beyond his two a day limit from the gaara arc?! Plus, it harmed the gedo, which was the Juubi and by extension Kaguya's body, so does he get moon level scaling for destroying it's arm, probably not. Nor does having country level chakra like kisame give him equal durability nor afternoon tiger gai AP. He got island level, I believe.

3. This where the scaling for energy gets weird in naruto, as noted above. Jutsu don't rescale in power, the more chakra a user has, (unless it's the rassegan) they do for using more powerful jutsu, and with repeated use capacity. Like Hashirama.