Name the weakest characters from your verses who can defeat Goku (DBS).

[TheGatememer]

"Speed Equalized" is part of standard battle assumptions :/ If we didn't have it then most fights would just come down to who is faster.

 

[Daddybrawl]

It’s not Standard Battle Assumptions, but it is commonly utilized.

 

[TheGatememer]

nvm then, thought it was part of it. Point still stands that it isn't really downplay. I even did one where speed was unequal.

 

[elhermanopadre]

1. I don't recall him having any resistance to death hax, as its never been used on him. If he does, then Myson reduces his health to the point where he can one shot, Ashera petrifies, Marth/Chrom/Lucina can passively mindhax him. AE is abstract existence.
2. I don't recall him having any resistance to mind hax. I can only see empathetic hax, which is different from mindhax.
4. Yes. If not then Tabuu durability negates.
5. ok?
6. Mafuba is very out of character for Goku to use, let alone lead with.
7. Mafuba is ooc. Charles manipulates his bones so they melt.

1) Here and here , it all implies negating death hax by being superior. It doesn't matter if it was use on him , he's superior to those 2 saiyan's (nappa and vegeta , he even beat them in battle). How does myson reduces is health , explain yourself.

2) Read my post above talking UI and MUI (it's in the same thread , but I will copy past it)

"In time, he becomes so hot and fasts that even such perception grows dim and fades.", "and all he can feel is himself, his opponents, and the fight."

Can't change his perceptions AKA, things like illusions and mind-based hax will not work. (For illusions and mind hax's he could already see threw them with is the third eye back in original DB and more recently with the forest of Terrors in super)

"Hesitation, panic, fear itself turn to nothing in the flames..."

AKA, resistance to fear manipulation, and Madness hax's (panic and going insane is a result of madness manipulation).

"Madness Manipulation is the ability to affect the sanity of other beings, usually in a manner that causes them to become insane. "

4) In your earlier post you didn't even gave an explanations you just said Imao rip , and how does tabuu negates durability (all assuming goku didn't blitz him and one shotted him before he can do anything)

5) ok

6) It isn't out of character , he learned that technique to try to beat zamasu's immortality , if he sees that he's opponent is keep comming back from death everytime he destroyed them , then this is the option to go.

7) Explain yourself , OOC ? Bone melt by what ? Is it acid manipulation or heat , that is assuming goku didn't one shot him already.

 

[elhermanopadre]

nvm then, thought it was part of it. Point still stands that it isn't really downplay. I even did one where speed was unequal.

Yes, it is, you make your character speed equal to that of Goku when they aren't, that to me sounds like downplaying obviously. Unequal, he still blitzes harder and one-shots no diff , if those characters aren't are far slower than him , there is no way they will be able to touch , or react to Goku.

 

[Daddybrawl]

Real quick, for the last two, it is very, very out of character, Lol. 0 Interpretations of Goku have even tried to use the Mafuba, at least that we see.
OOC means Out of Character, and it’s neither, it’s Bone Manipulation.

 

[elhermanopadre]

Real quick, for the last two, it is very, very out of character, Lol. 0 Interpretations of Goku have even tried to use the Mafuba, at least that we see.
OOC means Out of Character, and it’s neither, it’s Bone Manipulation.

It isn't out of character, what is out of character is him holding back or not one-shotting fodders in this threat instantly. There is nothing out of character for the mafuba , you fail to realize to prove why. And yes he learned how to use the mafuba , just because he didn't use it doesn't mean he can't (against zamasu he obviously learned it to use it against zamasu). And for the bone stuff, to what kind of character he used against? city level? wall level?

 

[00potato]

Would he be able to even melt bones that strong?

 

[Daddybrawl]

I did prove why. It’s out of character for him to use the Mafuba because he never uses the Mafuba. It’s that simple- just because USA owns nukes doesn’t mean we nuke everyone, it’d be out of character, the same logic is applied here.
Once again, Goku doesn’t ignore Hax just by being stronger. In fact, that was once even a concept for a character, just look at Guldo from dbz, he’s weak but uses Hax to ensure victory. And Hax is meant to ignore Durability- why wouldn’t he be able to melt bones that strong?

 

[elhermanopadre]

Would he be able to even melt bones that strong?

Exactly , they fail tho realise , that goku AP is comparable to is Durability which is on a Universal to Universal+ going by what he was rated in vs wiki battle.

 

[elhermanopadre]

I did prove why. It’s out of character for him to use the Mafuba because he never uses the Mafuba. It’s that simple- just because USA owns nukes doesn’t mean we nuke everyone, it’d be out of character, the same logic is applied here.
Once again, Goku doesn’t ignore Hax just by being stronger. In fact, that was once even a concept for a character, just look at Guldo from dbz, he’s weak but uses Hax to ensure victory. And Hax is meant to ignore Durability- why wouldn’t he be able to melt bones that strong?

You failed, once more, Goku asked for roshi to teach him mafuba to deal with zamasu's immortality, that is not out of character, you are the one not using logic. There is nothing out of character if he has to deal with similar situations like for zamasu.

Is it for the death hax one? I just proved you wrong with the 2 scans above. It doesn't matter, hax's are still being resisted because they are stronger, you make no sense, that one Guldo example doesn't disprove hax's being resisted because they are far stronger than their opponent, Jiren, Vegito, Majin Vegeta, all resisted hax's because they were stronger than their opponent.

Again you fail to realize, that haxs can be resisted.

Once more, that bone-melting was it used on city levels, wall level characters? who's bones are only on that level of durability? and again that is assuming they could react to Goku and he wouldn't stand their not blitzing and one-shotting them with neg diff.

 

[Daddybrawl]

My turn.

Marvel Comics (Hulk Section): Admeus Cho seems to be the weakest character in that section. In that case, type 4 Immortality, a seemingly passive Attack Reflection via Hidden Technology, Information Analysis to predict everything Goku does, alongside Teleportation to dodge attacks as soon as he even thinks they’re coming. Surprisingly, he stands a good chance. Can’t tell if he’d win though, I honestly don’t know that much about the character.

Marvel Comics in general: J Jonah Jameson is the weakest character, and he loses, hard. Weakest character that can beat Goku is probably...Gwenpool? Goku couldn’t escape out of the Gutterspace (it’s a 4th wall thing, higher dimension and whatnot), so BFR would work, Paper Memories and 4th Wall Awareness let her do some pretty wacky stuff. If needed, she can even summon other 4th wall breakers.

 

[Daddybrawl]

@elhermanopadre
I believe you’re misunderstanding my points.

Being taught the Mafuba doesn’t mean he will use it. He never uses it, anyone decently educated on DB can tell you that. Mafuba also only works on evil people iirc, and may kill the user. It’s pretty much not an option.

I wasn’t talking about Deathhax, and I honestly don’t want to discuss it. I’m not in the mood for such a debate today.

Hax can be resisted if you’ve shown to be resistant to them. We can’t just assume people have resistances, it’d make no sense.

Bone Melt isn’t based off of AP, and is seemingly thought-based. It’s used against characters of the relatively same power as them, yes. But Goku doesn’t have a resistance to Bone Manipulation, it’s a thought-based Hax which I believe ignores Speed because all they need to do is be able to react to something, and you haven’t even tackled the Mindhax argumen— Goku doesn’t show Mindhax resistance either, so please don’t start.

Also, for you bringing up UI and MUI, doesn’t he need to..you know... activate that? Why would he use UI or MUI against these guys?

 

[elhermanopadre]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Son_Goku_(Dragon_Ball_Super)
- Also has analytics prediction, Extrasensory Perception, and resistance to that as well with godly ki.
-Goku can teleport, shoukan ido
-Afterimage, and possibly phasing
-UI/MUI which gives him Instinctive Reaction.

Admeus doesn't stand a single change not even close.


Gwenpool
- On Goku's same profile, he has resistance to BFR
-Goku has 4th wall breaking feats (break the manga panel as a little kid) just because she used the 4th wall doesn't mean she instantly wins.

 

[elhermanopadre]

@elhermanopadre
I believe you’re misunderstanding my points.

Being taught the Mafuba doesn’t mean he will use it. He never uses it, anyone decently educated on DB can tell you that. Mafuba also only works on evil people iirc, and may kill the user. It’s pretty much not an option.

I wasn’t talking about Deathhax, and I honestly don’t want to discuss it. I’m not in the mood for such a debate today.

Hax can be resisted if you’ve shown to be resistant to them. We can’t just assume people have resistances, it’d make no sense.

Bone Melt isn’t based off of AP, and is seemingly thought-based. It’s used against characters of the relatively same power as them, yes. But Goku doesn’t have a resistance to Bone Manipulation, it’s a thought-based Hax which I believe ignores Speed because all they need to do is be able to react to something, and you haven’t even tackled the Mindhax argumen— Goku doesn’t show Mindhax resistance either, so please don’t start.

Also, for you bringing up UI and MUI, doesn’t he need to..you know... activate that? Why would he use UI or MUI against these guys?

Yes, it means he will use it. It doesn't matter if he never used it, there was no reason for him to use it at that time. Anyone educated on DB would disprove you wrong.
Wrong it was never stated to only work on evil people (is Kami sama evil? nop) , the "may kill the user" is your headcanon, it never killed trunks when he used it nor roshi in the tournament of power (and used it multiple times and he didn't die), in the manga Goku used it against zamasu but it didn't kill him and yes it's the option to Goku if he has to.

Hax's can be resisted also if you are stronger. It isn't an assumption.

He doesn't have if the character he's fighting was only able to use it against people vastly weaker than Goku. Aren't though's sound speed? Goku is faster than that as a little kid.

At this point it's an appeal to ignorance, you ignored evidences about MUI/UI Goku with mind hax's not working ( and I even gave you actual examples of him resisting mind hax, in early db when he was traveling with chichi and in the forest of Terror) .

Because the battle assumption says, it's the stronger version of that character that is used and MUI is the strongest version of DBS version Goku.

 

[00potato]

The Bine manip probably should be.
He is outright manipulating your body, if the body is practically infinitely stronger than I don’t see how it is on me to prove why it wouldn’t work. It should be obvious. If he hasn’t shown that, then it wouldn’t work, simple as that.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Danny Phantom: With the revisions now pretty much done, it depends on if Goku has the right Non-Physical Interaction needed to actually destroy the ghosts. If not, he could BFR some of them but any ghost with dimensional travel makes this null, and I doubt Goku would lead with that from the start so Dan Phantom could beat him. If he did have the right Non-Physical Interaction the the only character in the verse that could stop him is Clockwork who is the strongest character so it wouldn't count.

Okage: Epros can hax Goku since he is just an illusion so Goku can't interact with him.

Psi-Ops: Wei Lu mind rapes hard and Goku cannot interact with her since she is an illusion.

None of my other verses can beat him or it requires the strongest character in the verse to do do so.

 

[elhermanopadre]

Danny Phantom: With the revisions now pretty much done, it depends on if Goku has the right Non-Physical Interaction needed to actually destroy the ghosts. If not, he could BFR some of them but any ghost with dimensional travel makes this null, and I doubt Goku would lead with that from the start so Dan Phantom could beat him. If he did have the right Non-Physical Interaction the the only character in the verse that could stop him is Clockwork who is the strongest character so it wouldn't count.

Okage: Epros can hax Goku since he is just an illusion so Goku can't interact with him.

Psi-Ops: Wei Lu mind rapes hard and Goku cannot interact with her since she is an illusion.

None of my other verses can beat him or it requires the strongest character in the verse to do do so.

- Goku is listed for having resistance to BFR and has dimensional travel, he has non-physical interaction with infinite zamasu and hit's untangle atk (or flat out destroys ghost in gt if you wanna use gt) https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Son_Goku_(Dragon_Ball_Super), how does Clockwork beat Goku when's only island level?

- Illusions that can kill? Goku could see threw illusions by the time he trained with kami with his third eye and in the Forest of Terror in dbs

-Again, mind hax's will not work when Goku is in mui/ui and he can see through illusions.

"Hesitation, panic, fear itself turn to nothing in the flames..."

"and all he can feel is himself, his opponents, and the fight."

"In time, he becomes so hot and fasts that even such perception grows dim and fades."

 

[TheGatememer]

Myson reduces the opponent's HP to 1. That's all there is to it.

"In time, he becomes so hot and fasts that even such perception grows dim and fades.", "and all he can feel is himself, his opponents, and the fight."

This doesn't prove at all that he has resistance to mindhax, unless you are trying to imply that he is mindless while in UI. (which is obviously not the case). This is just perception manipulation at best.

"Hesitation, panic, fear itself turn to nothing in the flames..."

Probably just flowerly language in the sense that Goku moves instinctively. Even if it wasn't, it has nothing to do with madness hax.

I said "lmao rip" because unequalized, Smash gets stomped. He ignores durability via ignoring durability. Tabuu doesn't care about how durable Goku is, he will still do the same amount of damage. Frankly either one could win as Goku one shots, and Tabuu ignores durability, its just a matter of who attacks first.

it is OOC. Goku literally never uses it apart from that one time he tried to use it against Zamasu. He never uses it on a regular basis. Besides, what are the odds that he is going to use it while in MUI?

Bone Manipulation ignores durability. It's not via heat nor acid, Charles just thinks and his bones turn to liquid. Thinking > going up and throwing a punch/ki blast

Bruh I did one for unequal speed and equal speed. It is normal to equalize speed in versus debates so they aren't completely one sided, and boring. Your argument here is completely invalid. Goku can't bypass anything like Abstract Existence, Time Manipulation, and certain types of immortality without hax. It doesn't work that way. Goku only has like a minute at most before his entire body collapses anyways.

Your scans literally show that Kami's/Shenrons death hax is limited to beings weaker than they are. It is a no limits fallacy to say that DB characters resist hax if they are stronger than their opponent. The literal definition of Hax is abilities that ignore durability. It's not even right, as shown when Frost's poison needle worked against Piccolo and Goku. If they were really immune to hax, it wouldn't have worked on them as Frost is much weaker than they are.

 

[elhermanopadre]

Myson reduces the opponent's HP to 1. That's all there is to it.

"In time, he becomes so hot and fasts that even such perception grows dim and fades.", "and all he can feel is himself, his opponents, and the fight."

This doesn't prove at all that he has resistance to mindhax, unless you are trying to imply that he is mindless while in UI. (which is obviously not the case). This is just perception manipulation at best.

"Hesitation, panic, fear itself turn to nothing in the flames..."

Probably just flowerly language. Even if it wasn't, it has nothing to do with madness hax.

I said "lmao rip" because unequalized, Smash gets stomped. He ignores durability via ignoring durability. Tabuu doesn't care about how durable Goku is, he will still do the same amount of damage. Frankly either one could win as Goku one shots, and Tabuu ignores durability, its just a matter of who attacks first.

it is OOC. Goku literally never uses it apart from that one time he tried to use it against Zamasu. He never uses it on a regular basis.

Bone Manipulation ignores durability. It's not via heat nor acid, Charles just thinks and his bones turn to liquid.

Bruh I did one for unequal speed and equal speed. It is normal to equalize speed in versus debates so they aren't completely one sided, and boring. Your argument here is completely invalid. Goku can't bypass anything like Abstract Existence, Time Manipulation, and certain types of immortality without hax. It doesn't work that way. Goku only has like a minute at most before his entire body collapses anyways.

Your scans literally show that Kami's/Shenrons death hax is limited to beings weaker than they are. It is a no limits fallacy to say that DB characters resist hax if they are stronger than their opponent. It's not even right, as shown when Frost's poison needle worked against Piccolo and Goku. If they were really immune to hax, it wouldn't have worked on them.

Yes it proves it, mind hax's are manipulating your perceptions, I do not have to imply he's mindless, I used what was stated to be for UI/MUI, it isn't at best, it's both mind resistance and perceptions resistance.

It isn't. Again you failed to realize, panic and fear are literally a form of mind hax, panic is induced with madness manipulation and fear is self-explanatory.

Again it doesn't matter if he didn't use, once more it,s because he didn't need to use it. It doesn't matter if it's regular or not. Also, where is it stated that he can't use his abilities while in MUI, that's your headcanon.

I will ask who Charles used it against, city levels, or wall levels? answer the question, that is assuming Goku doesn't blitz and one-shots.

Well then do not have "weakest fodder that can fight Goku" speed shouldn't be equalized that's nerfing Goku just so those fodder might have a chance to win.

Once more, I never talked about abstract things, you failed to read correctly. And yes, Goku has resistance to some form of time hax for example with hit (if you use the statement about heavily suppressed Jiren transcending time and Goku can beat Jiren, then he might scale on that and be above time).

It doesn't last for just a min, it only lasts for mins because of the damage he already sustained. Even then one min is more than enough to blitz and one-shot those fodders.

It isn't any no limit fallacy, because has long had Goku is superior to its opponent, those death hax aren't going to work. And again, you are the one misunderstanding, AS LONG AS THEY ARE STRONGER, this implies if they aren't it likely will work.

Majin Vegeta resisted Babbidi mind hax, Vegito resisted Buuhan matter manipulation, Jiren resisting hit's ultimate time stop, future Trunks negating Dabura's spit petrification ability, Vegeta punching and resisting Toppo's Hakai energy, Vegeta and Nappa couldn't be death hax by kami and Shenron because they were far too powerful, Goku resisting Hakai (which is an existence erasure technique, soul destruction, and body destroy) "IF THEY WEREN'T STRONGER THAN THEIR OPPONENT THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO RESIST THOSE HAXS".

Ironically Goku is listed for resisting the poison of the Water of the gods, again you can find little outliers but that doesn't disprove that hax's in DB have been resisted because the opponent was far stronger. Resisting hax is different than being immune.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

- Goku is listed for having resistance to BFR and has dimensional travel, he has non-physical interaction with infinite zamasu and hit's untangle atk (or flat out destroys ghost in gt if you wanna use gt) https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Son_Goku_(Dragon_Ball_Super), how does Clockwork beat Goku when's only island level?

- Illusions that can kill? Goku could see threw illusions by the time he trained with kami with his third eye and in the Forest of Terror in dbs

-Again, mind hax's will not work when Goku is in mui/ui and he can see through illusions.

"Hesitation, panic, fear itself turn to nothing in the flames..."

"and all he can feel is himself, his opponents, and the fight."

"In time, he becomes so hot and fasts that even such perception grows dim and fades."

You clearly didn't read my post correctly so I'll try and make it easy.

1. I didn't say they would BFR Goku, I said Goku could BFR them.

2. There are different Non-Physical Interactions, this is not GT Goku so him being able to destroy a ghost is irrelevant. However DBS Goku's Non-Physical Interaction seems like what is needed so he could effect them.

3. You clearly didn't read Clockwork's page. Any Clockwork can simply travel to the past and kill Goku before he gets to strong which will cause current Goku to no longer exist. Power isn't everything so Clockwork being only Island level is irrelevant.

4. Wei Lu's illusions warp reality and effect the Mind and Soul, and has been able to effect other psi elite who have resistances far beyond Goku's resistance so she mind rapes him easily.

 

[Daddybrawl]

Watch, I’m a mind reader. For point #3, he’ll say something alongside the lines of ‘But Jiren can transcend Time, and Goku matches him. So Goku transcends time’

 

[elhermanopadre]

You clearly didn't read my post correctly so I'll try and make it easy.

1. I didn't say they would BFR Goku, I said Goku could BFR them.

2. There are different Non-Physical Interactions, this is not GT Goku so him being able to destroy a ghost is irrelevant. However DBS Goku's Non-Physical Interaction seems like what is needed so he could effect them.

3. You clearly didn't read Clockwork's page. Any Clockwork can simply travel to the past and kill Goku before he gets to strong which will cause current Goku to no longer exist. Power isn't everything so Clockwork being only Island level is irrelevant.

4. Wei Lu's illusions warp reality and effect the Mind and Soul, and has been able to effect other psi elite who have resistances far beyond Goku's resistance so she mind rapes him easily.

If you say so

1) Ok, I misread that.

2) Again, I said if you consider Gt, you make the same mistake as me "NOT READING CORRECTLY". I never said this is gt Goku, I said if you consider or wanna use gt Goku.

3) And you clearly do not know DB, you cannot time travel to try to kill characters in the present by attacking their past of future self (look at the events and statement in the future trunks saga in dbz /kai and Goku black saga in DBS, future cell killing future trunks didn't kill past, present, and other future trunks. It will only create new timelines with the present or past self not being affected. Power is everything, and yes him being island level is relevant, Goku could gaze at him and kill him with a Kiai atk or with a wave of his hand with absolutely no difficulty.

4) Goku has mind resistance, illusions resistance, and soul resistance by being able to tank hakai which destroys both the soul (and or ghosts) and the body of the target (if you CONSIDER DBS manga Goku, he can use that same Hakai) and he has resistance to all of that with UI/MUI it will far better. So blitz and one-shots wall level Wei Lu.

 

[elhermanopadre]

Watch, I’m a mind reader. For point #3, he’ll say something alongside the lines of ‘But Jiren can transcend Time, and Goku matches him. So Goku transcends time’

I won't it's not even needed, that is not how time travel works in DB. It will not affect the others in the future, present, or past timelines. Addressing what you say, that could also work.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

If you say so

1) Ok, I misread that.

2) Again, I said if you consider Gt, you make the same mistake as me "NOT READING CORRECTLY". I never said this is gt Goku, I said if you consider or wanna use gt Goku.

3) And you clearly do not know DB, you cannot time travel to try to kill characters in the present by attacking their past of future self (look at the events and statement in the future trunks saga in dbz /kai and Goku black saga in DBS, future cell killing future trunks didn't kill past, present, and other future trunks. It will only create new timelines with the present or past self not being affected. Power is everything, and yes him being island level is relevant, Goku could gaze at him and kill him with a Kiai atk or with a wave of his hand with absolutely no difficulty.

4) Goku has mind resistance, illusions resistance, and soul resistance by being able to tank hakai which destroys both the soul and the body of the target and he has resistance to all of that with UI/MUI but better. So blitz and one-shots Wei Lu.

3. I forgot that was a thing but that doesn't change anything. Clockwork still stomps since the other Clockwork's can hax stomp him without actually being their. They can even grab things from different points in time like the Reality Gauntlet or get Ghost Writer to hax him with his Keyboard. Goku can kill the Clockwork in front of him all he wants to, that won't save him from getting hax beaten by the others.

4. If you think Goku's resistance can save him from being mind haxed by Psi Ops characters then you need to check their pages. Also, Wei Lu is an illusion!, Goku can't effect here. So he can't one shot.

 

[elhermanopadre]

3. I forgot that was a thing but that doesn't change anything. Clockwork still stomps since the other Clockwork's can hax stomp him without actually being their. They can even grab things from different points in time like the Reality Gauntlet or get Ghost Writer to hax him with his Keyboard. Goku can kill the Clockwork in front of him all he wants to, that won't save him from getting hax beaten by the others.

4. You're crazy if you think Goku's resistance can save him from being mind haxed by Psi Ops characters. Also, Wei Lu is an illusion!, Goku can't effect here. So he can't one shot.

3) It changes the fact that you were wrong and the clockwork ability will not work. Nop, Goku will shit stomp island level Clockworks just by gazing at them. What hax? what beaten by the others ? are they island level as well?

4) Yes it will, he has evidence and resistance to it. Goku can atk intangible beings and stop intangible atks. Assuming this wall level character can react to goku.

 

[TheGatememer]

Yes it proves it, mind hax's are manipulating your perceptions, I do not have to imply he's mindless, I used what was stated to be for UI/MUI, it isn't at best, it's both mind resistance and perceptions resistance.

Perception Manipulation =/= Mind Manipulation. That's the equivalent of saying that a person that can slow down their senses automatically resists mind control. Or someone that can make someone see visions can mind control their victim.

It isn't. Again you failed to realize, panic and fear are literally a form of mind hax, panic is induced with madness manipulation and fear is self-explanatory.

People who resist fear/madness manipulation doesn't automatically mean that they can't feel fear normally. This works vice versa too. Just because you don't naturally feel fear/you can't normally go mad, someone can force you to be afraid or go mad. That's literally what Fear/Madness hax is.

Again it doesn't matter if he didn't use, once more it,s because he didn't need to use it. It doesn't matter if it's regular or not. Also, where is it stated that he can't use his abilities while in MUI, that's your headcanon.

I literally never said that he can't use his abilities. I just said that the likely hood of him using the Mafuba is next to none. The odds are even lower if he's in MUI, as he's probably just gonna stick with attacking, since his body is moving on its own.

I will ask who Charles used it against, city levels, or wall levels? answer the question, that is assuming Goku doesn't blitz and one-shots.
It. Literally. Does. Not. Matter. Hax. Ignores. Durability. Goku isn't higher dimensional physically, 3D hax will work just fine on him.

Well then do not have "weakest fodder that can fight Goku" speed shouldn't be equalized that's nerfing Goku just so those fodder might have a chance to win.

This is one of the first things we do on this wiki if the speed gap is too wide so there can be more interesting discussions. Once again, I even did a version where speed was unequal. This is the last time I address this point.

Once more, I never talked about abstract things, you failed to read correctly. And yes, Goku has resistance to some form of time hax for example with hit (if you use the statement about heavily suppressed Jiren transcending time and Goku can beat Jiren, then he might scale on that and be above time).

Yea Goku has a resistance to time stop.

It doesn't last for just a min, it only lasts for mins because of the damage he already sustained. Even then one min is more than enough to blitz and one-shot those fodders.

That's pure headcanon. Even if speed isn't equalized, he cannot bypass Immortality or Abstract Existence. Goku's not just gonna pull out the mafuba as his body is moving independently from his mind.

It isn't any no limit fallacy, because has long had Goku is superior to its opponent, those death hax aren't going to work. And again, you are the one misunderstanding, AS LONG AS THEY ARE STRONGER, this implies if they aren't it likely will work.

It is a NLF. That's the equivalent of saying Goku is physically strong enough to not get sick, since viruses are only 10-C

Majin Vegeta resisted Babbidi mind hax, Vegito resisted Buuhan matter manipulation, Jiren resisting hit's ultimate time stop, future Trunks negating Dabura's spit petrification ability, Vegeta punching and resisting Toppo's Hakai energy, Vegeta and Nappa couldn't be death hax by kami and Shenron because they were far too powerful, Goku resisting Hakai (which is an existence erasure technique, soul destruction, and body destroy) "IF THEY WEREN'T STRONGER THAN THEIR OPPONENT THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO RESIST THOSE HAXS".

Majin Vegeta fell under Babbidi's control/influence, hence his name. Vegito resisted it because of his ki barrier. Yes, Jiren resisted time stop. Trunks negated it via his abilities. His sword was petrified when Dabura spit on it. Vegeta resists HIS hakai energy. Once again, the scan literally shows his death hax being limited to those weaker than he is. If anything, these examples show the limitations of Hax in DB.

Ironically Goku is listed for resisting the poison of the Water of the gods, again you can find little outliers but that doesn't disprove that hax's in DB have been resisted because the opponent was far stronger. Resisting hax is different than being immune.

k?
I'm not invested enough in this debate to continue arguing. I've seen the whole "DB characters resist hax cuz their stronger" argument far too many times in one lifetime.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

3) It changes the fact that you were wrong and the clockwork ability will not work. Nop, Goku will shit stomp island level Clockworks just by gazing at them. What hax? what beaten by the others ? are they island level as well?

4) Yes it will, he has evidence and resistance to it. Goku can atk intangible beings and stop intangible atks. Assuming this wall level character can react to goku.

When I said it changes nothing, I meant that it won't change the outcome of their fight. Goku can stomp the Clockwork in front of him all he wants to but there isn't just one Clockwork, there are multiple versions of Clockwork throughout time that are beyond Goku's reach. Each of them could easily summon a ghost like Desiree and simply wish to turn Goku into an ant or negate his powers. Also their energy can effect his body on a molecular level and they have Multi-Universeal range so they can use there energy on Goku without even getting close. So I say again, them being only Island level is irrelevant.

No his resistances are trash compared to Psi-Ops characters feats as far as I know. There are multiple types of Non-Physical Interaction, so has Goku shown the ability to harm illusions? If so that should be on his page.

 

[elhermanopadre]

Yes it proves it, mind hax's are manipulating your perceptions, I do not have to imply he's mindless, I used what was stated to be for UI/MUI, it isn't at best, it's both mind resistance and perceptions resistance.

Perception Manipulation =/= Mind Manipulation. That's the equivalent of saying that a person that can slow down their senses automatically resists mind control. Or someone that can make someone see visions can mind control their victim.

It isn't. Again you failed to realize, panic and fear are literally a form of mind hax, panic is induced with madness manipulation and fear is self-explanatory.

People who resist fear/madness manipulation doesn't automatically mean that they can't feel fear normally. This works vice versa too. Just because you don't naturally feel fear/you can't normally go mad, someone can force you to be afraid or go mad. That's literally what Fear/Madness hax is.

Again it doesn't matter if he didn't use, once more it,s because he didn't need to use it. It doesn't matter if it's regular or not. Also, where is it stated that he can't use his abilities while in MUI, that's your headcanon.

I literally never said that he can't use his abilities. I just said that the likely hood of him using the Mafuba is next to none. The odds are even lower if he's in MUI, as he's probably just gonna stick with attacking, since his body is moving on its own.

I will ask who Charles used it against, city levels, or wall levels? answer the question, that is assuming Goku doesn't blitz and one-shots.
It. Literally. Does. Not. Matter. Hax. Ignores. Durability. Goku isn't higher dimensional physically, 3D hax will work just fine on him.

Well then do not have "weakest fodder that can fight Goku" speed shouldn't be equalized that's nerfing Goku just so those fodder might have a chance to win.

This is one of the first things we do on this wiki if the speed gap is too wide so there can be more interesting discussions. Once again, I even did a version where speed was unequal. This is the last time I address this point.

Once more, I never talked about abstract things, you failed to read correctly. And yes, Goku has resistance to some form of time hax for example with hit (if you use the statement about heavily suppressed Jiren transcending time and Goku can beat Jiren, then he might scale on that and be above time).

Yea Goku has a resistance to time stop.

It doesn't last for just a min, it only lasts for mins because of the damage he already sustained. Even then one min is more than enough to blitz and one-shot those fodders.

That's pure headcanon. Even if speed isn't equalized, he cannot bypass Immortality or Abstract Existence. Goku's not just gonna pull out the mafuba as his body is moving independently from his mind.

It isn't any no limit fallacy, because has long had Goku is superior to its opponent, those death hax aren't going to work. And again, you are the one misunderstanding, AS LONG AS THEY ARE STRONGER, this implies if they aren't it likely will work.

It is a NLF. That's the equivalent of saying Goku is physically strong enough to not get sick.

Majin Vegeta resisted Babbidi mind hax, Vegito resisted Buuhan matter manipulation, Jiren resisting hit's ultimate time stop, future Trunks negating Dabura's spit petrification ability, Vegeta punching and resisting Toppo's Hakai energy, Vegeta and Nappa couldn't be death hax by kami and Shenron because they were far too powerful, Goku resisting Hakai (which is an existence erasure technique, soul destruction, and body destroy) "IF THEY WEREN'T STRONGER THAN THEIR OPPONENT THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO RESIST THOSE HAXS".

Majin Vegeta fell under Babbidi's control/influence, hence his name. Vegito resisted it because of his ki barrier. Yes, Jiren resisted time stop. Trunks negated it via his abilities. His sword was petrified when Dabura spit on it. Vegeta resists HIS hakai energy. Once again, the scan literally shows his death hax being limited to those weaker than he is. If anything, these examples show the limitations of Hax in DB.

Ironically Goku is listed for resisting the poison of the Water of the gods, again you can find little outliers but that doesn't disprove that hax's in DB have been resisted because the opponent was far stronger. Resisting hax is different than being immune.

Perception Manipulation =/= Mind Manipulation. That's the equivalent of saying that a person that can slow down their senses automatically resists mind control. Or someone that can make someone see visions can mind control their victim.

Nop once more, it isn't just minded hax or perception hax. Even then he would scale to majin vegita who resisted mind control.

People who resist fear/madness manipulation doesn't automatically mean that they can't feel fear normally. This works vice versa too. Just because you don't naturally feel fear/you can't normally go mad, someone can force you to be afraid or go mad. That's literally what Fear/Madness hax is.

In UI/MUI it's litteraly stated he can only feel himself , the fight and his opponent. Regardless , he has resistance to fear and madness manipulation.

literally never said that he can't use his abilities. I just said that the likely hood of him using the Mafuba is next to none. The odds are even lower if he's in MUI, as he's probably just gonna stick with attacking, since his body is moving on its own.


You implied that he couldn't use mafuba in MUI. Again your headcanon "HE'S PROBABLY JUST GONNA STICK ATK" , just because it moves on is own doesn't mean he cannot choose an action to make or use ki atks.

It. Literally. Does. Not. Matter. Hax. Ignores. Durability. Goku isn't higher dimensional physically, 3D hax will work just fine on him

Yes it does , answer the question , and is there proof it ignore durability? it doesn't matter if he isn't higher dimensional physically , if that bone stuff only worked on city level beings compair to universal durability goku , this will not work period.


This is one of the first things we do on this wiki if the speed gap is too wide so there can be more interesting discussions. Once again, I even did a version where speed was unequal. This is the last time I address this point.

Ok , it's fine

That's pure headcanon. Even if speed isn't equalized, he cannot bypass Immortality or Abstract Existence. Goku's not just gonna pull out the mafuba as his body is moving independently from his mind.

It isn't , UI/MUI was achieve by him surpassing is limits , from using forms that already drains is stamina. Once more , I never said bypass immortality nor abstract existence. Yes, he will do it , there is nothing stopping him from doing it, just because is body can move alone doesn't mean he cant perform any other actions than moving that your false assumptions.

"It is a NLF. That's the equivalent of saying Goku is physically strong enough to not get sick."

It isn't you make no sense , I didn't say he will resist hax from someone who is outerversal , that your assumptions. I just said he can resist hax by being stronger than the opponent. And your example is wrong.

"This is when someone states that because something has not demonstrated any limits (or only certain limits) then it has none (or only the ones demonstrated)."

Majin Vegeta fell under Babbidi's control/influence, hence his name. Vegito resisted it because of his ki barrier. Yes, Jiren resisted time stop. Trunks negated it via his abilities. His sword was petrified when Dabura spit on it. Vegeta resists HIS hakai energy. Once again, the scan literally shows his death hax being limited to those weaker than he is. If anything, these examples show the limitations of Hax in DB.

Vegita resisted mind control from babbidi and was never under babbidi control, and is listed in is profile to have resisted it ,idk what nonsense are you talking about. Vegito resisted being matter manipulated by buuhan , there was no ki barrier. Nop he negated with is hands, DOESN'T MATTER IF THE SWORD WAS PETRIFIED. Vegeta punched though hakai , toppo can surround himself with hakai energy , vegita can atk toppo with is punches even when hakai destroy everything is made contact with it. Nop hax are a form of stat ignorance and can be resisted.

 

[elhermanopadre]

When I said it changes nothing, I meant that it won't change the outcome of their fight. Goku can stomp the Clockwork in front of him all he wants to but there isn't just one Clockwork, there are multiple versions of Clockwork throughout time that are beyond Goku's reach. Each of them could easily summon a ghost like Desiree and simply wish to turn Goku into an ant or negate his powers. Also their energy can effect thr body on a biological level and they have Multi-Universeal range so they can use there energy on Goku without even getting close. So I say again, them being only Island level is irrelevant.

No his resistances are trash compared to Psi-Ops characters feats as far as I know. There are multiple types of Non-Physical Interaction, so has Goku shown the ability to harm illusions? If so that should be on his page.

It changes the fact that you were wrong and will not work. They being island level is relevant. The wish thing on who it worked? assuming Goku doesn't resist or blitz and one-shots that Desiree. And Goku as shown using barriers to stop lavender's poison ATKs , can nullify energy, react to said energy if it's somehow a thread. Also can they sense him to lunch those atks or see him move? because he has resistance to extrasensory perception with godly ki.

Is resistance are more than enough plus MUI/UI is going to be better. He stops intangible beings, it higher dimensional being like zamasu , or in gt can arm ghosts. Goku will still be able to atk her and one shots.

 

[Stillwinston]

Wha? I mean Clockworks from the past or future just effect Goku without even being there no? I mean if UI lets Goku say no to Precog the fact that we have loads of Clockworks means......yeah

Goku: *Fires Ki blast*

Clockwork: "Ow." *Poofs*

Clockwork 2: "Okay you got that one nice, however now I'm going to end your sorry ass as I already predicted this would occur and have set things up so that your defeated before this thread was even considered."

What other verses have I got?

Bloodborne: Madness stuff aside Goku probably just incons with the protag who just continues to lol res and I really doubt mafuba is going to cut it tbh

Dark Souls: Same as BB

Soul Calibur: Depends on how Soul Edge interacts with Goku and if he can survive the effects of Astral Chaos or not.

Guilty Gear: Axl might have a shot, worst case Sol just passively rewrites him via Info Manip. Ky might be able to do something too prolly

 

[TheNeverEnding2001]

BB-8 Solo's the verse just by beeping....

 

[Nicetoderp]

Kamen Rider Ex-Aid Hyper Muteki outlast.

Genm God infected biohax him to death.

 

[Tripleaccel555]

Kamen Rider Ex-Aid Hyper Muteki outlast.

Genm God infected biohax him to death.

No.

Lack of speed and DC.

 

[Nicetoderp]

And again, Muteki outlast because Low 2-C invul.

Genm have so many immortalities that Goku literally can’t kill him. And he just going to adjust his speed/law hax/x whatever after he die.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I 2ill assume a 9-C with passive 1-A powernull is not considered the weakest regardless of technicalities.

In Ergenverse, of the one novel I know well, most characters have passive auras and can possess him. Any single wraith would be able to paralyze him by existing and possess him or eat his soul. They have no profile, but go from 9-B to 7-B. Or the Dark Concocters just poison him to death.

In The Gamer, some have the supernatural luck to survive him, but few would be able to kill him. Still, The President can law hax while relying on his Mid-Godly. The weakest of The President's bodies is 8-C.

Naruto, no-one if he goes in seriously. If in-character, Goku gets genjutsu gg'd.

Undertale, Frisk can refuse and tank his attacks, then simply out lasting Goku.

In SCP, many lower narrative and lower dimensional characters can hax higher dimensional, so he gets assimilated by a book and is killed there or something.

 

[Tripleaccel555]

And again, Muteki outlast because Low 2-C invul.

Genm have so many immortalities that Goku literally can’t kill him. And he just going to adjust his speed/law hax/x whatever after he die.

Muteki still lack of speed to hit him and Goku can damage him because he is low 2C.

Dragon Ball universe is biggest than our world. Goku low 2C is higher than Muteki and Genm and both of their durability is shit.

Genm immortal is shit considering Goku can hit him for 99 times. His immortal not like Berserker from Fate / Stay Night.

I see there some wank regarding of Genn because his cosmic chronicle. When he can transform real world into Game world with universe size ?

 

[Nicetoderp]

And again, Muteki still outlast. Low 2-C invul should easily be much superior to pure AP. And with the incoming CRT it will be bump to at least 2-C

And Genm can easily adjust his speed to however and blitz Goku when he is dying. And Goku really have no answer to Genm Low-Godly.

And that is Cosmic Chronicle where Genm have free control over everything in the universe down to the physic, laws, space-time,reality, concept etc.etc.

 

[Daddybrawl]

In SCP, many lower narrative and lower dimensional characters can hax higher dimensional, so he gets assimilated by a book and is killed there or something.

I actually thought most of those Lower-Narrative characters are very strong, deceptively even. The best one I know of is 3143, who does that weird ‘Turn you into Fiction’ thing via Higher-Dimensional Manip. There’s probably a weaker character than them somehow, but there’re so many weak and strong characters in SCP Foundation that I won’t hold anything against you.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Hm, definitions of strong do vary. Making your enemy weaker doesn't really mean you are "strong", just that you have good hax, but I see why they'd be described as strongest.