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MM Link (3-A) vs Son Goku (3-A)

PaChi2 said:
My point was that Link would have to get close to him to even do that, he'd immedieatly get warned by Tatl that this man would one-shot him if he attacks and immedieatly retreat to hax methods.
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1) Link has no fairy. Its outside help.

2) The fairy would totally give away his location.

3) if Goku is there knowing that he has to fight someone and the only thing there is to sense is the fairy... "Omae wa mou shindeiru".

4) Link would try to shield his partner and die.

1. "Minus info analysis".

2. Erm, entire Pirate Fortress would like to speak with you.

3. He's not going to sense the fairy for the same exact reason pirate fortress doesn't notice tatl.

4. When has he ever needed to shield his partner?
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
TriforcePower1 said:
If we consider Link being unable to use the Ocarina in Fierce Deity form, he still has sleep Manipulation.

Then again, the probability of Link using it in combat is nigh 0, so yeah.
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@Giverofpeace ^
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1. Why do we consider him unable to use it in fierce deity form?

2. I'm getting somewhat irritated with no one reading my stuff fully, "eventually just uses sleep inducement."
 
@GOTP

2) Game mechanics.

3) Game mechanics

4) The Hero of Time wouldnt shield someone who is about to receive a horribly strong attack?

Tatl isnt affected by the masks. And she can interact with the world. Her not being noticeable is just game mechanics to prevent you from losing.

Also, moving on. No moar offtopic.
 
Who wins mainly depends on whether after Goku is hit by Link would he proceed to spam ki blasts or would he commit self-BFR and just leave. Methinks the former but I'm not quite sure.
 
RotofBots said:
would he commit self-BFR and just leave. Methinks the former but I'm not quite sure.
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By SBA, this is not possible.

State of mind: In character, but willing to kill. The characters will employ their usual battle strategies, including flaws such as being casual, however, must be willing to kill the opponent even if they usually won't.Furthermore characters will not give up of their own accord. That means a character that is uninterested or sees no chance of winning won't simply leave and characters wouldn't simply become friends with each other.
 
PaChi2 said:
@GOTP
2) Game mechanics.

3) Game mechanics

4) The Hero of Time wouldnt shield someone who is about to receive a horribly strong attack?

Tatl isnt affected by the masks. And she can interact with the world. Her not being noticeable is just game mechanics to prevent you from losing.

Also, moving on. No moar offtopic.
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2. Tatl's openly apart of a cutscene with yu and is always with you, that's not remotely game emchanics.

4. Why would Goku attack someone that's nt his opponent?

That's not a game mechanic. I agree with no longer derailing tho.
 
He wouldn't immediately kill a weaker opponent but if OP puts him in a battle where he's willing to kill, he'd test his opponent with the assumption that they're hiding their strength. Which would still KO both Link and Yu. He doesn't know who his opponent is yet so the stray fairy is fair game to him.
 
Speaking of Tatl - don't fairies have Extrasensory Perception and Info Analysis, and wasn't Tatl also unaware of the soldier wearing the Stone Mask?

Wouldn't that mean that Goku's Ki sensing won't pick up on Link's Perception Manipulation?
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
SBA says that both characters know that they are fighting someone.

Preparation time: None. That means there is no time between the character knowing there is going to be some battle and the point they may start killing each other. They are, in a single instant, transported to the battlefield from their everyday activities, equipped with their equipment, transformed to the character version they battle in and given the correct state of mind. In the same instant the battle starts and they may attack each other. They are assumed to not be surprised or disorientated from the sudden start.

Goku knows that he is fighting someone. He's not going to let his guard down, especially when he isn't able to sense the opponent.
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I said this to what you said earlier Warren.
 
If Goku can't sense his opponent, nor can see an opponent - wouldn't the most logical solution be that his opponent bailed on the fight and isn't there in the first place?
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
before I respond to that in full, what would you say Goku does if he doesn't?
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If Goku doesn't know that his opponent can't leave?

Gets sad and disapointed, complains to thin air about not getting the fight he was promised (this is the part where Goku lets his guard down) and then probably ITs to Vegeta for a good fight or something like that.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
but he's not allowed to leave
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1. He'd still lower his guard by complaining about his opponent leaving as I said - that being the opportune time for Link to attack - and thus Goku would be dead and wouldn't get to leave. So that doesn't even matter.

2. And I think he could actually - if he doesn't even think a fight exists due to Link's perception than that isn't really Goku "giving up on their own accord", there a catylast for why Goku is leaving.

"Furthermore characters will not give up of their own accord. That means a character that is uninterested or sees no chance of winning won't simply leave and characters wouldn't simply become friends with each other."

Link making Goku think that Link isn't there is Link doing something to make Goku go away. That's not Goku just giving up because he's a pacifist or his opponent is too strong or whatever (none of these are true, but I digress) - Goku literally has nothing to do.

Like you wouldn't say it is against the rules for if a Mind Manipulator to use mind hax to make his opponent go away and leave the battlefield - would you? The mind hax is what caused the opponent to leave.

The same can be said for Link - just trade in mind hax for perception manipulation.


However, I don't think it will come to that - the Fierce Deity is a vengeful god that is possibly darker than Majora - I don't think Link will just stand there.

I do, however, think Link would attack when Goku lowers his guard. It's still Link in control after all - and Link's thing is finding weakness in his opponents.
 
1. Why would he think his opponent left if he never saw his opponent? Wouldn't have learned from ToP that just because he can't see someone doesn't mean they aren't there? (in reference to the bug)

2. Except Link isn't perception manipulating Goku into leaving.

I'm sorry but having Goku get teleported to a place that he knows he is about to fight someone in, seeing that no one is there and immediately thinking that the person ran away nigh instantaneously and far enough that he can't sense them the moment they got there and then lowering his guard because of that makes no sense to me.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
1. Why would he think his opponent left if he never saw his opponent? Wouldn't have learned from ToP that just because he can't see someone doesn't mean they aren't there? (in reference to the bug)
2. Except Link isn't perception manipulating Goku into leaving.

I'm sorry but having Goku get teleported to a place that he knows he is about to fight someone in, seeing that no one is there and immediately thinking that the person ran away nigh instantaneously and far enough that he can't sense them the moment they got there and then lowering his guard because of that makes no sense to me.
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1. Because he wouldn't be able to see, smell, hear, or Ki sense his opponent anywhere. It's not just his vision.

2. Except it is. Link's perception manipulation is what causes Goku to leave because he thinks his opponent ran away because he can't perceive Link.

And even if that isn't considered viable - it doesn't really matter.


And dude, the process of Goku thinking his opponent ran away doesn't have to be instantaneous.

It can easily be a conclusion that Goku reaches after he realizes that no one is there, and that he can't sense anything either. After waiting a few minutes, what other conclusions would one logically come to other than the opponent ran away?
 
1. But he knows that the opponent is there.

2. i feel like this is semantics

"And dude, the process of Goku thinking his opponent ran away doesn't have to be instantaneous."

I'm not talking about the process of him thinking it but of him thinking when the opponent ran away. Unless he's assuming that the guy was waiting for him there and then ran away before he got there, then he would be thinking that the guy ran away the instant he did get there.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
1. But he knows that the opponent is there.
2. i feel like this is semantics

"And dude, the process of Goku thinking his opponent ran away doesn't have to be instantaneous."

I'm not talking about the process of him thinking it but of him thinking when the opponent ran away. Unless he's assuming that the guy was waiting for him there and then ran away before he got there, then he would be thinking that the guy ran away the instant he did get there.
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The only thing that Goku knows is that he was sent to his current location to fight an opponent and was given the mindset to act it out - he doesn't know that his opponent can't run away, and after minutes pass in which Goku can't find any physical trace of his opponent or sense him, nor is said opponent attacking him, why wouldn't he assume that his opponent just instantly left.

If you planned to meet up with someone at a certain location at a certain time, and you show up when the other person doesn't, after waiting a while - wouldn't you think the person just isn't coming?

It's the same thing here.

And since Link's entire stick is to overcome the superior strength of his enemy with his courage, arsenal, and intelligence - he'll most likely wait for an opening in Goku's defenses.

And if Goku thinks his opponent ran away, then I don't see why he would be on-guard. When Goku being off-guard is Goku's big weakness according to his current martial arts teacher and the most intellgent being in the universe.

When Goku eventually drops his guard, Link will know and attack accordingly - killing a suppressed Goku in a single blow that Goku can't just walk off.
 
According to SBA, Goku at least knows he is fighting someone. So he isn't dropping his guard down even if he can't sense his energy. If Goku gets too fed up with this, he will likely use an AoE blast and go home to eat.
 
He used it against Hit when he figured his 1v1 attacks aren't working. He also used something like that to restrict that little bug's mobility in the ToP.

IIRC Goku has never faced any opponent he can't see or sense. But it doesn't take a fighting genius to figure out that an AoE attack is the best solution in such a situation. Oh wait, Goku is a fighting genius.
 
No, Goku used to be a fighting genius, back when he practiced martial arts instead of just training to get stronger.
 
There has been many situations where Goku had trouble catching/finding an enemy and he didn't immedieatly go to "AoE attack". That's not even remotely in-character for him to do as he'd be afraid of destroying the earth in the process.
 
Examples of such trouble where Goku can't see his opponents?

>Goku

>afraid of destroying the Earth

K I C O N T R O L
 
Ki control extends to AoE when? Goku literally has stated before he needs to control himself so he won't destroy the planet and the attacks aren't concentrated to a huge AoE blast, but more so a centered straight energy blast.
 
Akreious said:
If he can't sense or see his opponent then he would probably think they have an ability similar to Hit or can hide their presence of which Goku has demonstrated the willingness to go "Stop. Goku Time".
Stop. Goku Time.
Click to expand...
Also I was told here he fought enemies like that before and just distrubted basic close-ranged explosive waves.
 
GiverOfThePeace said:
Ki control extends to AoE when? Goku literally has stated before he needs to control himself so he won't destroy the planet and the attacks aren't concentrated to a huge AoE blast, but more so a centered straight energy blast.
Click to expand...
And? He controls it to a greater extent to cause less collateral damage. Doesn't mean he can just reduce the control and let go.

What you're saying is that a guy with universal range can limit AoE of his attacks to form mere craters but can't limit it less to destroy cities.
 
The whole "Goku dropping his guard" is being overstated tbh. In the instances that we see Goku dropping his guard, it was when he thought the fight was already over. In this instance, there would have been no fight to begin with. And once Goku realizes he can't see or sense his opponent, it would be a far more logical assertion that Goku would heighten his guard trying to find his opponent than lower his guard for... "reasnos".

Goku isn't the sharpest tool in the shed but he isn't an idiot either.
 
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