MM Link (3-A) vs Son Goku (3-A)

[Warren_Valion]

@Ikeblade21

Standard Battle Assumptions (SBA) has the fight take place in Central Park, New York if the location isn't specified in the OP.

1. Weren't the bug guys after Goku went UI for the first time? At that point Goku's SSB is Low 2-C and not 3-A - so Goku at that point in time wouldn't have faced the bug aliens in the ToP anyway.


2. That's not how that works. Not doing something in-character isn't "limiting" Goku from using all of his abilities - that's perpostruous. Link is also in-character in this fight - is he being "limited"?

And Link is in his Fierce Deity form at the start of his fight because that's the only point in where Link is 3-A.


3. Goku wouldn't register the pain because the mask wouldn't allow him to register Link's attacks for one.

Also, when Goku has his guard up the AP difference between them is so great that Goku wouldn't be in any pain from Link's attacks.

 

[RotofBots]

I'll respond in a couple of hours.

but Supawa, there's no need for the animosity. Just a debate chill.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Goku FRA
also, lmao at this "Fierce Deity has the power of all other masks" as that is wank at best. has anyone actually played MM cuz he clearly doesn't. Enemies still attack you even with the fierce deity mask on.

yall men are legit taking the freaking "Gossip Stone" as Gospel but it isn't. It's in the name for gods sake. "Gossip"

All I have to say is feats > statements and that statement has a huge anti-feat.

@warren

no need for the wall to prove a point. debunked the wall in a few sentences. Link ain't invisible. that's for sure.

Those characters get a Resistance to Perception Manipulation - like the Gerudo Captains do, that isn't proof that the Fierce Deity doesn't have the property of every Mask like it is stated in-game by the Gossip Stones (which are reliable sources of information, them having the word "gossip" in their name doesn't invalidate anything) and from guides as well.

As for the question if I played the game - yes I have. 100% it at least a dozen times, so I know what the **** I am talking about.


And RotofBots isn't even saying that the Fierce Deity Mask doesn't have the Stone Mask's power.

He just doesn't believe that it won't make pain unregistrable to the one being attacked - I gave an example as to why that thought process is wrong.

 

[Supawa]

Link the guides with the statements then.

and I'm not even just talking about the stone mask, I'm talking about all the powers that the mask supposedly has are never even demonstrated.

"merits of all masks" is vague as hell anyway.

 

[Supawa]

@bots

do you not realizes i'm helping you debunk this wank?

 

[Ikeblade21]

@Warren

1. The little bug guy from U4 was after the 1st time he went Ultra Instinct.

2. Okay, that clarifies it.

3. He also wouldn't be able to visually see the effects from Link's attacks either?

"Once he notices his sword clanck off of Goku's skin, Link will then know Goku is too strong to fight directly. Link will then focus on coming up with a strategy to bypass Goku's defenses - waiting until Goku supress his energy by dropping his guard is that moment of weakness."

The last time I checked Link cannot sense ki and therefore could not tell the difference. There is no visual difference between Goku (dropped guard) and Goku (ready to fight). What would you propose Link does once he realises he cannot harm Goku, besides waiting? Like I said, weighing the options, Goku would think: "This person must be able to mask their ki as well". What has been the tried and tested way to counter the anyone who hides their ki? Blow up the area to violently smoke them out.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Link the guides with the statements then.
and I'm not even just talking about the stone mask, I'm talking about all the powers that the mask supposedly has are never even demonstrated.

"merits of all masks" is vague as hell anyway.

I can't fully responed for a while now - I got to pick up my mother from work.

But anyway, the idea that the Fierce Deity's mask is the collection of all masks in one is one that is accepted here on the wiki - you can see that on Link's profile where it says that the Fierce Deity's lifting strength is = to the one given to like with the Giant's Mask.

If you don't believe that is accurate, then you need to make a CRT trying to have that removed from the profiles.


"Merits of all masks" is vauge in the slighest, the Fierce Deity Mask is bestowed with all the benefits that come from every other mask.


Anyway, goodbye.

 

[PaChi2]

"Logic would dictate that if you can't see something, hear it, smell it, feel it, sense it, or taste it - then it doesn't exist."

If Goku knows that he is fighting someone and cant see, hear, smell or anything, logic dictates that the guy he is fighting is hiding.

 

[Supawa]

also "link sword would bounce off due to the AP advantage"

you totally don't understand how force works. AP is energy and that measures the amount of capacity one can do work with. Having higher AP won't stop someone from being pushed as Force =/= energy. all that means is that Goku won't take damage from the push.

 

[Supawa]

"Logic would dictate that if you can't see something, hear it, smell it, feel it, sense it, or taste it - then it doesn't exist."

If Goku knows that he is fighting someone and cant see, hear, smell or anything, logic dictates that the guy he is fighting is hiding.

^^^^^^^^

finally someone makes sense in here.

 

[Supawa]

even if you say fdm does have invisibility, link is a physical fighter and the ki spam from Goku would definitely hit him in close range.

goku has fought men who can mask their presence. saying goku would go "welp, guess no fight then" instead of y'know, trying to lure them out is incredibly fallacious

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Having the merits of the Mask of Truth gives Link mind reading though, so that's a thing.

 

[ProudLearner]

Having the merits of the Mask of Truth gives Link mind reading though, so that's a thing.

Would that mask have limit to where the enemy is far away?

 

[ProudLearner]

Goku on Namek while fighting Friza, he telepathically interupted a conversation of King Kai and the Namekian Elder.

 

[Akreious]

I don't get it, so we're giving Link the ability to hide himself from an ability that he's never been shown or could show to hide against? Seriously?

There are different types of Extrasensory Perception. Stop trying to give Link a blanket "lol I can't be sensed at all" because it's blatantly not what's going on. Being perceived as nothing more notable as a Rock does not somehow negate the ability to sense the life force of beings.

Also seriously? Are people really trying to say that Goku wouldn't know Link hit him? Not only is that horribly OOC for Goku to not even attempt to strike back in the general direction, the whole "Well enemies don't fight back against Link when he uses the mask" is so incredibly gameplay Mechanic that it hurts me to even have to type this. The mask does not at all work on Bosses who do not possess any notable traits; would we be giving every boss Perception Manipulation resistance despite the fact that some of them are literally just big bad boss versions of normal enemies?

Plus to add, Goku has fought opponents who masks their presence to the point that they're literally less notable than a rock (I.E. Completely erase their presence rather than be as unnoticeable as a rock) and he still held on fine.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

He can still visually see them, he can't see link. Yes there's different types, that doesn't suddenly mean Goku can now sense Link, that's not even remotely a coherent argument when the thread itself has explained why Goku can't sense him since Tatl literally has a similar form of ki sensing. How is that horribly OoC for Goku to not strike back when the explanation given was literally that he wouldn't even know he was hit due to the very properties of how the stone mask works. Yes, we should give every boss a resistance, how does this debunk anything? They're literally beings that can warp entire country sized areas via merely existing. None of these arguments make sense.

 

[AKM sama]

Lol @ the argument "Link wins via hiding" To correct one misconception here, Link hiding =/= Link making Goku leave. He isn't mind manipulating or forcing Goku to leave the battlefield, he isn't triggering any thoughts in Goku's mind. If Goku is unable to find Link who is hiding and decides to leave, it would be on his own accord out of uninterest.

This isn't a different case than Goku going up against a literal staute, and leaving out of uninterest just because the statue won't attack.

Plus, that argument doesn't hold because Goku knows that there's an opponent who is hiding and he is willing to kill that opponent, and in that case he'll just use an AoE attack.

Also since the city being populated would create a massive imbalance in any fight concerning a good character and an evil character, I'm pretty sure that's not the case as per our standards. This is something that should be made clearer in the Standard Battle Assumptions.

So, is this a stomp or...

 

[TriforcePower1]

This is just inconclusive.

Goku cannot perceive Link and Link cannot hurt Goku via AP advantage.

Can Goku just AoE? Yes, but that's OoC and has the same probability of happening of Link using his only hax in-game, the Goron Lulluby, and winning via sleep manipulation.

 

[AshenCrow777]

this honestly seems like a waste of time i dont know hwy you are all trying to one up each other people seem to forget a fight can go inconclusive.


like TP1 i vote inconclusive.

 

[AKM sama]

Goku can very well use an AoE attack in this scenario, especially if there's no fear of collateral casualties. You can't really say OOC when he's never been in this situation. The nearest he got to a situation like this were against Hit and Damon and he used AoE enough to work on those guys.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

To put it bluntly. SSB Goku could power up and rip apart Hit's pocket reality. What rationale even exists for Goku to just...not power up and let his aura do the work? Do people just think auras in DB are lightshows?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

If Goku powers up wouldn't he melt the flesh off of Link's body?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Sure worked on Krillin

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

So Goku is star level?

 

[AKM sama]

If Goku powers up wouldn't he melt the flesh off of Link's body?

If he powers up like Vegeta did against Majin Buu then sure.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Goku could do it in a less harmful manner as well. Again, he shattered Hit's dimension by simply powering up and caused no lethal harm to Hit in the process.

 

[AKM sama]

Sure he can. I was just saying that he needs to power up in an offensive way, rather than his usual style.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

I'm going to follow this.