Minecraft Key dividers and tier inaccuracies

[Ayewale]

I think every single stamina rating in the entire verse is unfounded apart from maybe Steve's, as well.

 

[Ayewale]

Not to mention, I think the 'Regenerationn' listed for the player is based off game mechanics as well. And where are the 'Subsonic' speed tiers for monsters and such coming from?

 

[Ayewale]

The Creeper has ******* 'Stealth Mastery' for gods' sake, that made me chortle really hard.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

Mobs scaling to Silverfish makes sense, I have no clue what's wrong with scaling above one of the notably weakest hostile mobs in the game.

I hardly ever pay attention to stamina, so if that's actually being considered a thing then that can be removed and replaced with unknown.

I don't see how the Regenerationn itself is a game mechanic unless you imagine it as "Steve heals half a heart every 2 seconds" or something like that. Steve can take arrows to multiple parts of his body, including his skull, and he can recover from that. The subsonic tiers comes from scaling from players being able to react to and block arrows, which iirc was 100 m/s.

Stealth Mastery for the creeper makes no sense and that should be removed as well. I never even knew that was a thing.

 

[Ayewale]

The player doesn't react to arrows, you (the actual player) do. There's nothing in-game of Steve ever blocking arrows, and anything else depends on you being able to block them.


The Regenerationn is based off steve healing his hearts, which is real dumb. Him surviving the arrows might be regen, though.


Also, the ONLY way for mobs to scale for Silverfish is through attack damage, which is a matter of pure game mechanics.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

Steve literally has literally 0 relevance in the game otherwise, I don't see what you're disproving...

That's exactly where his regen comes from; being able to heal from arrow wounds.

I think you need to refer to the Game Mechanics page.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

Anyways, I go offline in less than a minute now.

Hopefully nothing goes wrong by then.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

You can't block an arrow that's already fired.

Or, well, you can at very large distances. 8 tried a dozen times with a skeleton and it took, like, 5 blocks to actually be able to raise the shield before it hits me. (I technically raised it earlier at a closer range too, but 5he game disagreed and I was damaged normally regardless).

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

(I happen to have gone to McDonald's and this is a short reply, so let me enjoy this free wifi for the next 5 minutes)

I personally can't test it myself since I main minecraft on my phone, which requires a double tap to sneak and therefore raise the shield, rather than one tap, but if that's the case, Superhuman combat speed with subsonic reactions is fair. But I think the other reason the subsonic rating is used is because endermen can react and teleport away from arrows at the last moment. Either way I'm neutral on speed so do with that what you will.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Pretty sure that was attributed to it passively doing that, since a ranged attack physically cannot hit it (if you remove every block in the world except the one it's standing on, a projectile will be simply deflected instead of hitting it.)

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

I would suggest saving things like a Regenerationn or speed revision for a sepreate thread.

This threads already gone on for a long time, I would suggest just reaching a consensus on attack potency and tiers (the main issue in this thread) before moving on to other parts of the verse.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, for what it is worth, I think that the revisions seem to make sense.

 

[KGiffoni]

From what I've seen, the majority of Minecraft tiers and scaling seem to be mostly just cherrypicking game mechanics and saying that they're actual 'feats' within the verse. I think this has been said before, but the majority of the verse should be redone at this point.

Agreed with this. The building results seem way more concrete and factual than the town results.

 

[Jinsye]

Boss-tiers should be going down to 8-B when this happens btw, both the Ender Dragon getting rid of water and the Wither blowing up are around that level.

8-C Boss Mobs don't make a whole lotta sense from the Wither explosion at the very least, and Iron Golems and The Player can survive it.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

Yeah, okay, let's just ignore the four comments I made refuting all those points as well as exposing the hypocrisy of those building-level ratings blatantly going against the Game Mechanics page.

See you guys in a few days/weeks when I have to inevitably make an upgrade thread, as well as an unironic downgrade thread for Terraria using the exact same logic.

 

[KGiffoni]

The Creeper has ******* 'Stealth Mastery' for gods' sake, that made me chortle really hard.

Yeah, that's ridiculous imo.

 

[Idazmi]

The Regenerationn is based off steve healing his hearts, which is real dumb. Him surviving the arrows might be regen, though.

Steve having Regenerationn is legit: when he's eaten food, he heals very quickly, and that is an element that plays directly into his later fights with the Ender Dragon and the Wither.

And where are the 'Subsonic' speed tiers for monsters and such coming from?

Yeah, that's entirely unfounded.

 

[Idazmi]

I would suggest saving things like a Regenerationn or speed revision for a sepreate thread.

This threads already gone on for a long time, I would suggest just reaching a consensus on attack potency and tiers (the main issue in this thread) before moving on to other parts of the verse.

Agreed. As far as my calculations have gone, most weaker Mobs are 9-B, the stronger Mobs are around 8-C. I haven't calculated for any bosses, but Edwardtruong2006's statement that they're around 8-B is very likely, expecially considering the Wither's explosion and charge.

 

[Kringaling]

Hey i calced the wither explosion just check my global edits it's the newest one.

 

[Antvasima]

You can insert a link to your blog post instead.

 

[Kringaling]

Ok I'm new so I dont know whats acceptable.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3481570?useskin=oasis

 

[Antvasima]

You can ask here for help with calculating feats: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3403260

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

Now that I'm properly back, let me get something straight here.

I HEAVILY prefer you guys go back to reread my messages in this thread, as I just started commenting on it merely weeks ago and this thread has been mostly dead since then (not to mention I commented twice about people ignoring me to try to get these false revisions to go through, and yet those responses were still ignored).

However, for a TL;DR, You guys are attempting to be completely fine with agreeing to "calcs" which are nothing more than using the game mechanics of hitpoints to attempt to find a level of power for these mobs. I've summarized this entire thread in my first comment on the 8th of September, and yet you guys attempt to ignore it. I thought these threads were decided via better arguments, not via last man standing.

I'm starting to rant, so I'll drop that topic, at least for now in case it resurfaces. You all can scroll back to September 8th and read this thread if you'd like to understand what I'm trying to say. Anyways, let me state my opinion of the top tier revisions:

Enderdragon Calc
As stated in the beginning of my very first comment of this thread, as well as the beginning of the second, all arguments for and against the Enderdragon have ultimately concluded into "possibly 7-C" at worst. So... If you're going to respond to refute my stance on this Enderdragon feat, reread the beginnings of my first two comments so that you don't repeat what has already been refuted.

The feat is legit, but Saikou's calc makes two major mistakes that causes the value to be massively inflated. One is assuming the Dragon would ever legitimately get in a situation where it would be completely surrounded within blocks in order to destroy them all. The second was using the vaporization of steel since water was supposedly vaporized.

Flaw 1
This terrain obliterating mechanic is mainly for the Ender Dragon's RAMMING attacks. So instead of the 14×8×16 volume that Saikou offered, we should only use the front of the Dragon: 14×8, or 112 blocks. This makes 112 million cubic centimeters.

Flaw 2
The second flaw was assuming because water is vaporized, steel is too. However, those two are completely different pieces of matter. Instead of highballing it with vaporizing steel, Saikou should have kept with the vaporization of water. Of course, looking on the Calculations page, there is no specific vaporization value for water, however there is a value used as a default: 25,700 j/cc. Multiplying the cubic centimeters by the vaporization value gives us a yield of 2.8784 trillion joules, 8-A+. That is less than a kiloton of force, a far cry from the current 166 kiloton rating.

Obsidian Destruction

STOP IGNORING OBSIDIAN
Obsidian is commonly dismissed in most attempts to downgrade Minecraft, and I have no idea why as it's a fundamental element throughout Minecraft the moment one gets a diamond pickaxe. Obsidian is not only unable to be mined by lower tier pickaxes, but it is so durable that it takes ages for it to even be mined, unlike every other 'unmineable' block in the game where it only takes a few seconds. Obsidian was specifically designed with a high blast resistance value to no-sell TNT explosions to signify its durability. It's a signature element when it comes to making portals to alternate dimensions, or creating a table to magically enchant items. Obsidian is even significant when it comes to being used in the End Dimension. It is MEANT to be signified as a POWERFUL and MYSRICAL block, it should NOT be ignored, as ignoring its existence is literally one of the biggest reasons this downgrade is still argued about.

So if it can't be ignored, then we can't ignore that a diamond pickaxe can mine obsidian FAR easier than the other tiers, signifying that Diamond gear is supposed to be a league above the rest. So yes, the Late Game player will scale to this. With that out of the way, how durable IS obsidian?

The tier of Obsidia
Well with a blast resistance of 6,000, it takes an explosive power of 285 to destroy it. So what kind of damage can that do? Well, I've tested it myself.


Long story short, until I can properly upload my video for proof (since that video file is 207 MB), just work with the screenshot.

The explosive power to destroy obsidian is the same power that destroys at least 50,893 blocks of stone. Violent fragmentation is 69 j/cc, so a destruction of this level results in 3.511617 trillion joules.... ALSO 8-A+.

And the Wither's blue skull attacks can destroy obsidian.

While I'm completely fine with keeping the Wither at 8-A+, one could argue for Low 7-C since literally doubling baseline 8-A+ is Low 7-C. Why do I say this? Because the Wither's ram attack in its second state can ccasually bust through MULTIPLE pieces of obsidian.

So what scales? All the top tiers. Wither becomes at least 8-A+, likely Low 7-C. The Late Game Player scales. The Ender Dragon scales. The Ravager scales. The Iron Golem scales. The Elder Guardian scales. The Village Civilization scales.

And while a decent amount of you will be quick to say this was 'barely a downgrade' because you only look at the tier names, allow me to remind you the top tiers currently scale to 166 kilotons, whereas mine is only a little more than a half, and can only LIKELY scale to somewhere over 1 kiloton.


Refuting Idazmi's Argument
Despite the fact that I told you guys more than once to reread my messages, I feel that if I don't address this now, you all will ignore the faults. So I'll just give you a taste of the issues, and the ones willing to can go back and reread to see the rest of the issues.

Idazmi's argument is that people are exploiting Game Mechanics to wank Minecraft to the max, yet he hypocritically uses the Game Mechanics to downgrade Minecraft to the minimum. And this is not the only argument he contradicts.

He makes the claim that our current standards would have something like a minecraft sheep at small building level which according to him make no sense. HOWEVER, his very "calcs" themselves literally have sheep surviving walls exploding several times over by using the exact same logic. He tries to make the claim that Minecraft sheep should be exactly like sheep in real-life (because why else would he complain about it), yet his very attempt to downgrade contradicts him.

What's making him come to this conclusion? Hit points.

According to the Game Mechanics page, Game Mechanics are noncanon, and using them to upgrade or downgrade a verse is fallacious. It was SPECIFICALLY listed that using Hit Points and stat points falls under this category.

So by default, Idazmi's argument should be rejected instead of it being rushed into acceptance to try to close the thread.

Not to mention that it's honestly contradicting how we powerscale on this wiki. If one can hit and reliably hurt someone, then their attack scales to their durability. By Idazmi unironically using hitpoints, a wall level creature should be able to take out a building level boss. That the wither's 'weak attacks' should be able to scale to a character who can survive its wither explosion. Etc etc.

Of course he may try to claim that there has to be an invisible line of "common sense", but by even attempting to make this claim means that he goes back on his entire argument back to the "small building level" sheep. There is an invisible line of common sense, because every fiction has its fair share of inconsistencies, and one should especially not assume Minecraft to be 100% consistent.

And on top of everything, Idazmi's attempt to downgrade does the same thing that every other person attempting to downgrade the verse does; ignore obsidian's existence, despite its major importance to the lategame key.

Summary (TL;DR)
The top tiers of Minecraft should downgrade from "7-C" to "At least 8-A+, likely Low 7-C."

Idazmi's stance does not only heavily contradict his arguments, does not only go against the wiki's powerscaling rules, does not only break the game mechanics rules, but it also ignores a key factor of progress in Minecraft in order to come with the lowest AP values possible. At the very end of the day, no matter what your conclusion to my argument is, Idazmi's argument should not be agreed with whatsoever.

 

[Antvasima]

DSTH seems to make a good argument.

Maybe it would be better to simply recalculate the Enderdragon feat in a blog post, and otherwise keep things much as they are?

 

[Ayewale]

Hmm, my thread seems a lot different than what I remember. But anyways, yeah, in the post you state that Hit Points and Health points shouldn't be counted in the scaling for games, but I could argue that that's what you used for your enderdragon calc.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

But the enderdragon calc is focused on block destruction...? There's no HP involved.

 

[Idazmi]

Hmm, my thread seems a lot different than what I remember. But anyways, yeah, in the post you state that Hit Points and Health points shouldn't be counted in the scaling for games, but I could argue that that's what you used for your enderdragon calc.

The issue being that Minecraft is only game mechanics: there's no larger plot to compare anything to.

 

[Idazmi]

The (Enderdragon) feat is legit

Then explain exactly where the blocks are going. Nothing's being vaporized because the blocks disappear entirely, leaving no trace. Minecraft has a vaporization animation, and the Ender Dragon attack doesn't cause it for any block. They simply go "poof".

Obsidian is commonly dismissed in most attempts to downgrade Minecraft, and I have no idea why as it's a fundamental element throughout Minecraft the moment one gets a diamond pickaxe. (...) And on top of everything, Idazmi's attempt to downgrade does the same thing that every other person attempting to downgrade the verse does; ignore obsidian's existence, despite its major importance to the lategame key.

None of my arguments dismiss Obsidian: I dismissed the Enderdragon feat as incalculable because it causes no calculatable effect: no explosion, fragmentation, pulverization, or vaporization.

Idazmi's argument is that people are exploiting Game Mechanics to wank Minecraft to the max, yet he hypocritically uses the Game Mechanics to downgrade Minecraft to the minimum. And this is not the only argument he contradicts. He makes the claim that our current standards would have something like a minecraft sheep at small building level which according to him make no sense. HOWEVER, his very "calcs" themselves literally have sheep surviving walls exploding several times over by using the exact same logic.

1. 8-C sheep wool wasn't MY claim at all. Rather, Edwardtruong2006 asserted in his own words that Minecraft fire is hotter than the Nether - which vaporizes a meter of water instantly - despite said fire being put out by a simple bucket of water. He used that to assert that sheep wool is 8-C, because sheep don't instantly die in the Nether. I rightly called that out as ridiculous, as did Agnaa, DMB 1, and Ricsi-viragosi.

2. My calculations don't result in 8-C sheep wool.

Idazmi's stance does not only heavily contradict his arguments, does not only go against the wiki's powerscaling rules, does not only break the game mechanics rules, but it also ignores a key factor of progress in Minecraft in order to come with the lowest AP values possible. At the very end of the day, no matter what your conclusion to my argument is, Idazmi's argument should not be agreed with whatsoever.

I never contradicted my own arguments here.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

Then explain exactly where the blocks are going. Nothing's being vaporized because the blocks disappear entirely, leaving no trace. Minecraft has a vaporization animation, and the Ender Dragon attack doesn't cause it for any block. They simply go "poof".

"If you're going to respond to refute my stance on this Enderdragon feat, reread the beginnings of my first two comments so that you don't repeat what has already been refuted."

You shouldn't even need to be reminded about this. Why haven't you responded to my refute to your enderdragon claim weeks ago? You had several opportunities weeks ago, but you just blatantly ignored my comments. What, did you just accidentally skip over my comment spam and then my comments afterwards about being ignored?

If you want an answer, reread like I've preemptively asked for in my quote.

None of my arguments dismiss Obsidian: I dismissed the Enderdragon feat as incalculable because it causes no calculatable effect: no explosion, fragmentation, pulverization, or vaporization.

Where in your arguments is obsidian ever addressed? Quote that part for me.

1. 8-C sheep wool wasn't MY claim at all. Rather, Edwardtruong2006 asserted in his own words that Minecraft fire is hotter than the Nether - which vaporizes a meter of water instantly - despite said fire being put out by a simple bucket of water. He used that to assert that sheep wool is 8-C, because sheep don't instantly die in the Nether. I rightly called that out as ridiculous, as did Agnaa, DMB 1, and Ricsi-viragosi.

2. My calculations don't result in 8-C sheep wool.

1. I never said it was. I literally note that you disagreed with it, it would hurt my argument if I said you agreed with it.

You missed the point of my argument. You would have not missed it if you included the last sentence of my paragraph into the quote: "He tries to make the claim that Minecraft sheep should be exactly like sheep in real-life (because why else would he complain about it), yet his very attempt to downgrade contradicts him."

2. "HOWEVER, his very "calcs" themselves literally have sheep surviving walls exploding several times over by using the exact same logic."

I don't think wall level is 8-C. Again, missing the point.

I never contradicted my own arguments here.

I made an explanation otherwise that was so long, it had to be its own section.

Your refute is rather shallow and completely misreads my argument.

 

[Idazmi]

"If you're going to respond to refute my stance on this Enderdragon feat, reread the beginnings of my first two comments so that you don't repeat what has already been refuted." You shouldn't even need to be reminded about this. Why haven't you responded to my refute to your enderdragon claim weeks ago?" You had several opportunities weeks ago, but you just blatantly ignored my comments. What, did you just accidentally skip over my comment spam and then my comments afterwards about being ignored? If you want an answer, reread like I've preemptively asked for in my quote.

I did reply, right below your original comment. My answer still stands: we were ignoring your following comments because they had no bearing on the conclusions we'd reached.

Where in your arguments is obsidian ever addressed? Quote that part for me.

No need: we are discussing the Ender Dragon, not Obsidian, which is mined by a diamond pickaxe, not an explosion created by the Player's attacks (it's being gradually chipped at instead of blown apart). Other than that, Obsidian's current durability, like everything else in the Minecraft profiles, is being rated based on the flawed calculation of the Ender Dragon's "vaporization" feat, not the other way around. That's what's being discussed.

1. I never said it was. I literally note that you disagreed with it, it would hurt my argument if I said you agreed with it.

You said: "He makes the claim that our current standards would have something like a minecraft sheep at small building level which according to him make no sense." Which is a deliberate misrepresentation of my argument. Edwardtruong2006 said that Minecraft's fire is hotter than the Nether - which vaporizes a meter of water instantly - despite said fire being put out by a simple bucket of water. He used that to assert that sheep wool is 8-C, because sheep don't instantly die in the Nether. I rightly called that out as ridiculous, as did Agnaa, DMB 1, and Ricsi-viragosi.

You missed the point of my argument. You would have not missed it if you included the last sentence of my paragraph into the quote: "He tries to make the claim that Minecraft sheep should be exactly like sheep in real-life (because why else would he complain about it), yet his very attempt to downgrade contradicts him." (...) "HOWEVER, his very "calcs" themselves literally have sheep surviving walls exploding several times over by using the exact same logic." I don't think wall level is 8-C. Again, missing the point.

When did I say anything about real life? In addition, my calculations don't contradict my actual statement that sheep wool is not 8-C. I didn't miss a darned thing: you're just putting words into my mouth.

I made an explanation otherwise that was so long, it had to be its own section. (...) Your refute is rather shallow and completely misreads my argument.

No, I'm not misreading your argument. I'm dismantling it, because it's wrong on every level.

 

[Antvasima]

You preferably need to come to an agreement. I don't know enough about Minecraft to properly determine who is in the right here.

 

[KGiffoni]

I think Idazmi is right.

 

[Antvasima]

Maybe you can ask some other staff members to help out with evaluating this?

 

[Idazmi]

You preferably need to come to an agreement. I don't know enough about Minecraft to properly determine who is in the right here.

Minecraft can definitely be difficult to evaluate, since it has absolutely no story, and it's blocky gameplay comes with some pretty weird physics and game mechanics. Even with that weirdness in mind, though, it's clear that DeathstroketheHedgehog is being deliberately facetious and trying to distract the topic.

https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Obsidia

Obsidian is absolutely Minecraft's strongest material, and it is magical... but no one in the game wears it, or makes weapons out of it. It's only used to make dimensional portals and magical enchantments. Obviously, that has nothing to do with anyone's AP, which is what were discussing: the APs of the various animals and NPCs in Minecraft (which are called MOBs, for "Mobile Objects"). So, why did he bring it up? Look at this quote of his:

The explosive power to destroy obsidian is the same power that destroys at least 50,893 blocks of stone. (...) And the Wither's blue skull attacks can destroy obsidian.

What he left out is how the blue skulls work. After all, nothing in Minecraft naturally (without mods) blows up anywhere near big enough to destroy 50,893 blocks of anything - that would likely crash the game. Quoting from the following page:

https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Wither#Wither_Skull

"The wither shoots explosive projectiles called wither skulls, which look like extra heads of itself, at its target. There are two types of wither skulls: a fast-moving black one, and a slower blue one. Black wither skulls explode with a blast radius of 1, the same as a ghast's fireball, and cannot break blocks with a blast resistance above 20. The blue wither skull has the same explosion strength, but moves slower and treats most blocks as having a blast resistance of no more than 4, making it more destructive to the terrain."

The Wither's Obsidian-destroying attacks (the blue wither skulls) ignore the resistance of materials that they hit, including Obsidian (which has a resistance of 6000). This ability only affects blocks, not the Player, his armor, or MOBs. That's why the Wither can destroy Obsidian. Not by brute force, but by ignoring Obsidian's blast resistance.

DeathstroketheHedgehog is lying by omission in order to minimize the "damage" I'm doing to Minecraft with my downgrade proposal. He does this by reminding everyone that the Wither can destroy Obsidian (which it can) and then inflating the AP with what you don't know. This is pretty much exactly how the Ender Dragon's ability to make matter disappear as it flies was used to get diamond swords to 7-C, and virtually all the MOB profiles to 8-C despite the Player's ability to easily kill most of them with wooden swords: they said it's a vaporization feat, but gave no evidence that the blocks were vaporizing, even though we know what that looks like in Minecraft:


NETHER - What to Know! The Minecraft Guide - Minecraft 1.14.2 Lets Play Episode 17

At 9:07, we see how water vaporizes in Minecraft - it makes a distinct hissing sound and evaporates into steam clouds.


Why Ender Dragons won't spawn in the main world

The Ender dragon flying through dirt and stone blocks, leaving neither sound nor trace of the blocks behind. No steam.

Reverse-engineer the numbers from the inflated calc, and boom: diamond swords are suddenly 7-C, and sheep are 8-C.

Idazmi's argument is that people are exploiting Game Mechanics to wank Minecraft to the max (...)

Because that's exactly what's going on.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that Idazmi seems to make sense after all. He can probably apply his suggested changes.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

I did reply, right below your original comment. My answer still stands: we were ignoring your following comments because they had no bearing on the conclusions we'd reached.

And I responded. It was literally my second comment on this thread.

I guess you intentionally ignored it since that's part of the 'following comments' you're talking about.

"Rushed phone response to Idazmi's refute. Forgive my spelling errors." is literally the first line of that comment. It's the same argument, so it literally talks about the same conclusions, specifically the enderdragon problem. None of my comments have changed from the original topic save from one or comment replying to Ayewale about an off-topic abilities revision, but that was when I said I was going offline for a few weeks.

I made an explanation otherwise that was so long, it had to be its own section. (...) Your refute is rather shallow and completely misreads my argument.

No, I'm not misreading your argument. I'm dismantling it, because it's wrong on every level.

When are you ever going to address the entirety of my argument? You literally only respond to a portion of the points. You're not dismantling my argument 'on every level' if you're only commenting to a part of it. Are you forgetting the fact that I pointed out the powerscaling flaws, the game mechanic flaws? Your entire obsidian refute comes from not addressing where I calced obsidian from, and literally the only thing you properly tried to address was the part where you contradict yourself. That's why I said your argument was 'shallow'.

Now can you please go back and actually address that argument, or am I going to have to quote it for you?

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

You preferably need to come to an agreement. I don't know enough about Minecraft to properly determine who is in the right here.

The biggest reason we can't come to an agreement is because all arguments are not addressed. If you reread Idasmi's refutes to my comment, you'll realize he's skipping over points of my comment (which I just recently addressed). And he even admitted to 'ignoring them' because they apparently were off topic, yet the only comment off topic was the response to Ayewale.

The explosive power to destroy obsidian is the same power that destroys at least 50,893 blocks of stone. (...) And the Wither's blue skull attacks can destroy obsidian.

What he left out is how the blue skulls work. After all, nothing in Minecraft naturally (without mods) blows up anywhere near big enough to destroy 50,893 blocks of anything - that would likely crash the game. Quoting from the following page:

https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Wither#Wither_Skull

"The wither shoots explosive projectiles called wither skulls, which look like extra heads of itself, at its target. There are two types of wither skulls: a fast-moving black one, and a slower blue one. Black wither skulls explode with a blast radius of 1, the same as a ghast's fireball, and cannot break blocks with a blast resistance above 20. The blue wither skull has the same explosion strength, but moves slower and treats most blocks as having a blast resistance of no more than 4, making it more destructive to the terrain."

The Wither's Obsidian-destroying attacks (the blue wither skulls) ignore the resistance of materials that they hit, including Obsidian (which has a resistance of 6000). This ability only affects blocks, not the Player, his armor, or MOBs. That's why the Wither can destroy Obsidian. Not by brute force, but by ignoring Obsidian's blast resistance.

DeathstroketheHedgehog is lying by omission in order to minimize the "damage" I'm doing to Minecraft with my downgrade proposal. He does this by reminding everyone that the Wither can destroy Obsidian (which it can) and then inflating the AP with what you don't know.

And what exactly does blast resistance signify? The durability of the block, the smount of force required to destroy said block. Destroying said block means overwhelming its durability. That page defines the coding behind how the attack works because like the Enderdragon argument I stated in my very first comment, it'd be better if video games did not absolutely grief the battlefield just for a feat. This was called out as an AoE fallacy for a reason.

The only way your argument would make sense was if you claimed that the wither skulls negate durability. But going by your logic, wouldn't that mean that it would also negate the durability of the Player itself? And that's not what happens. Now you need to make up more reasoning as to why a Wither, ontent on killing all life, can't actually attack the player this way.


Not to mention, this wasn't even the only feat of obsidian destruction of the wither. The wither's charge is literally why my argument added a 'likely Low 7-C rating', because the Wither's charging attack shatters through multiple layers of blocks, obsidian included.

This is pretty much exactly how the Ender Dragon's ability to make matter disappear as it flies was used to get diamond swords to 7-C, and virtually all the MOB profiles to 8-C despite the Player's ability to easily kill most of them with wooden swords: they said it's a vaporization feat, but gave no evidence that the blocks were vaporizing, even though we know what that looks like in Minecraft:

This was exactly why I wanted people to reread what I said. All arguments about the enderdragon feat had no proper conclusion on EITHER side of the debate. The closest sort of conclusion that ever came up was "possibly 7-C". This is why I said ahead of time to reread what I said so I don't have to repeat arguments.

> existence erasure already exists in Minecraft, and the Enderdragon's attack is meant to hurt the player and knock them back. It's a forceful attack. The Player literally dies from falling into the void, it isn't resistant to void manipulation.

> Someone already made the argument and posted unrefuted evidence that when the enderdragon is staying still, it is not passively destroying blocks. So it is an attack of force.

>AoE Fallacy all over the boards

> iron golems, armor, weapons, they're all made of nonliving things yet they don't get erased on contact with the dragon, but they DO take damage.

> even the weakest mob is resistant to existence erasure

> it's either the enderdragon destroys blocks with physical force, or "The Ender Dragon magically erases the blocks from existence which either only works on non-living beings or grants every creature in the game resistance to Existence Erasure and that it somehow doesn't work on End Stone, Obsidian, Bedrock, and Armor while not working at all how actual void manip in the game works." Not to mention living blocks like coral.

> You are so focused on things ingame that you don't think about it in-universe.

DeathstroketheHedgehog"] Idazmi's argument is that people are exploiting Game Mechanics to wank Minecraft to the max (...) [/quote]
Because that's exactly what's going on.

Let me properly quote that for you.


"Idazmi's argument is that people are exploiting Game Mechanics to wank Minecraft to the max, yet he hypocritically uses the Game Mechanics to downgrade Minecraft to the minimum."

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

Didn't think I'd need to make a second "wake up" call about Idazmi unironically using game mechanics, especially after pointing out that by Idazmi's logic, falling from 50 meters in minecraft would likely be building level in minecraft, but if you guys are still trying to agree to Idazmi's argument, then the changes cannot be implemented until you all do a CRT on the Game Mechanics page. Like I've pointed out more than enough times, Idazmi's argument contradicts it and powerscaling heavily, yet you all are ignoring it in an attempt to make it go through.


TL;DR. You want Idazmi's stance to go through? You need a CRT of game mechanics, and how we treat games in powerscaling.

 

[Antvasima]

What is the consensus here from Agnaa and the staff members who have commented earlier?

 

[Kringaling]

Only issue I see is the fact any exposion with of powr of like 12 can one shot the player with full blast resitant 4 diamond armor. Kinda of seems like an outlier