Minecraft Key dividers and tier inaccuracies

[Idazmi]

What is the consensus here from Agnaa and the staff members who have commented earlier?

Agnaa and Therefir both agreed that the Ender Dragon feat is Hax and deserves a downgrade. Some of of Agnaa's comments are linked here, here, and here, some of Therefir's comments are here, here, and here. They have plenty more, of course, and they clearly oppose the idea that the Ender Dragon is 7-C based on the information available. They question the calculation, the applicability of the feat to other MOBs, the rationale of using it as a feat in the first place, and so on, just as I do. They only received evasive answers.

Aside from Staff Members, Ayewale, The God Of Procrastination, RageComment, Dziga, SuperAPM, MattadorProne, Jimboydejuan12, and HierophantDeluxe all generally agreed with my reasoning.

As far as conclusions go, the thread went on so long that most everyone eventually just left, but the majority opinion is that the Ender Dragon's ability is hax, and that because of this, Minecraft needs a severe downgrade - everything in the current profiles is based on the Ender Dragon calc, and assumptions surrounding it.

It's worth noting that DeathstroketheHedgehog just said:

And what exactly does blast resistance signify? The durability of the block, the smount of force required to destroy said block. Destroying said block means overwhelming its durability.

I just showed you that the Blue Wither Skull has a mechanic that ignores blast resistance instead of using brute force to destroy blocks, and I'm not interested in endlessly writing essays to counter every counterargument DeathstroketheHedgehog dreams up until he decides to "come to an agreement": if I did that, this thread would go on for another 1000 or more posts and he'd still be making excuses. We already know that he's gaslighting the issue.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, then Idazmi's revisions seem to have been accepted, and we should proceed to apply them, so this thread can be finished.

Just remember to closely follow our editing instructions:

Common Editing Mistakes

Standard Format for Character Profiles

 

[Kringaling]

Hope these calcs help with justification. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/B...comment-43739337-20190913011832?useskin=oasis

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3481570?useskin=oasis Frist is a creeper and tnt recalc, and the second link is the wither explosion calc.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

I just showed you that the Blue Wither Skull has a mechanic that ignores blast resistance instead of using brute force to destroy blocks, and I'm not interested in endlessly writing essays to counter every counterargument DeathstroketheHedgehog dreams up until he decides to "come to an agreement": if I did that, this thread would go on for another 1000 or more posts and he'd still be making excuses. We already know that he's gaslighting the issue.

Except you've been ignoring me since my second comment, you're making it sound like I've been here since the beginning.

The only real arguments you addressed were the ones I said where I said it was already discussed in the many, many, comments above.

But either way, I've already said in my comment (which you once again chose to ignore) that you are taking these in-game values as in-universe ones. This, and taking hitpoints seriously, is literally one of the biggest reasons as to why your argument is full of game-coding logic, and therefore according to the wiki, fallacious.

And for the last time, you all need to make a CRT of Game Mechanics and how powerscaling should be treated in games if you try to go with Idazmi's argument, because it is violating those rules, and it's double standards to try to make it go through otherwise.

 

[Antvasima]

What rules are Idazmi's suggested changes violating in summary?

 

[Idazmi]

What rules are Idazmi's suggested changes violating in summary?

He's basically saying that Minecraft's game mechanics aren't canon in-universe, based on the principles described under Game Mechanics:

Game Mechanics: "For example, in many Star Wars games, a capital ship can be destroyed by repeated laser attacks from a single fighter (namely, the fighter reduced the capital ship's HP to zero over a number of laser attacks that do a certain amount of damage based on coding in the game's programming).

In an actual in-universe battle, however, this would be impossible as the Force shields would recharge faster than the fighter could damage them (HP doesn't exist, that's not how durability functions outside of games. You can't chip away at something and hope to break on through if the fire power that you are packing isn't sufficient enough) (...) Game mechanics are considered non-canon, and using them in an argument is considered fallacious."

Of course, he's leaving out the fact that Minecraft, unlike Star Wars, has no plot, and no cinematic cutscenes: no interactions that take place outside of gameplay. Rather, Minecraft's "universe" is 100% comprised of gameplay that takes place within it's own odd blocky world and physics, which is what makes calcing the franchise so difficult in the first place. Thus, the fallacious argument is his.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I think that we can apply the changes that have been accepted by the other staff members then.

 

[Idazmi]

Okay. I think that we can apply the changes that have been accepted by the other staff members then.

I'm staring to edit the profiles. However, The Player (Minecraft) page is edit protected.

 

[Antvasima]

I will unlock it for you.

 

[Bowser-us]

Minecraft bedrock edition - Wither dash-3

Does it look higher than High 8-C? in bedrock edition, Wither is able to destroy hundreds of blocks in seconds

 

[Robot972]

The Ender Crystal needs quite a bit of work then

 

[Idazmi]

@Bowser-us

That has been calced. The Wither can destroy 67 blocks instantaneously, that charge is essentially the same thing, with the Wither in motion instead of stationary. The results will still be around High 8-C.

 

[Idazmi]

The Ender Crystal needs quite a bit of work then

I know, I'll get to that. The whole verse is being overhauled.

 

[Bowser-us]

@Idazmi

video doesn't show explosions. Wither destroys blocks like a dragon

 

[Idazmi]

@Bowser-us


Why Ender Dragons won't spawn in the main world-0

The dragon doesn't destroy the blocks, it deletes them. Please read through this thread. Also, the results of the Wither Charge will still be well within High 8-C.

 

[Antvasima]

Don't quote long posts please.

Also, what is left to do here?

 

[Idazmi]

Don't quote long posts please.

Also, what is left to do here?

Nothing: all that's left is changing the actual profiles, which I am in the process of doing.

 

[Bowser-us]

what about Wither Storm? Is he still 7-C or what

 

[Idazmi]

what about Wither Storm? Is he still 7-C or what

Probably, but that's from a spinoff game that bears little relevance to Minecraft itself. This entire thread was about the Ender Dragon from Minecraft, the actual game, and how an error in it's calculation was throwing off the rest of the verse.

 

[Antvasima]

@Idazmi

Okay. Thank you for the help.

 

[Idazmi]

@Antvasima

You're welcome.

 

[Antvasima]

Tell us here when you are done.

Also, please remember to closely follow the editing instructions linked below.

Common Editing Mistakes

Standard Format for Character Profiles

 

[Antvasima]

You are not allowed to use discussion threads as evidence for tier changes. You need to place the calculation in a blog post, and then ask the calc group for evaluations:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/index.php?title=Wither&diff=5269892&oldid=5007599

 

[Idazmi]

@Antvasima

I finished with the player's profile. Working on MOBs now.

 

[Jinsye]

I had many problems with the changes Idazmi applied

-None of that stuff besides 7-C and maybe the other AP changes were accepted in a CRT.

-Why the hell were Enchantments moved to mid-game? You can't get enchantments until you get diamonds + obsidian. That's late-game.

-Why were potions moved to late-game? You can easily obtain them in mid-game by raiding Witch's Huts which are mid-game structures.

-Gender is explicitly stated to not exist in Minecraft

-Why was the Real Player modified? There was absolutely no CRT on that and this CRT didn't even touch the Real Player.

-Environmental Destruction is not a power.

 

[Ayewale]

Technically what counts as mid-game and end-game is a 1000% subjective.

 

[Jinsye]

As far as I know, we consider Endgame Diamonds and beyond, mid-game is Iron.

 

[KGiffoni]

As far as I know, we consider Endgame Diamonds and beyond, mid-game is Iron.

Yeah, i think most people agree with this. I myself think enchanted diamond armor is late-game while default diamond armor sits at the top of mid-game.

 

[Idazmi]

@Antvasima Can we please close and lock this thread? I get the feeling that I'll be debating with these guys forever if this continues to be open.

 

[Jinsye]

No. Bullshit, you can't call that. These ability changes were never accepted in a CRT so you can't change them

 

[Antvasima]

If Idazmi applied changes that were not accepted here, including ones based on an unevaluated discussion thread calculation, this is technically very against our regulations and a bannable offense. All of his Minecraft edits should be corrected accordingly.

 

[Antvasima]

You are not allowed to use discussion threads as evidence for tier changes. You need to place the calculation in a blog post, and then ask the calc group for evaluations:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/index.php?title=Wither&diff=5269892&oldid=5007599

^

 

[Idazmi]

If Idazmi applied changes that were not accepted here, including ones based on an unevaluated discussion thread calculation, this is technically very against our regulations and a bannable offense. All of his Minecraft edits should be corrected accordingly.

I kept the tier changes to what we discussed and evaluated here. They can be compared.

The Player tiers: 9-B | 9-A | 8-C, as per this and this, which were agreed upon.

Ayewale also agreed with these tiers as did KGiffoni.

 

[Jinsye]

I'm almost 100% sure 9-B wasn't agreed upon. 8-C downgrade is a whole another story.

The ability changes and profile rewriting, definitely weren't agreed upon.

 

[Jinsye]

The Wither doesn't have probability manipulation by the way, it resists it.

 

[KGiffoni]

I'm almost 100% sure 9-B wasn't agreed upon. 8-C downgrade is a whole another story.
The ability changes and profile rewriting, definitely weren't agreed upon.

Yeah. I only agreed with the 8-C part.

 

[Antvasima]

@Idazmi

This has not been handled in an at all appropriate manner.

Calculations should always be placed in blog posts and evaluated by the calc group before they can be used.

If I misunderstood this point earlier due to being distracted from overwork, this is partially my fault, but that doesn't change that the tier changes derived from this are illegitimate and need to be corrected.

However, taking the opportunity to perform lots of changes that were not agreed upon, is directly violating our rules.

Is somebody else willing to revert all of the Minecraft pages to how they were before Idazmi started to edit today, and then apply the legitimate and agreed upon changes only?

 

[Jinsye]

The accepted changes are the following

-Downgrade to High 8-C (but it needs to be put in a blog)

-Downgrade speed from Subsonic to Normal Human/Athletic Human/Peak Human/etc. (this was agreed upon in another thread)

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you.

To start with, is somebody else willing to revert all of the changes to the Minecraft pages from today? After that the calculation should be placed in a blog and evaluated. Then somebody can perform the actual agreed upon revisions.

 

[Jinsye]

I can do it. I've already reverted the changes to The Player's profile, though I might need to revert High 8-C until the calculations are put in a blog.