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Medaka Kurokami vs. Funny Valentine (a.k.a. "Lapitus' unintentional surprise")

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DMB 1 said:
Can Funny BFR her in another universe?
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Yes she can just come back though. All Fiction just erases her cause for being there. Though still for that to even happen he would have to deal with getting 1 shotted with All Fiction.
 
I dunno, he never encountered CM, but the whole thing about LT is that Jesus protects him, he just BFRs any damage, hooray! Or something like that.
 
Yeah, I don't think that you can use standard causality manipulation to get out of a universe.
 
Problem is, Funny can send her in a Universe that is infinitely away from the standard one, because he has Multiversal+ range, while the Cross-Universal Travel would give her only Low Multiversal one.

And no, Funny's range isn't getting downgraded.
 
DMB 1 said:
Yeah, I don't think that you can use standard causality manipulation to get out of a universe.
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Yeah it will work as it will just erase the action. FV never sent her there so she will be back to the battle field, that's how it works.
 
An action commited a few (if not, countless) universes away. Plus, she would have to erase the action in another spacetime to actually work.
 
DMB 1 said:
An action commited a few (if not, countless) universes away. Plus, she would have to erase the action in another spacetime to actually work.
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You are missing the point:

Cause--------------------------------------> Effect (Funny valentine teleported her) (she is now in another unverse)

All Fiction erases both of them

And without any of them, she comes back (it's more like "she was never transported" but for simplicity's sake we say she is brought back)

It has nothing to do with range, there is a cause that affected her.
 
No one has argued BFR until the end.

Most people has argued "paradox beats All Fiction".

And as I said, that's wrong. So any votes using that logic are invalid. Which is all of them because everyone just said FRA instead of using any originality.

So technically, Medaka is in the lead from my and Firepheonix's arguments.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
And as I said, that's wrong. So any votes using that logic are invalid. Which is all of them because everyone just said FRA instead of using any originality.
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Sorry, but just because you disagree with an interpretation on how two different fictional abilities would interact, doesn't mean everyone else is instantly wrong and invalidated. I'm going to need more administrators to back you up before everyones vote is now wrong, I've never seen anyone do that kind of shit ever. As far as I'm concerned, votes still count.

That being said, I'd like to bring up a few points in this fight.

Firstly, Love Train doesn't redirect the ability onto someone else. I've seen a few people commenting this so that's why I'm bringing it up. It it simply transformed into bad luck onto someone else. So if Valentine were to say get shot, it would be negated and maybe someone would end up tripping and falling flat on their face. This redirection works to ridiculous extents, such as large land masses and buildings literally moving torward him, and I remember him even flying just because it was "unfortunate" for him to be walking in that situation. Literally anything not beneficial is disregarded for him. Just wanted to clear that up.

Funny, while currently Multiversal, does not redirect misfortune across other universes, only the one he is currently in, as no other universes have D4C. The dimensional light barrier is the only restriction on it as far as I know, and if his stand leaves this barrier then he puts himself at risk. The only known way to bypass this is with the infinite rotation, or anything with an infinite amount of energy behind it really. In theory, All Fiction can generate this to shatter through his barrier, though in practice I'd doubt she'd think it up.

But I still think All Fiction triumphs FV's Misfortune Redirection. Why? Because All Fiction grants the ability to alter and change the fundemental rules and laws of reality, this includes concepts such as "misfortune". She'd easily be able to re-define the reality of "misfortune" and use it against Valentine. It's possible that she would perform this in a fight, especially with Valentine (and most jojo villains really) bad habit of announcing and explaining their abilities. However, like I said before, if he uses his paradox on her, she will be obliterated from existance. That's very different from dying and having All Fiction bring her back. She is no longer abnormal and possesses no minus to bring herself back from ceasing to be.

I vote for Valentine because in-character, I think he'll get paradox off on Medaka because of her airheaded personality and tendency to build-up before she would typically use her All Fiction.
 
If I vote character X because they can cut off Character Y's head, but Character Y has Low-Godly regen, then my vote is invalid, no matter how many people agree with me. That's what I mean when I say that the votes are invalid. They are voting that Funny will win via something that he can't win with.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
If I vote character X because they can cut off Character Y's head, but Character Y has Low-Godly regen, then my vote is invalid, no matter how many people agree with me. That's what I mean when I say that the votes are invalid. They are voting that Funny will win via something that he can't win with.
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But it's not as black and white as that, it's two abstract reality warping moves going up against each other and trying to determine what would happen. Go ahead and read the end of my last post while you're at it.

Current votes should be around 8 votes Funny and 4 votes Medaka, but Funny should have already won.
 
But this isn't her death, it's her being removed from existence. While death is involved, the two are not the same thing. She can't use All Fiction to negate something when All Fiction no longer exists.

Also she carries no resistance to erasure according to her page.
 
That's fair. I was never convinced it could bring them back from erasure anyway, but I thought that had been accepted. If not, then sure, Merger sponges kill her. Though doesn't he need to bring a copy of her over and put them in contact to do that?

All Fiction still kills him regardless of misfortune redirection though. Assuming she uses it.
 
Which honestly incredibly easy with lt or just a surprise attack throw a handful of water). Harder without lt anyway due he needing contact or the opponent within two objects.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
Apparently All Fiction automatically erases any event that leads to the user's death, so... yes, most likely.
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it doesn't. he is missinterpretting an explanation given by Ajimu to contrast All Fiction and Hundred Gauntlets. He has never done this in story. When his demise is undone, he just gets up as if he never took damage to begin with.
 
@Iapitus It does erase events that lead to his death, that's why he comes back, he has no other means of coming back, he just makes whatever killed him "nothing" or "never happened", FV "never did" bring the 2 Medaka's together, she has no reason to be brought back.

@Thesolidsnakex Well All Fiction is gonna activate under that circumstance actually. Kumagawa was called "invincible" in verse (cus there was no way to kill him really, besides the last boss), that's saying something. All Fiction activates automatically should the user be incapable of activating it (it was discussed in a previous CRT and was accepted), now check Kumgawa's or Medaka's profile and see "resistance to power erasure", even all fiction failed to erase a minus and all fiction IS a minus. All Fiction will still be able to bring Medaka back cus All Fiction will still be there (won't be erased) erasing the cause of death.

Anyway for a REALLY detailed info on all fiction just check this link here, some ppl have already agreed to it don't bother with anything just read the resurrection and physical erasure part.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Firephoenixearl/All_Fictio
 
Firephoenixearl said:
@Iapitus It does erase events that lead to his death, that's why he comes back, he has no other means of coming back, he just makes whatever killed him "nothing" or "never happened", FV "never did" bring the 2 Medaka's together, she has no reason to be brought back.
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show me an example of this being the case. While you are correct that he makes it so that he never died, its not to that extent. At best, it would be that the 2 Kumagawa are standing there, but it has never shown to change location based on it
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
show me an example of this being the case. While you are correct that he makes it so that he never died, its not to that extent. At best, it would be that the 2 Kumagawa are standing there, but it has never shown to change location based on it
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Why do you think Kumagawa can come back? Just read the link i sent and it will all make sense. It's impossible for Kumagawa to come back without sending the other one back. Because to come back like that he would have to erase the fact that "if the 2 kumagawa's connect they will be erased", which would have a worse result, if he erases that FV's gotta deal with 2 Medaka's at once. It's a case like this he can erase either what i said above or "the fact that the 2 Medaka's connected", he can't erase part of the action and will therefore erase the action fully.
 
I did read it. and when i get the time I'll write out some of the things that need to be revised. Good Job over all tho

Yes it is, just like when he undoes that he get's killed by people, he doesn't undo that he ever fought them, he just undoes the imediate action. Him undoing that he got stabbed doesn't mean that someone can't go and stab him again. Its the same thing with the 2 Medaka. He can undo that the universe erased the 2 from existence, but that will not stop them from being erased again. In essence, it forces a death loop like the one is explicitly stated in story to be able to incapacitate him
 
@Iapitus First do you think that is good enough to be added to the profiles?

and 2nd, when he undoes, he will undo that he even connected with the other kuma. If you go stab him he will undo the fact that you got stabbed in the first place, same thing happens here, he will undo the fact that he connected with the other kuma, since he can't erase mid actions, he will just undo the fact that kuma was brought here. When she revives she will just be anrgier than ever and stomp FV. FV has no way to kill Medaka so it's an absolute stomp.
 
I think you missed this. Funny Valentine pulling them into another universe is not what erases them from existence, that is a different action. But because they are in the same universe, them being close together that causes them to be erased. To use your diagram type:

1) Valentine goes to another universe -> 2) he gets another Medaka -> 3) He sends Alt Medaka over to main universe -> 4) The 2 Medaka Meet and are close -> 5) The Universe freaks out -> 6) They get menger sponged out of existence

When All Fiction undoes there death, it will be action 5 that gets undone. There is no "mid action" in this case. But since they are still together they get erased again. It is like this, When AF undoes someone shooting Kuma, then the gun will have the bullet in it and be ready to be fired, but that does not mean the person will not immediately shoot Kuma again. In this case, it is like Medaka being perpetually revived only to be immediately killed by the universe after the revival, because the other Medaka will also have automatically revived herself with AF. Does that make sense?
 
What's so hard to understand? She's not incapable of using All Fiction while Funny paradoxes her, she has the ability to use it at any time during the process. It's her decision to not use it based off lack of knowledge and foresight that gets her successfully ereased. She can reverse the actions leading up to her death, not removal from existance. There's no more All Fiction to bring herself back.

1) Valentine sends her to the other universe -> 2) The two Medeka's meet -> 3) They are immediately thrown towards each other -> 4) Both of them get erased from existance.

So no matter what, once he successfully pulls off a paradox, she and All Fiction are gone forever, with no ability to change the steps leading up to her death.

And yes, the characters are obliterated out of existance in Jojo. They aren't just killed.
 
@Iap and @Thesolidsnakex

First of all @Thesolidsnakex, All Fiction won't be erased, it's a minus. Medaka will be erased, All Fiction still exists, now that you know that let's go further.

Now on to the main point with both of you, what you are doing is a bit wrong and it's about equivalen to this:

Point 1) The man brings his finger in 2) The trigger is pulled 3) The gun is fired 4) Kumagawa dies.

So at first look it might look like there are a lot of actions, that is not true though, it's a chain effect:

1) The man brings his finger in that causes the trigger to be pulled that causes the gun to be fired which causes the bullet to hit kumagawa 2) kills kumagawa (effect).

Kumagawa doesn't erase just the moment the bullet hit his brain and died, but erases the action that started this chain, the finger which then pulled the trigger.

This case now is:

1) Valentine sends Medaka to the other universe which caused the 2 of them to meet which caused the 2 being thrown at each-other 2) Both Medaka's get sponged (effect)

Counting them as separate actions is like counting the trigger being pulled and the gun being fired as 2 different actions, chain effects are erased as a set. Maybe i should add that too on to the blog.
 
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