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MCU Phase 4 General Discussion Thread

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Just finished Hawkeye, pretty good series. It’s probably my second favorite of the Disney+ shows, with Loki being the first.

It seems like Kate is a 9-C with 9-B dura, since she’s taken hits from Yelena, Maya and Fisk but hasn’t really shown that she’s comparable to them in any way.
 
Watched NWH, it was absolutely fantastic. I was honestly a bit worried about it but it went way beyond my expectations, definitely the best Phase 4 movie so far and one of the best MCU movies in general imo.

Also watched Hawkeye episode 6, really enjoyed it and thought Kate and Hawkeyes relationship is really strong. The action was relaly enjoyable as well, that End Credit scene was uh… not great lol.

I really hope they didnt kill Kingpin, I highly doubt they did since well we didnt see it and you can never trust that a character dies like that unless you see the body.

Overall Hawkeye was honestly one of my favourite shows so far, I thought the more down to Earth feel of it was really nice.
 
Holy shit Kingpin’s a beast. Dude shrugged off getting hit by a car like it was nothing. He even got shot and lived lol. Glad Jack turned out good in the end. Kazi actually caught one of Hawkeye’s arrows wow. I also liked the larp guys getting in on the action at the end. Overall, this was a great finale with lots of action.
 
Realized something while thinking about NWH again. In their first fight, you see that Goblin casually brutalize MCU Peter with his punches, to the point he ragdolls him on several floors with ease and Peter isn't a match for him. But at the end of the movie, when Peter is enraged, you see that he leads the fight, not only because he doesn't restrain himself anymore but also because he's a superior fighter in terms of skills, wich is logical since he had to fight aliens in addition of mere humans whereas Goblin mostly terrorizes random citizens for fun. So basically, Goblin is physically stronger but Peter isn't that much weaker than him and is superior in terms of skills
 
A Collider interview came out seems to give some interesting notes on canon (Contains spoilers for Hawkeye episode 6) that can be found here


Collider: Returning as Kingpin, did you consider it a different iteration of the character with a different backstory or do you look at it as a continuation of the Wilson Fisk that we already know?

VINCENT D'ONOFRIO: I think it's definitely a continuation, like there's no difference to me. There's the physical strength that's different. The fact that he can take more violent abuse, physical abuse is different, but it's very clear with the writers and the producers and the directors that I'm continuing the same man that was in the series a few years ago, in Daredevil. His emotional life, he operates through the pain of his childhood. That's how he operates and he still does. And it doesn't matter whether he is enjoying himself or if he's having a tough time in life, whatever's going on in any scene. It's always coming through events that happened when he was a kid. And so that's the same character to me.

And I definitely knew that this was after the Blip and that he's had less power than he did and he wanted his city back for Hawkeye. And that's the way I approached it. I think in my mind — I don't know how they think about it at Marvel overall, but in my mind, I think that they connect as many dots as they can in the canon stuff and with the canon state of mind, and some dots aren't possible to connect but most are easy to connect. And I think that's what they try and do.
 
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Dinobot1996 said:
A Collider interview came out seems to give some interesting notes on canon (Contains spoilers for Hawkeye episode 6) that can be found here


Collider: Returning as Kingpin, did you consider it a different iteration of the character with a different backstory or do you look at it as a continuation of the Wilson Fisk that we already know?

VINCENT D'ONOFRIO: I think it's definitely a continuation, like there's no difference to me. There's the physical strength that's different. The fact that he can take more violent abuse, physical abuse is different, but it's very clear with the writers and the producers and the directors that I'm continuing the same man that was in the series a few years ago, in Daredevil. His emotional life, he operates through the pain of his childhood. That's how he operates and he still does. And it doesn't matter whether he is enjoying himself or if he's having a tough time in life, whatever's going on in any scene. It's always coming through events that happened when he was a kid. And so that's the same character to me.

And I definitely knew that this was after the Blip and that he's had less power than he did and he wanted his city back for Hawkeye. And that's the way I approached it. I think in my mind — I don't know how they think about it at Marvel overall, but in my mind, I think that they connect as many dots as they can in the canon stuff and with the canon state of mind, and some dots aren't possible to connect but most are easy to connect. And I think that's what they try and do.
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So basically not canon. Got it.
 
Here's what I think are the themes of each of the 2021 Marvel projects:
1. WandaVision- Five stages of grief. With every new sitcom era, Wanda enters a new stage of grief. Till she realises that she has to accept the truth and let her fancy world go.
2. The Falcon and The Winter Soldier- Power. Political power, racial power, literal power. Every character in the show wants to feel powerful on their own ground. Be it Karli who wants to make the world a better place for refugees, Zemo who wants to get the world rid of super soldiers, or Walker who wants the literal power of Captain America.
3. Loki- Loops. Loki is caught in a literal loop. He cannot grow in his life. The entire Multiverse is caught in a loop itself. The characters finally manage to get out of their loops, or do they?
4. Black Widow- Identity. Nat struggles with identity throughout her life. Her Russian past. The red in her ledger. She has to confront it once more. And get rid of it.
5. What If...?- Stories. Stories matter. Why do we love them? Because they mean to us. In this vast infinite Multiverse, everyone's story is important.
6. Shang-Chi- Balance. Shang-Chi has to balance both his mother's legacy. Katy has to balance her Eastern and Western heritages. The Yin and Yang symbolism are throughout the movie.
7. Venom: Let There Be Carnage- Acceptance and Self-acceptance. Eddie and Venom hate each other. They are part of one body, but can't get along. But in the end, they have to accept each other and themselves to defeat Carnage.
8. Eternals- Love. The Eternals protect what they love. For Sersi it's humanity. For Ikaris it's his faith in Arishem. For Gilgamesh it's Thena. For Phastos it's family. "If you love something, you fight for it".
9. Spider-Man: No Way Home- Our ability to overcome our failures. Everyone in the movie is a failure. Peter, Strange. But Peter manages to fix everything in the end, at the cost of his own. You can even say it's Marvel and Sony fixing their own mistakes with the Spider-Man franchise.
10. Hawkeye- Hero worship. He love our heroes. He want their stories to be told to us. Rogers The Musical, Larping. We need idols to look up to. Kate has Clint, Yelena has Natasha.
 
Lonkitt said:
They called me crazy, but I was right
Click to expand...

you're not tho. People are really missing the most important part of the message
they tried to avoid any plothole the best they can, but they ended up still leaving some. They named the fact that kingpin is stronger, but there's also the fact that he was pretty much out of business forever at the end of daredevil. It's a "not canon but as similar as possible" situation. Also they're probably gonna have to change the punisher actor.
 
TypeOU said:
you're not tho. People are really missing the most important part of the message
they tried to avoid any plothole the best they can, but they ended up still leaving some. They named the fact that kingpin is stronger, but there's also the fact that he was pretty much out of business forever at the end of daredevil. It's a "not canon but as similar as possible" situation. Also they're probably gonna have to change the punisher actor.
Click to expand...
Being stronger only means he gets a different key, nothing else. None of this proves him being non-canon, especially when Vincent himself says he's continuing the same character from Daredevil.
 
again, what he's saying is basically "we tried our best but we could only fit most of it". Even if 99% can fit in the mcu, the remaining 1% means that it was not the same kingpin and daredevil, only very similar ones.
 
PsychoWarper said:
Why do they have to replace the Punisher actor?
Click to expand...
Because John Bernthal wants the character to be faifthul to the original series and comics (read, an utterly violent and murderous nearly sociopathic anti-hero) and he doesn't want to be toned down, wich would be INEVITABLE in the MCU, he even outright said he would refuse to play the character in the MCU if he wasn't R-rated
 
ArkhamDC06 said:
Because the original want the character to be faifthul to the original series and comics (read, an utterly violent and murderous nearly sociopathic anti-hero) and he doesn't want to be toned down, wich would be INEVITABLE in the MCU
Click to expand...
I mean supposedly Marvel seems to be going a bit darker, given NWH and what we’ve heard of Moon Knight, Into the Multiverse and Deadpool.

I can see him being toned down when appearing in others stuff but I think his own stuff could still be violent.
 
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