MCU: Age Of CRT

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

I actually completely agree with this.

Endgame Thor's feat is 3.77 gigatons, while baseline 6-C is 4.3 gigatons.
The snap is 5 gigatons, so the difference between it and Thor's feat is pretty miniscule.

We know IW Thor is probably stronger than his Endgame self, at least a little bit, and Thanos is clearly stronger than both versions physically.
So Thanos should probably either be "At least High 7-A+" or "At least High 7-A+, likely higher/6-C (baseline, due to the difference being so miniscule and him stomping Thor)".
I'm neutral towards upscaling him to baseline 6-C as well.
I think all 3 options would be consistent with him surviving the snap (s), but still being notably harmed by them.

Iron Man would also be either "High 7-A+" or "At least High 7-A+" due to harming Thanos physically, albeit barely.

Thor obviously scales to his own feat, and probably above Thanos with Stormbreaker for obvious reasons.
So "High 7-A+, At least High 7-A+, likely higher with Stormbreaker" or something like that.

Hulk scales to base Thor, so High 7-A+ for him as well. Note that he was also manhandled by base Thanos.

I'd also like to point out that the difference between 5 gigatons and 3.77 gigatons is literally only 1.326x, so I don't think upscaling Thanos to baseline 6-C is out of the question, and it'd still be consistent with everything else.

I agree with this

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

I agree.

 

[Armorchompy]

Hulk scales to base Thor, so High 7-A+ for him as well. Note that he was also manhandled by base Thanos.

I don't have any objections with the thing as a whole, but wasn't there an author statement that the hulk and thanos are equal in strength, and that thanos just beat him up due to superior skill?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I don't have any objections with the thing as a whole, but wasn't there an author statement that the hulk and thanos are equal in strength, and that thanos just beat him up due to superior skill?

Wouldn't that contradict with Hulk being somewhat comparable to Thor?

 

[RanaProGamer]

"I mean it's like death comes to call for the Avengers. This is a nearly unbeatable force who is determined to destroy half the life in the universe to bring it to balance. He sees it as an overgrown garden that he needs to prune. As you mentioned, he is fairly invincible. He's a sort of genetic mutation who's the Genghis Khan of the universe. He's unbeatable on the battlefield, stronger than the Hulk, skin is invincible. So it's going to cost the Avengers something to defeat him."
This is what Joe Russo said in one of his interviews.
Link: https://screenrant.com/avengers-infinity-war-thanos-stronger-hulk/

 

[Qawsedf234]

But the inverse square law page says this formula: Area of explosion or impact / Surface area of person getting hit * Energy yield of explosion or impact

You're confusing different aspects of the page here. That formula is for finding the initial energy of the object if it destroys something at a distance

Example 1: Finding energy based on something destroyed within an explosion​

A ground explosion with a radius of 5 meters has exactly enough energy so when it hits a brick with an area of 0.07116953508 square meters and a volume of 0.0010692559 cubic meters, it vaporizes it. How much energy does this explosion hold?

• First we use the known value for vaporization onto the brick, which is 25700 joules per cubic centimeter. It requires 27.4798773 megajoules to vaporize said brick.
• When dealing with ground explosions, one should use a hemisphere as a basis for the explosion’s shape. The area of a hemisphere with a radius of 5 meters is 157.08 square meters
• 157.08 square meters/0.07116953508 square meters * 27.4798773 megajoules
• If we plug in these numbers, it results in 60.651501 gigajoules, or 14.496 tons of tnt, which is City Block level

The method I was doing was the method for finding durability

Example​

An omnidirectional explosion of 7 kilotons of TNT occurs, and a human 30 meters away from the epicenter endures the explosion. How high is the durability of the human?

• First, we set P = 7000 Tons of TNT, as that is the yield of said explosion.
• Second, we set the radius, or r = 30m
• Third, we find the value of I, or the intensity of the explosion at a specific distance.
• I = (7000 Tons of TNT) / (4π((30m)^2))
• This means at 30 metres away from the epicenter of the explosion, the shockwave is hitting with an intensity of I = 0.619 Tons of TNT per m^2.
• CA = 0.68 m^2 for a human.
• So I*CA = 0.619 Tons of TNT per m^2 * 0.68 m^2 = 0.42092 Tons of TNT = E.
• The character can withstand a 0.42092 Tons of TNT blast, meaning Building level durability.

Which is more or less what I used, though it is different since the attack was not an explosion.

 

[Armorchompy]

https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/avengers-infinity-war-how-thanos-beat-hulk/

“I would say that he’s just that powerful,” said Joe Russo. “You didn’t see him actively use the Power Stone in the fight. I think ultimately the way we looked at that fight and the way we talked about it with our stunt team when we were executing it was Hulk is obviously very powerful but he’s a little mindless in his fighting style. It’s aggressive. It’s pummeling. Thanos is the Genghis Khan of the universe. He’s a very skilled fighter and equally as strong. So when you put those two up against each other, the more skilled fighter is going to win. Which is why Hulk has a moment where he overpowers Thanos, but ultimately Thanos is smarter.”

This interview came out after IW's release, while the other one came out before it

Wouldn't that contradict with Hulk being somewhat comparable to Thor?

I mean, the Hulk's definitely physically stronger, but Thor's just a lot more skilled. And it's not like Thanos can downright shrug off Thor's blows or anything, he's just a whole lot stronger and possibly more skilled so he stomps him anyway.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Hey, Qawsed, since your here, what's your thoughts on Uchicha Slayer's suggestion for the tiering??? We need some staff input about it

Endgame Thor's feat is 3.77 gigatons, while baseline 6-C is 4.3 gigatons.
The snap is 5 gigatons, so the difference between it and Thor's feat is pretty miniscule.

We know IW Thor is probably stronger than his Endgame self, at least a little bit, and Thanos is clearly stronger than both versions physically.
So Thanos should probably either be "At least High 7-A+" or "At least High 7-A+, likely higher/6-C (baseline, due to the difference being so miniscule and him stomping Thor)".
I'm neutral towards upscaling him to baseline 6-C as well.
I think all 3 options would be consistent with him surviving the snap (s), but still being notably harmed by them.

Iron Man would also be either "High 7-A+" or "At least High 7-A+" due to harming Thanos physically, albeit barely.

Thor obviously scales to his own feat, and probably above Thanos with Stormbreaker for obvious reasons.
So "High 7-A+, At least High 7-A+, likely higher with Stormbreaker" or something like that.

Hulk scales to base Thor, so High 7-A+ for him as well. Note that he was also manhandled by base Thanos.

I'd also like to point out that the difference between 5 gigatons and 3.77 gigatons is literally only 1.326x, so I don't think upscaling Thanos to baseline 6-C is out of the question, and it'd still be consistent with everything else.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I'm fine with the suggestion.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I mean, the Hulk's definitely physically stronger, but Thor's just a lot more skilled. And it's not like Thanos can downright shrug off Thor's blows or anything, he's just a whole lot stronger and possibly more skilled so he stomps him anyway.

Tbh I'm not so sure.



I mean, at the beginning of the scene we see Thor bloodied and battered, while Thanos isn't even sweating or showing any signs of struggle which to me implies a stomp occurred.

At 0:42, we even see Thanos physically overpowering the Hulk straight up, so idk.

I think Thanos was shown to be superior in both skill and strength.

 

[Armorchompy]

0:42 is actually a Krav Maga technique (Two-Handed Pluck) to get out of that kinda hold, actually! Thanos has a lot of Krav Maga in his fighting style, it really fits his usage of both strength and skill.

As for Thor being bloodied and battered, we don't actually know if Thanos didn't use the stones against him, right? Or if he had the help of the black order. Besides, being able to hurt someone doesn't necessarily mean drawing blood- the Hulk never bleeds in his fight against Thor in Ragnarok, but you wouldn't argue Thor isn't hurting him, right?

 

[KLOL506]

You're confusing different aspects of the page here. That formula is for finding the initial energy of the object if it destroys something at a distance

The method I was doing was the method for finding durability

Which is more or less what I used, though it is different since the attack was not an explosion.

Yeah I know, I figured it out waaaaaaay later after M3X corrected me regarding that. You can ignore it now.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Thanos is probably a bit but not overwhelmingly stronger than Hulk.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

I'm fine with the suggestion.

Well, we got 1 staff member agreeing with the tiering suggestions, we need a few more staff though to give input

 

[Armorchompy]

Thanos is probably a bit but not overwhelmingly stronger than Hulk.

Maybe but you can do that technique to someone as strong or even slightly stronger than you, it relies on the human body's muscles not being able to counter that kind of twist to the wrists- basically you're able to output more force with your hands, using the entire arm to twist off the opponent's hands off your neck, as the only muscles useful for counteracting that are those on the elbow.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Tbh I'm not so sure.



I mean, at the beginning of the scene we see Thor bloodied and battered, while Thanos isn't even sweating or showing any signs of struggle which to me implies a stomp occurred.

At 0:42, we even see Thanos physically overpowering the Hulk straight up, so idk.

I think Thanos was shown to be superior in both skill and strength.

Another thing is Thanos stomped Thor physically, who is physically comparable to the hulk as shown in ragnarok

 

[Armorchompy]

Another thing is Thanos stomped Thor physically, who is physically comparable to the hulk as shown in ragnarok

I wouldn't quite say comparable, definitely strong enough to hurt him but if they were similar in strength Thor would stomp cause he fights like a trained warrior and not a clumsy brute.

 

[RanaProGamer]

I mean I guess we could say that they are all at the very least somewhat relative to each other. With Thanos still being stronger than Thor and Hulk.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I mean I guess we could say that they are all at the very least somewhat relative to each other. With Thanos still being stronger than Thor and Hulk.

Due to how small of a tier High 7-A is, they'll be very close to each other regardless of the scaling chain.

 

[Armorchompy]

I still don't agree when we have a statement that the Hulk and Thanos are equal and the only thing countering it being Thanos stomping Thor (which he could even if equal to the Hulk just due to skill, and possibly the help of the Gauntlet and his army)

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I still don't agree when we have a statement that the Hulk and Thanos are equal and the only thing countering it being Thanos stomping Thor (which he could even if equal to the Hulk just due to skill, and possibly the help of the Gauntlet and his army)

I'm a bit confused about something.

Let's go with Hulk being stronger than Thor physically (at least a little bit). Why would Thanos use the Power stone or utilize his army's help against a weaker opponent, when he showed the ability and willingness to neutralize a supposedly stronger opponent in seconds using nothing but CQC?

To me that would imply that Thor is stronger than Hulk (which we know probably isn't the case) or that Thanos just beat up Thor much like the Hulk.

I think the latter is the safer assumption imo.

 

[Qawsedf234]

that Thanos just beat up Thor much like the Hulk.

Probably just that considering we know what happened in Endgame

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Probably just that considering we know what happened in Endgame

Great point. I agree.

 

[Armorchompy]

I'm a bit confused about something.

Let's go with Hulk being stronger than Thor physically (at least a little bit). Why would Thanos use the Power stone or utilize his army's help against a weaker opponent, when he showed the ability and willingness to neutralize a supposedly stronger opponent in seconds using nothing but CQC?

To me that would imply that Thor is stronger than Hulk (which we know probably isn't the case) or that Thanos just beat up Thor much like the Hulk.

I think the latter is the safer assumption imo.

I mean, when he fought the Hulk there was no other threat and he didn't use the stones cause he wanted to have fun, when against Thor there were a lot of potentially armed Asgardians defending themselves, of course they're not much of a threat to him but it's still a different situation. Besides, I'm not arguing he necessarily did use them, I'm just saying that's another possibility.

Probably just that considering we know what happened in Endgame

I mean, that seems like Thanos is outskilling him at first, then using his superior strength, but considering Thor does manage to put up a good resistance (even if he's losing) in the struggle at the end I think that kinda supports my claim of Thor < Hulk = Thanos, consider that if Thor was actually the same strength as Hulk he'd stomp him in a fight due to skill, and if that wasn't the case, and Thanos was stronger than the Hulk, I don't think Thor would be able to resist like that (OFC LS and AP are separate but the MCU does seem to treat them as the same thing)

 

[Qawsedf234]

Thor < Hulk = Thanos isn't that farfetched imo.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I don't think the "outskilling" argument works that well for Thor imo because Thor is also an extremely skilled warrior with hundreds of years of combat experience.
That whole encounter was simply Thanos ragdolling Thor and pummeling him. I'm not saying Thanos is like a hundred times stronger or anything, but IMHO there's a clear strength difference between them.

 

[Armorchompy]

I don't think the "outskilling" argument works that well for Thor imo because Thor is also an extremely skilled warrior with hundreds of years of combat experience.
That whole encounter was simply Thanos ragdolling Thor and pummeling him. I'm not saying Thanos is like a hundred times stronger or anything, but IMHO there's a clear strength difference between them.

I mean, I did say Thanos is stronger. But you can also clearly see him anticipating and deflecting Thor's attacks before predicting a punch and interrupting it by grabbing and hitting him, which is outskilling in my book. It's definitely not a massive skill gap- I wouldn't even say there is one, you can outskill someone with skill roughly equal to yours, it's not like olympic fencing matches end in draws 100% of the times, all I'm saying is I definitely think fighting ability had a part in the fight, just as much as strength did.

 

[KLOL506]

IMHO Captain Marvel should scale above Thanos seeing how she completely curbstomped him to the ground and was visibly unaffected by Thanos headbutting her.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I'm not saying Thanos is a brute, he is obviously extremely skilled, and honestly an argument could be made for him being the most skilled in the verse so far.

My point is that Thor was thrown around, ragdolled, and beaten to a pulp which shouldn't be possible if they're close in power, especially when you consider that the skill gap is small to nonexistent.

 

[Armorchompy]

That makes sense (Cap Marvel), I'm neutral towards it though. Does anyone have a clip?

 

[Armorchompy]

I'm not saying Thanos is a brute, he is obviously extremely skilled, and honestly an argument could be made for him being the most skilled in the verse so far.

My point is that Thor was thrown around, ragdolled, and beaten to a pulp which shouldn't be possible if they're close in power, especially when you consider that the skill gap is small to nonexistent.

Thor isn't much heavier than a normal dude, and Thanos did manage to grab him when his guard was off- of course he definitely shows superior power afterwards when he pummels him, but Thor is in a positional disadvantage there, it wouldn't take too much more strength to keep him there. They're kinda close in power, but as Thanos struggling to overpowering him right after (though being successful at doing that) shows, they aren't that much apart, and this Thor is apparently a bit stronger than IW Thor, and a lot stronger than IW Thor without Stormbreaker. I just don't see anything that contrasts IW Thor < Hulk = Thor here

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

this Thor is apparently a bit stronger than IW Thor, and a lot stronger than IW Thor without Stormbreaker.

I don't remember this. Could you please link me where that was stated? I remember hearing about it being stated in an interview, but I'm not sure which one.

 

[Armorchompy]

I don't remember this. Could you please link me where that was stated? I remember hearing about it being stated in an interview, but I'm not sure which one.

I saw this in this thread lol, no idea where it's from. Personally it doesn't make any sense to me, unless in the MCU playing Fortnite and drinking beer makes you stronger. But either way, I don't think it's controversial that Thor with Stormbreaker > Thor without Stormbreaker, and that's probably more important to my argument

 

[Qawsedf234]

I don't remember this. Could you please link me where that was stated? I remember hearing about it being stated in an interview, but I'm not sure which one.

Q: Was Thor weaker in Endgame's final fight than in the end of Infinity War or did noticing he was still worthy return him to normal?

Anthony: The difficult road that Thor's traveled ultimately gave him strength. He was stronger than ever by the end of Endgame.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I saw this in this thread lol, no idea where it's from. Personally it doesn't make any sense to me, unless in the MCU playing Fortnite and drinking beer makes you stronger. But either way, I don't think it's controversial that Thor with Stormbreaker > Thor without Stormbreaker, and that's probably more important to my argument

Yeah, okay good. I agree that Endgame Thor being stronger than IW Thor makes absolutely no sense lol. I also obviously agree that Stormbreaker Thor is stronger than Thor without it.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Well, shit.....

 

[LordTracer]

Wasn’t Stormbreaker specifically created for the purpose of countering the Infinity Gems? (I haven’t seen IW in a while so I don’t remember that well lol). If it was, then Endgame Thor being stronger than IW Thor isn’t that out of the question.

 

[Armorchompy]

Well, shit.....

Thanos' one mistake was not playing Fortnite for five years to become stronger

Wasn’t Stormbreaker specifically created for the purpose of countering the Infinity Gems? (I haven’t seen IW in a while so I don’t remember that well lol). If it was, then Endgame Thor being stronger than IW Thor isn’t that out of the question.

It kinda was (It was mostly just a really strong weapon, it doesn't have any abilities meant to beat the Gauntlet), but IW Thor also does have Stormbreaker

 

[LordTracer]

The reason I asked was because if Stormbreaker’s purpose was to counter the Gems, then IW Thor overpowering a blast from the IG could just be chalked up to Stormbreaker doing what its purpose was as opposed to actual AP.

So then, Endgame Thor being stronger than IW Thor, yet still being overpowered by base Thanos, wouldn’t be contradictory.

 

[Armorchompy]

The reason I asked was because if Stormbreaker’s purpose was to counter the Gems, then IW Thor overpowering a blast from the IG could just be chalked up to Stormbreaker doing what its purpose was as opposed to actual AP.

So then, Endgame Thor being stronger than IW Thor, yet still being overpowered by base Thanos, wouldn’t be contradictory.

There's no actual statement of anything of the sort yeah. But SB being stronger than a full-power Gauntlet also feels wrong. If I had to throw up a theory, it was probably just a weaker blast that Thanos thought was enough to stop Stormbreaker based on his previous fight with Thor.

And yeah there really isn't any contradiction, we just think it's weird cause he goes from an active superhero with an athletic body to an overweight, out of shape man who's spent the last five years being depressed.