MASSIVE Warcraft Revision

[Udlmaster]

I'll add to this since I'm a massive Nerd when it comes to WoW and has been trying to say these things for a While. I believe Murmur is around Planetary to High-Dwarf Star level at max (If you wank maybe High-Star level) as only his bored yawn turned the planet to dust meaning that he obviously has massively higher power. Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden have been confirmed to be Planet Busters as it literally stats that when the Draenei left the Planet, Kil'Jaeden would obliterate the Planet, he's also comparable to Sargeras as he thought he could Overthrow Sargeras during the Burning Crusade which makes him AT LEAST Planetary if we go with Sargeras being a Galaxy Buster. Also going further with that the Void Beings are Planetary like Dimensious who was stated to not only destroy Karesh (The Homeworld of the Etherials) but destroy a Naaru with it. Does this make the Naaru Planetary? No. Pfft, hell no. Prime Naaru? Maybe? But regular is nowhere near Planetary, they're a bit too glass cannon-like to be at that level. Also, we might want to Scale the Void Lords from Dimesious and the like, Since Dimesious was stated to be "The Faintest of an echo of an echo" we can at least put them above Planet level, going on further on how Sargeras was terrified by them and their mere existence puts them around his level, casually. And going further (If you really want to wank 'em a little.) Because they cannot form in the Nether (Which is bare minimum 12th dimensional as it transcends the multiverse) they'd be around High 1-C but seriously, that would be massive wank. Medivh can be scaled from Deathwing where it was Stated Deathwing was afraid of going near Karazhan because of Medivh putting Medivh at least Multi-Continental.

 

[Anderson2003]

Im currently debating for Deathwing to be 5-B as well and Medivh could possibly represent Sargeras. Actual Medivh was killed by Lothar, Khadgar and Garona, so I dont think he could beat DW.

 

[Myriadofmemes]

Also while I'm at it I might as well address some of your other wanks.

"Trall inflicts damage on Archimonde"

A completely subjective statement. As far as you're concerned this is the first time Archimonde is feeling anything in hundreds if not thousands of years. He could have made a slight split on one of his nails, it might have felt like a mosquito bite, his statement is completely subjective as we have nothing to scale it to. Archimonde then simply notes that he's felt anything in who knows how long. Unless you can provide credible proof that it dealt any meaningful damage than it might as well not have happened at all.

"Deathwing was sleeping"

How exactly are you imaging this? He was literally being catatonic when he suddenly stood up and hit his head on a rock and it caused the Shattering? That he opened his eyes and it caused the Shattering? You can't seriously be thinking that, right? The statement from Metzen implies that he woke up, he stood up and he used his powers to LITERALLY ( the word is used after "awoke" - AFTER ) cause an event that appears to be like a volcanic erruption leading to his exodus from Deepholm.

Tell me you are aware that the Cataclysm cinematic is occuring IN DEEPHOLM, correct? You can see him convulsing in pain while the cultists are reforging his armor. You can view it happening right here.

 

[Anderson2003]

Thrall actually did hurt Archimonde. It isn't necessarily any damage, but Archimonde confirms this. It could just mean it caused no damage but was enough to hurt him, or just a supreme minor damage. Thing is: Archimonde does say Thrall hurt him and this doesn't mean Thrall could bypass Archimonde's durability. It is already quite a feat, even then, considering Thrall's power and Archimonde's in comparison. I never meant that Thrall's attack is on Archimonde's level, anyone who says that is crazy.

I'm pretty sure one meant this sarcastically or not completely serious, Deathwing was actually recovering from his wounds, and when he was done doing so and was amped, he decided to break the Dimensional Walls from the Elemental Plane to Azeroth, so he broke into another dimension, causing what happened to Azeroth in a undirect fashion. Also, did I even say that? I don't think so.

Its not wanking, its just lack of interpretation, my boy.

 

[AntorusTheBurningThrone]

Ah, so what you are saying is Arthas has 5-B feats.
Can you give me some?

EDIT: Drakes where never sated to be 5-B, or even approaching that, so being vastly superior to human Arthas is still not 5-B. Defeating all the heroes is impressive, but we still don't know if the weakened Kil-Jaeden was even comprable to his full form.

I said this once, i'll say it again: Arthas killed us before we gained all of these Titan Trinkets, Legendary Cloak/Rings and shit. This was also WAY before we gained the Artifacts, defeated Deathwing, gained the Aspects might, and defeated people like Archimonde, the Sha, 50% of Lei'shen, and more.

Now, we're at the ranks of fighting a Titan. How does that feel? ******, isn't it?

 

[AntorusTheBurningThrone]

Also, we may have help during the Pantheon against this guy, but...we're still doing "most" of the work.

 

[Anderson2003]

Yeah, but even then, we had killed and fought a weakened Kil'Jaeden, Malygos, a dragon aspect and other huge powerhouses. Its not like that feat was any lowshowing for the next 3 expansions.

And mind you, Arthas did so while as weakened as it gets.

 

[MasterOfArda]

So, your against 5-B Arthas?

 

[Myriadofmemes]

Oh right, you were being sarcastic. How did I miss that.

High Tiers needing prep to do a 6-A feat? What are you, insane? Mid-High Tiers from WoW (Deathwing) casually, through waking up, reshaped the surface of the world and ****** it up causing something known as the Cataclysm. What would that guy do while serious and not waking up, I wonder?
him waking up BROKE THE DIMENSIONAL WALLS BETWEEN AZEROTH AND THE ELEMENTAL PLANE. He did so by waking up
Sarcasm, right... in a content revesion thread.

Thrall could bypass Archimonde's durability.

Are you still chewing dura negation? That's not what meant. I meant that his Chain Lighting hit Archi head one against his full Dura and it did next to nothing.

So Thrall getting a Planet,Moon,Continental scaling off of it is simply unwarranted.

 

[Anderson2003]

Yes, I know about the Thrall point, everyone has made it, its kinda logical. Also, I just said it DOESN'T mean Thrall can bypass his durability. I just said that even hurting him without causing damage is still quite a feat. And we can't properly scale him using said feat, so yeah, there is no good reason to touch it up again and again. I also don't remember saying that Thrall negates durability, otherwise he would have beaten Archimonde and all.

Also, yeah, I did so sarcastically. It was a mistake on my stand here, so I apologize for that. During the "Mid" section of this thread I was getting a bit tilted mostly and said so sarcastically/jokingly such as "Arthas chopped Illidan's dick" comments. I apologize for my lack of seriousness during said comments. It was not correct of me.

 

[AntorusTheBurningThrone]

Yeah, but even then, we had killed and fought a weakened Kil'Jaeden, Malygos, a dragon aspect and other huge powerhouses. Its not like that feat was any lowshowing for the next 3 expansions.
And mind you, Arthas did so while as weakened as it gets.

We never killed a weakened Kil'jaeden. All we did was push him back through the Sunwell.

 

[AntorusTheBurningThrone]

Can we just make an Argus bio, and update the Sargeras one? Please?

 

[Anderson2003]

We defeated him, Antorus. We beat him down into the Sunwell and "cancelled" his complete summoning.

Also, you're quite obsessed with Argus, huh?

 

[Antvasima]

This thread is way too incoherent and disorganised to lead anywhere.

I am the only staff member who even seems to give it a try, but I find it very hard to follow, and have the impression that there are some fannish attempts to exaggerate statistics going on, that drown out all attempts for reasonability through sheer relentless intensity.

I need some matter-of-fact summaries to evaluate from the more unbiased participants.

 

[AntorusTheBurningThrone]

This thread is way too incoherent and disorganised to lead anywhere.
I am the only staff member who even seems to give it a try, but I find it very hard to follow, and have the impression that there are some fannish attempts to exaggerate statistics going on, that drown out all attempts for reasonability through sheer relentless intensity.

I need some matter-of-fact summaries to evaluate from the more unbiased participants.

Well, I suggest you listen to the ones using Chronicles lore (AKA, Me and MasterofArda)

Why? Well, cause the Chronicles are both Canon, and they're supposed to take away much of what the new lore's saying.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Can you give a summary of what needs to be changed and why?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Antorus

And both of us have asked all three of you to consolidate your points in a blog or at least a basic summary and failed to do so.

We don't have the time to scan through all of this information ourselves. If you're the ones requesting the upgrade, you have to do the work to provide proper, clear reasoning.

 

[Antvasima]

Agreed.

 

[Udlmaster]

Okay, I'll Summerise since I've got around 3% of what they're arguing about:

Murmur At Least 5-A, destroys Planets with Whispers, Maybe 4-C.

Kil'Jaeden Possibly 5-B was stated to destroy Planets the Draenei had been on.

Archimode Possibly 5-C should be comparable to Kil'Jaeden

Thrall Possibly 6-C, hurt Archimode, At least 6-A with Dragon Soul, capable of severely harming Deathwing

Deathwing Possibly 6-A damaged the entire world by Leaving Deepholme which is at the centre of the world, his cataclysm is still felt today, Stated that if he succeeded in another Cataclysm, the Planet would be destroyed.

Yogg-Saron At least High 6-A Superior to Deathwing, Controlled the second largest part of the Planet pre-sundering.

C'thun Possibly High 6-A Comparable to Yogg-Saron.

N'zoth Possibly 6-A, stated to be the weakest of the four Old Gods, should be comparable to the Other Old Gods.

Y'Shaarj At least High 6-A, ruled over the largest part of the world pre-sundering, was stated to be the strongest of all four of the Old Gods.

The Four elemental lords should be moved to 6-A, as their influence is everywhere on Azeroth.

Arthas should be At least 6-A as well, Casually toyed with the Heroes of Azeroth and proceeded to one shot them all while severely weakened.

 

[Anderson2003]

I`ll summerise what I have been debating since the beginning of this (Also, Im attempting my best to remain unbiased and I think I haven't put any characters above others here for simple preference, otherwise Arthas and Illidan would be 3-A).

Murmur: Unknow, Possibly 5-B (The Codex of Blood mentions that Murmur destroyed worlds with simple words, but the same Codex that gives us information on Murmur seems to use a lot of hyperbole and we truly don't know who wrote it, so its possible that Murmur could be lower. There is no reason, however, for Murmur to be above 5-B).

Dimensius: Possibly 5-B (Destroyed entire worlds when he wished to do so, could open pathways to the Void and the Twisting Nether (which are described as "the astral plane between worlds" and "realms outside the borders of reality") and only the massive power of the sacrifice of a naaru managed to stop him from destroying a world).

Archimonde & Kil'Jaeden: At least 5-B, likely higher (Both are nearly identical in power. Both are superior to the unnamed Eredar, are the strongest Eredar along with Velen (the Strongest Eredar are mentioned to destroy planets with ease) and are superior to beings such as Dimensius who are possibly 5-B).

Thrall, Jaina, Death Knight/Paladin Arthas, others: 6-C (Mostly only show feats on the 6-C range in comparison to beings such as Gul'Dan who could lift islands)

Deathwing: At least 5-B (Similar to Archimonde in feats. Broke the Dimensional Walls between Azeroth and the Elemental Plane which requires immense levels of power, fought with 3 Dragon Aspects at the same time when he was 10x weaker. Even with an Artifact with the power of all Aspects, we still had to weaken him for it to work).

Dragon Aspects: At least 5-B (Were created by the Pantheon to protect Azeroth, the aspects have shown to have immense power (three of them together could face Neltharion) and are obviously superior to beings such as Dimensius who are possibly 5-B)

Lich King Arthas: At least 5-B (Was powered by Kil'Jaeden in the first place, however his power grew so much that he went out of Kil'Jaeden'scontrol and he only got stronger ever since. Even after massively weakened (we used many, MANY resources to get Arthas as weakened as it got, such as destroying his heart), he still toyed with the heroes and oneshot them when serious (the heroes have shown to be able to defeat/kill beings such as a weakened Kil'Jaeden and Dragon Aspects).

Old Gods: At least 5-B (Should be far above beings such as Lich King Arthas, the Dragon Aspects, Deathwing, Dimensius and other Planet level beings), probably much higher (Have fought the titan-forged, who were created by the Pantheon themselves to banish the threat that was the Old Gods).

 

[Udlmaster]

I'd put the Old Gods at 5-A since Aman'Thul was so scared of Y'sh's damage to the Planet that he obliterated him (By picking him)

 

[Anderson2003]

It is possible, but considering Aman'thul is far above any Old God and to be 5-A you have to destroy planets at a Gas Giant level, it isn't sustained (even though he could be above 5-B due to the reasons I mentioned).

 

[Udlmaster]

Thought you might be right.

 

[Anderson2003]

I'll take that as an agreement, in which case, thank you.

I think that the Heroes defeating a weakened Kil'Jaeden is one of the most important feats in regards to Deathwing and Arthas and those near them since we dont really know where Kil'Jaeden is at the 5-B range, and considering one of the greatest sorcerers of Azeroth (Kael'thas) was the one that summoned him with a massively powerful magical artifact (Scepter of Sargeras), he shouldn't be absurdly weakened, such as 1000x weaker. So it is quite likely that the Kil'Jaeden we fought was still 5-B, and we all know what happened to heroes even stronger than those that did such feat.

 

[Antvasima]

I would prefer if somebody other than Anderson2003 writes a summary.

 

[Anderson2003]

Is it just because its me or due to having other opinions? Because while this was suggested on this thread, I was never biased here, even though I did lose my chill and didn't act accordingly for the first time in the Wikia (or so I believe). I apologize once again for that, even if it was brief.

 

[Antvasima]

It is because I have the impression that you drown out all other discussion with sheer relentless unreasonable fannish bias and intensity. This thread likely won't lead to any results whatsoever as long as you keep contributing to it.

 

[Anderson2003]

I wouldn't say I drown them. I just answer them, such as Uldmaster's comment. He mentioned he thought the Old Gods could be 5-A and I responded why that doesn't seem to be the case. I did the same to all those that debated here. I do understand, however.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I am in a bad mood, so maybe I exaggerated, but nevertheless, you have made a lot of long posts, not seemed to have budged an inch, and there is a risk that other, apparently less biased, contributors risk to just throw up their hands in the air and leave because it seems pointless to argue with you.

 

[Anderson2003]

I wasn't biased once in this thread, Ant. In fact, the two examples that were listed have already been explained in a post of mine, shortly up above.

Such conduct would be their lack of patience, really. Although my posts sometimes contain needless length (thank you for pointing it out), I do take valid points forward, such as Murmur not scaling to others, Mongrethod not being 5-B and others. I move inches when they make valid points, otherwise, I respond accordingly. I can try to be less "harsh" on the responses though. Any suggestions?

 

[MasterOfArda]

Speaking of Murmur, would it not be better to rank him as "At least High 6-A, possibly 5-B"

If destroying the world is lifewiping, it would be High 6-A, if destroying the world is actual destrucion, it would be 5-B.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, let's wait to see if Bepo, or somebody else, can write a summary.

 

[Anderson2003]

Even then, it is still weird how much of the Codex of Blood truly is true in regards to the information we have on the Warcraft world. It is a nice suggestion, though. It's certainly better than mine.

The same could be applied to Dimensius, no?

 

[MasterOfArda]

I am pretty sure destroying a world over time is unquantifible.

 

[Antvasima]

@MasterOfArda

That is correct, yes.

 

[Anderson2003]

It is left ambiguous on how Dimensius truly did bust the planet, even if he used armies and other forces.

Also, Bepo usually posts at a different time, dont expect any summary in the following hours. But yes, we should wait.

 

[Nabard123]

Arthas probably can't even destroy a building even if he hit it multiple times how is he planet level, and destroying worlds doesn't mean destroying the planet

 

[MasterOfArda]

What?

 

[Udlmaster]

Okay, please, begone Nabard, because that's clearly trying to intentionally flame someone and you are clearly ignorant of Warcraft otherwise you'd know. But I agree with Anderson2003.

 

[Udlmaster]

Also the Dungeon guide, which is written by Blizzard states that Murmur did turn Planets into dust, not Life Wiping. Dimesious feat of destroying the world is debatable as he either Destroys the Planet instantly causing T'uure to get involved or he did it over time which allowed the Etherals to fight. The Up to date involves T'uure. We also have fought Planet Level beings like Void Gods, which are flat out STATED to be Planet Busters/ Eaters.