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MASSIVE Warcraft Revision

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Anderson2003

Anderson2003

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Nearly everything on the Warcraft pages from this Wikia needs being revised asap. Characters lack stats, keys and much more.

Anyways, lets start this up. First off, nearly all characters will be far above Planet level, since some low profile characters have planet level feats and the high tiers of WC are immensely above them. Murmur, for instance, is said to have destroyed a planet with a whisper (yet is ranked Unknown for some reason). Murmur is NOT a Elemental Lord, in fact, he is a "Primordial Essence" which means that its basically a Common Elemental based on a non-elemental factor, in Murmur's case, Sound. Ragnaros, Al'akir, Neptulon and Therazane are actual Elemental Lords considered massively more powerful in comparison, so that gives a general idea to the beginning of the scaling to the higher tier WC characters, such as Deathwing who is currently listed as Multi-Continent level.

Thrall's strongest attack managed to hurt Archimonde and this was before he acquired the Dragon Soul, other than that, Thrall is pretty much weaker than Grom Hellscream and should be at least comparable to him (Grom as a Fel Orc, of course). Grom as a Regular Orc could fight Nobundo, a shaman and that is his only feat (This was shown on Unbroken). Mannoroth should be equal or slightly inferior to Cenarius, who he deemed his rival and the druid-like being that defeated him during the WotA.


That's a start. So basically:

Nearly everyone above Murmur: Planet level or higher. We are going to need to scale Mannoroth, Thrall, Grom and Gul'Dan (since Gul'Dan easily defeated Grom twice and Grom oneshot Mannoroth twice and beat Cenarius, who could scale to other powerful beings and give them a higher rating).
 
This seems reasonable, but it would be preferable if you can provide some evidence.
 
Maybe later I will check some youtube videos and get quotes from there, we cannot expect everyone to play Warcraft to find out although I certainly recomend them, their a great fiction and series.

I was meaning to remind myself of Warcraft 3 and Frozen throne via watching walkthroughs.


The aspects have power over key concepts, we have seen the power of Deathwing but the other aspects are nearly as, if not more powerful (Nozdormu/Malygos especially) when it comes to hax and powers.
 
Alright, so we don't really know what primal essences are there is zero proof that they are weaker than elemental lords. Also Azeroth elemental lords status is relative to Azeroth. They are the strongest elementals on Azeroth not across the universe. So Murmur should be at least 5-B yes but nobody should scale to him. Also, he is not a low tier we only defeated him because he wasn't fully entered, Outland.
 
There is evidence that Murmur is inferior to Ragnaros and others, I'll WoT here when I have the time to make a massive post showcasing that.
 
I was more looking for easy to check screencaptures, quotes, or the like. It is not realistic for me or the other staff to evaluate othervise.
 
Murmur is constantly referred to as a common elemental, following this quote and his relation to others ingame.

" 'In the beginning'.... 'So far away'... such phrases cannot begin to describe this ELEMENTAL's origin [...]"

"Murmur is an elemental born when the Universe was created, about whom little is known."

And trust me, if he was a big deal, we would know, considering nobody seemed to care about Murmur being summoned, as we are sent to kill them and none of the heroes move an inch. Also, not fully entering the Outland is a inconsistent statement, as he is mentioned as well as "having been summoned by the Shadow Council, who struggle to keep him under their control". So, he could apparently have been fully summoned AND was controlled by the Shadow Council. He even appears as a regular rare enemy in WoD as "Echo of Murmur".

While on the other side, we have Ragnaros, who once controlled the entire planet as a servant of the Old Gods, battling the Titans for complete domination, easily defeated other Elemental Lords (Thunderaan), made Thrall piss his pants and "defeats" him, made armies and heroes retreat (Bronzebeard's and Madoran, Wildhammers' and Khardros) and has consistently been considered the strongest Elemental Lord so far, even being considered a great ally as one of Deathwing's liutenants and even when he was supposedly completely killed by being defeated in his own realm, it is stated that the power he held will never truly be vanquished. In fact, Ragnaros himself was stated to be "regaining his strength" to take Azeroth as his own again, so we can also say Ragnaros is weakened as well.

Murmur is a final boss of the Shadow Labyrinth with a set level 72 in a level 70 raid of BC.

Ragnaros is a ?? level boss in Molten Core and Firelands, incredibly huge raids with great importance, especially Molten Core, as it was the first 40 player raid. As such, Ragnaros was the first "end game boss" of WoW.

As I mentioned it before, yes, Murmur is low level in comparison.

EDIT:

Even though it is a wikia page, read all of this: http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Elemental_Lord
 
Okay. I suppose that should be fine then. Where is it stated that Murmur can destroy a planet with a whisper?
 
On the Codex of Blood I have linked here, as well. He is also stated to be a "Destroyer of Worlds" by Grandmaster Vorpil.

I also need to find a way to scale Thrall, Grom, Illidan, DK Arthas, Jaina, Malfurion and Gul'Dan to some feat. In order of power, they should be something like this: DK Arthas > Illidan w/Skull of Gul'Dan > Malfurion > Gul'Dan > Grom > Thrall > Jaina or similar but other than Thrall's feat that basically leaves him at a Planet level, possibly millions and millions of times higher since it scales to Archimonde whos farts could kill beings like Murmur.

I should also find a feat that settles how high they are above Planet Level. Also, don't close this Ant, just apply the changes, since I plan on continuing revising WoW. There is still a LOT to be checked.
 
Good job Anderson, wish I could do more but I am exhausted after work and my books are on a fairly old E-reader, it would take forevor going through them to find anything useful.
 
OH, THAT. Nice reminding me.

Ant, there are books of Warcraft's story. They are mostly official, but their canonicity is doubtful, since they contradict most of the information given and sustained by the games. Should we use these books as semi-canon, ignore them completely or take them as retcons to the story? I suggest the first option.
 
It'd be better if you could compile these feats and reasons for scaling on a blog, since doing this piecemeal isn't going to be very helpful.
 
"Murmur is constantly referred to as a common elemental, following this quote and his relation to others ingame"

Murmur is not a low tier again. We don't know what he is. And even if he is just a common elemental he can still be stronger than Azeroth's elemental lords. because again their status is relative to Azeroth.

And trust me, if he was a big deal, we would know, considering nobody seemed to care about Murmur being summoned, as we are sent to kill them and none of the heroes move an inch. Also, not fully entering the Outland is a inconsistent statement, as he is mentioned as well as "having been summoned by the Shadow Council, who struggle to keep him under their control". So, he could apparently have been fully summoned AND was controlled by the Shadow Council

You know we spend half of BC killing Vashj and Illidan and his horde who weren't really our enemies so our heroes not carry about him doesn't mean anything. Also, he wasn't fully summoned Dungeon Journal > Quest text.

"He even appears as a regular rare enemy in WoD as "Echo of Murmur".

Doesn't matter different universe. Nothing to do with the Murmur who was blowing planets.

'While on the other side, we have Ragnaros, who once controlled the entire planet as a servant of the Old Gods, battling the Titans for complete domination, easily defeated other Elemental Lords (Thunderaan)

Wrong he never controlled the entire planet. He and the other elemental lords were slaves of the old gods. And they even tried to revolt and failed miserably. He also never fought the titans. He fought the titan-forged who are millions of times weaker than the titans and he got defeated by Odyn and Tyr. Also, Thunderaan wasn't an Elemental Lord when Ragnaros defeated him. And he wasn't even a fair fight since he ambushed him with Gedon and Garr. He then tried to absorb his essence and failed so he had to split it and gave 2 pieces to Gedon and Garr.

"has consistently been considered the strongest Elemental Lord so far"

Wrong again Most violent =/= Most dangerous

it is stated that the power he held will never truly be vanquished.

No, it was stated that another elemental will take his places this guy .

Murmur is a final boss of the Shadow Labyrinth with a set level 72 in a level 70 raid of BC.

Ragnaros is a ?? level boss in Molten Core and Firelands, incredibly huge raids with great importance, especially Molten Core, as it was the first 40 player raid. As such, Ragnaros was the first "end game boss" of WoW.

Doesn't matter gameplay mechanics. If we go by that logic 4 stone cats are stronger than the lich king.
 
Hey don't joke about stone cats, their cool!

Between Bepo and Anderson I am sure we can sort out the feats of the characters. Do either of you know if the books are canon? As in, an actual source saying yay or nay. I always thought they were but I may be wrong.


Edit, this wiki page seems to think the novels are canon and may even retcon previous things from the old games. If so, I have access to some of them. War of the ancients i think is full of impressive feats, if I recall tis the one where Archimonde one shots dragons with his magic and devastates armies while fighting a vast Stag.
 
1. No, actually. Elemental Lords are mentioned as the STRONGEST ELEMENTALS IN EXISTENCE and leader of their respective branches due to that. So if he was a "common elemental", the lords would be above him by a mile. In fact, there are even "under lords" that could be considered above, but those vary in power. It's not their status that makes them stronger, it's their power. However him being a "Universal scale Elemental Lord" would possibly make him comparable, in that sense, but nothing implies that at all.

2. Why exactly? Because there is no indication of him being weakened during our fight other than that one, simple quote, The dialogue doesn't suggest it, the Quest text doesnt... I'd go with consistency above "This > That" for no reason any day. And we attack Illidan and decide to go against him because the Legion gave us reason to attack Illidan as we saw him as a threat after they attacked the forces of Azeroth and lured them into the Outlands. As Illidan was a threat to everyone, Thrall, Varian and others would have ALL the reasons to use all their firepower to take Murmur out as soon as possible if he was so worrying.

3. The elementals did conquer the whole planet and they weren't chaotic, but a newborn Titan "killed" the fifth element of Spirit causing them to become chaotic and the story proceeds. When the Old Gods arived, the elementals joined forces to face them. And they weren't "miserably" defeated. They actually held their ground but got beat in the long run due to "constant swarms of N'raqi and Aqir". This was all during Primordial Azeroth.

Other than that, there is absolutely NO REASON to believe Murmur to be Ragnaros' superior. Ragnaros' has tons of feats above him, even "besting" Thrall, who mind you, hurt Archimonde. There is no way to defend Murmur in comparison to the likes of Thrall and other heroes, unless you seriously wish to imply he could have done the same to Archimonde, in which I should probably ignore the rest of your points.

Edit. This was mentioned by a Warcraft forum member: "Murmur has been in constant combat for TWO YEARS by the time we get to him in the dungeon. Just his summoning into the world destroyed Auchindoun and created the Bone Wastes, and that was with the Shadow Council likely having appropriate protections up planning for that goal. The Codex of Blood might be overestimating his power... but probably not by much, if at all." Also, mind you, the Codex is probably full of Hyperbole. There is mention of a supreme wizard whose power had no challenges but I doubt he could beat Medivh. Murmur is considered a being with untold power but if one is to mention he'd best Kil'Jaeden I would seriously question their sanity. Not to mention Murmur has constantly been restricted, struggled against the Shadow Council and even struggled to best those that originally summoned and made him "destroy the world".

Did I mention the "weakened" thing barely matters, because Ragnaros has the same excuse? If I did, excuse me.


I seriously dont know. I usually take the source material above everything else (unless explicit retcon) and the novels don't seem to be as reliable, but then again, I only have access to the Arthas novel and I certainly dont take it as canon as it mostly doesn't make any sense in comparison to what is said again and again in WoW and Warcraft 3. If the other novels are more consistent and decent in comparison to everything else, then I guess we could take them as completely canon.

And no, DK Arthas did not face Thrall during WC3 or Frozen Throne.
 
Anderson2003 said:
1. No, actually. Elemental Lords are mentioned as the STRONGEST ELEMENTALS IN EXISTENCE and leader of their respective branches due to that. So if he was a "common elemental", the lords would be above him by a mile. In fact, there are even "under lords" that could be considered above, but those vary in power. It's not their status that makes them stronger, it's their power.
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Where exactly are they stated as the strongest elementals in existence? it is certainly not said in Chronicles a book that is written from the point of the omniscience author and not from the point of a character. In fact, Chronicles doesn't even say that Murmur is an elemental he doesn't even fit the description of elemental given there.

Anderson2003 said:
2. Why exactly? Because there is no indication of him being weakened during our fight other than that one, simple quote, The dialogue doesn't suggest it, the Quest text doesnt... I'd go with consistency above "This > That" for no reason any day. And we attack Illidan and decide to go against him because the Legion gave us reason to attack Illidan as we saw him as a threat after they attacked the forces of Azeroth and lured them into the Outlands. As Illidan was a threat to everyone, Thrall, Varian and others would have ALL the reasons to use all their firepower to take Murmur out as soon as possible if he was so worrying.
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Tell me what suggests that he is at full power when we fight him. Also We attack Illidan because we were too stupid. Read the Illidan novel and you will understand. Also, i don't know if you know but Varian wasn't even a faction leader during BC

Anderson2003 said:
Other than that, there is absolutely NO REASON to believe Murmur to be Ragnaros' superior. Ragnaros' has tons of feats above him, even "besting" Thrall, who mind you, hurt Archimonde. There is no way to defend Murmur in comparison to the likes of Thrall and other heroes, unless you seriously wish to imply he could have done the same to Archimonde, in which I should probably ignore the rest of your points.
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Ragnaros doesn't have a single feat above Murmur and he never bested Thrall he showed a vision of what would happen if they fail to stop him and Deathwing. The only one with better feats than Murmur is Sargeras. Like it or not they are the only ones who we have seen are able to planet bust. Also, Thrall hurting Archimonde should be regarded as an outlier first just because he hurt him doesn't mean he is as strong as Archimonde. A mosquito will hurt me that doesn't make it as strong as me. And just before they "fought" Thrall couldn't even brake Mannaroth armor who is a lot weaker than Archimonde.

And finally, books are more canon than the gameplay
 
1. Wowpedia mentions this twice, also pretty sure there are other mentions in WoW. I do remember hearing many many forum debaters mentioning this. If you wish to neglect this before you find a source, you can do so.

2. The fact that there but ONE mention that he was weakened and MANY others that he wasn't? There are many mentions of him being summoned and none of the summoning being rushed or incomplete. Also, he has been summoned for possibly two years, combating the Shadow Council and failing to beat them since he was summoned. So, instead of me providing proof, why dont you provide solid proof that Murmur was weakened OTHER than that quote? Since I can regard it as outlier for lack of consistency.

3. Lets go slowly... Thrall was seeking to communicate with the Elementals and failed for days. Ragnaros decided to "talk" with Thrall (this communication seems to be no ordinary communication, instead more like a Mind Battle of sorts). Ragnaros makes him immobile and shows him the vision you mentioned, which makes Thrall fall down and seem hurt/exhausted.

Hell no, Archimonde has "world destroying" statements, Deathwing is known as a "world destroyer", there are tons of "world destroying" statements in WoW. What makes these other ones below Murmur for some reason? Saying that Murmur is above Kil'Jaeden, Archimonde, Deathwing, LK at his fullest and the likes of them is madness. This nearly makes me call BS on you and just stop debating.

Thrall hurt Archimonde at the best of his game using a SPELL. And it isn't regarded as an outlier by this wikia since it is present on his page, and it shouldn't be since Thrall compares to other characters that have similar feats, such as Grom killing Cenarius and oneshotting Mannoroth. He never used his spells against Mannoroth, he only attempted to physically defeat him which was never Thrall's best attacks. And you are right, it doesn't make him as strong as Archimonde because Archimonde laughed it off. It probably counts as "grazing" Archimonde, which places him below his level, but still able to slightly damage him. If even that, as it could have caused no damage but hurt him.

4. Why the hell is that? I will give an example: Arthas vs Illidan. In WC3, Arthas beats him after slapping around for a while. Then in WoW, we learn that Illidan lost so bad and took the loss so harshly he went insane, so it was no easy blow for hin and we actually relive the battle and even though it is not easy or onesided, Arthas beats Illidan solidly. And then comes the novel mentioning Illidan only lost due to arrogance, even though that is never implied anywhere. In fact, if Illidan lost due to arrogance, he would probably understand that and not go insane because of it since it was merely his ego that got the best of him and he was the better warrior, but that doesnt happen, does it?

Also, it isn't just gameplay, gameplay is the last thing to check. We mean the INFORMATION GIVEN TO US BY THE GAME. Gameplay is Arthas baiting Uther into using his invincibility and then coming back when its done with an army to defeat Uther. Ingame Lore is Arthas killing Uther rather easily after he got the Frostmourne.

EDIT: Im not implying that Cenarius~Mannoroth = Archimonde, btw, if thats what it sounded like. Im implying that they could "hurt" him as Thrall did before being easily murdered with a stare.
 
We should probably wait with making any changes until the two of you have reached a conclusion.
 
Anderson2003 said:
1. Wowpedia mentions this twice, also pretty sure there are other mentions in WoW. I do remember hearing many many forum debaters mentioning this. If you wish to neglect this before you find a source, you can do so.
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So you have no canon source that says that they are the strongest elementals in existence. And even if it is mention in wow it shouldn't be taken seriously if the npc who said it doesn't have a knowledge on elementals outside of Azeroth which is the case most likely.

Anderson2003 said:
2. The fact that there but ONE mention that he was weakened and MANY others that he wasn't? There are many mentions of him being summoned and none of the summoning being rushed or incomplete. Also, he has been summoned for possibly two years, combating the Shadow Council and failing to beat them since he was summoned. So, instead of me providing proof, why dont you provide solid proof that Murmur was weakened OTHER than that quote? Since I can regard it as outlier for lack of consistency.
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So you want proof that Murmur was weekend alright let's look how similar his summoning was to the one done to Ragnaros that severely weakened him.

1. Both of the summonings were done without much preparation and in a moment of desperation.

2. Both Thaurissan and The Shadow Council didn't intend to summon them.Thaurissan wanted a "supernatural being". The shadow council wanted to summon a demon.

3. Both summonings caused a huge explosion that killed the summoners and wiped the surrounding area.

And finally what if Murmur was summoned for possibly 2 years do you know how much time Ragnaros spend regenerating his powers. He spends 230 years in the molten core.

Anderson2003 said:
3. Lets go slowly... Thrall was seeking to communicate with the Elementals and failed for days. Ragnaros decided to "talk" with Thrall (this communication seems to be no ordinary communication, instead more like a Mind Battle of sorts). Ragnaros makes him immobile and shows him the vision you mentioned, which makes Thrall fall down and seem hurt/exhausted.
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Headcanon.

Anderson2003 said:
Thrall hurt Archimonde at the best of his game using a SPELL. And it isn't regarded as an outlier by this wikia since it is present on his page, and it shouldn't be since Thrall compares to other characters that have similar feats, such as Grom killing Cenarius and oneshotting Mannoroth. He never used his spells against Mannoroth, he only attempted to physically defeat him which was never Thrall's best attacks. And you are right, it doesn't make him as strong as Archimonde because Archimonde laughed it off. It probably counts as "grazing" Archimonde, which places him below his level, but still able to slightly damage him. If even that, as it could have caused no damage but hurt him.
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No, it should be regarded as an outlier. Charged Doomhammer (one of the most powerful weapons in wow) > Chain lightning. And that whole thing with Archimonde being hurt by Thrall will most likely get retconned in Chronicles volume 3 that comes in March and will cover WC3. Also, Cenarius and Mannaroth aren't even close in strength to Archimonde. The strongest wild god Malorne got his neck snapped as soon as Archimonde got serious. Also, having a title "world destroyer" is not a proof that you are 5-B. Unless you have feats or statements to back it up.

Anderson2003 said:
4. Why the hell is that? I will give an example: Arthas vs Illidan. In WC3, Arthas beats him after slapping around for a while. Then in WoW, we learn that Illidan lost so bad and took the loss so harshly he went insane, so it was no easy blow for hin and we actually relive the battle and even though it is not easy or onesided, Arthas beats Illidan solidly. And then comes the novel mentioning Illidan only lost due to arrogance, even though that is never implied anywhere. In fact, if Illidan lost due to arrogance, he would probably understand that and not go insane because of it since it was merely his ego that got the best of him and he was the better warrior, but that doesnt happen, does it?
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When it comes to Blizzard lore. The newest lore trumps the old one. In general, Chronicles should be taken the most serious as they are from a point of an omniscience author and they are the newest books.
 
I think that Bepo4151 seems to make sense.
 
In my opinion, a better solution will be to get the feat done by Ragnaros shattering of Redridge mountain calced. And scale elemental lords, Aspects, Titan keepers, C'Thraxxi, Thrall, Malf, Cenarius, Illidan, the Lich king, Gul'dan and Garrosh. to that. Old gods should be upgraded to 6-A for being stronger than Azshara who could tank a supercontinent splitting explosion. Kil'jaeden and Archimonde should get downgraded to at least 6-A likely higher because being stronger than unnamed Eradar shouldn't make you 5-C IMO . Sargeras should also get downgraded to at least 4-A Because nothing suggests that he is 3-B and 4-A will match the quote given by Algalon

I have seen worlds bathed in the Makers' flames. Their denizens fading without so much as a whimper. Entire planetary systems born and razed in the time that it takes your mortal hearts to beat once.
 
Bepo was that quote in regards to Sargeras alone? Or the entire Titan pantheon? If its a combined feat its not fair to give Sargeras the whole credit.

I agree with most of your ratings however. I think Archimonde and the higher end Eredar were capable of world destruction with prep and long ritual times but I cannot recall the book/story i read that in. His fight with mallorne proves hes beyond the ancients anyway.
 
Bepo4151, Murmur's so great feat is having "Destroyed a world". So has Archimonde been stated to "destroy many worlds in such for the Eredar" and has an attack with the discription of "the attack he uses to destroy worlds" and the strongest Eredar have been stated to destroy worlds effortlessly.

Without much preparation and without intention to summon them? Shadow Council summoned him using the Codex of Blood, fully aware of what was written there and if it was done 2 years before we arrived, how could it have been any desperate? They had all the time to prep.

Headcanon? Watch the video. It is no ordinary communication, Thrall appears in front of Ragnaros and both could apparently cast spells, hence Ragnaros showing him the vision. Only if you neglect or haven't watched the video would you just say "headcanon" and laugh it off.

"Doomhammer, one of the greatest weapons in WoW". Ok, I would stop right here. This is quite laughable, actually. Twin Blades of Azzinoth, Frostmourne, Ashbringer, Gorehowl and many others literal weapons are equal if not many times superior to it and thats not counting things such as magic and the elements who Thrall himself proves are superior.

Oh hey, thats exactly what Murmur has. No actual planet busting feats. No one has those in WoW, only statements, and there is little to nothing that puts a statement above another one, except for validity, but coming from a Codex full of Hyperbole, what am I supposed to take from it?

Velen states that a casual unnamed Eredar could blow up planets, there is also mention on the strongest Eredar being able to destroy planets, Archimonde is superior to beings who have statements of destroying planets, there is mention that he was going to destroy Draenor and then this: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=182225/rain-of-chaos which is a literal attack that says "It blows up a planet". Murmur being superior to Ragnaros is even debatable, I'll give you that. Murmur not being scalable to Archimonde, Kil'Jaeden and others is absolutely laughable since they are many times above the "Planet Busting" statement Murmur has. Archimonde is the one who kills people that have statements as those without even moving.

I still doubt the books, but even in "recent" events such as Malfurion talking about Illidan's condition in relation to Arthas and replaying the battle of Arthas vs Illidan, both of which happened not that long before the release of Rise of the Lich King, they sustain the WC3 version, not the book version. But I do assume that Chronicles and others should be better and more consistent.

Sargeras is fine the way he is considering he is superior to the Pantheon and Aman'Thul, Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden have many feats that should put them at At least 5-B, likely way far higher, I only wonder why they are considered Moon level instead, the Old Gods being 6-A makes no sense considering they went to war with the Pantheon.

Scaling Ragnaros' feat would not be enough alone since he is immensely lower than the Dragon Aspects, LK and others, however it would suffice to scale to Gul'Dan, Thrall and others, I believe.
 
Read this, Bepo: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2089101-Is-Murmur-the-most-powerful-entity-we-have-ever-heard-of

There are decent comments there and some not so decent, but it should be able to at least give you more insight on Murmur.

Also, he isn't even exactly relevant enough to take into consideration, looking back. But there are still many "world destroying" statements without that. Even Ner'Zhul has one. There are other ways to settle nearly all characters into 5-B because nearly all of them got the "destroyed a world" statement.
 
I feel like I'm wasting my time here.

Murmur summoning was rushed and here is the proof https://imgur.com/a/JgVle also if you say that statements in the codex of blood are hyperbole then he will stay at unknown.

Kil'jaeden and Archimonde don't have any feat above 6-A again being stronger than someone who is 6-A by unknown margin doesn't make you 5-C or 5-B. Unless you provide a solid proof they should be downgraded.

Ner'zhul was helped by his warlock and required 3 artifacts one of which was the scepter of Sargeras and im pretty sure it still won't be planet level since a whole continent survived and chronicles explain that the destruction of Outland was a chain reaction. All Nerz'hul did was open a bunch of portals that destabilized the ley lines. And that caused the destruction of Outland. https://imgur.com/a/ChMET

And Finally, Sargeras is absolutely not fine where it is none of the Pantheon have 3-B feats or statements.
 
Also Illidan has a similar feat to the one Ner'zhul did it required souls from Auchindoun that he used as fuel and help from his mages. They also had to stay concentrated while Maiev was killing their troops or they would've failed the channeling. That is even more proof that they are not planet level.
 
There have been discussions on Sargeras before trying to downgrade him, but yet he remains there. Check "Sargeras being overhyped" for input.

I LISTED THEIR FEATS. Archimonde even has an attack that says they can planet bust. Thats as worthy as Murmur's for all I care. Other than the many statements I also listed, such as Velen's, Archimonde being stated to be able to destroy Dalaran and so on. Reread it, in fact, because Im not gonna list it again and they are many. Or better yet, read Archimonde's page again.

The Codex is mostly hyperbole. I don't doubt Murmur planet busting, but there is so much wrong with it. Everything is considered "the strongest, untouchable" and yet nothing truly applies.

It was an example, but it still holds true, no matter what Ner'Zhul recquired to do so, even someone who isn't as powerful as other beings could do so.
 
I still think that Bepo seems to make sense. This seems unreliable.
 
What seems unreliable?

Archimonde's placing is incredibly sustained by nearly everything, even taking Murmur out of the question. I mean, Archimonde is effortlessly above this guy, for instance: https://wow.gamepedia.com/Dimensius_the_All-Devouring and he destroyed a planet. WoW is full of planet busters and Archimonde is one of the greatest beings of WoW (ok, maybe not so much, but you get the idea)
 
I won't repeat again destroying worlds =/= Planet busting. And what Ner'zhul did won't scale to his Ap because he directly didn't destroy Draenor it was the destabilized Ley lines that did.
 
Anderson2003 said:
What seems unreliable?
Archimonde's placing is incredibly sustained by nearly everything, even taking Murmur out of the question. I mean, Archimonde is effortlessly above this guy, for instance: https://wow.gamepedia.com/Dimensius_the_All-Devouring and he destroyed a planet. WoW is full of planet busters and Archimonde is one of the greatest beings of WoW (ok, maybe not so much, but you get the idea)
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Again it was never stated that the planet was busted. Even wowpedia says that the current status of the planet is unknown https://wow.gamepedia.com/K'aresh
 
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