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MASSIVE Warcraft Revision

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6-A does seem reasonable for those that arent so strong, such as Jaina, Thrall, DK Arthas, Illidan and such. Them being 5-C and 5-B does seem like a bit of wank in comparison to the likes of Archimonde and KilJaeden, even if these two could be far higher.

LK Arthas, possibly Illidan with Eye of Sargeras and Deathwing should be At least 5-A for me as well, to be honest. They do seem comparable to Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden in feats and such.

Argus and as a result, Sargeras as Tier 2 doesn't seem impossible. Argus is a titan and as such, Sargeras is above him.

Also, I didnt mean that Aman'thul and the Pantheon CREATED all life in the universe and are the gods. I meant that they're purpose is creating the life on the planets and "watch over the universe", not that they caused the beginning of existence.
 
Anderson2003 said:
6-A does seem reasonable for those that arent so strong, such as Jaina, Thrall, DK Arthas, Illidan and such. Them being 5-C and 5-B does seem like a bit of wank in comparison to the likes of Archimonde and KilJaeden, even if these two could be far higher.
LK Arthas, possibly Illidan with Eye of Sargeras and Deathwing should be At least 5-A for me as well, to be honest. They do seem comparable to Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden in feats and such.

Argus and as a result, Sargeras as Tier 2 doesn't seem impossible. Argus is a titan and as such, Sargeras is above him.

Also, I didnt mean that Aman'thul and the Pantheon CREATED all life in the universe and are the gods. I meant that they're purpose is creating the life on the planets and "watch over the universe", not that they caused the beginning of existence.
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Well, to be fair now, the Titans are WoW's Gods, and Sargeras is like WoW's Satan. The Light and Void are just the Cosmic forces that created everything.


However, you're right around the rest. I can see this as a 2-A feat, if Argus' end of all things means more than just our Universe, which...likely is the case. Sargeras wants ALL of creation gone, so that it'll reset itself, hopefully without the Void flaw. However, even then, Sargeras doesn't know if the Universe (AKA, Multiverse) can re-create itself (It likely will, but he doesn't know that. No one does).
 
LK Arthas, possibly Illidan with Eye of Sargeras and Deathwing should be At least 5-A for me as well, to be honest. They do seem comparable to Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden in feats and such.

Argus and as a result, Sargeras as Tier 2 doesn't seem impossible. Argus is a titan and as such, Sargeras is above

No 5-A feats whatsoever. No reason why Arthas and Illidan should be as strong as Deathwing too. And for tier 2 Sargeras and Argus you will need evidence about the spacetime being destroyed.
 
Bepo4151 said:
LK Arthas, possibly Illidan with Eye of Sargeras and Deathwing should be At least 5-A for me as well, to be honest. They do seem comparable to Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden in feats and such.

Argus and as a result, Sargeras as Tier 2 doesn't seem impossible. Argus is a titan and as such, Sargeras is above
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No 5-A feats whatsoever. No reason why Arthas and Illidan should be as strong as Deathwing too. And for tier 2 Sargeras and Argus you will need evidence about the spacetime being destroyed.
I'm pretty sure Space-time is included for when he does his "End of all things" ability....
 
Bepo, Arthas after being weakened 10.000 times oneshotted the most powerful force on Earth, the Heroes, when he wished to fight seriously. In comparison, Deathwing was beaten by slightly stronger heroes and the Dragon Soul. Also, the Lich King's true purpose is to stop the Burning Legion and Kil'jaeden in specific, and even if it is assuming a bit, the Lich King at its full power could be comparable to him, even though there is no evidence of this claim, indeed.

And yes, the feat he mentioned could be taken as Tier 2, Bepo.
 
Anderson2003 said:
Bepo, Arthas after being weakened 10.000 times oneshotted the most powerful force on Earth, the Heroes, when he wished to fight seriously. In comparison, Deathwing was beaten by slightly stronger heroes and the Dragon Soul.
And yes, the feat he mentioned could be taken as Tier 2, Bepo.
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On Azeroth*

Also, we had no Artifacts during that time. And, the Dragon Soul is a Titan-made Artifact...
 
Anderson2003 said:
Bepo, Arthas after being weakened 10.000 times oneshotted the most powerful force on Earth, the Heroes, when he wished to fight seriously. In comparison, Deathwing was beaten by slightly stronger heroes and the Dragon Soul.
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And thats, not a proof for being equal to Deathwing or being 5-A. Also Deathwing got defeated by the Dragon Soul and the aspects channeling all of their power into it. So Deathwing >>>>>Arthas
 
Bepo4151 said:
And thats, not a proof for being equal to Deathwing or being 5-A. Also Deathwing got defeated by the Dragon Soul and the aspects channeling all of their power into it. So Deathwing >>>>>Arthas
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... Or I can just say that the Lich King is immensely more powerful than DK Arthas who is immensely more powerful than Ner'Zhul who busted a planet once (even if other factors were involved). Cuse that did happen.
 
Anderson2003 said:
Bepo4151 said:
And thats, not a proof for being equal to Deathwing or being 5-A. Also Deathwing got defeated by the Dragon Soul and the aspects channeling all of their power into it. So Deathwing >>>>>Arthas
Click to expand...
... Or I can just say that the Lich King is immensely more powerful than DK Arthas who is immensely more powerful than Ner'Zhul who busted a planet once (even if other factors were involved). Cuse that did happen.
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Actually.....

The Scepter of Sargeras' Portal BS collapsed Draenor, which made the whole planet shatter. It wasn't Ner'zhul himself.
 
Anderson2003 said:
Bepo4151 said:
And thats, not a proof for being equal to Deathwing or being 5-A. Also Deathwing got defeated by the Dragon Soul and the aspects channeling all of their power into it. So Deathwing >>>>>Arthas
Click to expand...
... Or I can just say that the Lich King is immensely more powerful than DK Arthas who is immensely more powerful than Ner'Zhul who busted a planet once (even if other factors were involved). Cuse that did happen.
Click to expand...
Nerzhul didn't bust a planet and you know that because I already explained to you what happened to Outland. And no DK Arthas is not stronger than Ner'zhul because all of his powers was given to him by Ner'zhul.
 
Bepo4151 said:
Anderson2003 said:
Bepo, Arthas after being weakened 10.000 times oneshotted the most powerful force on Earth, the Heroes, when he wished to fight seriously. In comparison, Deathwing was beaten by slightly stronger heroes and the Dragon Soul.
Click to expand...
And thats, not a proof for being equal to Deathwing or being 5-A. Also Deathwing got defeated by the Dragon Soul and the aspects channeling all of their power into it. So Deathwing >>>>>Arthas
Click to expand...
We also had to weaken Deathwing's armor to make the damn Artifact even come close to working. And, even then, we had to break Deathwing's Parts so that the Aspects could do their thing.
 
You're both wrong in some cases. Argus' ability is likely to break the Space-time. It says ALL of Creation. It likely breaks into the 4th dimension as well.

And, for Arthas/Deathwing, Deathwing is NO Planet buster, but he IS powerful. However, he's nothing more than a puppet to the Old Gods, and they're siginificantly weaker than a Titan.
 
Also, Arthas is weaker than Deathwing. However, Deathwing was stopped by us in some cases, as we needed to break him, so that the Aspects could completely attack him.
 
Bepo, not all of Arthas' power were given by Ner'zhul (As LK), his own strength still remained and Arthas was still quite the fighter even before becoming a Death Knight. In fact, Arthas as a Paladin managed to defeat Black Drakes in Warcraft 3 and even Dreadlords.

Anyways, I do know that Ner'zhul didn't personally bust a planet, but let me be a bit biased.

Also, Bepo, that isn't even a good argument you did there, because Ner'zhul as Lich King got his powers tremendously amped by Kil'jaeden when he was bound to the Frozen Throne to service the Legion once more, since he had a way more important task. Ner'zhul before that was around comparable to Gul'Dan.

Arthas' Fury of Frostmourne oneshotted all heroes at the time which is a pretty solid feat, especially considering the Heroes have their own share of feats up until then such as killing all raid bosses to Arthas, such as EVERYONE, really. Deathwing was weakened as well, but both should be around "comparable", even if Arthas is weaker than Deathwing, it isn't a great margin. And mind you, the 5-B tier is incredibly huge. Even if Arthas was tens of times weaker than Deathwing, he could still be 5-B.
 
Oh, and by the way, Arthas as a Death Knight could kill the elder child of Malygos, Sapphiron, who is an agent of Malygos, killed Searinox, a black drake (Human Arthas actually, before DK), managed to defeat Illidan, kill Uther, kill Antonidas (Jaina's master), kill Mal'Ganis(Human Arthas), kill Kel'Thuzad (Human Arthas), kill Sylvanas, a forgotten one (possibly related to an Old God) and many other trained warriors.

And this was all before Arthas became thousands of times more powerful as the Lich King.
 
And he is still weaker than Deathwing stop with this. Aspects are thousands of times stronger than their children because they are actually empowered by the Titans it's like comparing a random vrykul or earthen to Odyn. Killing Sapphiron with the help of Kel'thuzad and anub'arak iirc doesn't bring him even remotely close to Deathwing.
 
I understand. Im just saying that even being weaker than Deathwing, he can still be 5-B. Especially through his feat at the Icecrown Citadel of oneshotting all heroes. Also, that was a really weak Arthas in comparison to his LK state, as LK Arthas is thousands of times above DK Arthas (this is a response to your comment, not a followup to mine, btw)

EDIT: Also, during WotLK, we kill Malygos in a raid with the help of Alexstrasza. So the heroes Arthas oneshotted at Icecrown Citadel were already capable of fighting Dragon Aspects as of WotLK.
 
I personally dont think Argus meant that he would destroy an infinite amount of timelines in just that attack and that would be 2-A, but I do think it can be Low 2-C, which means he'd end all physical matter in the universe and its time. It seems more realistic given context.
 
Anderson2003 said:
I personally dont think Argus meant that he would destroy an infinite amount of timelines in just that attack and that would be 2-A, but I do think it can be Low 2-C, which means he'd end all physical matter in the universe and its time. It seems more realistic given context.
Click to expand...
Idk. Would kind of go against what Sargeras was aiming for, right? I mean, his entire goal was to end ALL of Creation, not just the physical matter of our Timeline. And, knowing Blizzard, they do give Villains asspulls, and random power boosts. For Example, A Regular Titan is strong, but a Void infused one would EASILY make creation its own playground. But here, Argus is likely empowered by Sargeras. Idk.

Remember, Archimonde And Kil'jaeden were like regular powerful Mages before Sargeras arrived. Now, their powers are EMENSE! Think of that, but with a Titan.
 
Considering that the Burning Legion was stated to go on to a near infinity of universes to destroy their worlds and those have times as well, it could be so that this is a 2-A feat, but that may or may not be debunked by someone else. I'll go on and agree for the while.

Sargeras: Upgraded to 2-A due to Argus' feat and him being superior to Argus and all.

Argus: 2-A due to what has been discussed.

Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden: At least 5-B, likely far higher for every single feat and statement both have ever had in relation to planet busting.

Deathwing, Lich King Arthas: At least 5-B for being nearly comparable to those two above and having their own set of feats (heck, both had to be weakened tons of times to get then defeated by extreme artifacts/massive plot and even then its still convoluted. Also, just so that Bepo doesn't complain, lets remember that Arthas did oneshot a massive amount of Heroes, who had killed Malygos and tons of other powerful beings in the past, which also sustains their 5-B placing).

Death Knight Arthas, Thrall (without the Dragon/Demon Soul), Illidan (with the Skull of Gul'Dan), Grom, Jaina, Malfurion, etc. should be moved to 6-A through sheer scaling (You guys could help me on this one, actually).
 
So you agree? Well, thats... great!

We should also scale their speed. In WoW, players and heroes constantly dodge lightning and such, so for the 6-A lot, we could get speed based on that... which I dont know how to rate, really. They made a thread on this a while back, so if you could do so, I would be really grateful: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1021004

Archimonde should be At Least faster than the 6-A lot and Sargeras should remain at unknown. Dunno how to scale Argus and his speed since we were all buffed by the titans and Argus is one, so we cant really know.
 
"Considering that the Burning Legion was stated to go on to a near infinity of universes to destroy their worlds and those have times as well, it could be so that this is a 2-A feat, but that may or may not be debunked by someone else. I'll go on and agree for the while.

Sargeras: Upgraded to 2-A due to Argus' feat and him being superior to Argus and all.

Argus: 2-A due to what has been discussed."

End of all things seems very exaggerated. It is more likely that this is a simple lifewipe, probably 3-A at most. Also, is there any other proof save for the name (My apologize of there is and I missed it)?

"Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden: At least 5-B, likely far higher for every single feat and statement both have ever had in relation to planet busting."

If your refering to Murmur, I agree with Bepo that that seems very unlikely. It seems like an outlier and it could also mean lifewiping, which is High 6-A.

Destroying the crust is also High 6-A.

"Deathwing, Lich King Arthas: At least 5-B for being nearly comparable to those two above and having their own set of feats (heck, both had to be weakened tons of times to get then defeated by extreme artifacts/massive plot and even then its still convoluted. Also, just so that Bepo doesn't complain, lets remember that Arthas did oneshot a massive amount of Heroes, who had killed Malygos and tons of other powerful beings in the past, which also sustains their 5-B placing)"

That would be accurate, if Archimonde and Kil'Jeadan are actually 5-B. I honestly think they are "At least High 6-A, likely far higher".
 
Antorus could inform you on a higher scale, but there are MANY, MANY statements and mentions for Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden being 5-B. You can go on their page and higher on this very thread to check when we have mentioned those. Its not solely due to Murmur.

The second part is Accurate due to the first one being.

And Argus was going to end CREATION, quite specified, Creation is the result of Light and Void that created all universes and times. And he was going to end it.
 
See, I don't think it's a simple life-wipe. Judging by how it's discribed and all, I think it's much more. If it were like you said, then the discription would've just stated "Argus ends all life in the Universe". But here, it talks about him ending ALL of Creation. So, idk.
 
Anyways, the strongest Eredar are planet busters, there is the planet crust thing, Mongrethod, Dimensius, Murmur and many other planet busters are also inferior to them and so on. There are many indications to this, you can find more if you actually dig up manuals and such, probably.
 
Blowing up the crust is High 6-A, though, looking at the page, I can see at least 5-B Archimonde.

It is probbably more likely that Arthas, after the destruction of his heart, was no longer 5-B.
 
Arthas, even after being weakened to hell's worth, still oneshotted all heroes with Fury of the Frostmourne and killed them all. Said heroes also killed Malygos and many other powerful beings, and there, at that moment, Arthas at his weakest since becoming Lich King, killed the most powerful force on Earth. He was still 5-B then.
 
Yes, but even then: Malygos and the Dragon Aspects are about comparable to Neltharion, even if weaker. And the heroes have killed beings such as Dimensius, Mongrethod and others, who are also 5-B in lore. So yeah, theres that.
 
Anderson2003 said:
Yes, but even then: Malygos and the Dragon Aspects are about comparable to Neltharion, even if weaker. And the heroes have killed beings such as Dimensius, Mongrethod and others, who are also 5-B in lore. So yeah, theres that.
Click to expand...
Mongrethod was for WoD, and Dimensius was stated to have an Army when he destroyed Ka'resh.
 
There are others, actually, but I never remember the others... You can probably find them. Most raid bosses that get hyped up become planet busters due to their lore.
 
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