MASSIVE Warcraft Revision

[Anderson2003]

First: No, thats not what I said. It was this:

Me: KJ and Archie can planet bust.

You: Yeah they can, with prep.

Me: No like, really. They have been said to destroy planets many times over. Without prep, that is.

You: lolwut

Second: There is no implication Arthas used his soul stealing, that is pure headcanon. I even adressed that other spells showed that it was in relation to the users soul, but to this one? Nada. Nice headcanon;

Third: That was from his raid, he wasnt on Azeroth, he was on Draenor. Check the link, it isn't "in-game" nonsense in the slightest. In fact, this was one of the reasons they got to their tier in the first place. Nice attempt to sound sarcastic without knowing what you're talking about. In fact who adds said statements in the description of spells and such is Blizzard themselves, so there isn't really any way to "invalidate" these.

 

[Antvasima]

Remember to stay polite to each other.

However, I have no idea how to solve this.

Perhaps a new thread that summarises both sides of the arguments in the first post would be an idea? That way, we might get more staff input.

 

[Myriadofmemes]

When I said Azeroth I was jabbing at the spell requiring players to "run away to avoid as much damage as possible". Meaning get off of Draenor because it's about to explode.

That was from his raid

it isn't "in-game" nonsense
I'm done arguing with you.

 

[Anderson2003]

Good, it seems ignoring facts is your best argument, after all. Them taking different damage depending on distant is, on the other hand, ingame stupidity.

Yeah, its from his raid. Nearly every information is ingame. Its not ingame NONSENSE. See what I mentioned before? You couldn't debunk it. You failed to do so and the best you did was say "No". And it would have been so easy, as well, because I thought of the literal obvious thing to say once you knew Kil'jaeden was weakened and I thought of a response to it, yet you couldn't even think of that.

Sorry if this is being toxic Ant, but I feel its justified.

 

[Antvasima]

Would you be willing to start a new thread Myriadofmemes?

 

[Anderson2003]

I could do so, Ant. So the general idea is to put both sides of the argument (Mine and Bepo's) in the first post for further input, is that it? Also, what about what has been agreed here, such as the Elemental Lords ratings and such, should it be added?

 

[Myriadofmemes]

I promise to start a new thread tomorrow Ant, I've been up almost the whole night now. Need to get some rest.

 

[Antvasima]

@Myriadofmemes

It would probably be best to matter of fact explain all 3 different alternative interpretations: Yours, Bepo's, and Anderson's.

Or perhaps it would be best if Bepo handles it, given that he seems to have an in-between interpretation.

 

[Anderson2003]

This idea seems good and bad at the same time. While it is good in the sense that we can all get a "rollback" to our thoughts and opinions and get more input on it from the Wikia and the staff, one can be a bit biased or explain one's opinion in a wrong manner. I suggest we add the summary of each memeber instead, other than "explaining the alternative interpretations" (with the reasoning, of course).

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. You can write a summary, Bepo can write a summary, and Myriadofmemes can write a summary, and then Bepo can post them all in the first post of the new thread.

 

[Udlmaster]

You think I'm making it all up? Okay let me repost my list but with sources to the page, shall I, I'm sure you'll love being proven wrong then.

Murmur isn't an Elemental Lord, so please, stop. It's nothing more than flaming and it's only obstructive then anything. Never is Murmur EVER stated to be an Elemental Lord, so please, stop with that because it's Headcannon and or downplay. Murmur is stated to be a "Primal Essence" and NOT an Elemental Lord.

Therazane, the Earth Mother: At least High 6-A, Possibly 5-C, Her presence along with the other Elemental Lords is felt across the Planet. Therazane casually moved mountains and created fissures in Primordial Azeroth and was deemed a Threat to Deathwing who severely damaged Azeroth by just leaving and was deemed a Threat to Deathwing who severely damaged Azeroth by just leaving Deepholme,comparable to the Other Elemental Lords.

Neptulion, the Tide Hunter: At least High 6-A, Possibly 5-C, Presence is all over Azeroth, along with the Other Elemental Lords, Queen Azshara saw Neptulion as a threat to the Naga and herself, Queen Azshara post-transformation with her previous form being able to hold a barrier that could hold the Multi-Continental Sundering at her Palace which was less than a few metres from the Well, comparable to the Other Elemental Lords.

Ragnaros, the Firelord: At least High 6-A, Possibly 5-C, Presence is found all around Azeroth along with the Other Elemental Lords, His mere summoning damaged the Entire region of the Burning Steps and damaging the Surrounding Regions such as Searing Gorge and the Bad Lands. Was in a constant war with Nefarian, the Son of Deathwing and one of the Major Flight leaders for the Black Dragonflight , comparable to the Other Elemental Lords.

Al'Akir, the Windlord: At least High 6-A, Possibly 5-C, Presence is found all across Azeroth along with the Other Elemental Lords , fought Ra, Thorim and Hodir, should be comparable to other Titan Keepers, Rajh along with Setesh of whom are stated to have the power to wipe the Entirety of Life on Azeroth effortlessly. Comparable to Other Elemental Lords.

Murmur: 5-B, Possibly Higher. Stated to turn Planets into dust by Whispering, while being summoned, a Bored yawn obliterated the summoning party leaving him between summonings.

Note: Murmur is NOT an Elemental Lord, while he IS an Elemental, he is no Lord and is classified as a "Primordial Essence of Sound. ".

Debunk: Pacifying level =/= Power, similarly, I could be saying "Because X person is weak to Y, it means they are bound to Y's level." Additionally, it does not mention the Elemental Lords, only the Elements who are much weaker than their Leaders, additionally, the extract only speaks of Draenor, not Azeroth. Frisk isn't on Asriel Dreemurr's Level and vice versa.

Archimonde, the Defiler: At least 5-B, Possibly Higher. Stated to be comparable to Kil'Jaeden but weaker, where Kil'Jaeden has been Stated to destroy the Planets that the Draenei had fled too , Archimonde's death led to the destruction of a World Tree and a massive sacrifice of the Elves Immortality to defeat him.

Kil'Jaeden, the Deceiver: At least 5-B, Possibly Higher. Stated to have Destroyed the Planets the Draenei had fled to, as well he had thought he was able to beat or challenge Sargeras and rule the Burning Legion. Stated there was a Power Struggle between Sargeras and Kil'Jaeden, however, during Legion, Kil'Jaeden stated he thought Sargeras could never be defeated.

Deathwing, the Destroyer of Worlds: At least High 6-A, Possibly higher. Had Al'Akir and Rangnaros as Lackies working under him. Damaged the Dimensions between the Planes of the Elemental Lords, bring Skywall to Azeroth as well as opening the way for Deepholme, Firelands and Abyssal Maul. Give the Title of: "Destroyer of Worlds" by Blizzard.

Illidan Stormrage, the Betrayer: Possibly 6-B with the Eye of Sargeras. His spell work was going to destroy all of Northrend and severely hurt the Elements and all of Nature on Azeroth was enough of a Threat that Nature called for his brother to Stop the spell before it was too late.

The Lich King, Arthas Menethil: At least 6-B, possibly Higher. Casually one Shot all the Heroes of Azeroth using "Fury of Frostmourne" after being severely weakened and having his heart destroyed, which was stated to have seriously hurt him on top of the New Plague being released onto him. In Order to destroy Pre-whole Lich King, the Destruction of all of Northrend was needed.

Dimensius, The All-Devouring: At least High 6-A, possibly 5-B or Higher. Stated to have destroyed Planet along with a Naaru and major technology trying to prevent it. Casually opened holes to the Void which, alone, was enough to destroy Planets without Naaru protection. Was stated to be a "fragments, shadows, the faintest of echoes" from the Voidlords. Took the Death of a Naaru to only Banish it.

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. Given the evidence, I suppose that most of Udlmaster's ratings seem reasonable.

 

[Myriadofmemes]

Uldmaster you have provided nothing new with your links, you've simply linked the profiles of all the characters in question here. Everything that you stated has already been debunked by either me or Bepo. A vast majority of your arguments are about titles or comparisons of characters without providing a single calculation. I already responded to absolutely everything stated in Uldmaster's most recent message.

 

[Udlmaster]

Please, one, It's UDL not ULD. And my links show PROOF of my claims, just literally spend 3 seconds and read the page.

 

[Antvasima]

So, is anybody interested in collaborating for a new thread with each of the important summaries in the first post?

Because othervise this will keep going in circles without any other staff member evaluating the information.

 

[Myriadofmemes]

I've contacted Bepo about compiling the summaries everyone has made and posting them in a single thread. Hopefully everyone will agree to this and we can quickly decide on who's going to post so everyone can submit a sort of final summary that can be examined by others instead of having us regurgitating the same info over and over again.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Remember to include the Udlmaster summary as well.

 

[Anderson2003]

I was the one who suggested doing so, Myriad. I think the only one left to agree is Udlmaster, in which case, I believe he also agrees all things considered.

Elemental Lords being High 6-A does make sense since they are above to enemies that could surface wipe and have been mentioned (disconsidering their possible but unlikely 5-B rating) and their individual set of feats being quite impressive, such as mentioned in Udlmaster's summary. They do NOT, however, have any feat to place them at 5-C, because almost anything would make them be either too weak to be 5-C or be 5-B instead (Which once again, is a nearly impossible chance).

Murmur should be 5-B (Or Unknown, possibly 5-B) due to his Codex of Blood being really weird in comparison to his feats and power, but still mentions his planet busting powers and other sources also mention this. He definitely SHOULDNT be above KJ and Archy.

Archimonde and Kil'jaeden are at least 5-B as nearly everyone has proven before not only in this thread, but in WoW and other threads in the past, such as through the strongest Eredar being able to destroy planets, Kil'jaeden being stated to destroy planets that the Eredar fled to and Archimonde being stated to be able to destroy Draenor with this spell ( http://www.wowhead.com/spell=182225/rain-of-chaos). Even a unnamed Eredar, easily far under Archimonde and Kil'jaeden, who are two of the three most powerful Eredar we have ever known along with Velen, could surface wipe (such as mentioned in their profile note).

Deathwing and LK Arthas should be at least 5-B due to a weakened Kil'jaeden (which was summoned with the Scepter of Sargeras by one of Azeroth's greatest mages, Kael'thas (so he shouldn't be that weakened)) being defeated by the heroes of WoW and Arthas oneshotting them all once he fought seriously. There is NO indication of it being hax, which leads to said attack falling under a physical attack (Not Dura Negation) and being an actual Attack Potency feat.

Dimensius is weird to place, considering him being 5-B does seem far-fetched since he used armies to "planet bust" and his other feats shouldn't grant him 5-B (even though it is possible, such as mentioned), but he should be able to acquire a High 6-A rating. The possibly higher is unecessary at all since, well, he isn't possibly higher, so I agree with the rating of High 6-A, possibly 5-B.

Note: The feat to get Arthas and Deathwing to 5-B ISN'T scaling to Dimensius, Voidgods, etc (even though these still add another possibility to reach said tier). It would be being above a weakened Kil'jaeden, who is 5-B even WITHOUT PREP as shown MANY, MANY times over. This is the 5-B feat for those relatable to it.

The Dragon Aspects are not hundreds of times weaker than Deathwing, they should be around 13x times weaker individually using a terrible scaling method (Three Dragon Aspects were required to face and defeat Neltharion, who then proceeded to get 10x as Deathwing, making even the combined power of all aspects worthless without him being weakened), so they could be At least High 6-A, likely 5-B or similar (Are not so weaker in comparison to Deathwing. Could possibly be Low 5-B by placing Deathwing at Baseline Planet level, which doesn't seem to be the case considering Deathwing is already superior to Arthas who is superior to a weakened Kil'Jaeden such as mentioned above)

Illidan seems fine scaling with the rest of the crew such as Thrall, Jaina, Malfurion and such and should be 6-B with the Eye of Sargeras. Illidan is incredibly weird, though, as he could possibly have feats that scale to 5-B (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZN01-QCFKA and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td0pUwrBWjc could possibly make him 5-B, even though I really, REALLY doubt it).

This is my new summary with a few different additions and thoughts added to it.

Also, sorry for writing your name wrong all this time, Udl. I didn't notice it until you mentioned it.

I could do the new thread copying Udl's summary above, even though I dont know if I would just copy and paste Myriad's previous summary, if he wishes to write a new one and if Bepo will write a summary of his own or just go with what he has agreed on before. I don't think anything other than their own words would be fair in relation to the debaters.

 

[Udlmaster]

^^^ a Refined version of my own list. And it's fine, I've been called Dul, Uid, Udi and Oodl.

 

[Bepo4151]

Alright, i will make a thread with the 2 suggestions although I won't include Dimensius because they are some info being datamined on the ptr about Dimensius being a real void lord who managed to corrupt a world soul inside K'aresh. And if that is true then the bc quest 100% getting retconned

 

[Antvasima]

Thanks. I think that Udlmaster's version with the examples seemed good to include.

 

[Anderson2003]

Your own list has the sources, so I did my remake of mine using yours as a base. We share the same opinion, after all.

What seems to have been agreed on is Archimonde and Kil'jaeden being At least 5-B, likely higher (Only denied by Myriad who didn't really argument against it other than just rejecting it for nearly no reason even after providing evidence for said tier), Murmur being Unknown, at least 5-B (Once again only rejected by Myriad with little to no argumentation against the Codex of Blood and the many references to his ability to destroy planets) and the Warcraft Heroes being 6-C (This applies to most Warcraft 3 heroes such as Thrall, Jaina, Malfurion, Illidan, DK Arthas and Paladin Arthas).

These above should probably be applied already before we go into the next thread, since the only one who disagrees with them has not argumented against them other than rejecting said tiers and all the other debaters reached a consensus.

 

[Myriadofmemes]

I'll be posting a somewhat revised version of my summary in a little while. And yes Anderson it was you an Ant who gave the idea.

 

[Bepo4151]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1039083 new thread i think this can be closed now

 

[Myriadofmemes]

I was going to add some things that we discussed after I posted my own summary so that they don't have to be discussed for the second time. :/

 

[Bepo4151]

I started writing the thread 30 mins ago. I didn't check this thread since then. Sorry about that you can mention them in the new thread if you want to.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the help. I will close this thread then.