MASSIVE Tekken Downgrades

[RanaProGamer]

Concerning UES, there is a mechanic called Ki charge where the characters amp themselves to deal more damage and have counter hit mechanic. This is canoncially a thing because Heihachi used Ki charge in response to True Devil Kazuya's transformation. And this isn't exclusive to Heihachi since everyone channels their ki before using their unblockeable Move.

So yes. They use Ki even if its poorly mentioned.
(Also Kazuya realised Lars was his brother based on the similarities of their lightning ki)

Edit: You can customize Ki and Aura since Tekken 6 and the same auras are shown here

So BlackDarkness is right on that one.

Well, even if it’s not directly stated, this still qualifies. So the Storm feat definitely scales to Jinpachi

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Ok but like, why are you even assuming he did stop it, it's not like you can see it slowing down

Nowhere shows the meteor keeps moving after the last ditch effort he pulls and makes no sense to still move after it either when nothing suggests KE overpowers him no matter what, only thing that moves both is the explosion afterwards, on which neither can do anything about it at that point as they are destroyed

 

[Armorchompy]

Nowhere shows the meteor keeps moving

Nowhere shows the meteor stops moving? You're making arguments as if the burden of proof isn't on you.

And makes no sense to still move after it either when nothing suggests KE overpowers him no matter what, only thing that moves both is the explosion afterwards, on which neither can do anything about it at that point as they are destroyed

Nothing needs to suggest it, it's not the default assumption that it wouldn't be stopped given it was just destroyed and we don't see any part of the meteor actually being blown away, so sorry, that should not be assumed. Because, indeed, the way it would go IRL is that the whole meteor would continue its path, even if broken into pieces.

 

[Stefano4444]

Nowhere shows the meteor keeps moving after the last ditch effort he pulls and makes no sense to still move after it either when nothing suggests KE overpowers him no matter what, only thing that moves both is the explosion afterwards, on which neither can do anything about it at that point as they are destroyed

To be honest we don't really see the asteroid stopping moving after Jack throw himself to it.

So i don't think we can be certain that Jack overpower the meteor's KE instead of simply blowing it a part.

 

[RanaProGamer]

I always assumed that the shot in the end before the video shows that parts of the meteor catching fire, meaning the meteor was still approaching Earth along with Jack 6’s body.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Nowhere shows the meteor stops moving? You're making arguments as if the burden of proof isn't on you.

Says you? Based on what should be believe the last strike doesnt end the KE of it

Nothing needs to suggest it, it's not the default assumption that it wouldn't be stopped given it was just destroyed and we don't see any part of the meteor actually being blown away

Are you for real.....What freaking video did you watch dude?? We talking the same thing here??? Meteor is cracking till it explodes, we literally see Jack as well launched away from the explosion it along the pieces and you tell me there aint....dont start to be ignorant in here now with these

that should not be assumed. Because, indeed, the way it would go IRL is that the whole meteor would continue its path, even if broken into pieces.

A meteor isnt suppose to explode irl from hitting it really hard, so cut out on the realism to justify a fictional feat that the series doesnt support realism either on that

The KE is stopped and makes more sense along the statements that support on the character power

 

[BlackDarkness679]

To be honest we don't really see the asteroid stopping moving after Jack throw himself to it.

Shaky camera =/= meteor keeps moving

So i don't think we can be certain that Jack overpower the meteor's KE instead of simply blowing it a part.

Except we are certain along with what i pointed about Jack last comment

This is yet another reason for why the two users that had to make these cursed ass threads had no business to be make them in the first place, it doesnt take in account other points of the character power around, along comparable ones in his tier with feats in that caliber either, how the difference between mid tiers and high tiers is displayed and so on

Its simply a rushed downgrade that just adds more work to do later, IF by chance they get downgraded in the end at one point, i would rather have it when all the above is presented rather then out of this thread unfairly

 

[Armorchompy]

Says you? Based on what should be believe the last strike doesnt end the KE of it

yes

Are you for real.....What freaking video did you watch dude?? We talking the same thing here??? Meteor is cracking till it explodes, we literally see Jack as well launched away from the explosion it along the pieces and you tell me there aint....dont start to be ignorant in here now with these

Keep the "ignorance" stuff to yourself, at no point do you ever see any part of the meteor be blown back, ergo we don't assume it was, provide actual evidence or simply drop the topic

A meteor isnt suppose to explode irl from hitting it really hard, so cut out on the realism to justify a fictional feat that the series doesnt support realism either on that

And still no arguments were made, unless you have an actual reason to say it was blown back I don't really care if the series is realistic or not, it's the default assumption that it wouldn't be.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Default my ass, you have no proper argument against it, you assuming it to be whatever you feel like it is in all its honestly crap

Literally all you brought was the flying pieces on fire as a reason, which was already proven has no damn relevance to the meteor KE

You also aint deciding what tier is better used, when you dont know the verse to make the conclusion to begin with

 

[BlackDarkness679]

KE is the most sensical in regards to the powerscaling and you have no word on that with me to tell otherwise in the regard, unless you knew as much as me

 

[Chariot190]

You also aint deciding what tier is better used, when you dont know the verse to make the conclusion to begin with

Literally a calc group dude, he gets to decide if the KE calc even gets used before any talk of it being implemented gets discussed.

 

[Propellus]

You also aint deciding what tier is better used, when you dont know the verse to make the conclusion to begin with

You can't just gatekeep a calc group's job to choose which calc is safer. And it shouldn't matter if they aren't knowledgeable in the verse or whatnot, they are what makes a calc usuable in the first place.

 

[Armorchompy]

Default my ass, you have no proper argument against it, you assuming it to be whatever you feel like it is in all its honestly crap

Literally all you brought was the flying pieces on fire as a reason, which was already proven has no damn relevance to the meteor KE

You also aint deciding what tier is better used, when you dont know the verse to make the conclusion to begin with

Look I don't have the time or interest to do this back and forth, I was asked to give my opinion as a calc member, I gave it, I explained why I hold that opinion, I don't really have much incentive to stick around and entertain your non-arguments if you're gonna treat me like an idiot while you make them.

I would also encourage you to cool down in this thread, you've been rude to just about everyone who disagrees with you and that is a pretty bad look (especially if you're wrong)

 

[Hellbeast]

I disagree with this.
Fighting games endings, just like what ifs from other media, should still be considered as things that could have happened, unless contradicted by canon events.
About Feng's ending, more than it being canon or not, I guess we should focus on the fact that he performs the feat after seemingly being empowered by Jinpachi's scroll, although I lack knowledge on the item itself.

What what if's do we use for scaling though? I know we explictly don't for Marvel, the MCU and the DC sides of things explicitly because it creates holes in pre-existing scaling

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

@BlackDarkness679 I would be willing to calc any feats you can provide that you think would yield 6-C levels of power or anything remotely close.
As it stands now you say there are other feats of a similar level to this but do not provide evidence for it. If you give me a feat I will calc it to the best of my abilities and post the result on this thread.

You also mention that you plan on doing a upgrade CRT on this in the future. If that is the case then please share the statements or otherwise that you would use in that CRT to help validate your claim that this thread is redundant. As of right now your arguments for not downgrading the verse are just based on you debating whether the meteor's kinetic energy was stopped or not, which is not really helping your case.

Regarding the meteor calc itself, even if you say he did stop the KE the calc is STILL wrong. In it Darkness assumes it's length to be 28.5 miles based solely on the fact that it is similar to the meteor that killed the dinosaur's, while having no evidence to back it up. Therefore it should be assumed to be spherical until proven otherwise IE 6 mile diameter all around.

In regards to this thread possibly being closed just because another is in the works, that is not a valid reason to close it, period.
Unless OP comes to agreement then this thread should continue until the points brought up are refuted or the staff come to an agreement.

 

[DivineAura44]

Me thinking I should try my hand in Tekken debating:
Me after seeing these last 2 Tekken threads:

 

[Continuum19]

Hmm.

I had a talk with ThanatosX earlier in this thread where I agreed to close said thread and wait for a future revision to be done but after reading SamanPatou and Shmeat's comments it's obvious that there is a lot more stuff to discuss in regards to Tekken tiering in the community.

So I'm fine with leaving this thread open.

 

[Armorchompy]

What what if's do we use for scaling though? I know we explictly don't for Marvel, the MCU and the DC sides of things explicitly because it creates holes in pre-existing scaling

Those are canonically different timelines so it's a bit of a different situation.

I think MCU What If is used for scaling, actually (despite also being alt timelines), though I might be wrong

Probably better to just judge if it's consistent

 

[RanaProGamer]

If a calc group member says that the KE feat is not applicable, then I’ll be siding with him. I myself have requested calcs in the past, and they’ve been taken up by calc members who have little to no knowledge of the verse, but they know best how the feat works because it’s literally their role.

 

[Hellbeast]

Those are canonically different timelines so it's a bit of a different situation.

I think MCU What If is used for scaling, actually (despite also being alt timelines), though I might be wrong

Probably better to just judge if it's consistent

1) Is it though? Often, these arcade endings themselves reflect alternate scenarios, much like the episodes of What If? are to the Marvel Universe. They (mostly) don't actually happen and likely aren't intended to line up with the power scaling of the Tekken Universe any more then "Injustice" is for the DC Universe. 2) No we don't, we only scale What if from the main universe, not the other way around because of issues with consistency

 

[Armorchompy]

1) Is it though?

idk ain't my verse

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Look I don't have the time or interest to do this back and forth, I was asked to give my opinion as a calc member, I gave it, I explained why I hold that opinion, I don't really have much incentive to stick around and entertain your non-arguments if you're gonna treat me like an idiot while you make them.

When you bring up stuff like the explosion to side your argument on KE it aint gonna support your decision, let alone that your only argument left is you thinking no to KE, excuse me i aint buying just an opinion thrown like that unless you show concrete stuff from the series that says otherwise

I would also encourage you to cool down in this thread, you've been rude to just about everyone who disagrees with you and that is a pretty bad look (especially if you're wrong)

First of, dont throw your baseless assumptions with that, i didnt speak to everyone as you claim and after the shit storms from here and previous thread i have literally no patience left to tolerate bullshit left and right on which i only have to deal with in these

Second of, other supporters arent around as much as me to help nor know all stuff as me to take my place, i had better shit to do these, especially with holidays around, along other IRL shit, ofc im gonna be irritated and fed up and having to repeat myself to several people, many of which that mocked me or purposely persist on something instead of waiting in the future, so give me a damn break, i dont need my christmas and new year to spend time with this shit, especially you with this sort of replies

 

[BlackDarkness679]

@BlackDarkness679 I would be willing to calc any feats you can provide that you think would yield 6-C levels of power or anything remotely close.
As it stands now you say there are other feats of a similar level to this but do not provide evidence for it. If you give me a feat I will calc it to the best of my abilities and post the result on this thread.

I actually wanted more calcs in general for several feats of the series overall to have in the future for when the verse wide revision happens, cuz it lacks for certain ones

You also mention that you plan on doing a upgrade CRT on this in the future. If that is the case then please share the statements or otherwise that you would use in that CRT to help validate your claim that this thread is redundant. As of right now your arguments for not downgrading the verse are just based on you debating whether the meteor's kinetic energy was stopped or not, which is not really helping your case.

I said in previous comments, either saman or somebody else or both, that its a lot more going on that, i cant really post them just like that, cuz i gotta explain all that along much more going in regards to the verse powerscaling too and that will take too long to do, let alone to phrase them up and such, thats why i had them for these CRTs in the future, i dont have that kind of time for it nowadays, thats why i kept asking to rather wait till then

Regarding the meteor calc itself, even if you say he did stop the KE the calc is STILL wrong. In it Darkness assumes it's length to be 28.5 miles based solely on the fact that it is similar to the meteor that killed the dinosaur's, while having no evidence to back it up. Therefore it should be assumed to be spherical until proven otherwise IE 6 mile diameter all around.

The meteor is stated to be the same size as the dino one, 6 miles diameter and honestly for a long time i wanted to drop off the calc for it in favor using the real life dino one as basis instead, never understood why the real deal wasnt actually used from the start instead

In regards to this thread possibly being closed just because another is in the works, that is not a valid reason to close it, period.
Unless OP comes to agreement then this thread should continue until the points brought up are refuted or the staff come to an agreement.

From all comments till i replied here, i see the OP conceded in regards to having the thread closed and to be waited on the future ones,

Also a staff had already expressed disagreement to this CRT from the very start, DDM i believe and did so in the previous one too which was closed, this CRT by the OP brings up arguments from last one which were refuted already, along whatever was brought up here by OP himself

 

[Continuum19]

I refuted my concession to close this thread in an earlier comment and I don't believe that my arguments were sufficiently refuted either but that's besides the point.

Additionally, SamanPatou (who is also an administrator just like DDM) said that this thread is fine to keep open even if a future revision is in the works.

All in all there's no reason to close this thread.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

1) Is it though? Often, these arcade endings themselves reflect alternate scenarios, much like the episodes of What If? are to the Marvel Universe. They (mostly) don't actually happen and likely aren't intended to line up with the power scaling of the Tekken Universe any more then "Injustice" is for the DC Universe.

Can you stop with this mentality regarding fighting games on not using them, what if scenarios have no reason to be ignored, regardless if they happened or not and you claiming arent intended to be lined up in power scaling is wrong as well, if a character shows they destroy a city, we have no reason to assume they cant possibly do it, unless its inconsistent

 

[BlackDarkness679]

I refuted my concession to close this thread in an earlier comment and I don't believe that my arguments were sufficiently refuted either.

They were, to many of them you stubbornly dont wanna listen reasonably or drop it, as well as not knowing everything in regards to the series as you claimed to, let alone vs debating terms in general or the standards of handling things, like how storm feats would be counted or not as physically scaling to them, how outliers are actually treated, no idea what UES was and so on

Additionally, SamanPatou (who is also an administrator just like DDM) said that this thread is fine to keep open even if a future revision is in the works.

Saman didnt reply back to what i commented to him from his take and last thread was closed, with you bringing up the same stuff and not even long since that one, barely anything new, not rushing a downgrade which doesnt take in account other stuff you missed on and didnt taken in consideration and especially not to have more work added from it from back and forth edits

All in all there's no reason to close this thread.

Yes there is, i said above

 

[Continuum19]

They were, to many of them you stubbornly dont wanna listen reasonably or drop it, as well as not knowing everything in regards to the series as you claimed to, let alone vs debating terms in general or the standards of handling things, like how storm feats would be counted or not as physically scaling to them, how outliers are actually treated, no idea what UES was and so on

Saman didnt reply back to what i commented to him from his take and last thread was closed, with you bringing up the same stuff and not even long since that one, barely anything new, not rushing a downgrade which doesnt take in account other stuff you missed on and didnt taken in consideration and especially not to have more work added from it from back and forth edits

Yes there is, i said above

1. I never claimed to know everything about the verse.

I don't know where you got that from.

2. Saman was very clear.

CRT's are a right that every user of this site has and nothing forbids other threads from being made in the meantime even if a future revision is in the works.

An administrator of VBS (Saman) specifically stated that this thread can't be closed unless we come to an agreement (which I don't think is going to happen so I guess this thread will never be closed).

You can't refute that point.

 

[RanaProGamer]

(which I don't think is going to happen so I guess this thread will never be closed).

Or if a staff concludes the thread and decides if the changes should go through or not.

 

[Continuum19]

Yeah.

That too.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

I'm pretty knowledgeable on Tekken and I'm certain that Jack-6's feat is the only 6-C feat in the entire verse.

There is absolutely nothing else.

I think it's best to downgrade the verse personally.

Aha and what is this? You literally claiming what i stated, the fact you lie on the knowledge you have on the series, then you lie you didnt said such a thing

 

[Continuum19]

Aha and what is this? You literally claiming what i stated, the fact you lie on the knowledge you have on the series, then you lie you didnt said such a thing

You said that I claimed to know everything about Tekken.

Which I didn't.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Doesnt change the fact of the comment above

You didnt even know ki exists in the series, which is common knowledge, why you think characters have ki manipulation on the profiles?

You didnt even knew most of the things i brought up here and last time, yet you try to pass yourself as somebody that has any idea of the series

Did you knew there are guides, manuals, sites both english and japanese, interviews and so on in regards to the series? You knew lore exists which tells bits of info about characters or the story

Yet you try to downgrade a verse from surface level stuff and even that is muddy

 

[Continuum19]

It absolutely changes what you said before.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Doesnt change the fact you claimed to have knowledge, but nice how you nitpick

 

[Continuum19]

I just want to be clear.

I admit I'm not as knowledgeable on the verse as I thought I was.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

How long it took you to admit it....yet you still persist with this thread even knowing that

You literally just take others comments to favor your side and personal view only, cuz you cant wait for a future CRT instead, you need to rush a downgrade from poor knowledge

 

[Continuum19]

There are still many points where we disagree and as long as that remains the case this thread will go on forever.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

In short you purposely prolong it cuz you cant be reasonable and do it out of pettyness and ego

 

[Continuum19]

I think I've been very reasonable so far.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

You saying "no, no, no" to things and assuming out of your part the sun never shines isnt reasonable at all

If you were reasonable you would have dropped the thread and waited on the future CRTs instead, as well as not relying on the debunked arguments of others and what is your personal view basically

But here we are