Massive MCU revision Part 2

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Continued from here.

We concluded that Iron Man is only 8-A via accelerating for nearly a minute, and his regular punches should scale to Cap.

After hundreds of posts of debating, Zark came up with the suggestion that Cap is a stone wall, with 9-B striking strength but 8-C durability.

Quicksilver's punch was recalculated to be 8-C. Deathlok survived a High 8-C explosio.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Aiden accepted the 8-C calc.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Considering the large scale changes that this will have shouldn't more people look into it? But if not then whatever.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Hmm. Building level Pietro huh.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

If we calculate his punch only it would actually be even higher, but we decided that directly calculating his KE is unreliable.

 

[The_Impress]

Quicksilver has a variable tier, from 9-B (Decently damaging Clint) to 8-C (Cap's dura). It would make sense why he would have that (Building momentum).

Also, with the Iron Man's punches being to Cap's level, it makes sense for him to be 8-C, similiar to his other armors

 

[The_Impress]

Read this comment for additional context

So right now, according to the CRT the tiers should go like this,

Captain America (Marvel Cinematic Universe) : 9-A, 8-C with the shield (8-C dura).

Iron Man (Marvel Cinematic Universe) (Key III) : 8-C, 8-A at peak. (8-C Dura, he cannot scale to those he harms anymore)

Winter Soldier (Marvel Cinematic Universe) : 9-A, 8-C with Bionic Arm. (8-C Dura)

Crossbones (Marvel Cinematic Universe) : 9-B, 9-A With Gauntlets

Red Skull (Marvel Cinematic Universe) : 9-A

Black Panther (Marvel Cinematic Universe) : At least 9-A. At most 8-A with Kinetic Energy Pulse. At least 8-C with his vibranium claws. (Cap's shield is 8-C now, doesn't make sense)

Quicksilver (Marvel Cinematic Universe) : Variable, 9-B to 8-C

Aldrich Killian (Marvel Cinematic Universe) : 8-C

War Machine (Marvel Cinematic Universe) (Key II) : 8-C, 8-A at peak (should be comparable to Iron Man)

Whiplash (Marvel Cinematic Universe) (Key II) : Atleast 8-C

Ultron (Marvel Cinematic Universe) (Key I) : 8-C

Current reasoning for Cap's 8-C is tanking regular attacks from Iron Man and Ultron, as well as Quicksilver's punch which clocked in around 8-C. He also is stated to be superior to Deathlok, who has an 8-C dura feat as well.

He has 9-A AP since he hasn't damaged anyone above Tier 9 severely enough to warrant that rating.

A conclusion was reached that Spider-Man's 9-A dura calc was invalid for scaling to his AP, and thus all characters related are the more supported 9-B.

Also, it is better to clarify if you support this change or not, since this is a big one.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Bucky should have 8-C dura too

 

[The_Impress]

Bucky should have 8-C dura too

For his arm. Please don't argue for his base dura to be 8-C since that breaks everything. (We'll consider him tanking hits on base body with Iron Man as an outlier.)

 

[Antvasima]

I think that you need to ask more administrators and discussion moderators to overview this before it is applied.

 

[Blitzedaken]

having 8-c for iron man sounds uneccesary since his 8-a is physical feat. if that the case then thor would have keys like "unarmed/mjolnir/lightning charged/charged for long time blowing sokovia landmass"

 

[AnonymousBlank]

8-A required him to build up to it so it can't scale at all. I think we shouldn't even bother with it since it will be tier restricted anyway and its not like he ever uses it as a way of fighting.

Thor scales to Sokovia with all keys because he took the blast with minimal injury and can match Hulk in striking who can harm Thor. Charging also only increases his DC anyway.

 

[Antvasima]

I do not have the time to follow this thread anymore, so I will unsubscribe. You can use my message wall if you need my help later.

 

[Blitzedaken]

8-A required him to build up to it so it can't scale at all. I think we shouldn't even bother with it since it will be tier restricted anyway and its not like he ever uses it as a way of fighting.

Thor scales to Sokovia with all keys because he took the blast with minimal injury and can match Hulk in striking who can harm Thor. Charging also only increases his DC anyway.

his thrusters are still part of the suit so i don't see how it doesn't scale to iron man at all, and he did it without weapons, just pure hands.

 

[The_Impress]

It doesn't scale because to achieve 8-A, Iron Man needs 50 seconds of charge up. He clearly doesn't have that prep time in any of his fight scenes

 

[Blitzedaken]

It doesn't scale because to achieve 8-A, Iron Man needs 50 seconds of charge up. He clearly doesn't have that prep time in any of his fight scenes

so are we removing out his 8-a key?

anyway, his weaponry should be 7-c.

 

[The_Impress]

He's 8-A at peak. Also, it's preferable we do the Cap and Iron Man base tier revisions first, as they are a heavy load by themselves,

 

[ShakeResounding]

Shouldn't Spidey scale to 8-C as well considering he casually moved to inspect Bucky's arm during their confrontation?

 

[The_Impress]

That's assuming Bucky was going to kill Spider-Man, which is untrue. Airport scene can't be used to scale since it is CIS to the max.

Bucky likely assumed Spider-Man to be a peak human (mid 9-B) and applied as much power, but Spider-Man is high 9-B.

 

[Naitez]

How about the building that was dropped on Spidey? Does that lead to anything?

 

[ByAsura]

It was calced at Wall level. He only took a small section of it.

 

[Naitez]

Cap being stronger than Spidey always hit me wrong. Oh well, let's hope Spidey has better feats in the inevitable cameo in Endgame or his showing in Far From Home.

 

[The_Impress]

You... you do know that Spidey will also likely have a new key if he has anything beyond a 9-A

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

For his arm. Please don't argue for his base dura to be 8-C since that breaks everything. (We'll consider him tanking hits on base body with Iron Man as an outlier.)

Why is that so?

And what stats should Black Panther have.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Spidey should have at most 9-A dura with the ship feat too

 

[The_Impress]

Widow can legit hurt Bucky by choking him out. Also, without his arm Bucky is likely a peak human, since there is no enhancement to him.

Stats for BP are listed on my second comment for this thread.

9-A is for ripping Spidey apart, which should be far higher than his regular, combat dura anyway so it shouldn't be listed, but I'm neutral on that.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Bucky definitely isn't a peak human when he can fight and take hits from BP. He also recieved one of Zola's alternate SSS.

 

[The_Impress]

MCU 9-As are being downgraded to 9-Bs. No calcs to support them, so BP is 9-B as well

 

[Therefir]

Spider-Man can take hits from a gauntlet stronger than the one Crossbones used against Cap.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yeah 9-B makes more sense.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

@Zark I think Spidey shoupd be something like at most 9-A.

Though Black Widow didn't really do anyhing to Bucky IIRC.

 

[The_Impress]

Spider-Man can take hits from a gauntlet stronger than the one Crossbones used against Cap.

See that's a weird one. The gauntlet was damaged by an explosion and except for some minor hax added onto it, so maybe that's what Tinkerer meant by "upgraded". Idk, it seems weird to consider Vulture's gang fixing up Crossbones gauntlets to be superior.

Also, Crossbones himself is a peak human when punching, whereas Shocker isn't. I don't see why we'd assume Shocker to be comparable to Crossbones in any way.

 

[The_Impress]

@Zark I think Spidey shoupd be something like at most 9-A.

Though Black Widow didn't really do anyhing to Bucky IIRC.

Yeah, I think at most works for Spidey.

Black Widow has been shown to choke Bucky out relatively well, as seen in WS bridge scene and Civil War. She's still weaker, but not by a large gap.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

I'm with Spino on the Bucky vs BW. She was wailing on him and he just choke slammed her and walked away. She barely even budged him and three double handed strike to his head were completely ignored.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Also I found out I forgot to divide the Deathlok explosion by 2. That would make it 8-C too. Consistent.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Yeah 9-B makes more sense.

Glad to see this thread showing signs of concluding. What do you think about the proposed changes by Zark, Matthew?

 

[The_Impress]

I'm with Spino on the Bucky vs BW. She was wailing on him and he just choke slammed her and walked away. She barely even budged him and three double handed strike to his head were completely ignored.

Did Cap ever directly damage Bucky in a fight? And like, serious damage, not "noticeable punch".

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Did Cap ever directly damage Bucky in a fight? And like, serious damage, not "noticeable punch".

I don't think so. The best he did was wrestling Bucky and skilfully restraining him to the ground.

 

[The_Impress]

Then I think 8-C dura Bucky is a thing.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Cap and Bucky being a stone wall explains the fact that they cannot damage 8-Cs, yet don't die either.