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Massive MCU revision Part 2

Zark2099 said:
See that's a weird one. The gauntlet was damaged by an explosion and except for some minor hax added onto it, so maybe that's what Tinkerer meant by "upgraded". Idk, it seems weird to consider Vulture's gang fixing up Crossbones gauntlets to be superior.

Also, Crossbones himself is a peak human when punching, whereas Shocker isn't. I don't see why we'd assume Shocker to be comparable to Crossbones in any way.
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Just going by the visuals Shocker's gauntlet seems to be much stronger than Crossbones'.

Crossbones can't really hurt Cap normally, so most if not all the strength comes from the gauntlet.
 
Honestly, most of Toomes' stuff is bulkier in appearance due to junkyard engineering, but they are implied to be somewhat weaker than the real thing. Wouldn't make sense for him to be passing 8-C and 7-B stuff unnoticed.

Crossbones can hurt Widow without his gauntlets, so it is likely for him to be comparable to her. Schultz is a regular construction worker, I still don't think him and Crossbones are comparable in anyway except Shocker has a broken hand-me-down from him, and its presumptious to think otherwise.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
Crossbones didn't really harm Cap though, he caught him on surprise after removing his shield. Cap rekt him in the end.
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I don't remember Bucky easily sending Cap flying several meters away with his normal punches, so this would mean Crossbones' gauntlets are superior to Bucky (His bionic arm is another story though).
 
Therefir said:
I don't remember Bucky easily sending Cap flying several meters away with his normal punches, so this would mean Crossbones' gauntlets are superior to Bucky (His bionic arm is another story though).
Click to expand...
Yeah about that, Base Bucky and Cap are 8-C stone walls with 9-B AP, so they're not exactly hurting each other without weapons. Crossbones, on the other hand, is a glass cannon, so he can straight up hurt Cap and then get rekt.

Crossbones' Gauntlet and Bucky's Arm are 8-C (So are Cap's shield and BP's claws after Iron Man and Ultron downgrade)
 
But they can consistently hurt each other with their punches.

I'm just talking about Crossbones' gauntlets, his base stats do not matter too much.
 
Therefir said:
But they can consistently hurt each other with their punches.

I'm just talking about Crossbones' gauntlets, his base stats do not matter too much.
Click to expand...
In the previous thread, we've reached the conclusion that almost everyone can minorly hurt everyone in the MCU (Ant agreed) and thus people who can severely damage the other should be used to conclusively scale. Bucky can only hurt Cap majorly with his bionic arm, and Cap doesn't really fight back all that much. 9-B is because every single regular Cap feat is that level.

The point with Crossbones' base stats are that Crossbones is far superior than Shocker in almost every regard, so scaling them is somewhat silly.
 
It doesn't matter who is stronger, Crossbones' base strength is not even 1% of the gauntlet's power (Because the gauntlet is 8-C), unless you are trying to say the gauntlet has some kind of multiplier, which is completely unfounded.

Also, you haven't answered why Shocker's gauntlet looks much stronger than Crossbones'. All I'm trying to say that Spider-Man should have 8-C in durability too, and that his base and tech suit keys should be merged, since the latter only increases the power of his webbing according to some users
 
I think it's possible to calc Shocker punching the bus. It's similar to Cap kicking the truck in the beginning of Civil War to take out a mercenary.
 
The gauntlet is 8-C for Crossbones on the account of harming Cap. I don't see why that would scale to Spidey in any way
 
It's modified, not upgraded. The gauntlet had sustained an explosion before, also it may be a strength enhancer. Shocker using it at the same level as Crossbones seems weird to me.

Also, Shocker seems stronger because he actually uses it to hit other things, while Crossbones only hit Cap and nothing else. Also, 15 year old kid should be comparibly easier to throw around than a grown adult man who's buff af.

The Shocket and Vulture's AP being likely 9-A may cover it? That's what Spider Man's atmost dura is. Or we may just downgrade Crossbones as a whole to 9-B, since he just tossed Cap around without doing much damage. Idk, can someone calc the Gauntlet's feats?
 
>The gauntlet had sustained an explosion before.

According to MCU's wikia, Shocker's gauntlet is the one that Cap ripped out from Crossbones and threw on the ground, the other gauntlet was probably destroyed by the explosion, which would explain why Shocker has only one.

So there is no reason to assume that it's weaker than before, and again, going by the visuals, Shocker's gauntlet >>> Crossbones' gauntlet.

>Shocker seems stronger because he actually uses it to hit other things, while Crossbones only hit Cap and nothing else.

Shocker moved an entire school bus faster and by more distance than Crossbones did with Cap. I'm not sure why would you think Crossbones' gauntlet could replicate that.
 
Well if Spidey has 8-C durability, Vulture would have 8-C AP for stomping Spidey.

Though I don't think Crossbones' gauntlet should be 8-C in the first place.
 
Therefir said:
>The gauntlet had sustained an explosion before.
According to MCU's wikia, Shocker's gauntlet is the one that Cap ripped out from Crossbones and threw on the ground, the other gauntlet was probably destroyed by the explosion, which would explain why Shocker has only one.
Click to expand...
To add since wikias aren't always seen as reliable. Cap removes Crossbones' right gauntlet which is the same one shocker uses. The left one was likely, as you said, destroyed when Crossbones blew himself up.
 
In this clip we can see that Cap is able to block Bucky's attacks with the bionic arm, while in this other clip he had more trouble blocking Crossbones' hit (It took three hits with the bionic arm to overpower Cap).
 
I'm talking about when he try to block a hit with his left arm but was overpowered instead.

Cap being 9-B with 8-C durability still feels weird, shouldn't he be at least 9-A for being able to slightly hurt Bucky? It's not like they're invulnerable to each other's punches.
 
Also, there is a minor mistake with Cap's Wall level+ calc, Gwynbleiddd used violent fragmentation of concrete, but Cap destroyed a highway pillar, which should be made of reinforced concrete to be able to withstand heavy loads, this engineer confirms it, so I'm going to recalculate the feat.

Volume = 892805.70 cm^3

Fragmentation of reinforced concrete is 28 j/cc.

Energy = 892805.70 x 28 = 24998559.60 Joules, 5.97 Kilograms of TNT (Small Building level)
 
9-A AP for Cap, huh? Somewhat logical I guess.

Spider-Man would scale at regular 9-A dura by naturally then(stone wall Spidey with 9-B I guess), since there is a possibility for it.

Still disagree for 8-C Shocker, maybe Crossbones can be 9-A or something. I only remember Cap being severely damaged by Bucky's 8-C arm and Iron Man's attacks, Crossbones traded blows but didn't completely f-up Cap.

Staggering isn't much in the MCU, almost everyone can off-balance and stop attacks from everyone (Star-Lord and Cap did that to Thanos, BW to Bucky, and Base Spidey to Cull.)

Honestly the only reason for stone walls here is that MCU has some shit AP feats, and far more impressive Dura feats
 
I noticed when Bucky punched Spider-Man it took him around a second to hit Spider-Man, while when he fights Cap he is able to fight and punch very fast. His face is also shocked and surprised after Spider-Man caught his arm, so likely he didn't expect a kid to be so strong.

Bucky vs Spider-Man was hardly a fight in Civil War. Bucky threw a punch and didn't even try to attack after he caught it. Bucky was obviously taken aback. Then Falcon flew in and broke it up. Beyond that all they did was throw an airport sign at one another.

Spidey has never had to deal with a geared up Winter Soldier who's blood lusted on taking him out.
 
Zark2099 said:
Honestly the only reason for stone walls here is that MCU has some shit AP feats, and far more impressive Dura feats
Click to expand...
Until you get to the big boys, where the AP feats are legit.

But yeah, the feats and scaling are messed up on the street level heroes. I feel really bad for Spidey.
 
So baseline 9-A (still 9-A but a downgrade regardless) for the enhanced humans, with Cap and Bucky being 8-C stone walls?
 
Yes. Spidey is 9-B however, he doesn't have solid enough AP feats.

Crossbones and Spider Man villains remain 9-A for hurting Spider-Man

Also, as Iron Man's attacks are 8-C, Ultron should be downgraded as well.
 
In what regard? Spider-Man's own durability feats range from 9-B+ to 9-A (Cap's AP), and his fight with Cap and Bucky was littered with CIS, as with most Civil War fights. Crossbones seems funky to scale to Cap, so it's better to scale him to Shocker, who harmed Spider-Man.

Spider-Man doesn't have many valid AP feats, and his only sensible scaling may be to other peak humans, who are 9-B
 
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