Massive Fairy Tail CRT (with upgrades and downgrades for some characters)

[BlackeJan]

Then stops getting angry cause I've just have a list of things that I've never considered PIS so stop. The major problem here is the PIS with Base Natsu so I don't even know why others was being brought up in the 1st place (though for the sake of it I still decided to say what needed to be said). U know what funny? that even though I'm the 2v1 even though they damaged the Spriggans u want them to be at their tier even though they were getting rely but hey we have Ryuko/Satsuki being 7-A while Ragyou is High 7-A even though both those girls damaged her and oh wow Frieza and Android 17 got At Least 3-A even though they tripped teamed a person STRONGER then then (that person was still Low 2-C) so again by your logic Base Natsu should have the SAME AP lvl as someone who was beating the crap out of him + he needed help and U go by "well they here him so they should scale" yet again the examples I gave ya proves otherwise. So again stop getting mad In a debate cause u said I think evening is PIS but I don't get mad when u make arguments that keep make no sense when again I have a list of things that I've never said/was happy with the scalings. Also where did u get that no one agreed with me? I don't see anyone other then @Dragon saying that "it doesn't really change anything unless the person was actually useful" which indeed they were since they won thanks to their partners

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I'm not even gonna try to disprove you at this point, the manga does it for me, the Base forms constantly damage High 7-A characters

If you deny that, you didn't read the manga

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Okay? And? That doesn't change the fact that if there were the main ones fighting they scale. People can still scale to those they lose to.

 

[BlackeJan]

@Dragon

Since when do I assume that I believe things r the absolute truth? I mean as I think about if I'm arguing about something YES it s the truth especially when I go back and keep reading to see who is right or not so don't try and make me look like I'm someone who looks down on y'all + how do I contradict myself?

@Demon

There is nothing to apologize since again this is a debate so it's the point of going back and forth but yes getting mad over something like that is something that needs to stop though I be fully aware of what I've saod and I don't see a contradiction + don't say I cut down whatever u say when u try to ignore the things I've said and things u agreed apon and want me to just go and believe what u think

 

[BlackeJan]

Okay? And? That doesn't change the fact that if there were the main ones fighting they scale. People can still scale to those they lose to.

Funny thing is they were the main people fighting. The same concept that they went is basically the same concept here as well....they had help

@Demon

Alrighty then I should had said this before but yes even though they damaged the Spriggan it's not like it was fatal or anything like that. U know how many times a Spriggan got damaged and it just went to infuriate them? don't even get me started about Laxus cause his attacks wasn't doing anything but his red (stronger) Lightning did or yeah Kacob get shots once with a bloody nice and was imfuritated so he starts wailing in them and theres was nothing Natsu or Lucy could do about it

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Alright I didn't want to do this but...

Base Natsu Damages a High 7-A Character


Base Erza Damages a High 7-A Character


Natsu Once Again Damages a High 7-A Character


Base Gajeel Matches and equals a High 7-A Characters Power


Natsu Breaks out of the power of and Impresses a High 7-A Character


Base Natsu, ONCE AGAIN, INJURED A HIGH 7-A CHARACTER, do I need to continue or are you going to keep ignoring the literal evidence in front of you

Edit: Also the only reason Laxus couldn't damage Wall, is because Wall is basically Immune to Lightning and Laxus was Weakened and yet Laxus still won, huh weird, Is that PIS too, or is Wall maybe just a bad matchup for Laxus

 

[BlackeJan]

The fact that u just ignored EVERYTHING IVE SAID is sad....I'm going to say ay t again jay like I've said it before so please read this intently. Ajeel and Jacob was toying the crap out of their opponents so their that. U say Gajeel and Bloodman were even yet after that Gajeel was losing and Levy came in clutch and saved his life. The....ok that's just wrong man....u agreed and I've said numerous times about the PIS about the last panel so I don't evem know why that's there. I guess I can agree with u about the ice since I could make the argument that it's fire vs ice but Natsu couldn't melt Silvers Fire (though then again he didn't keep training durin that time). Let me go back to Ajeel and Jacob....Ajeel was toying with Erza the start of the battle yet the moment he takes his eyes off she hits him with a sword that iirc also had a weakness against him yet he was still standing and unleashed a storm that was gonna destroy her so theirs that. Now back to Jacob....again.... he got hit like a few times (ya have me proof he didn't get hit once but I'm sure it could had been cause he was distracted)and it just made him furious just like how Natsu/Lucy kicked him and gave him a bloody nose and he precede to beat the crap out of them (heck they got a hit off him cause of his weakness) so is there anymore else I need to see an counter argue it?

 

[The_Calaca]

Changing the topic what are we gonna do about the pre ts stuff?
Most people agreed with it.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

F*ck it, I'm out for the night, I can't handle this anymore, if you can't see how if a character can damage another one, they scale, then you don't know what Scaling even is, at this point, I'm pretty sure you're trolling, like when you said Max was superior to Sting and Rogue

 

[BlackeJan]

Oh gosh quit crying about it like seriously here ya go again about "hey imma ignore what u say by u have to listen to me" like stop not it's getting childish at this point that yur getting huffy and puffy about it. I even said that they were damaged but how in the world do they fully scale when their opponents weren't even trying unless and it was a 2v1 like come on! like isn't their such thing a partially scaling? like this would be my 3rd time saying that they took damage but all it did was upset them then start beating them badly + FT target their weakness (iirc except Gajeel) + they toyed with them like if yur SEIOUSLY gonna ignore that plus the PIS that u admitted yet u still decided to show the page is already harsh on me.

 

[1997KD]

Oh gosh quit crying about it like seriously here ya go again about "hey imma ignore what u say by u have to listen to me" like stop not it's getting childish at this point that yur getting huffy and puffy about it. I even said that they were damaged but how in the world do they fully scale when their opponents weren't even trying unless and it was a 2v1 like come on! like isn't their such thing a partially scaling? like this would be my 3rd time saying that they took damage but all it did was upset them then start beating them badly + FT target their weakness (iirc except Gajeel) + they toyed with them like if yur SEIOUSLY gonna ignore that plus the PIS that u admitted yet u still decided to show the page is already harsh on me.

IIRC you always have problem with ft stuff, You was like- its ft i will don't let this verse get s upgrade change the thread into shit stomp so everyone stop commenting on it. And that's truth its on you if you like my comment or not, Also time skip natsu should be stronger than both pre time skip jellal and mardgeer. And its pis only by your pov @blackjean

• levy save gajeel? She didn't damage blood man, all she did it create a hole and nullify one blood man attack, gajeel still defeat bloodmanown in his own

And after this i am even going to read you comment

 

[BlackeJan]

@1997

Look at the comments above cause @Dragon said the same thing. Anyways yes yur right I went back to read and it was basically Gajeel doing everything on his own though it still stands that he couldn't beat Bloodman on his own and he had to beat him with DF

 

[Captain_Torch]

Well this argument escalated quickly... More importantly, we need to figure out Alvarez low tiers like Max, etc. as well as PreSkip stuff

 

[BlackeJan]

U have no idea....though I wasn't even mad during the entire time. But....I've gotta go apologize to @Demon now....

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@Blackejan

Now that I'm awake and have calmed down, I can counter your points

First of all the Brandish Calc at High 7-A is casual for Spriggans, so every Casual spriggan should scale to that anyway, and the characters match them all the time

1: You do realize you don't need to be stronger than someone to scale, right? Gajeel was Matching Bloodman in Power and was almost as strong as him, the main reason he couldn't win, was that he couldn't get by Bloodman's Intangibility, but regardless he still scales, because he matched him in power

2: Once Again, Erza damaged Ajeel and Damaged him on her own, that means she broke his durability because she could damage him, she wouldn't have won without help, Ajeel's Intangibility makes it very hard to hit him, even then when Erza did have a means of hurting him, she damaged him hard, and made him Bleed, She's very close to Ajeel in power, It's just Ajeel's Hax that makes him very hard to fight

3: Now the elephant in the room, Natsu, in his base form he One Shot Ikusa-Tsunagi with no difficulty whatsoever, you say he used his full power, but he only used two attacks and the second one took him out with little difficulty, Scaling him down to the War God makes little sense, since Natsu One Shot him before the War God even did anything, he is fodder to Natsu, as well Natsu Vaporized Ajeel's Sand Magic, and Socked him right in the Face Making him Bleed, which impressed him and showed he had High 7-A AP, and then again, Later on, he fights Jacob and damages him on his own and also with the little help of Lucy makes him Bleed, he also did this while he was intentionally holding back, as well as when all of his friends were trapped, But still he damaged Jacob, Later on, Natsu Melts Invel's Ice in Base Form with no damage, which once again, Impressed Invel amd he essentially said, Natsu is too strong, later on, once again Natsu One Shots Neinhart, you keep saying I agree with it being PIS, but I don't, Natsu Takes a bunch of Wind Cuts from Neinhart and then One Shots him, and Brandish says she miscalculated how strong Natsu was, and that he is stronger than she thought, the only thing that contradicts Natsu not scaling to the spriggans, is that Natsu was afraid of Brandish, which we all know is BS anyway, since right after this he threatens Brandish with no hesitation whatsoever

All your points rely on assumptions and using the argument that two separate things are PIS, "Brandish scared Natsu, but Natsu One Shot Neinhart, so that means it was PIS"

It makes far more sense that Natsu being Afraid is PIS, since Natsu damaging Spriggans, Erza damaging spriggans, and Gajeel damaging spriggans is consistent, therefore we scale the base forms of High 7-A

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Once again, due to reasons above, this is the scaling we should use

?: Cana, Levy, Max, Warren, Alzack, Bisca, Romeo, Human Carla, Yuka, Yukino, Rufus, Orga, Millianna, Bacchus

7-A: Lucy, Base Wendy, Juvia, Cana with Fairy Glitter, Elfman, Lisanna, Evergreen, Bickslow, Freed, Ichiya, Loke, Lyon, Makarov, Base Sherria, Meredy, Kagura, Bluenote, Ikusa-Tsunagi

At least 7-A: Jura, Wolfheim, Hyberion, Warrod, Midnight, Cobra, Angel, Hoteye, Racer, Juliet Sun, Heine Lunasea, Marin Hollow

Likely High 7-A: Base Gray, DF Wendy, Mavis, Pantherlily

High 7-A: Base Natsu, Base Gajeel, Standard Armor Erza, Mirajane, Sting, Rogue, Minerva, Brandish, Ajeel, Jacob, Neinhart, Invel, Bloodman, Wall, Dimaria, God Serena, Third Origin Sherria, Base Animus, Zash, Doll, Gapri, Swan, Kyria

6-C: FDKM and END Natsu, Dragon Force Gajeel, Devil Slayer Gray, Strongest Armors Erza, Laxus, Jellal, WSDM Sting, Larcade, Base August, Human Irene

At least 6-C, likely higher: Dragonification Natsu, Dragon Cry Powered Animus

As for the Low tiers, I think, we're just gonna have to scale them to At least High 7-C, unless we find another calc, we can scale tem too

 

[BlackeJan]

It's good that you've calm down. Tbh my entire argument was meant for Base Natsu but you still had some flaws to your argument. I say the Base Natsu one shotting War God was casual which isn't true at all (literally his iron dragon fist didn't work so he went full power demolition fist and was able to one destroy it hence the At Least 7-A. I like the fact that u continue to address parts of the Erza vs Ajeel fight but don't even mention the beginning how he was toying with her and he gotten destracted so Erza used a sword that was his weakness and damaged him (the man literally gotten back up and decided to get serious and was about to rely Erza again). Again u look at parts of a fight but now the full thing, Gajeel was contesting with Bloodman yes (only that one scene) but literally 98% he was getting his butt whooped until he decided to say screw it and suck up the particles to enter DF which he need to win though I will admit and agree that it was basically Gajeel fighting Bloodman but in the beginning Gajeel touched him and got a headbutt (though Bloodman wasn't trying). Ok? And? Natsu was able to impress his opponents just like how he impressed Zero but he need DF to be him....u do know that just cause they impress it downs mean anything right? yes Natsu did damage them but AGAIN they weren't even that fazed by it I mean u act like the moment they hit the spriggans it was fatal which isn't true (again they wouldn't be that much dazed by the attack and would go to pummel FT characters in 2v1)

EDIT: u know how many characters be "impressing" their opponents but they still get destroyed? just like how Goku impressed Jiren yet the latter was holding back, Boris was impressed but Saitama but he got demolished, just how Madara was impressed with Narutos power but he could still beat him. It spend really matter of impressing but how serious the attacks were which again wasn't that servere

 

[BlackeJan]

Actually going back on the Gajeel vs Bloodman, Gajeel headbuted him with his iron and did (somewhat) damage do the whole "Bloodman body is particles" wouldn't make sense if Gajeel hit him (though Bloddman wasn't trying during that time)

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

At this point, you either disagree with me or not, I gave my final points, and I still think you're wrong, you're scaling Natsu to a weaker feat that doesn't even show Natsu's or the War God's Full Power, and if you say I'm assuming the feat was casual, well you're assuming the Spriggans were toying with their opponents, and didn't use they're real power at all, so your argument for saying why I'm wrong is proving why you're wrong, but whatever, let's just see how others respond and believe the scalings are, Captain, Calca, and Dragonmaster agree with me, so it doesn't matter anyway if I keep arguing

 

[BlackeJan]

How do we even know that they agree with u? I mean of course captain since he made the calc and @Dragon gave his input on it. How am I assuming that the Spriggans were toying FT when that was was literally happening? Did u not read what was going on during the War???

 

[The_Calaca]

Why is Makarov Low 7-B+?
He got destroyed by Hades and did nothing to him

And since when does he scales from Laxus? I already argue about Laxus being on Gildarts' level, but no way Makarov is

I just noticed this comment. It makes sense. I don't remember Makarov doing anything in his fight against Hades and we have no idea if he scales to Laxus.

It's even worse if you think that he's currently scaling from Lucy...

@Mitch

So At least High 7-C for the majority with little exceptions such as DF and LFD Natsu, Hades, Bluenote, Gildarts and Laxus, right?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Yeah, I agree with the Makarov thing, I change him to At least High 7-C later, and yeah everything in the bottom

@Blackejan

Once again, you're making Assumptions that the spriggans are holding back, while they never stated this or claimed it, your entire argument revolves around Assumptions and claiming things as PIS, and Dragon agrees with me, he literally said that you can scale the characters who had help, also I have read the War arc many times, and the Base Forms scale, so once again, I believe you're wrong

 

[Captain_Torch]

Makarov managed to tank Hades's Amaterasu 100 with his shields, which is his best spell.

Besides, the series consistently portrayed Makarov above Laxus. During the Laxus rebellion arc, everybody believed that Makarov could stop Laxus if not for his sickness. There even was the whole deal of "surpassing gramps", and him not being there yet. They should be equal at the very least.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

IMO the new scaling with Base Natsu and the others in that section being High 7-A makes sense

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

^I love you DragonEmperor

 

[Elizhaa]

Makarov managed to tank Hades's Amaterasu 100 with his shields, which is his best spell.
Besides, the series consistently portrayed Makarov above Laxus. During the Laxus rebellion arc, everybody believed that Makarov could stop Laxus if not for his sickness. There even was the whole deal of "surpassing gramps", and him not being there yet. They should be equal at the very least.

I agree

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

That is actually true, I agree with that^

 

[The_Calaca]

I'm looking for the chapter. I agree with upgrading Makarov's durability but if he didn't do anything to Hades his AP should be downgraded anyway.

 

[The_Calaca]

Chapter 216 The fight starts and Makarov is already losing. Then the Amaterasu thing happened and Makarov managed to survive. After that Hades fodderized him with no effort.

Makarov DID survived the attack but it he needed his magic to do it and even then he was severely crippled after that so he should scale to Hades only with Magical Durability and as a top dura. I mean he can barely survive to attacks far higher than Gildarts's feat only if he shield up before.

 

[Captain_Torch]

He's still >Laxus via inverse canon though

Not to mention that he was obviously shaken up by the fact that Hades was his previous master, which really affected him in battle.

 

[The_Calaca]

Maybe in Laxus's arc but IDK if that still counts for Tenrojima's arc. Even the prota group surpassed Makarov at that point and it's possible that Laxus did aswell.

Unless it's proven otherwise later.

 

[BlackeJan]

@Demon

I have gave u evidence that basically shows that the Spriggans were holding back but u must have misunderstood me....at 1st they would play around with their food but the moment they take damage (it's not fatal or anything like that to them) they either but out their transformation or something else happens so no it's not assumption unless u can tell me how it is. Still not understanding how u keep saying that I'm making PIS accusation when I was talking about only one thing and it was something u agreed in so don't know where that logic came from

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Well I guess he agrees with me and not you Balckejan

 

[BlackeJan]

OK guys agreed with u...and?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

If people agree with him, that means your arguments don't convince them. They sure don't convince me.

 

[The_Calaca]

And what the majority agree is what we count. Mitch explained it better.

And if you're still talking about Ikusa-Tsunagi no-selling Base Natsu's attack then that menas he should be At least High 7-A. We can make that a character scales to a higher tier even if he has shown lower tier feats. Powerscaling is a thing.

 

[BlackeJan]

Sorry I meant to say that @Dragon agreed but that wouldn't mean anything (I'm still using phone and sometimes I won't notice the auto correct)

@Calaca

U do know that Iris's is 7-A right? So how in the world does Bast Batsu become At Least High 7-A?

 

[The_Calaca]

I meant Ikusa-Tsunagi should be At least High 7-A for ignoring Base Natsu's attack.

And who's Iris?

 

[BlackeJan]

sig....even though our votes doesn't matter unless we were Knowledgeable Members....ill go with what y'all say....

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

You do realize that votes do in fact matter right? I am not seeing where you are getting this "votes don't matter unless you are a knowledgeable member" idea from.