MASHLE: Magic and Muscles Discussion Thread

[AnAverageUsername]

Lance never used his seconds…?

Sorry, I mixed myself up there, I meant to say he overcame the difference with Sectional Graviole

It’s stated the difference in power doesnt matter because he focused his gravity on a smaller area, inflicting great internal damage on them.

It wasn't stated anywhere that internal damage was dealt, and it was only stated that Lance was able to cover for the loss by focusing on a smaller area which ends up being that 10x multiplier

This scaling should probably be removed from the profiles

I wouldn't mind if the 10x scaling was removed for Thirds, but I disagree that it should be removed outright.

While i get something like an output based spell being 10x stronger what about Doom's magic wich clones himself?
Do we assume the clones and he himself are 10x stronger or that it's increase is not applied to his AP?

The clones only come from his Thirds, and apperently exceptions are made for non combat oriented Thirds and Secondths, like Famin's Thirds. So if LoK were here, he'd probably say that Doom's Thirds wouldn't be a power upgrade.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

It wasn't stated anywhere that internal damage was dealt, and it was only stated that Lance was able to cover for the loss by focusing on a smaller area which ends up being that 10x multiplier

He’s attacking all of them in a certain spot in the center of their body, no outer damage is present despite them all coughing up a shit ton of blood while all being incapacitated, it was an internal attack.

And no where does it state by focussing on a smaller area he can increase his attack potency by 10x, it only states him losing 10x of his power doesnt even matter because he can attack a smaller area making his attacks just as deadly.
And why the hell would this even scale to anyones 2nd?

I wouldn't mind if the 10x scaling was removed for Thirds, but I disagree that it should be removed outright.

 

[WrongIdea21]

He’s attacking all of them in a certain spot in the center of their body, no outer damage is present despite them all coughing up a shit ton of blood while all being incapacitated, it was an internal attack.

And no where does it state by focussing on a smaller area he can increase his attack potency by 10x, it only states him losing 10x of his power doesnt even matter because he can attack a smaller area making his attacks just as deadly.
And why the hell would this even scale to anyones 2nd?

it's not an internal attack, Lance produces gravity which is focused into a small area and deals the same damage as the attacks he usually gives even though his power is reduced by 10 times

 

[TimmyTurnero]

it's not an internal attack, Lance produces gravity which is focused into a small area and deals the same damage as the attacks he usually gives even though his power is reduced by 10 times

That isn’t stated, and it’s clearly an eternal attack. It’s not even said that this increases his power and he has never shown this in a physical fight. He attacked a smaller area doing efficient damage due to the nature of his geavity attacks. Why would anyone scale to this non existent 10x multiplier

 

[AnAverageUsername]

That isn’t stated, and it’s clearly an eternal attack. It’s not even said that this increases his power and he has never shown this in a physical fight. He attacked a smaller area doing efficient damage due to the nature of his geavity attacks. Why would anyone scale to this non existent 10x multiplier

So lets say we agree on this 10x multiplier debate, as a what if. The Sectional Graviole is a basic spell cast, and Lance's Secondths would scale above it because it is a massively superior spell. Now, would we scale other characters secondths to this? Yes, because if no other Secondths of characters scaled, then Lance would be above everyone. It would make more sense if every other character's Secondths, and subsequently Summons, would be at a baseline 10x increase.

Anyways, I'm gonna link the original thread where the 10x multipliers were accepted, I've been tired these past few days, and motivation is at a low with our main supporter jumping ship

Mashle - Massive thread for a verse that nobody cares

AP revision for profiles that doesn't even exist "But why?" The main reason of this thread it's because if everything here got accepted I will put everything in this blog. Originally I wasn't even going to create a thread There are so many things that it's much better to simply revise the...

vsbattles.com

 

[TimmyTurnero]

So lets say we agree on this 10x multiplier debate, as a what if. The Sectional Graviole is a basic spell cast, and Lance's Secondths would scale above it because it is a massively superior spell. Now, would we scale other characters secondths to this? Yes, because if no other Secondths of characters scaled, then Lance would be above everyone. It would make more sense if every other character's Secondths, and subsequently Summons, would be at a baseline 10x increase.

We have no idea what the sectional spell is, calling it basic is just wrong, and again, this is assuming it’s anything besides him just attacking a smaller area. Other characters don’t have direct statements saying they’re on par with this or the spells from secondths all grow at the same level. Lance could easily be stronger than other seconds or they could be stronger than him, either way, nothing would suggests their boosts as relative to his as this only depicts their baseline being superior to his own. Or vice versa, regardless, nobody should be scaling off this hypothetical multiplier.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

And I’ve been rereading and I’ve found an issue with FTL mash, not only is it an obvious outlier, but Mash is stated to be only 2x faster in this state?

Doom: “You should be able to handle me at 30%”

Domia: “At Just 30% he’s matched Mash speed”

Domia has already fought Mash and pushed him to his limits, forcing him to use UPM, he knows how fast Mash is.

Mash considers Mach 7 fast, directly stated to be 8,000kmh, and has to rely on reading the timing to actually react to this.

Domia: “They’re evenly matched”

So in terms of speed and power, Doom is equal to Mash.

Domia: “Mash is fighting seriously, he might…”

Domia tells us Mash is going all out, so this speed is equal to Mash’s “FTL” feat.

Doom: “I’ve got a good grasp on your power… At 50% I’m about as twice as fast as I was before”

The difference between 50% and 30% is 1.66x, almost 2x which fits directly with his statement of “about twice as fast” being consistent with this, as about implies close but not exactly.

Point is, Mash was forced to trick him with a Feint to react to this speed, and regardless of this, it’s already established that Mash was going all out in terms of speed and 50% Doom could match that, by going 2x faster.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Given that the FTL calc is a clear outlier, is never repeated by anyone who scales to that level of speed, is never done again by Mash in a even stronger state and isn’t stated in series.
This feat pretty much conflicts with the outlier rules and is contradicted by in series scaling, Mash UPM is canonically 2x faster than his base state, it should be mach 14.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

We have no idea what the sectional spell is, calling it basic is just wrong, and again, this is assuming it’s anything besides him just attacking a smaller area.

Well, a good guess on what the sectional Graviole spell could be is Conditional Magic

There's a hierarchy of spells in magic, and it would go as follows: Thirds > Summons > Secondths > Conditional > Personal > Basic

It can't be Secondths, because there was no showing of Torture Pole, but it also can't be Personal, since it's clesrly more powerful. So the most reasonable answer would be that it's a Conditional Spell.

Other characters don’t have direct statements saying they’re on par with this or the spells from secondths all grow at the same level. Lance could easily be stronger than other seconds or they could be stronger than him, either way, nothing would suggests their boosts as relative to his as this only depicts their baseline being superior to his own.

Fair enough, as just scaling performances against eachother would be the better option I suppose

And I’ve been rereading and I’ve found an issue with FTL mash, not only is it an obvious outlier, but Mash is stated to be only 2x faster in this state?

Doom: “You should be able to handle me at 30%”

Domia: “At Just 30% he’s matched Mash speed”

Domia has already fought Mash and pushed him to his limits, forcing him to use UPM, he knows how fast Mash is.

Mash considers Mach 7 fast, directly stated to be 8,000kmh, and has to rely on reading the timing to actually react to this.

Domia: “They’re evenly matched”

So in terms of speed and power, Doom is equal to Mash.

Domia: “Mash is fighting seriously, he might…”

Domia tells us Mash is going all out, so this speed is equal to Mash’s “FTL” feat.

Doom: “I’ve got a good grasp on your power… At 50% I’m about as twice as fast as I was before”

The difference between 50% and 30% is 1.66x, almost 2x which fits directly with his statement of “about twice as fast” being consistent with this, as about implies close but not exactly.

Point is, Mash was forced to trick him with a Feint to react to this speed, and regardless of this, it’s already established that Mash was going all out in terms of speed and 50% Doom could match that, by going 2x faster.

Bleh, we already have problems with speed, can't we leave thus for another day for when the other CRTs get finished? It's getting harder and harder to keep up with all of this. And Doom's percentages are, very, inconsistent with how they increase.

Given that the FTL calc is a clear outlier, is never repeated by anyone who scales to that level of speed, is never done again by Mash in a even stronger state and isn’t stated in series.
This feat pretty much conflicts with the outlier rules and is contradicted by in series scaling, Mash UPM is canonically 2x faster than his base state, it should be mach 14.

I mean, there's also UPM's Punch². And then Ryoh's light stuff against a stronger Doom, which Mash was able to match after his training and coma.

 

[Maitreya12]

Guys stop arguing here if you’re gonna go nowhere on this. We can make a revision CRT sometime soonish if the scaling is that big of an issue.

I’m gonna be honest and say I mostly agree with the things like the 10x multiplier rating since from what I recall this multiplier has been used so frequently that they got characters going from baseline country level to multi continental due to this.

But Mash’s speed rating should definitely be solidly above FTL speeds considering there are actual light speed attacks being reacted to even against the “water lasers” Mash was facing. And other backing high end speed feat so I’m mostly fine with that.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Bleh, we already have problems with speed, can't we leave thus for another day for when the other CRTs get finished? It's getting harder and harder to keep up with all of this.

I was going to wait, I just wanted opinion y’alls opinion on the matter.

And Doom's percentages are, very, inconsistent with how they increase.

Maybe? Idk, but here we have a direct statement, that being the increase being about 2x aka 1.66x, so there’s no conflict here.

I mean, there's also UPM's Punch². And then Ryoh's light stuff against a stronger Doom, which Mash was able to match after his training and coma.

Punch squared isn’t a stated speed boost, its just him acting cool and throwing punches relative to the number he says.

Light magic is never confirmed to be the speed of light, and if it can keep up with a FTL character then that means the light has varying speed, meaning it can be faster or slower than any set speed, so nothing would contradict it being slower than light (a speed it’s never stated to be)

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Guys stop arguing here if you’re gonna go nowhere on this. We can make a revision CRT sometime soonish if the scaling is that big of an issue.

I’m gonna be honest and say I mostly agree with the things like the 10x multiplier rating since from what I recall this multiplier has been used so frequently that they got characters going from baseline country level to multi continental due to this.

But Mash’s speed rating should definitely be solidly above FTL speeds considering there are actual light speed attacks being reacted to even against the “water lasers” Mash was facing. And other backing high end speed feat so I’m mostly fine with that.

There's currently 3 CRTs going on, im going to be honest, this is kind of draining at this point. A bunch of crts are being made, the main person that supported Mashle and made the profiles has jumped ship, its a whole can of worms right now

 

[Maitreya12]

There's currently 3 CRTs going on, im going to be honest, this is kind of draining at this point. A bunch of crts are being made, the main person that supported Mashle and made the profiles has jumped ship, its a whole can of worms right now

I feel you man. I personally wouldn’t do a CRT right now just to give a little break on the matter (and cause school lol). Maybe sometime towards the end of spring or early summer cause I do think the scaling does need work.

Do you wanna see if I can try to get any of the other 3 CRT’s going anywhere if they’ve been pretty stagnant lately?

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I was going to wait, I just wanted opinion y’alls opinion on the matter.

Maybe? Idk, but here we have a direct statement, that being the increase being about 2x aka 1.66x, so there’s no conflict here.

I mean for later percentages. It was a conversation before, but with how Doom keeps amping himself with his percentages, it just spirals out of control.

Punch squared isn’t a stated speed boost, its just him acting cool and throwing punches relative to the number he says.

I mean, its not a stated speed boost, im saying it can be calced. It could be calced where Mash throws his maximum amount of punches in a single timeframe, like how you suggested the other feats be done.

Light magic is never confirmed to be the speed of light, and if it can keep up with a FTL character then that means the light has varying speed, meaning it can be faster or slower than any set speed, so nothing would contradict it being slower than light (a speed it’s never stated to be)

Im not saying the light is FTL, im saying that we take the baseline speed of light for Ryoh's attacks, and have Doom, Mash and anyone else that scales to those 2 be FTL, somewhat. The only problem is that one time where Ryoh bent his own light, but that was only a singular time.

I feel you man. I personally wouldn’t do a CRT right now just to give a little break on the matter (and cause school lol). Maybe sometime towards the end of spring or early summer cause I do think the scaling does need work.

Do you wanna see if I can try to get any of the other 3 CRT’s going anywhere if they’ve been pretty stagnant lately?

Please, any help is good help. There's probably calcs that could be done, general scaling help, anything will be useful. This is desperation at this point, and if the anime doesn't boost the popularity, then..... I don't know, it feels so alone here now.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

I feel you man. I personally wouldn’t do a CRT right now just to give a little break on the matter (and cause school lol). Maybe sometime towards the end of spring or early summer cause I do think the scaling does need work.

Do you wanna see if I can try to get any of the other 3 CRT’s going anywhere if they’ve been pretty stagnant lately?

Only one CRT have been applied, there’s 2 left, Mash scaling to Marg via “keeping up with him” which I’ve debunked, and Mash scaling on the scorpian and giant throw which has been agreed on and the recalcs have been evaluated, just need calc members to agree so I can apply the changes.

 

[Maitreya12]

Please, any help is good help. There's probably calcs that could be done, general scaling help, anything will be useful. This is desperation at this point, and if the anime doesn't boost the popularity, then..... I don't know, it feels so alone here now.

I gotcha I’ll see what I can do to help. Mash a pretty enjoyable series to read about so I don’t mind helping with the scaling.

Only one CRT have been applied, there’s 2 left, Mash scaling to Marg via “keeping up with him” which I’ve debunked, and Mash scaling on the scorpian and giant throw which has been agreed on and the recalcs have been evaluated, just need calc members to agree so I can apply the changes.

Can you link me each CRT please?

 

[TimmyTurnero]

I mean for later percentages. It was a conversation before, but with how Doom keeps amping himself with his percentages, it just spirals out of control.

Yeah true that, its like Dbz, where a 1.2x difference in PL can blitz and one shot people lol

I mean, its not a stated speed boost, im saying it can be calced. It could be calced where Mash throws his maximum amount of punches in a single timeframe, like how you suggested the other feats be done.

Idk though, we don’t know if his 166,000 punches blitz dude, even then, the results would be in the rela-rela+ ranged which would still lead to outlierish ranges.

Im not saying the light is FTL, im saying that we take the baseline speed of light for Ryoh's attacks, and have Doom, Mash and anyone else that scales to those 2 be FTL, somewhat. The only problem is that one time where Ryoh bent his own light, but that was only a singular time.

Theres not enough evidence to conclude that it’s light speed, and considering that people that were being blitz by someone who was blitz by the speed of sound would scale to this, it would be in the outlier range. But considering that these characters did go through a lot of training before this, I’ll back off of making this CRT as we would have some consistency then. But only if his attacks are confirmed light speed.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Yeah true that, its like Dbz, where a 1.2x difference in PL can blitz and one shot people lol

Yep

Idk though, we don’t know if his 166,000 punches blitz dude, even then, the results would be in the rela-rela+ ranged which would still lead to outlierish ranges.

I mean, UPM is a massive increase from base Mash, to where after getting easily beated by Domina's Thirds, Mash was able to easily beat him and was blitzing Domina before they really focused

Theres not enough evidence to conclude that it’s light speed, and considering that people that were being blitz by someone who was blitz by the speed of sound would scale to this, it would be in the outlier range. But considering that these characters did go through a lot of training before this, I’ll back off of making this CRT as we would have some consistency then. But only if his attacks are confirmed light speed.

Mashle really needs a guide for this kind of stuff, in the vein of Naruto or Bleach. But yeah, the only people that would definitively scale to LS and up if Ryoh's magic is literal light would be Ryoh (obviously), 70%+ Doom (able to counter the light and only got stronger after), post training Mash, and Innocent Zero, who are basically yhe god tiers

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I gotcha I’ll see what I can do to help. Mash a pretty enjoyable series to read about so I don’t mind helping with the scaling.

Thank you. If you've never used the MangaPlus app before, you could download it now and read all chapters for free if you're interested. It could also help with feat gathering.

The best feats I can think of are the supposed Forest busting statement about Brad, Lance causing a huge section of a cliffside to be cratered with his magic, the Giant's size and statement of being able to destroy the city, the Madjinns, and the shaking of Innocent Zero's floating castle. I have high hopes for the floating castle, as it has multiple comparisons to the clouds, meaning it could be gigantic.

 

[Maitreya12]

Thank you. If you've never used the MangaPlus app before, you could download it now and read all chapters for free if you're interested. It could also help with feat gathering.

Oh I’ve already read the series lol. Hence why I don’t mind helping out with the scaling since I’m already a fan.

The best feats I can think of are the supposed Forest busting statement about Brad, Lance causing a huge section of a cliffside to be cratered with his magic, the Giant's size and statement of being able to destroy the city, the Madjinns, and the shaking of Innocent Zero's floating castle. I have high hopes for the floating castle, as it has multiple comparisons to the clouds, meaning it could be gigantic.

There was also things like Mash flicking away a giant scorpion into the air that got like mountain level results.

The floating castle also seems massive and Mash made like a huge attack comparable in size to the thing so that should be good too.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

There was also things like Mash flicking away a giant scorpion into the air that got like mountain level results.

What the hell? People just be doing anythiny

 

[AnAverageUsername]

What the hell? People just be doing anythiny

I think they meant the Town level cslc and got it mixed up,

Oh I’ve already read the series lol. Hence why I don’t mind helping out with the scaling since I’m already a fan.

There was also things like Mash flicking away a giant scorpion into the air that got like mountain level results.

Which is the current calc under scrutiny and might become High 8-C

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Mash's resistance section is empty, is that right? I don't remember if all the resistances removed were literally all he had.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Mash's resistance section is empty, is that right? I don't remember if all the resistances removed were literally all he had.

They were sadly

 

[Phsccarvalho]

They were sadly

Sorry, I do not understand. Were the removed resistances really all Mash had? If so, how sad.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Sorry, I do not understand. Were the removed resistances really all Mash had? If so, how sad.

Sadly they are, he needs more feats.

 

[KobsterHope07]

So why is the Resistance tab is still there if there is nothing there? To troll people?

 

[Epiccheev]

He resists having resistances

 

[TimmyTurnero]

So why is the Resistance tab is still there if there is nothing there? To troll people?

Considering his fight with Zero has just started, he can gain anything in the next chapter, I left it just incase we need to add more resistances.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Considering his fight with Zero has just started, he can gain anything in the next chapter, I left it just incase we need to add more resistances.

Not time acceleration, that's for sure

Man, the author is great at not having asspulls and unnecessary forms that aren't played for comedy

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Anyways, anyone willing to calculate the size of tne fortress, as well as when it shook and how Mash pushed Doom all the way through it?

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Anyways, anyone willing to calculate the size of tne fortress, as well as when it shook and how Mash pushed Doom all the way through it?

If you can provide me with good enough scans I’ll make an attempt, rn I’m finna calc some feats I found.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
And 6. https://imgur.com/a/k9Nlt9H

 

[AnAverageUsername]

If you can provide me with good enough scans I’ll make an attempt, rn I’m finna calc some feats I found.

Doom gets pushed

Castle shakes

1.
2.
3.

Sadly, 3 won't work. Dark magic is duraneg, BFRing anything out of existence and into the void

4.
5.
And 6. https://imgur.com/a/k9Nlt9H

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Doom gets pushed

Castle shakes

Sadly, 3 won't work. Dark magic is duraneg, BFRing anything out of existence and into the void

Darkness magic can have different attacks, it’s not always stated to send things to the “void” we see in this scan that this attack is produced by the Wand of Beginnings, and visibly produced a shockwave which breaks the ground, the level of destruction (dust and steam is present) depicts that this area was destroyed instead of dura negged.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Darkness magic can have different attacks, it’s not always stated to send things to the “void” we see in this scan that this attack is produced by the Wand of Beginnings, and visibly produced a shockwave which breaks the ground, the level of destruction (dust and steam is present) depicts that this area was destroyed instead of dura negged.

Ah, neat

Im guessing its vaporization, as there's steam?

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Ah, neat

Im guessing its vaporization, as there's steam?

There’s a lot more dust than steam, so maybe 80% for pulv and 20 for vape? Eyeballing this feat looks like Mountain level

 

[KobsterHope07]

Raw for 143 is out

IZ pretty much get hit by Mash a lot of times

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Lookiny good so far, no notable feats

 

[AnAverageUsername]

More evidence as to why Mash is brokenly skilled

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Lookiny good so far, no notable feats

We'll probably get some next chapter now that IZ is amped by the eclipse

Also, how long has it been since the raid began?