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Mash Burnedead and the Devil King (Mash vs Lucifero)

BlackLight said:
first of all natch shadows are consistently non-physical/tangible things as you can see here, and Here.
Click to expand...
What is intangibility, something that is accepted. Nothing more and nothing less
BlackLight said:
Although it is true that some of his shadows can be made tangible or physical, that depends more on the spell used.
Click to expand...
What the **** are you talking about. None of this supports that all shadows are concepts. Like, damn, by that you would be saying that not only of Nacht's spell are literal concepts, but literally every shadow of the verse
BlackLight said:
and not general when the word 'shadow' is being used instead of 'world of shadows'
Click to expand...
"Even shadows and light... And even... Invisible concepts"

Even Nacht differentiates between the two. The monument of atonement is something without life and death, without end, something that Nacht's normal shadows never showed. To consider that both are equal is pure wank

Two things, by the way
  1. This is not accepted on the profiles
  2. Is just NPI, nothing useful against a simple muscle guy like Mash
BlackLight said:
In Black Clover it is mentioned that due to Conceptual Manipulation Rougue's Destiny Manipulation can be counteracted.

Fun fact: According to Morris, who has conceptual manipulation Lucifer's gravity cannot be altered.

What I don't understand is why you wouldn't consider vanessa's mention literal, I honestly hope you're not basing it on 'Somehow' because it's clearly a plot factor/Plot armor.

and Lucifer does not necessarily have to affect destiny to counteract it, he is affected by something superior. the concept of destiny.
Click to expand...

and
Two things, by the way
  1. This is not accepted on the profiles
  2. Is just NPI, nothing useful against a simple muscle guy like Mash
Click to expand...
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
What is intangibility, something that is accepted. Nothing more and nothing less

What the **** are you talking about. None of this supports that all shadows are concepts. Like, damn, by that you would be saying that not only of Nacht's spell are literal concepts, but literally every shadow of the verse

"Even shadows and light... And even... Invisible concepts"

Even Nacht differentiates between the two. The monument of atonement is something without life and death, without end, something that Nacht's normal shadows never showed. To consider that both are equal is pure wank

Two things, by the way
  1. This is not accepted on the profiles
  2. Is just NPI, nothing useful against a simple muscle guy like Mash


and
Click to expand...
well, here if I grant you a point. certainly in the forum the only valid thing to argue is what was decided by consensus to make the character's profile.

however, you also have to accept that a profile IS NOT the objective nor generalized truth regarding a character.

you lose the general point of the debate when you try to rely on an ambiguous mention that does not support in the least such claim about a specific spell.

Anyway, My first comment, I also make it clear that I'm not talking strictly about conceptual manipulation. although I do think it is after reviewing the context.
 
BlackLight said:
well, here if I grant you a point. certainly in the forum the only valid thing to argue is what was decided by consensus to make the character's profile.

however, you also have to accept that a profile IS NOT the objective nor generalized truth regarding a character.

you lose the general point of the debate when you try to rely on an ambiguous mention that does not support in the least such claim about a specific spell.

Anyway, My first comment, I also make it clear that I'm not talking strictly about conceptual manipulation. although I do think it is after reviewing the context.
Click to expand...
So uh, sorry to ask, but are you going to vote? And if so, which option?
 
BlackLight said:
however, you also have to accept that a profile IS NOT the objective nor generalized truth regarding a character.
Click to expand...
This is true, but not entirely. You can add things that don't contradict the profiles (Such as feats about stamina), but not insane new things that don't exist on the pages. This is how it works. Otherwise any Vs Thread would be chaos, because 99% of the debates would be about the characteristics of a character instead of debating about the match itself; You, in short, can't assert things like Lucifero being capable to control literal concepts without being in the profile, otherwise I could also use the fact that Mash has 6-A durability as an argument, but since it's not on the page, I'm not going to assert anything about that. If you disagree or want to add something new to a specific character, go and make a CRT about it. Here, a Vs Thread, is no place for that kind of thing, especially when what you claim has been rejected in the past.

And as I mentioned before, Lucifero's gravity being on a conceptual level or whatever is totally irrelevant, since characters like Yami, Natch (You can see that the playground starts to be affected by gravity, as there are shaking effects), Yuno and Mereoleona are shown to be able to move in such gravity through physical strenght, without needing anything specific to fight with. So I see no point in you saying "Bro, Lucifero crushes fate itself and concepts", something that honestly doesn't mean shit. Literally nothing. The gravity doesn't make the characters that are affected by Lucifero instantly die, it doesn't make them instantly erased from existence, it doesn't make them lose their powers, it doesn't do anything special except the extra weight gained. You, before you propose an instakill move, you need to prove how it affects the characters
Arkenis said:
Not to mention but Mash's stamina all about withstanding and enduring pain and attacks when Lucifero is about being above people who lasted in fights for 3 days and only lost due to magic nullification and not being outlasted. So really I see Lucifero lasting longer, I see him outhaxing.
Click to expand...
Yeah, you don't know anything about Mash, so I don't know why you are voting instead of asking first.

Mash is able to defeat the Knights of Meliadoul up to level 10 while fighting non-stop for 4 days with no food or water. The Knights created by Meliadoul are from different levels, with the higher level being considered impossible to win for below levels under any circumstances, with the only chance to defeat a higher level if you evolves to the next knight during the fight. And yet, we can see that Mash can fight on par against higher levels even though they are immensely stronger, use weapons (Some with range attacks), and possess varieties of magical powers such as invisibility. It is later shown that level 100, the strongest of the knights, has an immense size advantage, which would increase the range of attacks and limit what Mash could do. And yet Mash is able to fight him nonstop until in the end, he defeats such an enemy with a single punch. This alone automatically surpasses any stamina (And skill) feat in BC. Not only that, but he is notably superior to any of Meliadoul's students, who fought for 1 year against the knights, having only a rest every 10 knights that lasts a few minutes

Damn, even fodders like Dot and Lance are capable to go a whole week without sleeping and with no food, having only a few milliliters of water which if they are not careful can quickly run out, while being constantly attacked from all directions, and at the same time needing to use telekinesis to sustain the water glasses.

There is not a single tiny chance that Lucifero has a better stamina than Mash
 
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LIFE_OF_KING said:
This is true, but not entirely. You can add things that don't contradict the profiles (Such as feats about stamina), but not insane new things that don't exist on the pages. This is how it works. Otherwise any Vs Thread would be chaos, because 99% of the debates would be about the characteristics of a character instead of debating about the match itself; You, in short, can't assert things like Lucifero being capable to control literal concepts without being in the profile, otherwise I could also use the fact that Mash has 6-A durability as an argument, but since it's not on the page, I'm not going to assert anything about that. If you disagree or want to add something new to a specific character, go and make a CRT about it. Here, a Vs Thread, is no place for that kind of thing, especially when what you claim has been rejected in the past.

And as I mentioned before, Lucifero's gravity being on a conceptual level or whatever is totally irrelevant, since characters like Yami, Natch (You can see that the playground starts to be affected by gravity, as there are shaking effects), Yuno and Mereoleona are shown to be able to move in such gravity through physical strenght, without needing anything specific to fight with. So I see no point in you saying "Bro, Lucifero crushes fate itself and concepts", something that honestly doesn't mean shit. Literally nothing. The gravity doesn't make the characters that are affected by Lucifero instantly die, it doesn't make them instantly erased from existence, it doesn't make them lose their powers, it doesn't do anything special except the extra weight gained. You, before you propose an instakill move, you need to prove how it affects the characters

Yeah, you don't know anything about Mash, so I don't know why you are voting instead of asking first.

Mash is able to defeat the Knights of Meliadoul up to level 10 while fighting non-stop for 4 days with no food or water. The Knights created by Meliadoul are from different levels, with the higher level being considered impossible to win for below levels under any circumstances, with the only chance to defeat a higher level if you evolves to the next knight during the fight. And yet, we can see that Mash can fight on par against higher levels even though they are immensely stronger, use weapons (Some with range attacks), and possess varieties of magical powers such as invisibility. It is later shown that level 100, the strongest of the knights, has an immense size advantage, which would increase the range of attacks and limit what Mash could do. And yet Mash is able to fight him nonstop until in the end, he defeats such an enemy with a single punch. This alone automatically surpasses any stamina (And skill) feat in BC. Not only that, but he is notably superior to any of Meliadoul's students, who fought for 1 year against the knights, having only a rest every 10 knights that lasts a few minutes

Damn, even fodders like Dot and Lance are capable to go a whole week without sleeping and with no food, having only a few milliliters of water which if they are not careful can quickly run out, while being constantly attacked from all directions, and at the same time needing to use telekinesis to sustain the water glasses.

There is not a single tiny chance that Lucifero has a better stamina than Mash
Click to expand...
I go off the page, if it not on the page then it should be since this is actual stamina feats.
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
Honestly, I don't want to continue this since I'm basically doing a revision for Mashle
Click to expand...
We are not doing this again, the revision you speak of will only happen when you complete 15-something profiles, yeah?
Arnoldstone18 said:
Making a CRT that could slightly tip the sides in Lucifero’s favor
Click to expand...
What would this be? Just wondering. Also, in case this thread likely dies, which is likely, any other BC character Mash can fight? I tried Asta but Mash stomped.
 
AnAverageUsername said:
We are not doing this again, the revision you speak of will only happen when you complete 15-something profiles, yeah?

What would this be? Just wondering. Also, in case this thread likely dies, which is likely, any other BC character Mash can fight? I tried Asta but Mash stomped.
Click to expand...
Mash stomps all the characters individually

He should be call Chadsh instead
 
AnAverageUsername said:
Should have expected that, fair enough

So any other BC characters I should use for a match against Mash?
Click to expand...
Theyre all probably going to get stomped anyway. Maybe Yami and/or Nacht has a chance or Mereleona herself with her adaptation. Maybe even Jack with his slashes adapting to anything even space manipulation, gravity and instant regeneration.

Actually do a 2 on 1. Yami and Nacht vs Mash. If Mash wins it will be a mssive blow to Fandom lol, and if Yami and Nacht win, I guess the excuse would be handicap and noone would care. If not then Mereleona same tier.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Theyre all probably going to get stomped anyway. Maybe Yami and/or Nacht has a chance or Mereleona herself with her adaptation. Maybe even Jack with his slashes adapting to anything even space manipulation, gravity and instant regeneration.

Actually do a 2 on 1. Yami and Nacht vs Mash. If Mash wins it will be a mssive blow to Fandom lol, and if Yami and Nacht win, I guess the excuse would be handicap and noone would care. If not then Mereleona same tier.
Click to expand...
Forgot 2v1's were a thing. Dont know why it'd be a blow to to the fandom, but I'm doing it anyways.

Forgot to ask, what's their AP?
 
Last edited:
I just re-read the thread. So Mash has no speed amp and he’s just using agility and analytical prediction to dodge EE?

I might change my vote. Might…
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
I just re-read the thread. So Mash has no speed amp and he’s just using agility and analytical prediction to win?

I might change my vote. Might…
Click to expand...
He does have a speed amp, actually. Big Bang Dash, it's the Muscle "Magic" of the hamstrings. With this, he can blitz his opponent's perception to those who could previously react to him. One such example was Lance Crown, who was blitzed. And again, Mash's Analytical Prediction it whatever it's called, allowed him to consistently dodge someone who could blitz him.

I could allow Mash to access Unlimited Physical Mode where he becomes ludicrously faster, or I can start him in it, where he still has an insane speed amp through Punch Squared.
 
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