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And then he throws the heart hundreds of km away 
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Mash Burnedead and the Devil King (Mash vs Lucifero)
- Thread starter AnAverageUsername
- Start date
- 11,861
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- Thread starter
- #42
Honestly if it's any fairer I can change Luci to his full manifestation and Mash to his Unlimited Physical Mode
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Isn’t Lucifero fully manifested here? He won’t be running away
Kazuma_kuwabara
He/Him- 4,893
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The same happens, Lucifero is 2 times stronger and Mash at least gets a 2 times boost for what I am reading in his profile
This fight is inconclusive, Lucifero wins if starts aling and he is able to land a black hole and Mash wins if Lucifero is not smart enought to literally stay still and let Mash tire himself while he is napping as a heart, if he is thrown, he could regenerate and teleport/fly
So I prefer this to be inconclusive, because in character, both would just stop the fight, literally nothing interesting happens when someone tanks everything and the other just dodges everything
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- Thread starter
- #46
Hm? No, I swear I put Luci as half manifestation, full power.... I think? I need to recheck
Nevermind,, i did
Kazuma_kuwabara
He/Him- 4,893
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Luci is half power at full power, not fully manifested
Edit: Tabata trying not to do a Younger toguro with "100% of 100%"
- 11,861
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- Thread starter
- #48
I'll count that as a vote for incon
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- #49
I mean, that is what the profile says. Eh?
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I still think Lucifero’s EE would tag Mash at full powered manifestation eventually
- 11,861
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- Thread starter
- #51
Are you talking about half manifestation full power, or his full manifestation?
Also, quick thing to note, Mash has speed amps of his own, such as the Big Bang Dash, which allowed him to overcome the reaction of someone who could, well, react to him.
- 9,390
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I know mash can dodge them… stamina?
oh and I’m talking about Full power Full manifestation
- 11,861
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- Thread starter
- #53
He was able to fight non-stop for a month while constantly facing enemies that are supposed to be much stronger than him one after the other
Is Lucifero's profile messed up or something? It says theres a half manifestation, full power Lucifero in the profile. Is that a mistake or something?oh and I’m talking about Full power Full manifestation
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Okay this guy is a monster lol.
He is just VASTLY superior to Natch who fought Asta for 3 days straight. In my opinion, since Dante’s mana felt endless, Lucifero’s mana would be on par with Mash, especially when he realize none of his attacks would work except EE.
but that would be wrong to use my opinion here so Mash >>>
This looks like an Incon.
Nah you're just reading it wrong I think.
His large country key is full power full manifested ill check
Edit; yep I'm right
- 11,861
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- Thread starter
- #55
He really is
Counted
Huh, for some reason theres a country level+ key that's said to be used with his full power, even though it's in the half manifested key. Odd.
- 9,390
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Okay so
There is
Incomplete and NOT full power
Then incomplete and FULL power ( country+)
Then complete and not full power
Finally Complete and Full power which Lucifero’s large country comes from
- 11,861
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- Thread starter
- #57
Yeah I've been using the country+ stuff
- 11,861
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- #58
Bump
- 11,861
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- Thread starter
- #59
Bump
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- #60
Bump
- 72
- 18
bruh, i really have to get back to mashle.
still about the versus:
1)Mash can't kill Lucifer.
2)50% Lucifer has a conceptual/spatial manipulation feat.
the problem would be how Lucifer would react to mash.
still about the versus:
1)Mash can't kill Lucifer.
2)50% Lucifer has a conceptual/spatial manipulation feat.
the problem would be how Lucifer would react to mash.
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- #62
If the spatial manipulation is about the black hole, then it's been discussed that Mash can dodge it, and can definitely last long enough in a fight.
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nope, i'm talking about the destruction of natch and yami's playground.
- 11,579
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The playground is not conceptual
And Lucifero affecting concepts is non-physical interaction (Although he never did that)
And Lucifero affecting concepts is non-physical interaction (Although he never did that)
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- #65
Context, i dont read Black Clover
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- #67
Well if its aura like in nature, then Mash could sense it like how he senses IZ's EE stuff.
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No. Natch shadows were defined as not existing in conventional terms. and to destroy them conceptual damage is needed.
Besides, Vanessa herself mentions that Lucifer can crush destiny itself.
Lucifero also has a feat destroying the world of dreams if I remember correctly.
according to the author Destroy shadows is equal to conceptual manipulation.
affect the destiny is equal to conceptual manipulation.
and affect the world of dreams is a conceptual manipulation feat.
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This is a specific spell that literally sacrifices Natch's life. Not something that applies to his normal attacks without evidence. And, even if it were applied as a conceptual manipulation, it would not be useful in combat against someone who can simply punch you hard
Vanessa is not referring in the literal sense, she is simply saying that Lucifero is able to crush her spell, which honestly is pathetically limited. She is not literally saying that Luci can change fate. And even if that were the case, it would be Fatehax negation, nothing more and nothing less
Damn, Nacht can even resist gravity through sheer strength, who is Class T
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You are clearly ignoring or misrepresenting the context of the story.
first of all natch shadows are consistently non-physical/tangible things as you can see here, and Here.
Although it is true that some of his shadows can be made tangible or physical, that depends more on the spell used. yet another reason to support this is that the author does not differentiate between real/natural elements and magic elemesnts.
In fact, in the entire manga, only 3 characters destroyed shadows, and Asta's does not count because it is a magic nullification.
itself it's too silly to try to say that natch was talking about the spell he just used, and not general when the word 'shadow' is being used instead of 'world of shadows'
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In Black Clover it is mentioned that due to Conceptual Manipulation Rougue's Destiny Manipulation can be counteracted.
Fun fact: According to Morris, who has conceptual manipulation Lucifer's gravity cannot be altered.
What I don't understand is why you wouldn't consider vanessa's mention literal, I honestly hope you're not basing it on 'Somehow' because it's clearly a plot factor/Plot armor.
and Lucifer does not necessarily have to affect destiny to counteract it, he is affected by something superior. the concept of destiny.
concept ≠phenomenon or effect
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- #72
So how is this spell useful? Mash could dodge it.
Arkenis
They/Them- 17,295
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Gravity > Fate Manip black clover? Is this Jojo?
Anyway, I think Lucifero probably takes this. I don't see Mash being able to get past his regeneration but I could be wrong. Not to mention but Mash's stamina all about withstanding and enduring pain and attacks when Lucifero is about being above people who lasted in fights for 3 days and only lost due to magic nullification and not being outlasted. So really I see Lucifero lasting longer, I see him outhaxing.
Anyway, I think Lucifero probably takes this. I don't see Mash being able to get past his regeneration but I could be wrong. Not to mention but Mash's stamina all about withstanding and enduring pain and attacks when Lucifero is about being above people who lasted in fights for 3 days and only lost due to magic nullification and not being outlasted. So really I see Lucifero lasting longer, I see him outhaxing.
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- #74
You caught up to Mashle? Because Mash can last much, much longer than 3 days. A month in fact. He can last a full month under gruelling training that has the possibility of killing him just from how intense it was, all while fighting non stop. And while Mash may not be able to put Lucifero down for good, that doesn't mean he cant stalemate the devil.
But I'll count this vote anyways.
Arkenis
They/Them- 17,295
- 8,014
not on page so didn't know. but that's good.
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- #76
Yeah apperently there's supposed to be a big Mashle revision, but I don't know when that is.
Kazuma_kuwabara
He/Him- 4,893
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I would want to add that Demons does not need to eat or rest, so I suppose that they regenerate Mana from the nature like other mages and that regeneration can make him last longer than usual if he decides to not do anything magical
And if there is a Mashle revision, we should wait if anything
And if there is a Mashle revision, we should wait if anything
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- Thread starter
- #78
Not doing anything magical would just not be attacking right? If that's the case, then he'd probably just be sitting around like a punching bag.
Again, nobody knows when this will happen except Life_of_King.
Kazuma_kuwabara
He/Him- 4,893
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The perfect punching bag, Mashl would become 6-A for training with LuciBag
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- #80
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