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Mash Burnedead and the Devil Host's Rematch (Mash vs Asta)

Alright let’s kick it back up.

So are there any new arguments? Summarize the reason why everyone is spamming mash FRA
 
Alright let’s kick it back up.

So are there any new arguments? Summarize the reason why everyone is spamming mash FRA
I mean, nothing else has been said besides adding the fact that Mash's LS is ginormous. People are just voting for the reasons stated for Mash.
 
I mean, nothing else has been said besides adding the fact that Mash's LS is ginormous. People are just voting for the reasons stated for Mash.
Okay so I’ll start from your last reply to me

Yeah, Asta is stronger, but the reason why previous matches turned out to be stomps in Mash's favor is because Mash was too skilled as well as them being even. So if Asta is more powerful here, then the skill from Mash will balance it out.

Mash's skill is very extraordinary, as when he fought Doom, who was FTE to Mash at that point, Mash could still dodge due to his analytical prediction, dodging multiple strikes till he found an opening to hit him. And if Asta does end up stabbing Mash, that's going to be bad for Asta, since Mash's control over his own muscles is so extreme that he can hold said sword in place to continue beating on his opponent. Same thing happened in his fight against Abyss, where it also showcases his extreme pain resilience, as he was perfectly fine even though he was receiving numerous amounts of deep slashes that were causing his blood to spray out. Plus, Mash's LS is monstrous, so if Mash gets a hold around Asta's neck, its game over at that point.

Asta at point is much stronger than the calc. He is much stronger than Magna who is stronger than golems that gave Leo trouble. So the gap is more than 5.4x.

So how will Mashle skill fair against an extremely powerful opponent capable of dual swordsmanship styles that allows Asta to fight instinctively, predict the opponent’s next move by reading their life force, throw the opponent’s senses off, move in ways that can’t be predicted. And what is stopping Asta from stealing Mash’s skills over the course of battle.

Additionally, how is Mr. Burnedead going to bypass slashing attacks that’s are 5.4x stronger than him with just his muscles? Also if Asta chooses to stab with the size of his demon slayer, how is Mash going to keep fighting with multiple vital organ damage? And if Mr. Burnedead still survives that and crushes his muscle to keep the sword in place, what stops Asta from grabbing another sword and continuing the fight?

Lastly the LS is the only issue Asta has that can be avoided by simply avoiding Masg in general.
 
Okay so I’ll start from your last reply to me
Fine by me
Asta at point is much stronger than the calc. He is much stronger than Magna who is stronger than golems that gave Leo trouble. So the gap is more than 5.4x.
Eh, doesn't seem to be that much of a bigger gap through upscaling. It was already a 5.3... something something gap, so as explained before with Mash's skill, I believe it would even out based on what has been said here as well as previous matches.
So how will Mashle skill fair against an extremely powerful opponent capable of dual swordsmanship styles that allows Asta to fight instinctively, predict the opponent’s next move by reading their life force, throw the opponent’s senses off, move in ways that can’t be predicted. And what is stopping Asta from stealing Mash’s skills over the course of battle.
First of all, I'm just going to say that calling Mash "Mashle" makes me die inside a little, but that's not important.

Mash has fought opponents who would be much more powerful than himself in this "held back" state already, don't know what it exactly call it. Mash has fought an opponent that has used a sword before, but hasn't fought anyone with dual swords. However, it would probably soon fall flat, considering Mash just needs to see an attack a few times to be able to counter it easily, such as what happened in his fight with Cell War and Levis. And by instinctively, you mean without thinking? Because Mash has pretty great instincts himself. He has the instincts of a wild beast and can react to trouble even if his brain is disconnected from his body, and can sense imminent death and danger through his muscles alone. And Asta can predict the next attack of someone by sensing their life force? Seems like it would just be a battle of predicting the next attack of eachother. And while throwing Mash's senses off could work for a bit, Mash's adaptation rate is fast, so he may be able to "power through" and change up the timing of his attacks, like he did against Levis' Magnetic Armor. And how exactly does Asta prevent himself from being predicted? More context would be needed to fully understand this. And the thing that's stopping Asta from stealing Mash's skills wouldn't be a thing really, but I don't think it would matter much when Mash already knows his own skills.
Additionally, how is Mr. Burnedead going to bypass slashing attacks that’s are 5.4x stronger than him with just his muscles?
He wouldn't really, except increase the density of his muscles to becomes somewhat more resistant to this slashing. But it's not as if he's going to stand there and take it.
Also if Asta chooses to stab with the size of his demon slayer, how is Mash going to keep fighting with multiple vital organ damage?
The same way he shrugged off getting impaled by a trident without any lasting damage, which should have damaged not only his spine but also multiple organs.
And if Mr. Burnedead still survives that and crushes his muscle to keep the sword in place, what stops Asta from grabbing another sword and continuing the fight?
Well at one point in the story in his fight against Abyss, he grabbed their sword and held them in place to just wail on them. Not to mention that even when limited to standing in place, he's still able to dodge multiple complex attacks from a sword user using both their sword and some force. So even if he was stuck on the sword, there's a high possibility he can continue to dodge any other sword strikes that could come his way.
Lastly the LS is the only issue Asta has that can be avoided by simply avoiding Masg in general.
Avoiding Mash I'm general is hard because he has multiple forms of travel. Not only can he run on land, he can fly around as well as use underground traversal. And if Mash even gets a grip on Asta, its game over from there, as Mash isn't afraid to instantly incapacitate his foes by flexing his muscles around their neck, causing the opponents to hallucinate and lose conciousness almost instantly.

But if you want a more coherent argument, you should get LIFE_OF_KING over here, as he's the one who makes up the arguments for Mashle. I just make the matches and try to defend with my lesser knowledge.
 
Eh, doesn't seem to be that much of a bigger gap through upscaling. It was already a 5.3... something something gap, so as explained before with Mash's skill, I believe it would even out based on what has been said here as well as previous matches.

link me to the thread, I want to see arguments made by BC supporters.

but yeah Asta upscales for reasons I mentioned. 5.3x gap is already big by itself anyway.

First of all, I'm just going to say that calling Mash "Mashle" makes me die inside a little, but that's not important.

Mash has fought opponents who would be much more powerful than himself in this "held back" state already, don't know what it exactly call it. Mash has fought an opponent that has used a sword before, but hasn't fought anyone with dual swords. However, it would probably soon fall flat, considering Mash just needs to see an attack a few times to be able to counter it easily, such as what happened in his fight with Cell War and Levis. And by instinctively, you mean without thinking? Because Mash has pretty great instincts himself. He has the instincts of a wild beast and can react to trouble even if his brain is disconnected from his body, and can sense imminent death and danger through his muscles alone. And Asta can predict the next attack of someone by sensing their life force? Seems like it would just be a battle of predicting the next attack of eachother. And while throwing Mash's senses off could work for a bit, Mash's adaptation rate is fast, so he may be able to "power through" and change up the timing of his attacks, like he did against Levis' Magnetic Armor. And how exactly does Asta prevent himself from being predicted? More context would be needed to fully understand this. And the thing stopping Asta from stealing Mash's skills wouldn't be a thing, but I don't think it would matter much when Mash already knows his own skills.

My apologies for referring to Mr. Burnedead as Mashle.

Questions:

1. From his page it seems like his held back state jumps tiers, I assume youre referring his bracelets right? So if he stops holding back slightly won't he jump to a new tier?

2. Has Mr. Burnedead ever adapted to things that throw off his senses before? Because it seems like he would be struggling to even make out what attack he wants to adapt to before actually, y'know, adapting.

3. If Asta can easily predict Mash's next move, how can Mash predict Asta's if Asta's swordsmanship (from question 2) prevents him from doing so? Doesn't utilize his senses to make predictions?

At least it is guaranteed that Asta will land blows, and Mash should struggle to adapt given that his senses are thrown off. And Asta should last long enough to defeat him. Asta should be able to adapt to his skills in the span of time Mr. Burnedead tries to adapt too. Unlike the last match, Asta wasn't stronger than him, right? So this battle ends in like 2, 3 hits, I can only compromise to 5. And with dual swords, Asta should land more hits in quick succession.


. I wonder how much beating he can take from a character this strong without breaking the rules and jumping tiers by taking his bracelet off or something

He wouldn't really, except increase the density of his muscles to becomes somewhat more resistant to this slashing. But it's not as if he's going to stand there and take it.

I honestly doubt he would. I'm sure he will take the first hit seeing that he can't keep up with Asta's dual swordsmanship (predicting, ******* his senses, and adapting to his fighting style) as explained directly above. Then he will do that density thing but I doubt it would be as effective as shown in the manga against Asta.

The same way he shrugged off getting impaled by a trident without any lasting damage, which should have damaged not only his spine but also multiple organs.

Fair enough, but he is going to get hit often early in the match.

Well at one point in the story in his fight against Abyss, he grabbed their sword and held them in place to just wail on them. Not to mention that even when limited to standing in place, he's still able to dodge multiple complex attacks from a sword user using both their sword and some force. So even if he was stuck on the sword, there's a high possibility he can continue to dodge any other sword strikes that could come his way.

Fair enough but you haven't seen the argument I made on why he wouldn't be able to dodge easily, so I
i'll wait for your response. Note: Asta's accelerated development applies to his swordsmanship abilities too.

Avoiding Mash I'm general is hard because he has multiple forms of travel. Not only can he run on land, he can fly around as well as use underground traversal. And if Mash even gets a grip on Asta, its game over from there, as Mash isn't afraid to instantly incapacitate his foes by flexing his muscles around their neck, causing the opponents to hallucinate and lose conciousness almost instantly.

But if you want a more coherent argument, you should get LIFE_OF_KING over here, as he's the one who makes up the arguments for Mashle. I just make the matches and try to defend with my lesser knowledge.

Asta has better flight mobility with his demon slayer and he can predict mash's movements underground. Yeah, that's a valid wincon for Mash if he can get past all of Asta's power and swordsmanship skill. I do want to know if Mr. Burnedead's held back state would make him jump tiers if he gets "less held back"


I'm cool with waiting for Life_of_king.
 
link me to the thread, I want to see arguments made by BC supporters.
You were there as well....
but yeah Asta upscales for reasons I mentioned. 5.3x gap is already big by itself anyway.
Yeah, not calling it small, just saying it doesn't seem like that much of a bigger increase
My apologies for referring to Mr. Burnedead as Mashle.

Questions:

1. From his page it seems like his held back state jumps tiers, I assume youre referring his bracelets right? So if he stops holding back slightly won't he jump to a new tier?

2. Has Mr. Burnedead ever adapted to things that throw off his senses before? Because it seems like he would be struggling to even make out what attack he wants to adapt to before actually, y'know, adapting.

3. If Asta can easily predict Mash's next move, how can Mash predict Asta's if Asta's swordsmanship (from question 2) prevents him from doing so? Doesn't utilize his senses to make predictions?

At least it is guaranteed that Asta will land blows, and Mash should struggle to adapt given that his senses are thrown off. And Asta should last long enough to defeat him. Asta should be able to adapt to his skills in the span of time Mr. Burnedead tries to adapt too. Unlike the last match, Asta wasn't stronger than him, right? So this battle ends in like 2, 3 hits, I can only compromise to 5. And with dual swords, Asta should land more hits in quick succession.


. I wonder how much beating he can take from a character this strong without breaking the rules and jumping tiers by taking his bracelet off or something



I honestly doubt he would. I'm sure he will take the first hit seeing that he can't keep up with Asta's dual swordsmanship (predicting, ******* his senses, and adapting to his fighting style) as explained directly above. Then he will do that density thing but I doubt it would be as effective as shown in the manga against Asta.



Fair enough, but he is going to get hit often early in the match.



Fair enough but you haven't seen the argument I made on why he wouldn't be able to dodge easily, so I
i'll wait for your response. Note: Asta's accelerated development applies to his swordsmanship abilities too.



Asta has better flight mobility with his demon slayer and he can predict mash's movements underground. Yeah, that's a valid wincon for Mash if he can get past all of Asta's power and swordsmanship skill. I do want to know if Mr. Burnedead's held back state would make him jump tiers if he gets "less held back"


I'm cool with waiting for Life_of_king.
Yeah, I'm currently tired since it's almost 11 at the moment. I'll try to respond to these points in the morning if you dont mind.
 
Yeah, I'm currently tired since it's almost 11 at the moment. I'll try to respond to these points in the morning if you dont mind.

And I was just complimenting your speed at responding. I was flabbergasted dropping my laptop and seeing the notification on my phone LOL


When you're asleep I'll check this out. I'll probably be asleep too when you wake up.
 
link me to the thread, I want to see arguments made by BC supporters.

but yeah Asta upscales for reasons I mentioned. 5.3x gap is already big by itself anyway.



My apologies for referring to Mr. Burnedead as Mashle.

Questions:

1. From his page it seems like his held back state jumps tiers, I assume youre referring his bracelets right? So if he stops holding back slightly won't he jump to a new tier?
Yeah, that's his Bracelets. I guess he would jump tiers of he were to change it, though he did show a degree of ease when he finally threw that Giant into the air, though Life_of_king is the one who knows the scaling in fool, so eh.
2. Has Mr. Burnedead ever adapted to things that throw off his senses before? Because it seems like he would be struggling to even make out what attack he wants to adapt to before actually, y'know, adapting.
As said before, there is the Levis example, but that may be iffy.
3. If Asta can easily predict Mash's next move, how can Mash predict Asta's if Asta's swordsmanship (from question 2) prevents him from doing so? Doesn't utilize his senses to make predictions?
Mash's predictions come from his analyzation of his enemies attacks as well as his beastly instincts, where even his own muscles warn him of danger like incoming death and the power of his opponents. Unless Asta's sense manipulation or whatever it's called can effects Mash's muscles, I don't really think it would help.
At least it is guaranteed that Asta will land blows, and Mash should struggle to adapt given that his senses are thrown off.
Yeah, I'm not saying Mash is a dodge god, at least I think I haven't, but again, Mash's adaptation to attacks is quite fast, as he's able to overcome attacks by seeing them previously once.
And Asta should last long enough to defeat him.
Eh, how long can Asta fight? Iirc, Mash can fight for a months straight against 100 opponents that were much stronger than him to the point where he had no choice to adapt and grow stronger to overcome them.
Asta should be able to adapt to his skills in the span of time Mr. Burnedead tries to adapt too.
I'd say they could be even in this regard then, and it would mainly come down to stamina. I do think that Mash's stamina + ability to tank attacks + density manipulation could help him survive an onslaught of attacks for a while.
Unlike the last match, Asta wasn't stronger than him, right? So this battle ends in like 2, 3 hits, I can only compromise to 5
Yeah, which is why I find this match to be much more even then the last fights, where Mash and Asta pasta basically even, and Mash only stomping because of his skills.
. And with dual swords, Asta should land more hits in quick succession.
Which Mash could sense, due to his uncanny ability to sense the power of his opponents as well as imminent guess. Sorry if I'm starting to sound like a broken record.
. I wonder how much beating he can take from a character this strong without breaking the rules and jumping tiers by taking his bracelet off or something
Well he's only allowed to take off the bracelets in dire situations due to his promise to his adoptive pops. I could have allowed Mash to take off his brace let's and use his full potential, but I don't think I can
I honestly doubt he would. I'm sure he will take the first hit seeing that he can't keep up with Asta's dual swordsmanship (predicting, ******* his senses, and adapting to his fighting style) as explained directly above. Then he will do that density thing but I doubt it would be as effective as shown in the manga against Asta.
Ah, I swear you've read it? Anyways, yeah, Asta has a pot of advantages, my main point is Mash's ability to last I'm combat as well as his big skill.
Fair enough, but he is going to get hit often early in the match.
Yeah probably
Fair enough but you haven't seen the argument I made on why he wouldn't be able to dodge easily, so I
i'll wait for your response. Note: Asta's accelerated development applies to his swordsmanship abilities too.
I'll also wait for your response
Asta has better flight mobility with his demon slayer and he can predict mash's movements underground. Yeah, that's a valid wincon for Mash if he can get past all of Asta's power and swordsmanship skill. I do want to know if Mr. Burnedead's held back state would make him jump tiers if he gets "less held back"
I guess it would make him less head back? And I wouldn't think Mash's flight would be limited that much, he was able to do dives in the air to preform dodge's as well as kick his legs fast enough to fly like regular wizards with brooms.
I'm cool with waiting for Life_of_king.
Thanks.
 
Yeah, that's his Bracelets. I guess he would jump tiers of he were to change it, though he did show a degree of ease when he finally threw that Giant into the air, though Life_of_king is the one who knows the scaling in fool, so eh.

Yeah

As said before, there is the Levis example, but that may be iffy.

I guess I'll check it out. But assuming it can't be used to bypass it?

Mash's predictions come from his analyzation of his enemies attacks as well as his beastly instincts, where even his own muscles warn him of danger like incoming death and the power of his opponents. Unless Asta's sense manipulation or whatever it's called can effects Mash's muscles, I don't really think it would help.

So Instinctive reactions, Asta's fighting styles incorporates instinctive reactions, its quite funny because most of the swordsmanship styles he assimilated were from swordsmen who were either half asleep (Licht's dual swordsmanship), mind elsewhere (Kiato's swordsmanship), flat out instinctively reacting half way through predicting (Yami's swordsmanship).

Okay so Mash should be able to react but Asta is also predicting him. And it seems like he can't predict Asta with his muscles and Asta also fights instinctively while predicting (Yami's swordsmanship) so Mash will find a hard time evading attacks but I believe the muscle thing will crush his muscles to somewhat reduce the damage, I doubt that's sustainable in the short run, cuz the gap I guess. 5 hits should take Mash out rather than 1 or 2.

Yeah, I'm not saying Mash is a dodge god, at least I think I haven't, but again, Mash's adaptation to attacks is quite fast, as he's able to overcome attacks by seeing them previously once.

Oh I know, I meant the sense manipulation will **** up his adaptation and even when adapting he takes a blow or two first right? Asta can also adapt to situations after a try or two. In another match I sent someone Pre-time skip Asta's adaptation to things that were deemed impossible to deal with. Asta was protecting crystals from being destroyed by fireball attacks. These fireball attacks were very fast, too small to hit and it could even bypass Asta's predictions. So Asta adapted to it after 2 tries and he could block a barrage of them while talking to someone else too but its after the last panel in the imgur

You also have Asta surpassing his limits here and there.

Eh, how long can Asta fight? Iirc, Mash can fight for a months straight against 100 opponents that were much stronger than him to the point where he had no choice to adapt and grow stronger to overcome them.

No I didn't mean stamina, I meant that if the fight lasts for about 3-5 min then Asta can pick up a lot of skills from Mash

Anyway, 100 opponents were much stronger than him? Elaborate.

I'd say they could be even in this regard then, and it would mainly come down to stamina. I do think that Mash's stamina + ability to tank attacks + density manipulation could help him survive an onslaught of attacks for a while.

Yeah, which is why I find this match to be much more even then the last fights, where Mash and Asta pasta basically even, and Mash only stomping because of his skills.

So like a supernatural willpower thing,

Mash had speed amps, i think that's why i conceded, where are they? I shouldn't have tho, Asta has his own reactive power level thing.

Which Mash could sense, due to his uncanny ability to sense the power of his opponents as well as imminent guess. Sorry if I'm starting to sound like a broken record.
Well he's only allowed to take off the bracelets in dire situations due to his promise to his adoptive pops. I could have allowed Mash to take off his brace let's and use his full potential, but I don't think I can
Ah, I swear you've read it? Anyways, yeah, Asta has a pot of advantages, my main point is Mash's ability to last I'm combat as well as his big skill.
Yeah probably
I'll also wait for your response
I guess it would make him less head back? And I wouldn't think Mash's flight would be limited that much, he was able to do dives in the air to preform dodge's as well as kick his legs fast enough to fly like regular wizards with brooms.

Mash could sense Asta if hes just standing there but not when Asta begins to fight.

Mash does have skill but he needs a way to get past Asta's ability based swordsmanship skills.

I guess Mash's flight is fine
 
Yeah



I guess I'll check it out. But assuming it can't be used to bypass it?
Up to how you see it, considering even I don't fully understand how it would work in a match like this.
So Instinctive reactions, Asta's fighting styles incorporates instinctive reactions, its quite funny because most of the swordsmanship styles he assimilated were from swordsmen who were either half asleep (Licht's dual swordsmanship), mind elsewhere (Kiato's swordsmanship), flat out instinctively reacting half way through predicting (Yami's swordsmanship).
It does sound funny. I do agree on that.
Okay so Mash should be able to react but Asta is also predicting him. And it seems like he can't predict Asta with his muscles and Asta also fights instinctively while predicting (Yami's swordsmanship) so Mash will find a hard time evading attacks but I believe the muscle thing will crush his muscles to somewhat reduce the damage, I doubt that's sustainable in the short run, cuz the gap I guess. 5 hits should take Mash out rather than 1 or 2.
Maybe, though I don't think they would hinder him much, at least the damage from it. Mash is a beast at taking pain.
Oh I know, I meant the sense manipulation will **** up his adaptation and even when adapting he takes a blow or two first right?
I guess so, but considering Mash's tolerance to pain, he should be able to continue fifighting ike normal even if it were a blow or two, which at that point he'd probably have already adapted.
Asta can also adapt to situations after a try or two. In another match I sent someone Pre-time skip Asta's adaptation to things that were deemed impossible to deal with. Asta was protecting crystals from being destroyed by fireball attacks. These fireball attacks were very fast, too small to hit and it could even bypass Asta's predictions. So Asta adapted to it after 2 tries and he could block a barrage of them while talking to someone else too but its after the last panel in the imgur

You also have Asta surpassing his limits here and there.
Holy shit this is eerily similar, scarily similar even.
No I didn't mean stamina, I meant that if the fight lasts for about 3-5 min then Asta can pick up a lot of skills from Mash
Ah, I understand now.
Anyway, 100 opponents were much stronger than him? Elaborate.
Basically, Mash had put up against armored knights one at a time. Problem is, these magic knights were stated to be so far above Mash, that he had to adapt and grow in power to beat them. Not only that, he had to face 100 in total. However, impressively, he overcame 10 of these armor knights in just 4 days. I don't know what the match would be to establish a concrete timeframe, but it's still impressive, I think.
So like a supernatural willpower thing,
I guess it can be considered that.
Mash had speed amps, i think that's why i conceded, where are they? I shouldn't have tho, Asta has his own reactive power level thing.
Oh right, Mash has speed amps. I almost forgot that. So basically, Big Bang Dash is where Mash gets into a running start position before running so fast it overcomes his opponents perceptions. It's consistent with outspending his opponent's perception, as it worked against Lance, Abyss, and Domina. However, he can't access his crazy busted Punch², so that can be thrown out. I would also guess that Balista Knuckle, Hurricane Rush and any other offensive Muscle "Magic" would act as a power amp as well.
Mash could sense Asta if hes just standing there but not when Asta begins to fight.
That's fair.
Mash does have skill but he needs a way to get past Asta's ability based swordsmanship skills.
Also fair.
I guess Mash's flight is fine
 
Bumping, and I actually reread a few battles. Mash actually does dodge dual bladed weapons at one point, and has dodged the rapid clawing of a magical beast, who was using both of their claws. I should send their chapter links, as well as that previous example of Mash dodging another sword user.

Mash vs Kaldo - https://read.mashle.online/manga/mashle-chapter-57/
Mash vs Cell War - https://read.mashle.online/manga/mashle-chapter-67/
Mash vs 008 - Only important panel
img
 
Well in that case

given the fact that Asta can throw Mashle’s senses off with his moves while also predicting Mash’s own movements by reading his Life Energy allowing him to adapt to Mashle easily. Asta should be able to end the match quickly with few attacks due to his AP advantage.

So voting Asta for these reasons.
 
Well in that case

given the fact that Asta can throw Mashle’s senses off with his moves while also predicting Mash’s own movements by reading his Life Energy allowing him to adapt to Mashle easily. Asta should be able to end the match quickly with few attacks due to his AP advantage.

So voting Asta for these reasons.
Counted, though I think you voted incon at first, so this may be a vote change

Edit: nope, an entirely new vote. Man this thread has taken a lot out of my memory....
 
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