• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Marvel CRT: 2-A Cosmic Cube & Tier 1 Realities

Status
Not open for further replies.
I heavily disagree with Well-Fed Galactus and anyone who scales to him (which translates to "a crapton of people") being High 1-B.

A once-in-a-blue-moon feat from a disconnected storyline shouldn't be taken as consistent evidence. This is the same guy who consistently fights entities with Tier 2 feats and whose best explicit showing without any scaling is being claimed capable of destroying multiple universes.
 
Also, regarding the Infinity and Oblivion M-Body feat, it is extremely important to note that not all M-Bodies are equal to each other. Quasar's statement implies that it was a random average M-Body, but he is no reliable source in the matter and is established as incapable of comprehending the Abstracts's motives several times. He merely correctly guesses that the Infinity he met must have been a M-Body, but has no business knowing how powerful that specific M-Body was in comparison to any others.
 
@Seed

My main hangups are still the same. I don't think universal abstracts should have the same tiering as their Multiversal selves, based on a single showing, and I believe the three-way battle to be a 2-A feat rather than High 1-B.
 
Bump. I don't necessarily disagree with you all. I believe all of you have good rebuttals. But:

  • I can agree on it being perceived as 2A, but I also am unsure about that really because it was intended to exceed the original Chaos War... So it could be also High 1B. It's why I mentioned the possibly High 1B.
  • The other comic supporting it was yes Fantastic Four Vol 3. I want to say it is between issues 30 to 50. The point isn't that DeMatteis made Thor Chaos War. The point was that it was mentioned in a canon comic years after the storylines [Fallen Stars] end, meaning it still relates to the cosmology in some shape or another.
I'm more so now trying to argue for a new key for Franklin as of Abraxas War + Beyond since it's apparent his powers was near their peak during those versions. He also gets far stronger over time so it isn't contradictory, as Nathaniel mentioned he grew a lot in power and so did Uatu, to the point he was called a threat to the Multiverse when prior he was only a threat to 616.

After his first encounter with the Celestials he was called far beyond them and capable of easily beating them. Even Doom regarded that as of absorbing a small portion of his powers during the aftermath of Heroes Reborn, and Heroes Reborn wasnt even canonically over a month long. Then called a threat to Multiversal Eternity and affecting him with the energy released to revive Galactus. Then called a " God capable of affecting the Multiverse " alongside Molecule Man and manipulate it's superstructure, and likely helped with the creation of Eternity due to both Owen and Frank being involved with creating the Multiverse, so he was being compare to Owen as being at least on a somewhat relative level. Doesn't that imply a vast increase in power ? That's at least 3 portrayals of High 1B levels only when his powers was nearing their peak.

This proposal doesn't really affect anyone else or really affect the scaling whatsoever of cosmics considering Galactus' power as of being revived doesn't scale to himself normally, besides Lifebringer. The Celestials perhaps if you are willing to make a key for it being the new retcon of their power. Also dialogue stated in Hickman's Run stated outright he was nearing Multi-Eternity's level , which is consistent with another statement that Hickman made [about the Galactus revived by him and Valeria being relative to Lifebringer in level of oower... It wasn't Well Fed Galactus... My mistake xD]. so this is not contradict as it is referring to the Franklin after the Mad Celestials incident.
 
Here's a little something that could go along with the universal abstracts being 2-A, Dormammu was going to trigger another creation event and rebirth everything in all the universes by detonating Eternity's heart.
09870DC0-0D6B-4C5C-B55E-2FBBD4063EA6
 
Well, in practice Dormammu only recreated a single universe. DeMatteis himself apparently confirmed this when a fan asked him about it according to a scan that I was shown.
 
@Seed

Personally I don't think a separate High 1-B key for Franklin at his "max power" is warranted.

  • His adult self is logically greater than his strongest child self, and his adult self doesn't have any High 1-B stuff going for him beyond a vague superstructure statement.
  • A new key is just a headcanonish way of getting around the inconsistency surrounding his power level, and that's ignoring the fact that some of your statements aren't High 1-B at all.
  • Uatu simply called Franklin a threat to reality or existence if I remember correctly. That statement needs to be stretched like taffy to get it to High 1-B.
For similar reasons, the Celestials shouldn't get another key. There's no retcon of their power level, and the only reason they'd be upgraded is if Galactus or Franklin is upgraded.
 
Doing some searching, I've found that the Cosmic Cubes have quite a few 2-A showings that could scale to the universal abstracts and those on their level like Dormammu. https://m.imgur.com/a/n00c8 - A Cosmic Cube was causing multiverses to topple. https://m.imgur.com/a/Mz0pD - The above damage is then reversed by a Cube. https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/104794/2034988-post_mm_vs_b.jpeg - CC Molecule Man and CC Beyonder produced a trans-multiversal clash. https://i.imgur.com/roQSA1G.jpg - The Super-Adaptoid believed fighting Kubik would affect all existence. https://i.imgur.com/5BXTmCp.jpg - And he again says all existence would be affected, clarifying that their clash would spread into "infinite dimensions and adjacent universes."
 
That's not headcanon though ? It was directly stated his powers get far stronger over time and would explain the power jump if anything... But I get that this is apparently not enough. Okay then... Going to change gears as it's painfully obvious I am going to need more time to get evidence for Tier 1... So I'm going to strategically postpone that for now.

How much is there to suggest them being 2A at least ?
 
Just a note that we generally try to not scale from crossovers, including the one with X-O Manowar cited above. They tend to be filled with outliers and unreliable scaling between different franchises.
 
@Tracer

The first couple scans are from a crossover that I believe was a videogame tie-in.

@Seed

I said -ish because I wasn't using it completely literally. Since Adult Franklin isn't going to High 1-B, it would be extremely odd to have a separate "max power" High 1-B key for his child self, when that key would logically be weaker than his adult self.

Personally I'm fine with certain characters going to 2-A. I don't know if others are though.
 
I am uncertain about 2-A, by scaling from a well-fed regular Galactus, but if the other staff members here think that it is a good idea, I won't stand in their way.
 
Ah, my bad. Disregarding those, there's still the other stuff where 2-A scaling could come from the Cosmic Cubes as well as/instead of Galactus
 
I'm aware just a typo I didn't notice. How you spell retco corretly is completely not important right now. so what is your thoughts on the ss matt posted?
 
The level of 2A isn't baseline BTW in case anyone was wondering... It'd easily be amongst the most complex and highest levels of 2A we have on site. Actually a lot of the feats I posted and know of were at least 2A, so I can definitely prove 2A for others if need be... I'm much more confident proving that right now than tier 1.
 
Uhh Tetro it was agreed to be High 1-B in this thread by Prince .. Just wasn't agreed to be consistent enough to be a part of the cosmology and used to scale to the appropriate people (for now).... Unless you can prove it is consistent enough to use then by all means. I know when to retreat because I don't have enough info to prove it (for now), but I will be searching in the meantime.
 
Anyways can blatantly support 2-A Universal Abstracts , IG , or those who scale because all the feats (apart from the Heroes Reborn Portal thing) I have in my records that have either been used here can be interpreted as 2-A at their worst... So I'm more than willing to debate for that unless it's pretty unanimous .
 
The Tetromino King said:
So what is your thoughts on the ss matt posted?
Click to expand...
I think that some metafictional commentary about the Marvel stories being comicbooks does not seem like a reliable feat to scale to 2-A from. A well-fed Galactus helping to almost destroy all universes seems more useful in that respect.
 
Antvasima said:
The Tetromino King said:
So what is your thoughts on the ss matt posted?
Click to expand...
I think that some metafictional commentary about the Marvel stories being comicbooks does not seem like a reliable feat to scale to 2-A from. A well-fed Galactus helping to almost destroy all universes seems more useful in that respect.
Click to expand...
Well if you ignore that and look at the other scans that confirms the soul world is a multiverse?
 
That is more reliable at least, although it contradicts the original Infinity Gauntlet story, in which the Soul Gem only contained a universe.
 
Going back to 2-A abstracts for a sec, there's some extra justification here where CC Molecule Man explicitly says Eternity is his superior, and as noted earlier, CC Molecule Man could cause a trans-multiversal clash with CC Beyonder.
9888FF73-61AD-426E-9150-A18BF993387A
 
Well, his clash with the Beyonder sent tremors across many universes, but I do not think that it destroyed them. It may be more of a range feat.
 
Personally I'm not againts a High 1-B Infinity Gauntlet since it still has stuff like that one feat of itself holding its ground againts God Emperor Doom for a bit but I'm ok with either 2-A or High 2-A. I'm more inclinced of giving it a variable tier since a lot of Infinity Gauntlets in the Marvel cosmology don't necessarily all have the same power level and gem number requirements. I'm more inclined on a At least 2-A or High 2-A, possibly High 1-B kind of tier for it since its definitely a Varies kind of tier Item.
 
While the range of the feat is likely greater than its AP, wouldn't Beyonder and Molecule Man exerting so much energy that they cause quakes and rumbling on a transmultiversal scale still qualify as 2-A AP? It's already noted on Molecule Man's profile as possibly 2-A, and what they're doing would still require infinite fourth-dimensional power.
 
We tend to keep AP and range separate. They are not automatically comparable within fiction.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Infinity Mage 1-A Cosmology
Replies
7
Views
2K
Pedonar
Pedonar
Eseseso
1-A Upgrade for the Astral Plane and the Abstracts (Marvel Comics)
2
Replies
59
Views
6K
ActuallySpaceMan42
ActuallySpaceMan42
Minos_the_Judge
Marvel Speed Scaling of Earth-616 and Earth-1610
Replies
13
Views
2K
sanicspood
sanicspood
ProfectusInfinity
  • Locked
Minor Franklin Richards Revision
Replies
9
Views
1K
Planck69
Planck69
ObberGobb
Marvel: Big Yggdrasil Downgrade, Skyfather Upgrades, and Thor Revisions
2 3 4
Replies
120
Views
10K
AndrewBennet
AndrewBennet
Back
Top