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Marvel CRT: 2-A Cosmic Cube & Tier 1 Realities

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In this case though I think causing effects on that scale lends support to Kubik's statement about infinite universes getting destroyed should he and his equal fight for real.
 
Possibly, but I think that the Kubik/Adaptoid statement seems like later contradicted unreliable hyperbole in terms of scale.
 
Would it really be hyperbole when on top of the Beyonder/Molecule Man thing, a Cosmic Cube was able to defeat Doctor Doom with the power of Galactus, and Galactus has his own 2-A feat?
 
That's one way to look at it, but if I can be devil's advocate it does also match up with the 2-A feat performed in the three-way fight discussed above. Five Cubes beat Eternity and a single one beat many Celestials.

Several threads of nothing happening is enough tbh. We should either definitively reject 2-A top tiers or we should implement changes based on the support from multiple staff and knowledgeable members in the previous thread. As it is, things are just stuck in limbo.
 
POTM makes good points.

I suppose that 2-A upgrades seem reasonable then.
 
Presumably, Galactus, the Celestials, the Cosmic Cubes, Franklin Richards, and the universal abstract entities.
 
And the other beings that scale to them, like Abraxas, Dormammu, Mephisto (in his realm), Agamotto, etc.
 
Abraxas, yes. I am not so sure about the others.
 
Mephisto stalemated Well Fed Galactus, Dormammu would scale above Classic Doctor Strange with his artifacts and spells (who would also have to be 2-A due to him being scaled to The In-Betweener, Eternity and The Infinity Gauntlet) and he has challenged Eternity. He also scales above Agamotto, who would be 2-A for stalemating Well Fed Galactus.
 
Oh, they weren't? Well, never mind Mephisto and Agamotto then.
 
Maybe Mephisto stalemating Galactus and Strange fighting the In-Betweener would have to be seen as outliers? 2-A intuitively seems too high for them.
 
I think that Galactus was likely well fed when fighting Scrier, but do not remember if it was ever stated outright.
 
Antvasima said:
Maybe Mephisto stalemating Galactus and Strange fighting the In-Betweener would have to be seen as outliers? 2-A intuitively seems too high for them.
Click to expand...
Well it was Mephisto is his realm not normally.
 
And Classic Strange still has his feats of channeling Master Order and Lord Chaos, uniting with Eternity and briefly matching the Infinity Gauntlet. He's got a few 2-A showings already on his profile. Also, I'd like to note that Galactus' fight against Agamotto is noted as a feat for him while he's Well Fed, so that'd have to be changed if he was only Moderately Fed against Agamotto.
 
Alright so I just came back from reading the story where the 2-A Galactus feat is and it wasn't stated anywhere to be full-fed. Though the very next issue Galactus wanted to feast on a planet, so either his small clash depleted him a bit or he wasn't well-fed to begin with. Also I found a galaxy level feat for Silver Surfer.
 
Huesito88 said:
Alright so I just came back from reading the story where the 2-A Galactus feat is and it wasn't stated anywhere to be full-fed. Though the very next issue Galactus wanted to feast on a planet, so either his small clash depleted him a bit or he wasn't well-fed to begin with. Also I found a galaxy level feat for Silver Surfer.
Click to expand...
the feat is when the surfers power gets stolen by a doombot isnt it
 
Nope, more of a statement from Surfer.

Edit I just read all 9 appearances from Scrier and found that statement there lol.
 
I believe Mephisto can scale to 2-A if it's just his "within his realm" ... Because he only has a few showings of power but he has at least 2 statements comparing him to a Cosmic Cube inside his realm , Kubik fearing the Hell Lords and Adam Warlock comparing him to the power output of one. Both incidents were inside his dimension so it'd only be scalable to that at best.


Also I believe for the Scrier feat he was either moderately-fed or well-fed.
 
He was likely drained from using his full power against so powerful opponents. It would be inconsistent for him to be hungry and then demonstrate that scale of power.
 
It was a small clash and they stopped before all of existence got destroyed so I honestly don't know. If we assume it's Wel-fed for no reason that would imply Galactus gets drained quickly in Wel-fed state in a small clash that was stopped before they could really get going and destroy everything.
 
On the other hand, Galactus is always hungry to a degree, even when he has eaten, and the confrontation likely lasted for an extended period of time.
 
This is kind of nitpicky, but I wouldn't call it a "small clash" considering it was one of, if not the biggest, levels of power we've ever seen Galactus output.
 
 
The Magus making an unproven statement in a comic of uncertain canonicity is not very reliable though.
 
The story was framed as Kamala witnessing actual history, so I believe it's fine to use as further support for Kubik's statement.
 
Well, the Magus used an unsupported claim, so it seems better to use the other references.
 
"

  • There is potential for a massive scaling nightmare where far too many characters can be easily scaled to High 1-B despite never being depicted that way."

    Nobody said we have to scale them to characters who have never appeared in the Dematteis cosmology, there really shouldn't be a problem if they have consistently shown to be ATLEAST 2A, There are also feats like Nexus Beyonder being a threat to every single MULTIVERSE in marvel, Then he was later revealed to be the goblin queen, who got stomped by scott summers, who franklin scales above by default due to his dozen "most powerful mutant of all time" statements.

    "
  • The entire dream cosmology seems to contradict the currently accepted history of the multiverse (First Firmament and successive Multi-Eternities), although this is not necessarily a hard contradiction."

    Lol? It literally contradicts nothing, both cosmolgies talk about God's love, and other shit about the cosmology, as you said its not a hard contradiction and it doesn't really mean much, just because a current retcon changese it doesnt invalidate any feats.

    "Well-fed Galactus threatening creation along with the two others seems like a big outlier since this key was attained by just consuming a few more planets than normal"

    Reinhard became 1A by consuming some souls, multiple mutants and shit in marvel have 4D hax even though they were born from 3D beings and other illogical stuff like that, it really means nothing and trying to apply logic like that to marvel achieves nothing.

    "
  • Universal Abstracts being High 1-B seems outlierish in general, as that is what their Multiversal selves are rated."

    I agree with this, and the other franklin point you admitted to being a simple assumption so it holds nothing for me for now.
 
By "extending into infinite dimensions", he means parallel realities. That's why he mentions them in the next sentence.
 
Kepekley is most likely correct.
 
I think I've amassed a list of all the characters that should be upgraded to 2-A, along with reasoning for their update.


At least 2-C -> 2-A

Abraxas - Scales above Well Fed Galactus and killed all versions of Galactus throughout the multiverse

Post-Retcon Beyonder (First Key) - Has half the power of a Cosmic Cube

Post-Retcon Beyonder (Second Key) - Stranger than his first key, has the full power of a Cosmic Cube

Celestials - Equal to the Mad Celestials

Death (First Key) - More powerful than the strongest Celestials, should scale above Well Fed Galactus and should scale above Cosmic Cubes

Edifice Rex - Feared by Lord Chaos, Master Order, The In-Betweener, Infinity and Galactus

Eternity (First Key) - Superior to the strongest Celestials, Cosmic Cubes and Well Fed Galactus

Galactus (Third Key) - Was going to destroy all universes in his clash with Scrier and The Other

The In-Betweener (First Key) - Stalemated Well Fed Galactus Infinity (First Key) - Equals Eternity

Lord Chaos (First Key) - Stronger than The Celestials, should scale to the likes of Eternity, and scale above Well Fed Galactus

Kobik - Is a Cosmic Cube

Mad Celestials - Would have eventually defeated Adult Franklin Richards

Master Order (First Key) - Equals Lord Chaos

Molecule Man (Second Key) - Equal to Cosmic Cube Beyonder and caused a trans-multiversal clash with him

Phoenix Force (First Key) - Should scale to other universal abstracts

Protege (Second Key) - Had the power of Post-Retcon Beyonder

The Stranger - Occassionally portrayed as having power relative to the abstracts (Should probably be changed to "At least 2-C, likely 2-A")

Thanos (Second Key) - Has full control over a Cosmic Cube

Thanos (Third Key) - Defeated several universal abstracts and Celestials, the Soul Stone alone contains a multiverse inside it

Dormammu - Should scale above Classic Doctor Strange's artifacts and spells, scales above Nightmare, is scaled to Eternity, defeated Slorioth, who threatens Eternity by simply existing

SHuman-Gorath (Second Key) - Scales above Dormammu and Slorioth

Zom (First Key) - Scales above Classic Doctor Strange and Dormammu

Doctor Doom (Third Key) - Has the power of Galactus and a Cosmic Cube

Franklin Richards (First Key) - The Celestials consider him a threat

Franklin Richards (Second Key) - Stronger than his first key, scales above Well Fed Galactus, killed a Mad Celestial

Marquis of Death - Could control several abstracts at once

Apocalypse (Second Key) - Stated to rival a Celestial

Jean Grey (Third Key) - Has the full power of the universal Phoenix Force

Cosmic Cubes - Kubik and his equal (Super-Adaptoid) could have destroyed infinite dimensions and adjacent universes by fighting, used to defeat Doctor Doom with Galactus' power, a Cube was used to imprison several Celestials, five Cubes could keep Eternity catatonic

The Infinity Gauntlet - Same as Thanos' third key


2-C -> 2-A

Uatu - The Watchers are scaled to The Celestials (Should be changed to 2-C, possibly 2-A)

Classic Doctor Strange - His 2-C tiering is scaled to Lord Chaos, Master Order, The In-Betweener, Eternity, SHuman-Gorath and The Infinity Gauntlet)


Questionable 2-C -> 2-A

Nightmare - Put Eternity to sleep by channeling 1/3 of the world's dreams


Feel free to tell me any characters I missed, or if you think there's any characters that maybe shouldn't be here.
 
That's why it was originally posted by Tracer though? Since it's a statement about 2-A levels of power, not High 1-B.
 
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