Marvel Cosmology Revision

[Supreme_of_Universe]

There are some questions of Marvel cosmology tier, so I offer to look at some interesting statements

The Seventh Cosmos
The Marvel Multiverse has bee shown to contain infinite Higher-Dimensions many times


The Seventh Cosmos exist in place that transcends all levels of reality .

As we can remember

1-A | Outerverse level: Characters who can significantly affect, create and/or destroy realms or states that fully transcend infinitely-layered hierarchies and/or dimensional levels on a conceptual or existential level, normally being portrayed as completely external abstractions that lie outside of the applications of spatiotemporal dimensionality as a constant defined by physics on any level, even in relation to infinite or uncountably infinite dimensions, usually by perceiving them as akin to fiction or something similarly insignificant.

Living Tribunal
Seventh Cosmos is a merging Eternity and Infinity , as well as Eight Cosmos .

Living Tribunal transcends them both via hierarchy

Stated again in Marvel History (2019)

So LT transcends Seventh Cosmos, though Eight Cosmos made LT his inner functio .

And what about Oblivion?

In Strange Tales (1951)/Issue-158 was stated, that LT judge over realms of existence and nonexistence. It mean that he transcends dualities. 1-A tier feat.


All the dimensions - each nebulous netherworld which exists either in time or space - either as matter, or as fathomless void - such were given over into eternal, deathless keeping of ... The Living Tribunal!

So, If TLT really transcends dualities, this statement makes sense. The LTL of Seventh Cosmos transcends them both: SC and Oblivion.

Beyonder
Publication date of Strange Tales: June 1951 - November 1976

Publication date of Secret Wars 2: July 1985 - March 1986

So TLT already had his 1-A powers during SW2.

That makes PRB million times above baseline.

Conclusion
Seventh Cosmos : 1-A

The Living Tribunal : 1-A

PRB : 1-A

I hope my vision makes sense.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

None of these statements are remotely 1A.

 

[Supreme_of_Universe]

Isn't completely transcending Infinite dimensions enough for 1-A?

 

[Eganergo]

Nah, that is low 1A afaik.

 

[Supreme_of_Universe]

1-A | Characters who can significantly affect, create and/or destroy realms or states that fully transcend infinitely-layered hierarchies and/or dimensional levels on a conceptual or existential level, normally being portrayed as completely external abstractions that lie outside of the applications of spatiotemporal dimensionality as a constant defined by physics on any level, even in relation to infinite or uncountably infinite dimensions, usually by perceiving them as akin to fiction or something similarly insignificant.


Bruh, how it works? It stated in Tier page, but most of members ignore it

 

[Eganergo]

Low 1-A | Low Outerverse level:

Alternatively, this tier can also be assigned to characters who transcend High 1-B structures when no further context regarding the nature or such transcendence is given.

 

[Supreme_of_Universe]

Alright, what about transcending dualities?

 

[Eganergo]

Alright, what about transcending dualities?

Transduality.

You need to prove the character/verse itself 1A to be considered type 3 and 4.

 

[Supreme_of_Universe]

Oblivion page should be enough for there types.

 

[Antvasima]

The 8th Multiverse Eternity is 1-A, but the Living Tribunal was stated to be an inner function for him, and is only superior to the universal fractions of Eternity.

The Beyonder was retconned into a cosmic cube by Tom DeFalco in 1988 or 1989. We can not scale him from anything revealed after that happened.

 

[Antvasima]

Never mind. It seems like you took this into account. I will check again.

 

[Antvasima]

Just because the 7th multiverse Eternity exists in "The Mystery" as Al Ewing calls it, this does not automatically scale to it, but Kepekley23 is better suited to evaluate that. It seems like the two versions of Multi-Eternity have been placed in different tiers due to causing scaling problems with other characters otherwise.

Anyway, it was not stated that the LT transcends the concept of nonexistence, just that he rules over all the empty "dimensions" as well as the ones filled with matter.

The LT was also never compared with the multiversal Eternity until the 8th cosmos came into existence.

 

[Supreme_of_Universe]

Bruh, I have proved that Eternity and Infinity combined make 7th Cosmos

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it was created the the power of the Molecule Man, so I do not think that it is that simple. But again, Kepekley23 is better suited for handling this.

 

[Supreme_of_Universe]

I linked him

 

[Supreme_of_Universe]

Anyway, it was not stated that the LT transcends the concept of nonexistence, just that he rules over all the empty "dimensions" as well as the ones filled with matter.

It was stated that He keeps them both, so it's not matter for him what duality he need to guard.

Also it isn't just empty space, It is exactly nonexistance - fathomless void

 

[Antvasima]

Thanks.

Fathomless void is not automatically the same as nonexistence, just empty vacuum.

 

[Supreme_of_Universe]

IMO It is Exactly nonexistence, bcs TLT compared it as opposite to matter

 

[Antvasima]

He compared it as the absence of matter, as far as I could tell.

 

[Supreme_of_Universe]

All in all, If we compare this feat with handbooks and Marvel History 2019 - then TLT judge over Existance and Nonexistance - Eternity and Oblivion

 

[Antvasima]

Oblivion was not invented back then. He was introduced in 1985 I think.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, you should ask some of the following members to comment here:

Zensum, C2 of Omego, Eficiente, Qawsedf234, PrinceOfTheMorning, Sandman31, SuperAPM, Zark2099, ClassicNESfa, Firestorm808, Elizio33, FanofRPGs, Kepekley23

 

[Supreme_of_Universe]

Oblivion was not invented back then. He was introduced in 1985 I think.

He always existed. All in all Handbook and Marvel history accept his transcending over non existence (Oblivion)


I have already asked Kepekley, so I will link ClassicNESfa

 

[Antvasima]

It doesn't work like that. A character doesn't exist until it is introduced.

Anyway, feel free to ask more of them. I do not have enough free time to argue.

 

[Supreme_of_Universe]

Okay, I will

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah I'm against 1-A LT and PRB. As for the 7th/8th Cosmos, Eternity already has a 1-A key for that.

 

[Supreme_of_Universe]

Duh, TLT transcends 7th Cosmos, I have already proved it

 

[Supreme_of_Universe]

Also we can't ignore so many statements about TLT being higher Oblivion

 

[Antvasima]

The LT is higher than Oblivion's universal shadows within the multiverse, not the void that transcends the multiverse altogether.

 

[Supreme_of_Universe]

Infinity have matched Oblivion in his own realm. It was stated that their battle was in the highest plane of reality. Plus there is a statement that LT rules over a realms of nonexistence.

Also check Marvel History, where Oblivion was described as Abstraction (no manifestation) - pillar of reality (one of four). And LT stands above him

 

[Antvasima]

The highest plane of reality within the multiverse. Oblivion transcends the multiverse in its entirety.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, again, I do not have the time to argue about this. Nothing will change unless you convince the others anyway.

 

[Antvasima]

Here are people that you can ask to help out here:

Sera EX, Matthew Schroeder, Zensum, C2 of Omego, Eficiente, Qawsedf234, PrinceOfTheMorning, Sandman31, SuperAPM, Zark2099, ClassicNESfa, Firestorm808, Elizio33, FanofRPGs, Ultima Reality, Kepekley23.

 

[Supreme_of_Universe]

Bruh

 

[Qawsedf234]

To summarize Ant's points, there's two Oblivins. One inside the Multiverse that acts as an abstract force benethe the Living Tribunal, and a greater Obilvion that the 1st-8th multiverses reside in. The LT is above the multiversal Oblivion, not the void outside of the multiverse that even the Living Tribunal is bound to.

 

[Antvasima]

That is how I have understood things as well.

 

[Abraxas_Prime]

i think living tribunal is not bound to one multiverse, he has authority over other multiverses as well. he must be a transdimensional being for sure.
he exists in all layers of reality in different forms as well as outside them.

 

[Antvasima]

He is bound to the overreaching/greater Marvel multiverse, as established by later stories.

A greater multiverse can also contain many less far-reaching smaller multiverses within it.

 

[Abraxas_Prime]

This guy al ewing and secret wars writer hickman, also most of the current marvel writers completely messed up marvel cosmology. such a pain in the ass when we try to make sense of everything. There is no coordination with the writers. And they keep slaughtering all powerful characters in shitty storylines just for a hype and no reason. Too bad.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose so.