Marvel Comics - Thor Shaking the Realms of the World Tree

[Marvel_Champion_07]

But what's exactly going on with the "3-C, 2-C at peak" stuff?

I hope that we will not entirely get rid of the variable tiers, given that it would likely create a scaling mess.

It's just this stuff that he mentioned earlier

Rethinking things through, I don't agree with the average Herald being "3-C normally, 2-C at peak". They don't have a mechanic where they go from one tier to another by putting more effort into it. If they are already not holding back, most context they're in should already make them be at their peak, be it a life-or-death battle, saving a lot of people, being angry, or being stated to go all out. What context would make them jump from 3-C to 2-C mid-battle? Nothing that wasn't already there, and if they were fighting another 3-C how are they not annihilating with this tier jump they have but the opponent doesn't?

It's worded wrong. "3-C, likely/possibly 2-C" or "3-C to 2-C" makes far more sense as it means 2 average Heralds fighting w/o holing back are at the same tier (3-C or 2-C), w/o any 1 of them or both being able to jump into yet another tier mid-fight.

Now, Thor does jump into another tier via enough effort, but that's his own personnel thing and most of the time he does similar efforts and doesn't jump his tier in any context (like going up against other Heralds w/o holding back).

 

[LordTracer]

I hope that we will not entirely get rid of the variable tiers, given that it would likely create a scaling mess.

They’re not variable tiers though.

 

[Antvasima]

It's just this stuff that he mentioned earlier

Okay. I suppose that seems rather reasonable.

They’re not variable tiers though.

Well, we do not present them as such, but the real reason is because the writers all have different opinions about the character power leves, and also often contradict themselves a lot due to plot conventions.

 

[Eficiente]

So, I'm sure that it should be "3-C, possibly 2-C" given the relatively few higher feats and the notable amount of anti-feats for them.

Does anyone want to defend it being"3-C, likely 2-C"? The reply for that would be listing a number of the anti-feats, particularly the ones that have relevance for the plots of their stories.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Well, we do not present them as such, but the real reason is because the writers all have different opinions about the character power leves, and also often contradict themselves a lot due to plot conventions.

Aka they're varies, but we don't want to admit they are. Bluntly put Ant, I don't care if one writer writes Thor at 10-B or 1-A, ya find the most consistent power level within context, 3-C, with what's backing it up, is perfectly fine. But we aren't about to let one writer drop a character's scaling because reasons cough cough THANOS cough cough

 

[Eficiente]

Depends on what you mean, if I was talking to a random person outside the wiki I would say they vary in power. Indexing profiles with standards, you can always determine what tier they are and others always scale to them. Inconsistencies from writers to writers are called outliers, which can be feats too high for them just as much as they can be feats too low for them.

This is of course ignoring characters' inner reasons or mechanics to "vary", which aren't inconsistencies at all.

 

[Excellence616]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

So what do we currently need to do here?

 

[Eficiente]

I'm waiting confirmation to add everything by waiting a few days to see if anyone has anything to say.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, but what changes do you intend to make more specifically?

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody write a list of all the members who have helped out in this thread previously, so I can call for them, please?

 

[Excellence616]

Can somebody write a list of all the members who have helped out in this thread previously, so I can call for them, please?

@Greatsage13th @Stefano4444 @Ehnkr2beboh @Newendigo @MarvelFanatic119 @Maverick_Zero_X @Hasty12345 @KingTempest @Aachintya31 @ObberGobb @Lightning_XXI @Vasco @Eseseso @Shmeatywerbenmanjenson @Eficiente @LordTracer @MARVEL_Future_Fight_Gamer @NaturalDestroyer @Hellbeast @DaReaperMan

 

[Eseseso]

@Greatsage13th @Stefano4444 @Ehnkr2beboh @Newendigo @MarvelFanatic119 @Maverick_Zero_X @Hasty12345 @KingTempest @Aachintya31 @ObberGobb @Lightning_XXI @Vasco @Eseseso @Shmeatywerbenmanjenson @Eficiente @LordTracer @MARVEL_Future_Fight_Gamer @NaturalDestroyer @Hellbeast @DaReaperMan

I mean, Efi's 5-B stuff is pretty good, so asides from discussing how to reorganize Doom's 2-C stuff I don't know what else still needs to be discussed.

However, I'm not crazy about keeping the 3-C end, but if the majority agree with it I won't make a fuss.

 

[Antvasima]

@Greatsage13th @Stefano4444 @Ehnkr2beboh @Newendigo @MarvelFanatic119 @Maverick_Zero_X @Hasty12345 @KingTempest @Aachintya31 @ObberGobb @Lightning_XXI @Vasco @Shmeatywerbenmanjenson @Eficiente @LordTracer @MARVEL_Future_Fight_Gamer @NaturalDestroyer @Hellbeast @DaReaperMan

Would you be willing to help us get our remaining discussions and revisions here properly structured and organised please?

 

[KingTempest]

Definitely scales to the construct as a whole, which'd be 2-C

Affecting a 2-C construct would be 2-C

 

[Antvasima]

Definitely scales to the construct as a whole, which'd be 2-C

Affecting a 2-C construct would be 2-C

Which part of our discussion here are you referring to?

It would be helpful if somebody writes an up to date explanation post regarding what we currently need to do and decide here.

 

[KingTempest]

Referencing the OP.
Is there a specific message you need a view on? Or can a member quote what needs to be evaluated, preferably the main points?

 

[LordTracer]

I’m still not in favor of giving Thor, Surfer, Hercules and BRB a “5-B while holding back” rating, let alone scaling other characters to 5-B for fighting them.

 

[Antvasima]

Referencing the OP.
Is there a specific message you need a view on? Or can a member quote what needs to be evaluated, preferably the main points?

Well, I have lost track of what we currently need to evaluate here myself, so I would greatly appreciate if other active participants here can help us get this very important discussion and ongoing revision organised again.

I’m still not in favor of giving Thor, Surfer, Hercules and BRB a “5-B while holding back” rating, let alone scaling other characters to 5-B for fighting them.

I thought that we agreed to add that they can hold back to a 5-B level in their footnote sections. In fact, I am quite sure that I personally adjusted them in the Silver Surfer, Hercules, Beta Ray Bill, and Thor pages.

 

[Stefano4444]

I’m still not in favor of giving Thor, Surfer, Hercules and BRB a “5-B while holding back” rating, let alone scaling other characters to 5-B for fighting them.

Actually i'm pretty sure it was agree that all of them will lose their 5-B and they will only be 3-C normally and 2-C at peak.

Current 5-B characters such as The Thing will no longer scale that high, via what Ant just say before.

Hulk and The Sentry will be the only expections due of how their power fluctuations.

 

[Stefano4444]

It's worded wrong. "3-C, likely/possibly 2-C" or "3-C to 2-C" makes far more sense as it means 2 average Heralds fighting w/o holing back are at the same tier (3-C or 2-C), w/o any 1 of them or both being able to jump into yet another tier mid-fight.

Yeah 3-C, possibly/likely 2-C would be more correct.

 

[Antvasima]

Eh? I am pretty sure that The Thing, Wonder Man, and similarly powerful characters will remain at tier 5-B, not go lower, but we need to decide which feats that we should scale them from.

Didn't The Thing endure a blast from Galactus that was stated to be capable of destroying a planet, which we have an accepted calculation blog for, for example?

 

[Gasper]

Can i ask why the thing isn't on the same level as hulk? They fought multiple times in comics.

 

[Antvasima]

Because the Hulk has an extremely variable power level, and The Thing's absolute peak feats only reach tier 5-B at best, whereas the Hulk literally reaches infinity in that regard.

 

[Stefano4444]

Didn't The Thing endure a blast from Galactus that could destroy a planet which we have a calculation blog for, for example?

Yeah, he did.

We have also Grey Hulk (who isn't as strong as Savage/Green Hulk, so the Thing and Wonder Man scaling to him can still work) who destroyed a giant planet size asteroid.

 

[LordTracer]

I thought that we agreed to add that they can hold back to a 5-B level in their footnote sections. In fact, I am quite sure that I personally adjusted them in the Silver Surfer, Hercules, Beta Ray Bill, and Thor pages.

Efi wanted to put the rating back in their attack potency, and that’s what I’m disagreeing with.

Current 5-B characters such as The Thing will no longer scale that high, via what Ant just say before.

Eh? I am pretty sure that The Thing, Wonder Man, and similarly powerful characters will still be tier 5-B, but we need to decide which feats that we should scale them from.

They would just scale to Grey Hulk like they already do…?

 

[Antvasima]

Yeah, he did.

We have also Grey Hulk (who isn't as strong as Savage/Green Hulk, so the Thing and Wonder Man scaling to him can still work) who destroyed a giant planet size asteroid.

Yes, and the Grey Hulk was weaker than The Thing when not extremely enraged.

 

[Antvasima]

Efi wanted to put the rating back in their attack potency, and that’s what I’m disagreeing with.

Okay.

They would just scale to Grey Hulk like they already do…?

That seems fine to me.

I think that The Forgotten One also has a tier 5-B feat btw.

 

[Gasper]

Because the Hulk has an extremely variable power level, and The Thing's absolute peak feats only reach tier 5-B at best, whereas the Hulk literally reaches infinity in that regard.

I see

 

[Gasper]

Also, i seen people saying the thing killed celestial and m body eternity, never seen that before though.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, i seen people saying the thing killed celestial and m body eternity, never seen that before though.

Huh? I don't remember those feats.

 

[Hellbeast]

I’m still not in favor of giving Thor, Surfer, Hercules and BRB a “5-B while holding back” rating, let alone scaling other characters to 5-B for fighting them.

Agreed
Make a note of it and move on; the Heralds are basically varies files at this point despite not having grounds for one beyond “muh inconsistency”

 

[Gasper]

Huh? I don't remember those feats.

I found the image on YouTube, it could be fake though.

 

[Excellence616]

I found the image on YouTube, it could be fake though.

Can you post the link?

 

[Antvasima]

@Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @Sandman31 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @Ehnkr2beboh @Elizio33 @LordTracer @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame @Gasper @Maverick_Zero_X @Lightning_XXI @Deagonx @Vasco @Eseseso @MARVEL_Future_Fight_Gamer @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Tllmbrg @CrimsonStarFallen @Dark-Carioca @ObberGobb

I would greatly appreciate help with getting our Marvel Comics tiers 5-B, 3-C, and 2-C revision organised and completely applied. Thank you.

 

[Antvasima]

We likely also need to remove the Silver Surfer's scaling from the Uni-Lord storyline:

https://vsbattles.com/threads/the-revenant-marvel-comics-discussion-thread.120870/post-5267209

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

We likely also need to remove the Silver Surfer's scaling from the Uni-Lord storyline:

https://vsbattles.com/threads/the-revenant-marvel-comics-discussion-thread.120870/post-5267209

Sure thing, I guess. His page needs to be unlocked, though

Silver Surfer (Marvel Comics)

To save their planet's peaceful existence at the hands of Galactus, the Devourer of Worlds, Norrin Radd was forced to agree Galactus' condition, that Norrin will serve him for all eternity. Given a fraction of the Power Cosmic, Norrin was transformed into the Silver Surfer, the Herald of...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. I have done so.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Thank you. I have done so.

I have made the edits

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. I have locked the page in question.